Contempory FF games: Over criticised?

Long post, probably contains spoilers, you’ve been warned

I’ve been considering a post I made in reply to the post “One of the Worst FF’s Ever!” on the FF9 forum.

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I think you missed the point of FFIX. It was supposed to be a reflection upon all of the Classical FF game (ie, 1-6) rather than a stand alone game in itself. If FFIX was lacking in a story ( I didn’t think so, but that’s obviously your opinion), it was because most of the original FF games had very vague story lines as well (except 6, which had one of the best), all the focus was put on game play and side quests. FFIX was supposed to show people that, at one time, FF games used to be good

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I’ve been reconsidering my final line on this post. Obviously, the main reason for my statement was spite (I noticed the poster was using a Tidus Avatar), but I’ve been wondering lately, is this statement at all true?

It seems that the more recent Final Fantasy game (i.e. 7+), especially FF8 and 10-2, receive much more criticism than any of the classical Final Fantasy games, but is this really because the latter is better, or is it because of something else entirely?

Consider this, FF10 vs. FF1

1. FF10 had a involved plot. FF1 had very basic one.
2. FF10 had characters with unique personalities. In FF1, the characters didn’t actually have personalities.
3. FF10 had amazing graphics. FF1, well…
4. FF10 had a unique battle system. FF1 had a very basic one.
5. FF10 had great music. FF1…

As you can see, in all of the major categories for RPG’s, FF10 easily outclasses FF1. So why, then does FF10 receive so much criticism, while FF1 remains holy ground? The simple answer, of course, is that FF1 is over a decade older than FF10, which gives it an excuse for being crap. But what I really don’t understand is when people make statements such as “FF1 is better than FF10”. Even if it is a “classic”, there are simply not enough aspects in which FF1 outclasses FF10 to make it the superior game.

Perhaps a better example can be found in FF6, dubbed by many as the “best” FF game. The strange thing is, this is actually a rather recent opinion. For many years, FF7 held the title as the greatest FF game ever. Just to prove a point, here’s a list of the top 10 sales of FF games as printed in Gamepro Magazine:

1. Final Fantasy VII
2. Final Fantasy X
3. Final Fantasy VIII
4. Final Fantasy IX
5. Final Fantasy X-2
6. Final fantasy Tactics
7. Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced
8. Final Fantasy Anthology
9. Final fantasy: Crystal Chronicles
10. Final Fantasy Chronicles

As you can see, the popularity of FF7 is reflected in its sales. Not only that, but FF7 has 4 follow-ups in progress at the moment, 3 of which are games. So what has suddenly cause people to change their minds? Ironically, it has probably been caused by the popularity of FF7 itself. Since its release, FF7 has spawned a staggering amount of utterly devoted and mindless gamers; I can almost hear the phase “SEPHIROTH RULZ” repeated over and over in my head as I write this. These fanatics have managed to over-hype the game beyond belief and quite frankly, it’s as annoying as hell. These FF7/Cloud/Sephiroth “fan boys”, as they have become known, have become generally despised by other final Fantasy gamers. Most players seem to blame the way FF games have gone mainstream for drawing in these people in the first place. This has caused them to change their opinions of FF7, they now needed to lavish their attention on some other game, one that wasn’t so “popular”.

So why choose FFVI? FFVI, or III as it was originally known in the US, had gone largely unnoticed when it was released on the Snes. There was nothing really outstanding about the game, it didn’t cause anything like the commotion 7 made. The reason it was chosen, however, is because it managed to keep all of the trademark FF ideology, yet also incorporated a decent story line. More importantly though, there was no sign of an “emotionally tortured” protagonist or a “visually appealing” antagonist. Although, what people don’t seem to realize, or blatantly ignore, is that FF6 is closer to FF7 than people think. Just like FF7, 6 incorporates a large amount of technology into the story, playing a large part in the plot, which is what most people say sets classical FF games apart from the rest. What it lacks, which was greatly improved upon in 7, is maturity. While FF7 had a theme of revenge, FF6’s theme is friendship. I’m not saying that this is a bad thing, it’s just that it takes the edge off a story that could have been really dark. Also, the few mature themes that have been incorporated into the game are dealt with half heartedly. This may be due in part to the influence of Nintendo, although I think that this company is used to often as an excuse for the fact that in the end, the Classical FF games were aimed at people younger than those who play the contemporary games. So is FF6 really the superior game, or does it simply look better now that FF7 has had its image tarnished by fanatics?

