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America gets suckier and suckier everyday! :mad2:
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America gets suckier and suckier everyday! :mad2:
XD I think I just pissed myself.
...Wow..
What a little brat. They should have filed charges. :)
Charged with failing to cooperate in counting jellybeans. Id sue the little thug for everything shes worth.
*shakes head* Now that she HAS been cuffed for something so minor, no doubt she will become a bad kid.
I don't think it's such a bad thing.
The child was unruly, and needed to be restrained. That's not to say I don't think they shouldn't have tried something else, be it carrying her out or what not, but being handcuffed isn't exactly a traumatizing experience. At least, I would assume not.
However, the fact that the mother was angry about it is what gets to me. This lady needs to discipline her child. There's not reason for a child, even at age 5, to act like that. We've all been that old, we've all had fits and so forth, but it comes down to basic parenting, and if her child isn't going to act decent, then my personal opinion is that she shouldn't act like it's someone else's fault.
As for filing charges, that's a bit far.
Picture from the scene of the arrest:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...4209328433.jpg
Video
I saw it yesterday. I laughed so hard I needed to lay down afterward to prevent myself passing out.
God! You're such a drama queen! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
Oh stop it, you big silly billy!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Haha lol... :lol:
It would have been better if she tried to pull on of the cops guns out and then they had to shoot her in the leg or something.
I still have mixed feeling's... I mean, by god she's only five.
cuffing her or calling the police in the first place was unnecessary. The teachers were not going to be overpowered by a five year old girl and the only person neccessary to call was her mother. Even the police more than twice her size held her to the table as they cuffed her from the back. She didnt even resist. She just started crying. And what did they do then? Take her down town for questioning. Know that Ive stopped laughing I think its sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Mother obviously isn't going to do anything...so why bother?Quote:
Originally Posted by Destai
Teachers are not going to be over powered but I wouldn't want to restrain her and risk law suit.
This isn't the first time this has happened and from what I have read the officer who initiated the arrest already warned the mother that this is what would happen if an incident happened again.
I watched that video, and the police guy said her mother told him to put the handcuffs on her? :confused: I agree with the rest of you though, she's only five...
She needed to be restrained and the teachers couldn't do anything without a lawsuit being immanent. Call the cops ftw.Quote:
Originally Posted by noname
~the kindergartner attacked a teacher and the assistant principal~
~kicking at officers as they walked her out of the school~
~continued kicking one officer in the arms and legs~
They pretty much had to cuff her (They used rubber cuffs!)
Well,.... that's what this world is coming too. People get mad when the school shuts down for a day and their day care closes. People rely to much on teachers now, because they expect them to raise their kids while their at work.
Depends, if she broke school property then i guess it is a threat. It was necessary to call the police, anything the teachers could have done to stop her might be called that the teachers were at fault for harrassing the child. So most logical and safe method was to call police. However being on the news....i dont see how this warrants being on the news.
Uh, I think the parents should stop worrying about whether their daughter is getting restrained by police and start learning how to discipline her.Quote:
Another teacher was called to help, but the girl kicked her in the shins, hit her in the arm, and tried to scratch her, the report says. She calmed down after 25 minutes, the report says, but once she was in Di Benedetto's office, she started throwing things again and struck Di Benedetto three times, in the arms and stomach. Then police were called.
Absolutely ridiculous. Not what happened as a consequence of her actions, but that a child would act in such a manner. I agree, her parents need to learn how to take care of and discipline their child.
That's pretty sad. The mother/parents need to discipline her.
Perhaps her parents are divorced and she is unhappy...?
Either way, she really must be disciplined. I hope that she isn't attacking other students, because then she shouldn't be allowed at school until she learns not to be so violent.
Lol this is sad and funny at the same time. That mother needs to discipline her shes only 5 yeah but this is unacceptable behavior from a 5 year old. Kicking, scratching, resisiting arrest, assualting an officer, assualting a teacher, assualting students, punching, destruction of property DAMN this kids has some problems. This kid has a pretty bad future coming up unless her mother (and hopefully father) sit down talk to her and if this happens again ummm you know beat it in her I guess probably not. Yet neverthless the kid needs to start learning right from wrong and MANNERS geez I bet this kid needs a month of Barney to learn this. This is funny and sad.
Black Mage, Tasteypies, and ed, I agree with all of you. The school/police did what was right, this girl and her mother both need to get some sense smacked into 'em.
That kid needs some discipline. SERIOUS DISCIPLINE.
I just think it's funny that it's gotten to such a point that the school can't keep one five year old under control and need police aide. xD
In a pathetic, sickening way of course.
I'm glad they didnt file charges on her.Man to have a criminal record when you won't be able to remember what you did to get it in the first place.That was dumb .
What were they supposed to do? Let her kick, beat, and punch everyone around her? Not only would that cause harm to other people, she could potentially harm herself. They did the right thing. I'm sure the police werent looking forward to doing it, but that's what you get in a world where parents wont take responsibility for disciplining their children in any way, shape, or form.
I know the police were doing what they had to do dude.I'm just saying it would've been wrong to give her a criminal record.
Brat.
lol the thing about it is that For oyu guys to be saying this little girl has a problem then every single child has a problem as they have a history of doing this.If you think she has a problem .My little bro when he was 3 sent a kid into the hospital.The kid had all his bones broken and somehow his stomach found its way into his chest and well yeah the kid survived.My bro's mom(my stepmom)was pissed gave my lil bro the beating of his life.Ever since that day he's been pretty nice.
So this little girl just needs a beating lol.
Exactly. But I think it's pretty pathetic when everyone gets sued for anything and everything that a couple of school officials couldn't restrain a 5 year old on their own call the mom, and have it dealt with like that - no, they had to get police to cuff a 5 year old. I mean jeez. It's going to get to the point where they're calling cops to drag bratty kids out of the classrooms who won't get up and go outside when it's time to because it's illegal to leave them unsupervised and such.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
I agree that the right thing was done here. I am in no way blaming the cops or the school. I'm blaming her parents, and all the parents who want the world to raise their kid for them and blame all their parental defficientcies on schools and the like, so that it's gotten to such a point that a teacher can't demand a child listen without getting a threatening phonecall.
Pfft. People are idiots. That girl and her mama need spankings like hardcore.
Then why did you say 'That was dumb'? That implies you were commenting on something that happened, and as no charges were placed, it's logical to assume you were talking about the incident.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordblazer
Thats what happens when people get taken to jail, or detained, they get handcuffed. Thats all there is to it. A 5 year old girl is a person also.
... How the hell did a three year old kid do that? o_oQuote:
Originally Posted by lordblazer
becuase it shouldnt have gotten so out of control that they had to call the police in the first place dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
no clue but it happened i remember when he was three this kid was a mean bastard man i came home from atlanta with my face thorn up in stitches i tell you!!!!!!....Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
Please don't double post. -- foa
Well if you dont specific that in your post 'dude', dont get upset when someont doesnt manage to figure that out by reading between the lines or whatever it was I was supposed to do.
What do you propose should have been done to keep it from getting that far out of hand? The teachers arent allowed to do very much at the risk of a lawsuit. They basically have to let the kid do whatever, and if it gets bad, call the parents. If they parents wont do anything, then the police have to be called, and even the police have a very limited number of things they can do to avoid a lawsuit.
The parent giving that child a beating dude didnt you read the top post of this page.....I'm done i guess tonight isQuote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
TheAbominatrix attacks lordblazer night. lol.
The parent didnt give the child a beating. Did you read the article, dude?
Get over yourself, really. I'm responding to things you've said. I'm not attacking you. By your logic I can say you're attacking me by responding to what I say. Sheesh.
dammit dude you saidQuote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
"what do you thik what should've been done"
then i said
"the parent beating the child"
i shoul've said
"the parent beating the child should've prevented this"
By your logic I can say you're attacking me by responding to what I say.
Yes, that would have made it easier for me to understand what you're saying. And though I dont agree with you, at least I can understand what you meant.
Alright dudes, stop attacking each other by responding to what each other say!
(Wait...The Abominatrix is a dude?)
Anyway, the common concensus in this thread seems to be that if the parents disciplined their child, this situation would never have come up, and the school and police responded accordingly. If the child had been raised properly, she wouldn't have acted in such manner. So I again point to the idea that the kid and the mom both need a good smackin'.
:p no.Quote:
(Wait...The Abominatrix is a dude?)
Im usually the one who disagrees with the police in situations like these. However, there really wasn't much else they could do. I mean seriously, should they just have let her kick people and whatnot? I think the police were justified in this instance.
Ya know, Im not sure anymore xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
Anyway, I do agree with a smacking, though certainly not the beating lordblazer suggested.