Really though, FF7 is probably the least criticised of the contemporary FF games. My thoughts now go to FFVIII. The amount of people that hate this game is simply amazing, and most of them hate it for the same key reasons. Firstly, people say that the game was too futuristic, which is one of the main reasons people seemed to dislike the contemporary FF games in the first place. What I don’t understand is why people have such a hard time dealing with the transition. The last two games before it, VI and VII, were both semi-futuristic, so was it so wrong to go all out with FFVIII? I really don’t see how it makes it any less of a fantasy, as people claim. What really annoys me though, is how people reacted to the Junctioning system. My question to you: Was it really that difficult to learn? You are given several tutorials in game that help you learn the basics, what more could you need. What’s more, it was based on the Esper and Materia system, the only difference was that you could use magic to increase your statistics. Junctioning actually managed to make magic a important aspect of the plot, for once magic was EXPLAINED. People seemed to dislike the characters in this game as well, calling them shallow and underdeveloped. Hmm, shall I make a list of 2D FF characters?
1. Everyone from FF5
2. Gau
3. Umaru
4. Gogo
5. Sabin
6. Mog
7. Cait Sith
8. Tifa
9. Vincent
10. Quina
11. Amarant

All of these characters were given far less development than any off the characters in FF8, most games tend to have their supporting characters abused to make room for the Protagonists. People complain about Rinoa a lot, why? Because she was selfish? Because she was loud? Because she was a coward? News flash: SHE WAS A SEVENTEEN YEAR OLD GIRL. Their all loud and self-centered. She was supposed to contrast with Squall, who was stoic, brave and…well still selfish but you get the picture. Finally, people thought Ultimecia was a stupid antagonist. Well, let me ask you this: was she worse than X-Death? That’s what I thought. So she appeared towards the end of the game, it’s not like that’s ever happened in an FF game before (sarcasm). Seriously though, how can anyone hate a game when every attack that you make can potentially be a Limit Break?

Of all the contemporary FF games, the way people react to FFIX confuses me the most. I don’t get it, people complain about the direction Square took with FF8, saying they liked things better the way they were. Yet when Square actually listens to the players, and makes a game based on what people liked, everyone reacts with indifference. I’m serious; there are people that don’t care that this game ever existed. It’s a crime for anyone to have not played this game; it’s the embodiment of everything great about the Final Fantasy series. To all those classic FF fans out there: You got your Medieval setting back, so why aren’t you playing this game?! Every character is developed t some extent (save Quina), all the characters have independent roles, the antagonist has some actual depth, what more could you want? Let me reiterate: Anyone who didn’t play this game should be shot.

Finally, lets look at X/X-2. Yes, o.k. Tidus and Yuna are easily the most annoying protagonists even featured in a FF game. And yes, X-2 is a waste of money, even if it did go platinum. I wish X-2 was never made, as it seems to have ruined the reputation of one of the best FF games in the series. Obviously, it has the best graphics in the series; the FMV’s are simply amazing. The story line is much more complex than people give it credit for (no one seemed to understand exactly what Sin was). Each of the characters are given a decent amount of development, more so than any other FF game to date. The technology has been limited in this game; it’s about the same as 6. The battle system is new and unique; we finally get a break from that stupid ATB system. The antagonist (it was Seymour by the way, not Sin) is developed with some though, you actually feel sorry for him towards the end. The game is riddled with Mini-games and Side-quests, and the game has more optional bosses than you can poke a stick at. So what really is so terrible about this game? You can just assume a game is crap just because it has great graphics, which is sadly how I think many people view it. Sometimes I get the feeling that players have some sort of animosity against change.

So to conclude, here is a quick summary of my opinions on each FF game (some broad categories to begin with).

FFI-IV: Just because a game was made 10 years ago doesn’t automatically make it better than all the rest. Of corse, it’s different if you played these games before all the rest, but I would say that would be a minority of “Classical FF fans”. If you’ve played FFX, don’t bother with FFI-III, the graphics make these games unbearable. IV’s still a possibility.

FFV: The job system is fun, but it doesn’t save an otherwise vanilla game.

FF6: Hey, if you actually believe 6 is the best, then that’s fine, it is a decent game. But if you’re just saying it because you feel it makes you superior to all those FF7 fans out there, what exactly are you proving?

FF7: To all you “fan-boys” out there: Seriously, curb your enthusiasm a little. I know, it’s a great game, but your annoying the hell out of the rest of us. You got your movie (which looks great by the way) so take it down a notch.

FF8: If you’re intelligent enough to understand Juctioning, then you’ll realise that this game isn’t nearly as bad as what everyone says it is. So what if it wasn’t what you expected, at least make an attempt to enjoy it.

FF9: Play the game damn it. If you don’t, your no better than all those Halo fans who don’t seem to realise what a first person shooter is (….Halo sucks).

FFX: So what if it has great graphics, great sound, a decent battle system and challenging side quests, IS THAT REALLY A BAD THING?

FFX-2: Err, well, X was good wasn’t it? Hehe…

Well that’s the end of this long and incredibly biased rant. In short, lay off the criticism of contemporary FF games, and please: once, just once I would like to see a ‘FF1 is crap post”. Just for once, someone tell it like it is.

Kickass post. seriously.

*applauds*

I get so sick of "OMG FFX SUCKS CAUSE THERE'S NO WORLD MAP AND THERE IS VOICE ACTING OMG OMG OMG!' and then "OMG FFX-2 IS GAY BECAUSE SQUARE ACTUALLY TRIED A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING WITH THE SERIES FOR ONCE! ORIGINALITY SUCKS!"...

Then you ask them how far they got and they say "omg I didn't play that crap for more than 5 minutes!"....yeah.

Awesome post. Well thought-out and wonderfully worded.

I want to post big tooooo (: First off, you're saying that the recent games are getting more criticism. It seems to me that they also get a lot more praise as well. Why? Because those are the only ones half the people are playing. Sadly very few of us actually played the Final Fantasies in order (or at least in as much order as we could since some weren't released). Or forgoeing order not many of us started with pre-32bit games. FF7 was the first for a lot of people, same with FFX. They either ignore the older games, or ignore their distaste for it, realizing they're older games and aren't meant to be just like the newer ones.

Again, on FF7's popularity. For a lot of people it was their first. And we know a lot of people equate their first (if they like it) as the best (which might also be argued for FF1 ;P) But... going back to the FFX stuff... People have the right to criticise FFX, not for doing what it does so very well. But for doing what it does... in a non-FF manner? It is perhaps a conservative view, but a lot of people felt FFX strayed too far from its roots, and therefor, too far from expectations. The Spirits Within fell victim to this mindset as well. As a stand-alone RPG FFX is one of the best. But as a FF... it's too digressed. There was a method to the FF madness set up in is previous installments that seemed slightly ignored in this game. It almost makes people feel cheated, or even lied to. :/

FF6 has always been one of my top favorites. I don't consider myself a fanatic. I've always been a niche gamer. I used to adore RPGs when the rest of the world hardly knew what those letters stood for. I'm not afraid to say I like FF7 better than 6. But I know, and always knew what 6 had going for it. But then I'm not even sure I'm in a good position to argue the case, because I'm not one of those people that chose 6 because of its convenience and lack of fanboys. I truely did enjoy the game. Before 6, the FFs I did play were just any other RPG to me. When 6 came along I was astounded, to say the least. I can't say much more, except I feel that 6 worked as a bridge between Classical and Modern. It was a keen mix of magic and technology. It's plot even revolved around the concept.

I probably look like one of those people that "simply hate newer FFs" because I didn't like 8. Not because of what was going for it. My main reason was it hit me in a time when I was falling out of video games. And Squall reminded me of everything I hated about myself at the time. I never talked, and when I did, I felt that whatever I had to say wasn't important anyway. I was alone, and I hated him for not taking advantage of everything he had around him. Friends he didn't care about, and a girl he treated like crap for half the game. I'm glad he came to his senses, but I couldn't shake the feeling of resentment he'd already instilled in me. If they had put at least a little more focus on the other characters I might have been able to shrug it off (I hated Tidus too, but at least I could take pleasure in scenes with Rikku). But what I hated about 8 in a gameplay aspect was it's requirement for magic and sidequests to be any good by the end of the game. You HAD to hunt down insane spells on far corners of the planet and junction them to your stats to get a decent rating. And for what? So you could do mildly okay in a melee attack? Honestly I realized the only thing you really need is Deffensive stats. You never need to attack because the damn game's battle system is based on ABUSING GFs to win any significant battle. I spent WAY too much time trying to find the right combination to junction to make my people decent fighters. It had nothing to do with their levels. Bottom line was there was a huge learning curve and a requirement for a lot of patience for very little results. In every other FF before it, you could ignore the extras and be fairly badass (not completely, but not bad either) by the end of the game no matter what. In 8 if you ignore this stuff, you're dust halfway through the game. When I beat the game I was done. There were things I liked (like Rinoa XD) but seriously not worth going back for and put up with that stuff again. I don't care how much more fleshed out him and her were than other FF characters before them.