Hey, check it out Sasquatch, we agree with eachother!
Thought so. It's just that all the "dude" comments got me confused...Quote:
Originally Posted by nik0tine
The Abominatrix and nik0tine BOTH agree with me? At the same time? I need a drink. ;)
Another question is, what will happen to the mother and child when this is over? Will the mother assume any responsibility in disciplining the child? Or will the child grow and mature (physically) only to end up as more and more of a problem, with more contempt for lawful authority? Can law force the mother to take responsibility for raising her child correctly? This wouldn't be enough to warrant placing the child with in a foster home, but this is enough to realize that without proper discipline--which probably won't happen at home--the child's behavioral probems will only get worse. If this woman's method of "raising" her children continues as such, is it really "right" to put this child back into the same home?
Or should somebody just be hired to come around and smack the hell out of the woman every week or so until she starts fulfilling her responsibility as a parent?
We don't know the childs situation at home. (At least, I think we don't. I haven't read through the majority of this thread so forgive me if I am speaking out of ignorance.) We cannot say that "discipline" is the problem here. In fact, I don't think discipline even plays much of a factor here. I think there is a lack of love in that childs household, and that could very well be the reason as to why she is acting the way she is.
We can assume that discipline is the problem, when the mother has refused to do anything about the situation before. Short of any other evidence, I'd say it's the most likely cause. I'd definitly assume also that there's either a lack of love or simply too much permissiveness. The child could be used to getting her way when she throws tantrums.
When I read the topic title, I kinda thought it was funny, but after reading it. it's just sad, espically if the child is lacking love in the household, if the mother doesn't have time for her, she'd be better off adopted by someone else who can take care of her and maybe she won't go down the path she's already going down. A criminal record at the age of 5, that's REALLY bad.
When I was that age, my father would be gone for weeks at a time, and my stepmother wouldn't give a damn either way unless we did something wrong (mostly at school, and with me, mostly not doing my homework), in which case, she'd wake me up when she got home, beat the hell out of me, then tell my dad when he got home--even if it was two weeks away--and he would beat the hell out of me too. I don't think children act unruly because there's a "lack of love", it's because they don't respect their parents, or authorities of any figure. There are two ways for parents to get respect--showing their children "love", and disciplining their children and demanding respect. I would say that showing their children love and disciplining them coincide (because really, do you love your child if you raise 'em up to be an asshole?), but I wouldn't agree that a lack of love is the problem and not a lack of discipline.Quote:
Originally Posted by nik0tine
That's true, but the state will not take a child in anything but an extreme case. I'd recommend some forced counciling for the family, and some monitoring of the home environment. You're right though, the kid is heading down a nasty path.
My parnets wern't around that much, still aren't, they got divorced when I was 5, I hate authory, but I don't act like this. I've only be suspended twice, once for refusing to do something a teacher wanted me to because I didn't think it was fair, and another for face painting. I didn't bring harm to any one though, and I think it's stupid to do so just because you have probelms. Though she is only 5, I don't think self-control is being taught and it needs to be.
One of the many reasons I never intend to have kids. I was always worried about them taking too much of my wife's love away from me. Now I gotta worry about them kicking my ass too? Man... (/sarcasm)
My parents have always cared about me, and I was almost never hit. I can think of no more than five times (I know there were more, but not many) where I was actually hit by my parents. (Or anyone for that matter) I don't act like that, and neither does my sister. I am not rude, and I seldom give anybody problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
You said parents gain respect by either showing thier children love, and by and disciplining their children and demanding respect. I know I am going a tad off topic here but I would like to give my opinion on this statement. First of all, those who demand respect do not deserve it from anyone. Not from thier children, not from thier peers. No one. Secondly, is it really respect when it is beat into you? I most certainly don't think so. It's fear. Is it right to keep children at bay by keeping them afraid of getting beat? Sure, they will stop acting up, but the reason why doesn't seem justified to me. You can keep children from being complete morons without a whole lot of physical discipline. I am living proof of that.
Also, 'respecting authority' is not something that children need to be tought. They should be tought to respect those who are respect worthy. I respect my parents because they deserve it, not becuase they have authority over me. Someone who abuses thier authority deserves no respect. Period. Teaching kids to "respect authority" is, at the same time, teaching them to submit to authority. While I agree, people should not be rebelling just because they dislike authority, a society of submissive people are bad. When people don't know when to tell 'the boss' "NO!" it leaves room for bad things to happen.
I am not necesarily opposed to corporal punishment, I am opposed to it's use in an unintelligent and unnecessary manner, and unfortunately, most parents arent smart when it comes to disciplining thier kids.
Discipline does not mean physical discipline. It means setting boundries and sticking to them. Discipline can be anything from grounding a child to a spanking.
I dont see how a five year old can learn, or be taught, to 'respect those who deserve it'. She's five. She needs to learn to respect her teachers and the police. Period.
OOC: That's ironic nik, I got the shiz beat out of me by my dad on a daily basis (alot of the time just randomly without reason) and I didn't respect anyone!
I think spanking a 5 yr old could be somewhat appropriate for a 5 year old, but I don't think that should be the immediate approach. Different things work for different kids, and if a spanking every now and then does it, then hey, that's what works. Beatings however, are inexcusable. I don't care how bad the kid has acted.
She needs to be taught some amount of common sense. Even if you hate the police, you don't kick them. Contrary to the popular belief, a five year old can and will adhere to the rules of logic.
Edit: In this particular instance, I don't think that discipline is going to do much good, because the childs mother obviously doesn't know how to raise her child. If you don't know how to raise your kid, no matter how much you hit them or ground them or spank them, nothing is going to come out of it. Discipline is a learning experience. If you can't teach your kids, you might as well just give up now.
True. Of course, not many parents try that. =/
And why is that do you think? I think it's because most parents don't have common sense themselves.Quote:
True. Of course, not many parents try that. =/
As I said, discipline does not neccesary mean spankings.
However, no matter what for discipline comes in, if it isn't done in the right way, it isn't going to make a positive difference.Quote:
As I said, discipline does not neccesary mean spankings.
I didn't have phsical discipline etheir, and I think not giving it is the best way to go. If you can raise a kid to behave without physical discipline, I think you have done very well as a parnet. My dad says he only remebers spanking me once, and I don't even remember it. This girl just needs to be noticed I think.
I had physical discipline. Until I was about that age. Then it vanished and me and my parents came to some kinda understanding somehow. I was a little heathen myself. Then suddenly became a really great kid. Dunno what exactly happened. But it should be noted, some kids just can't control themselves, or their temper. A lot of time it's either a mental disability, or a physically mental defect (something is literally wrong with their brain). Of course putting hand cuffs on a kid really isn't going to diagnose something like that. I just wanted to broach the subject. It's not always a parent's parenting at fault (or lack there of).
Oh come the hell on people. The little girl is 5 years old! When does the maddness stop. You dont put handcuffs on a 5year old. period. Handcuffs hurt. Can you imagine how tight they would have had to be on her to make them stay on. I saw the footage this morning and while it was bad, it wasnt like she's all of a sudden a hardened criminal. Now yes, the girl does need some discipline, a whole lot acually. But those police should not have put hand cuffs on that child. I dont mind the fact that they called the police, but the handcuffs was unnesasarry. I would understand if it was a junior high student, or a high school student, but this a little girl with a temper problem. And you all are making it seem like shes the worst thing ever. Please, get real. It wasnt that serious.
Im glad the mother is sueing the police. Dumb ass police putting cuffs on a little kid for no reason. Next thing you know, they will be placing assult Charges on babies for throwing milk bottles at people. All that little girl needed was a good spanking infront of the whole class like i used to get when i was her age. That would solve the problem right there.
Speaking of spankings and such. I think they are needed. I mean, sometimes you have kids that just dont listen. I mean, timeout and punishment never would have worked for me. So its on a child to child basis on how you choose to discipline them. Kids are sometimes like domestic animals. You gotta train them. If you dont, they will try you. And once they get away with it one time, they will keep doing it. Its just like, Yelling at a dog wont make it stop pissing on the rug, but try spanking it a few times and see what happens.
I'll admit I'm one of those idiots that didn't read the article. I just read this thread before responding. But someone did mention that the handcuffs were RUBBER (: They weren't metal and locked all the way down. So it's not as bad as it sounds. And I think it was likely more to scare her into behaving. If you were five... a cop on the premises didn't scare you. You felt like kicking and hitting him... I would think pinning you down and cuffing you would slap SOME sense into you.
So you propose a spanking is better? Cuffs aren't meant to cause injury, especially since they were rubber. Spanking is now portrayed as violence by the media. If they had caught THAT on tape, she'd be able to sue the school. And win so easily... The cops were at least doing their job. So it's likely she might lose the suit. And I hope she does lose. She doesn't deserve money for raising a heathen. But in the end it's really all dependant on the limits of disciplenary action by people who are NOT her parents. What exactly are they supposed to do that they're actually allowed to do?