To me Celes and Locke went through a lot of the same stuff. Their emotions just weren't put on display in front of the camera, but if you use your imagination, Squall and Rinoa aren't that much more fleshed out, and certainly aren't that much different.

I don't know why the newer games can't seem to appeal to me... 8 and onward have conssistently put something in to completely turn me off. I forced myself to stomach all of 9, and that was actually a pretty damn good game. But it was a chore to me. I never even bothered to finish X. I'm at the last battles. My save is like 2 years old. Haven't touched it since. Just not bothered... I just don't know. I've typed enough though. So I'm not going to analyze my feelings on recent FFs and try and find an answer XD Square isn't loosing money on me.

Edit: One more thing ;P I'll see youre "FF1 is crap" when compared to RPGs as a whole. But I never saw it as that. It was a repetitive adventure game where the repetitive parts you either love or hate. Somehow I didn't (and still don't) mind them. Don't know why. But it's no different than playing Tetris or Bomberman for a couple hours to me. But seriously, you at least have to respect FF1. If it hadn't happened, then very likely the FF games you love so much would have never been spawned (:

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Then you ask them how far they got and they say "omg I didn't play that crap for more than 5 minutes!"....yeah.

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Yeah, that is irritating. Almost all games start slow. FFIX for example. I b!tched so much for the first part of the game, but I stuck with it. And guess what? I loved it.

As for FFI (& II), they might not be as detailed as the later ones, but I think they're still fun.

Excellent post. It's because of threads like this that I prefer to have my FF discussion here, and not the RPG: Squaresoft board on Gamefaqs.

To answer your question as to why some people consider FFI a better game than FFX: My view is that gamers and critics have the perception that the bar is constantly being raised, and games have to be judged accordingly.

We're obviously going to see much higher quality games today than we have seen in the past. Hell, there's a rumor floating around that Ed Boon and Tobias created Mortal Kombat in their garage. Today it takes a team of what, a 100 people to produce a genuinely good game. The way of looking at it is yes, the quality is increasing, but the standard of what constitutes as a good game is also increasing.

I'm going to attempt an example, and it may not work as intended because it's a spur of the moment thought, but think of it this way: If you have 10 bucks pocket change, and you want to have fun on a Friday night with your friends, you'll find a way. Maybe you'll go see a movie. Do that every Friday for a month or so. Say you have 50 bucks to spend every Friday with your friends the next month, and 100 dollars to spend the month after that. At first it may seem better, but after a while, the capacity for enjoyment will level out, and you'll have already set a new standard for enjoyment without yourself even knowing it. Such is the game industry today. We're not having more fun than we did in the 8 bit days, but rather, the necessary qualities a game must possess to become the same amount of fun has increased.

You have way too much free time on your hands.

Look, EVERY FF game is heavily criticized from people within the FF community. If you look at more mainstream opinions of the series, things tend to be a lot more positive and complimentary. Many people seem to hate FFXII with a furvor unlike any I've ever witnessed, and the game hasn't even come out yet. When I read magazine reviews they tend to say things more like "amazing graphics! detailed character models! ALL NEW battle system! check out these crazy screenshots!"

I'm getting sick of the haterade. Every 5 seconds someone just HAS to chime in with...

FFI SUCKED! It had no plot or characters and the graphics suck!
FFII SUCKED! The characters were dumb and the stat system was weak!
FFIII SUCKS! It's only coming out for DS and I hate Nintendo for making kiddy games!
FFIV SUCKS! The characters are dumb, the plot is stupid and simple and there's too many random encounters!
FFV SUCKS! The characters have no personality and the plot is boring!
FFVI SUCKS! It's way too easy, the graphics are lame and the story completely falls apart when you reach WoR!
FFVII SUCKS! It made Square sell out and the graphics are horrible! The sound and music sound like they were done on a Casio!
FFVIII SUCKS! Junctioning was lame and the characters were given NOOOOO development!
FFIX SUCKS! It has kiddy graphics and the dialogue is terrible!
FFX SUCKS! The voice acting is horrible and it has blitzball!
FFX-2 SUCKS! It was only made to make more money!
FFXI SUCKS! It's online so it's not a real FF! It's just Square's way of trying to take every last penny you own!
FFXII SUCKS! They took out random encounters! Enix made Square sell out!
All these FFVII sequels SUCK! They're just milking FFVII for everything it's worth when all we wanted was a remake!
FFCC SUCKS! It's not a real FF and it has no summons! It's made for GC so it's too kiddy!