By the way, hitting a dog might work... but you have to consider a dog doesn't have the same comprehension skills as a human. Especially if you don't catch them IN the act. If you hit them afterward, they're just gonna think you're mean and end up anxious around you, expecting that you'll just suddenly want to hit them again for no reason, because that's how they precieve it. POSITIVE reinforcement is the BEST way. Just something I picked up working with animals and all... Violence of any degree should never have to be a last resort.
They cuffed the child (with plastic ties, not real cuffs, as real ones do not fit), to prevent her hurting herself or other people. What should they have done? Lets the kid run a rampage? Let the kid hurt the teachers and the police? Being kicked around by a five year old in the middle of a tantrum hurts. I've been there. Its not pleasant. They cuffed the child for her own safety. They didnt press charges, and had no plan to.
It's not 'dumb ass' of the police to handle a situation in the way they're trained to. If any teacher or police officer would have spanked the kid, the mother would sue them six ways to Sunday. These are the way things must be handled in this country to avoid litigation.
Ah the zip-tie cuffs. Not rubber, but still hardly dangerous.
5 years old and 4'5? wtf? the average 5 year old is only around 3'2 she must have been on steroids
she must have some major form of some Attention seeking hyperactivity disorder or autism
really teachers couldnt do anything handling a child unauthorized to council can lead to fines of up to £4000 child abuse policies even smacking a child these days is classed as abuse what do you think people have to do for discipline?
they should sue her parents around 2 grand for not giving their child discipline if they did she wouldnt have attacked irresponsible parents throw them into a volcano!
i reckon these are weird and only half true
Yes Just ask her mom! That's why she's sueing!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
You see, it never fails. They had law enforcement handle it, and still someone is getting sued.
Filing a law suit doesn't atutomatically mean you'll win ^_^
It does, however, mean that the school and department will lose money paying for court costs, lawyers, etc. Just because somebody doesn't win a lawsuit doesn't mean they're not costing the opponent money.
It's a good chance she'll win. There was a case not too long ago where a pair of college girls decided to do something nice for the neighborhood as a random act of kindness and they baked cookies and left them for people. A woman sued because of the fact that the cookies surprised her. And she won. America is obsessed with frivilous lawsuits.
Were they college girls? I thought they were older teenagers, like one was 18 and one was 16 or 17? I remember at least one of 'em was an attractive girl.
But yeah, I definitely know what you mean. It's ridiculous.
I don't mean to sound racist here, but the fact that the little girl is black will probably play a large part in the court preceedings, depending on the race of the teachers and police officers. You can bet that if everybody else was white, the race card is definitely gonna be put into play.
lol. those teachers are pathetic. the kid obviously needs discipline, and the parents are to blame as well, but i mean, damn. "oh no, the little 5 year olds trying to hit me! and im a huge frickin sissy so im gonna go call the cops about it!!" even if i didnt want to hold her back to risk lawsuit id probably just start cracking up if a 5 year old tried to hit me. its not like it would hurt or anything. and when there that young, arent the teachers allowed to spank them or something?!?
Thankfully, no.Quote:
and when there that young, arent the teachers allowed to spank them or something?!?
I dunno, I dont remember the exact ages. And that race thing wouldnt surprise me, which is sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
And as for 'cracking a 5 year old', Excelsior, that's pretty pathetic.
good post! especially the last part. Don't beat your animals people. Geez.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyk
Nay-sayers, what would you have done if a 5-year-old was going hysterical, and kicking and punching you hard when you were trying to restrain her nicely? I don't see what choice they had, the girl was going berserk.
That's what I was thinking (and that's sad). =/Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
And Excelsior, they actually do have corpral punishment still in some states, but even then, you can't just grab the kid and spank them for getting out of line like a parent can...it just doesn't work that way (thank goodness).
Ok i saw this on the news this morn, i seriously think the school way over reacted. I mean how often does a 5 year old kid just act out.....EVERYDAY! A parent doesnt cuff their kids and put her in a police car. Ive seen teachers literally carry 9th grade boys away for fighting, and they cant handle a five year old girl.......pathetic.
Interesting side note: The same school recently had a child run out of the classroom, out of the school, of the grounds and get hit by a car.....they are looking for a link btw the happenings :confused:
She didnt 'just act out'. She was attacking the teachers. Its not that they couldnt physically handle her, its that they arent ALLOWED to. The way a ninth grade can be handled is NOT the same way a five year old can be handled. And, fyi, they do call the cops on older students who do such thing. They did this for the safety of the child and the teachers and to hopefully avoid litigation, which it seems they will not.
I've yet to see anyone who says this is stupid and pathetic suggest a way to handle it short of beating the child to a bloody pulp.
*cowers away from abom.
Well all im saying is parents handle their kids without calling the police. The mother asked the child not to deal with the assistant principal, and the school took no actions against it. It is still a little girl acting out, it happens, and will always continue to happen. It should be made into a a federal dispute (not that it is, but it could soon be). Child deserves punishment, but i personally think police were unneeded *nods*
All cower before me! (SPOILER)Sorry if I come off as too aggressive
Not all parents handle their kids that well, and understand that a parent has a lot more freedom in how to handle their child. While a parent could send the kid to their room and let them freak out and throw fits, a teacher could not. If the teachers in this situation were to, say, put the kid in an empty room until she calmed down, and the kid hurt herself in the process, the teachers would be at fault and would be in trouble. Teachers do not get this same freedom when handling another person's kid.
I know kids acting out happens, but this is way over the top and very overblown. Something is very wrong with her situation somewhere down the line.
The police were needed, though, because that child could easily have hurt someone else or herself, and then, again, the school would be in trouble. Calling the police in situations like that is the best thing to do, because they have more resources at their disposal, and more rights when it comes to handling other people, even children.
I still dont believe that they should have handcuff a little girl. I dont care if she was unrulely or not. i dont care if they were the plastic ties.
You know, i hate to start this with you, but im gonna anyway. If that little girl had been white, They would have never put cuffs on her. period. Now, im not saying that the cops are racists. LET ME REPEAT THIS FOR YOU SASQUATCH. IM NOT SAYING THOSE COPS WERE RACISTS. All im saying is, thats the way things work in florida. Also, im willing to bet that if they had know that all of that was being taped, i doubt they would have cuffed her as well. They know that they were wrong, and thats why they are gonna lose that case and have the police department paying out some money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
The state or city would be paying it, depending on the department and/or it's backing. But I'd like to know what exactly is supposed to be so wrong with handcuffing. It's nothing. Like there's some moral issue here? I don't see it...
No, theres nothing wrong with handcuffing. But i dont believe you should be handcuffing a young child like that. She was having a temper tantrum. And alot of people on this board are acting like they never through a fit before. But see, i dont know how many of you on here have children, but i wouldnt want my child being put in no handcuffs like that if she was 5 years old. I dont give a damn what she was doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyk
I agree handcuffs were a bit much, however i think the police were needed because the school cannot do anything without getting sued.
This was by no means an ordinary temper tantrum. She was attacking other people for an extended amount of time. It wasnt a temper tantrum.
And saying "They wouldnt have handcuffed her if she were white" is singularily the most ignorant thing I've heard on this board. "That's the way things work in Flordia" is also really dumb. And why do you say the cops would have acted differently if they'd known they were being taped? What did they do wrong from a legal standpoint? Nothing. They didnt strike the child. They didnt injure her. They restrained her, as they would anyone else who was in danger of hurting themselves.
I still have yet to see a single nay-sayer give a logical alternative. What should they have done? Let her hurt other adults? Other children? Herself? Should they have stood there and watched as she physically attacked others? I dont care if she was five. Five year olds can hurt. I've been hit by a five year old before, and it hurts. Especially when they're in the middle of a fit.
So tell me, what should they have done? Any logical conclusions? What should the teachers have done? What should the police have done?
The sad thing is, there isnt a single thing anyone could do in this situation to avoid a lawsuit. If they would have let her hurt someone or herself, they would have been sued. If they restrained her in any way, they would have been sued.
It's true, and it sucks. :mad2:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
America's favorite thing is frivilous lawsuits.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
I'd also like to add that, for any situation the police are involved in, they have to think about one thing above all else. The safety of everyone involved. What they did hurt no one, and prevented the harm of others.
I'd also like to add that I'm not suckling the proverbial teat of the police. I myself have dealt with numerous 'a-hole' cops, and I've been discriminated against by them and treated like dirt. However, I understand that 1) they're doing their jobs, and so long as they dont violate my rights I'm fine and 2) not all cops are jerks. I state this because I dont want anyone thinking that I'm sticking up for the police in this situation simply because they're the police.
As ignorant as it may sound, thats how i feel. And, no 5 year old can physically hurt an adult. I mean, waht are you, 4' 2' , 69 pounds? Unless your extreamaly small, i dont see how a 5 year old in a fit can hurt an adult.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
And Like i said, florida is just like that. Its Racist State, USA. how do i know? ive lived there. And in those small towns and cities, thats just how they treat black people. And they really would have never put a little 5 year old white girl in cuffs.
I'm 6 foot tall, 140. And try getting punched and kicked by any kid in a tantrum. It hurts. Ask any mother if their child has ever hurt them in the middle of a fit. 99% will say yes.
It doesnt matter if it's 'Racist State, USA'. You dont know those police officers. You dont know how they think or feel, so dont accuse them of racism, because that's essentially what you're doing, no matter what you play it off as. Your reasoning is ridiculous and closed-minded. It's like saying that in LA, where the LAPD has been accused and found guilty of racism before, wouldnt pull me over or harass me because I'm white. I've been to LA. No cop has treated me different. My black relatives live in LA. Not all cops give them crap. Lumping up an entire group of people because of your experiences is ridiculous.
And I'm waiting for a logical alternative. How should these cops have handled it?
We'll never know,now will we (:
Edit: that was actually aimed at Akira, but it works good in response to Abominatrix too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
ok, once again, i never said the cops were racist. here's a quote from my orginal post :
[q]Now, im not saying that the cops are racists. LET ME REPEAT THIS FOR YOU SASQUATCH. IM NOT SAYING THOSE COPS WERE RACISTS.[/q]
All ive said was that my experiences in life show that, they would not have put cuffs on a white little girl. Thats all i said. thats how i feel, and quiet frankly, you are right, therer was no way to handle it correctly but to have had the mother come up there(i know she didnt want to/"couldnt" come). I mean, when i was in kindgarden, my teacher used to spank us, but they dont do that now. people sueing in all. Thats the real sad thing about this.
But you are right, Vyk, we probably wont ever know. And for real, in a week, no one will care.
I know you said that, but your claims say otherwise. Why would the cops react like that if they werent racist? Those are racially motivated acts if they would cuff a black child, but not a white child. So if you're accusing them of refusing to cuff a white girl while cuffing a black girl, you're accusing them of being racists.
And yes, we can agree there. Originally these sorts of lawsuits were to correct injustices, but more and more often they're creating more. People cant help other people because that person might sue them. It's really gotten out of hand.
You word this as if it was a concious decision on the part of the police. I think what he is saying is that it just wouldn't have happened that way if the girl was white. I seriously doubt the cops think "She is black, and I hate blacks, so I will cuff her because I hate blacks!" There is a racial bias in each and every one of us, (well, most of us at least) including the police. It's slight in some people, and it's blatantly obvious in others. That racial bias can and will affect judgement, at least initially. The cops may not have cuffed a white girl because they can associate more with a white girl than they can a black girl.Quote:
Those are racially motivated acts if they would cuff a black child, but not a white child. So if you're accusing them of refusing to cuff a white girl while cuffing a black girl, you're accusing them of being racists.
It would be a conscious decision if they were faced with the same situation. And why is everyone assuming these cops are white? The only reason the race of this child came up in the situation is because she's black. What if this had happened to a white child. Would we be saying "They only cuffed her because she was white"?
If I recall, in the picture where the cops were cuffing the girl, the cops were white.Quote:
It would be a conscious decision if they were faced with the same situation. And why is everyone assuming these cops are white? The only reason the race of this child came up in the situation is because she's black. What if this had happened to a white child. Would we be saying "They only cuffed her because she was white"?
Also, I think there is a double standard here. If the girl was white, and they HAD cuffed her, this whole race thing would never have come up.
I'm going to go ahead and ignore the whole race issue; I don't think it's relevent.
I have studied the developement and proper treatment of children for a few years now, and I'm going to go ahead and say that putting the girl in cuffs was perfectly reasonable. It shouldn't be the first resort by any means, but children freaking out need to be restrained. Around here we use the "basket weave" retraint (hugging them from behind so their arms can't move), but in a growing number of places, teacher's aren't allowed to do that. In some places teachers can't touch kids in any way at all, when, really, there will always be kids who freak out and need to be held until they calm down.
I think all the important details are left out of that article, and the video wont load... :/
In any case, children don't do that kind of stuff just 'cause they're "bad," so there's something up with her. Personally, I think the girl getting cuffed is probably the least important part of the entire issue.
Hee, I was born and grew up in LA...and I'd laugh at anyone who told me the cops treated them wrong based upon race....but I've heard it. xDQuote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
I hate that race has been brought into this thread. I really, really do. That "they wouldn't of done it if she was white" is just silly to me. She was out of control, which is why they did it.
I live in an extremely racist area, and an extremely racist state as a whole, particularly concerning black people (ask lordblazer, he lives in Oklahoma too, and he's black), but even here the cops don't treat the black people different, so I'd have an extremely hard time believing you about Florida, because Florida, while I haven't been there, I know it's a pretty diverse state. Plus it's just wrong to say such about the police officers when you don't even know them. They're individuals, just like you and I.
Plus I'm almost certain in the video the cop said the mother told them to put them on her. Assuming that her mother is black aswell, I seriously doubt she's got a thing against little black girls, much less her own daughter.
Thank you Nik, Thats exactly what i was saying. Its a real racial biased in florida and in alot of other places as well. All i was saying is that they would have thought twice before putting cuffs on a white child thats 5 years old. Also, it doesnt really matter what the race of the child is, i was bringing that point up because i felt that i should respond to something Sasquatch said. He talked of the mother pulling the race card in court, so, i had to say something. He automatically thinks that all black people pull the race card when they go to sue somebody or go to court. Cause of course we have to be handed everything. Nobody just does stuff wrong to us.Quote:
Originally Posted by nik0tine
[q=DMKA]
Hee, I was born and grew up in LA...and I'd laugh at anyone who told me the cops treated them wrong based upon race....but I've heard it. xD
I hate that race has been brought into this thread. I really, really do. That "they wouldn't of done it if she was white" is just silly to me. She was out of control, which is why they did it.
I live in an extremely racist area, and an extremely racist state as a whole, particularly concerning black people (ask lordblazer, he lives in Oklahoma too, and he's black), but even here the cops don't treat the black people different, so I'd have an extremely hard time believing you about Florida, because Florida, while I haven't been there, I know it's a pretty diverse state. Plus it's just wrong to say such about the police officers when you don't even know them. They're individuals, just like you and I.
Plus I'm almost certain in the video the cop said the mother told them to put them on her. Assuming that her mother is black aswell, I seriously doubt she's got a thing against little black girls, much less her own daughter.
[/q]
Well, like i said before, i wasnt saying that the police were racist. Also, while Florida is diverse in some area's, mostly the big cities, The smaller cities ( Tallahhassee, etc) and even a few bigger cities (JacksonVille, which is known for its racial prejuduce) Are EXTREMLY RACIST and so are alot of the establishments. Alot of places in northern florida is like that. The diversity in that state doesnt real begin until you go towards places like Orlando or Miami or places in southern florida.
The cops there just have a biased towards minorites. Why, mostly because of how they were raised. They may not be "racist" but they just act differently towards blacks. Now, that doesnt go towards every single cop on the force. But im talking about a majority of them.
Also, i doubt that what you read was right. No mother of any race in their right mind would tell the police to handcuff her 5 year old daughter. That would be crazy to even believe that.
You know, I don't really want to start with this "everybody hates you" bullQuote:
Originally Posted by AkiraMakie
, especially in a topic that has nothing to do with how certain races are treated. It doesn't matter why they put the cuffs on her, they should have put the cuffs on her, and I'd put money on the prediction that they'll play the race card in court.
I totally agree. But for the doubtfuls I have to note that I think it'd be a lawyer motivated move more than anything. In a desperate attempt to win, which is what they always do, backhanded measures like that are sometimes necissary in their eyes. But I'll catch it all when it becomes a Law&Order episode XD (j/k)
What is the world coming to? :rolleyes2
A girl in my school did that, but she was 13. She punched 3 teachers and was going crazy. She got away with it though. Her punishment was a councillor.
"And as for 'cracking a 5 year old', Excelsior, that's pretty pathetic."
did i type wrong? my bad. i ment to say "cracking up" as in "laughing" meaning, if a little 5 year old tried to hurt me or something, id start laughing.
Ah, my mistake, and I apologize. I thought you meant like 'cracking the kid upside the head'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior
Freakin' Weirdo...