I mean, really. Doesn't anyone just play these games because they like them anymore?

well perhaps I can pull in another opinion.

I like FFI
I like FFX
but I didnt like FF VIII

now if I must give reasoning to not liking FFVIII well it isnt its "futuristic setting"
its the way it was played out in the end.
I think storylinewise FFVIII fell under, and the characters didnt appeal to me [though I loved squalls gunblade]
but meh thats just me.

FFI I guess passes the "smell test" for folks as it was made during a simpler time in video games where you didnt need fancy graphics and FMV's to get by [outside of the fact it was impossible to do at a reasonable cost, sure CGI FMV's were there like in Tron and Star trek II the wrath of khan but they were way too expensive for square and the game pack woulda been bigger then the former twin towers]
and also you must give it up for FFI, it was the first in a revolution of great games.

That reminds me of the argument that die-hard fans don't even like the games that they're fans for. Probably a "too high of expectations" thing. But really, ya gotta try them, if ya don't like them, you don't like them. If someone asks, why not list the reasons? Personally I've never made a thread stating any particular game "sucked". But when such threads appear, I subjectively point out the reasons I didn't like certain games. I try to do so with care, because I know these games did not "suck". They just did not appeal to me personally. But they appeal to a LOT of people on a personal level, and I just envy that. I don't think they're stupid or anything. I wish I COULD enjoy another FF game, or any game, the way I did in the old days. I agree with Lord Chainsaw completely. I just think my requirements for entertainment got a jump start somewhere along the way somehow, and the industry just can't fill the void for me. Maybe in the future. But I think it stems from me liking simplistic fun in complex games. Now the games are complex all the way around. FF6 was easy to get into. It had a tutorial. But did anyone ever really go for it for any other reason than to get the free items? ;P If you played any other FF you could pick up most of what 6 had to offer no problem. The plot and characters and everything else held the game up. It didn't need complex mechanics like 8. But there I go... I guess my problem is I grew up on games that focused more on fun factor than content. Its something it seems to me all game companies are starting to forget these days... In my very humble opinion anyway.

Well... that's some very impressive posts. ThroneofDravaris... you deserves a medal!!! :D

I agree about almost everything. But I actually like some of the older ones (4,5 and 6) a lot since I actually think they are funnier to replay and I simply just "like" some of the characters more than some of those in the later FFs. Less developed or not... I just like "some" of them more. And I find FFIV and FFV to have a higher replay value than most other FFs... but that may just be me... and I actually think FFVIII have the absolutely highest replay value...

But anyways... I really can't think of something good to say that hasn't already been said... so I'll just say: "Good job, guys!" :D

While I agree with you on many points, I'd like to know which one *YOU* like the bestxD

and I didn't like ff9 because it was too medieval. Go figure.

That's interesting considering it wasn't at all Medieval in appearance.

Steiner was more than enough to make it medieval.

actually, he's probably a good bit of why I don'tl ike ff9 too muchxD

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Originally Posted by rubah

While I agree with you on many points, I'd like to know which one *YOU* like the bestxD

and I didn't like ff9 because it was too medieval. Go figure.

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Ok, I guess I should come clean:

1. FF9: I think you might have actually guessed this from the post. Everything just seemed so balanced in this game.

2. FFX: The first FF game I played. Great Graphics, game play, full of emotion, great story line, the only thing that annoyed me about this game was Tidus, but only moderately.

3. FF8: As an Anime fan, I was glad to see a game with a deep and complex story line. I also loved the Limit Break system, which allowed you to add a spectacular finish almost at will.

4. FF7: Actually, like a lot of people, I was a bit disappointed by this game; because everyone made out that it was going to be the best. It’s still a great game, Sephiroth probably is the most well thought out villain in the series (not the best IMO, which goes to Kuja…), it’s just not what everyone claimed it to be.

5. FF6: Hey, there’s nothing wrong with this game, it’s probably the best Snes game I’ve ever played, and the graphics are great for it’s time. But to claim it’s the best FF game? The game has an immaturity to it that overshadows many of the games more dark moments (The poisoning of Doma, Celes’ attempted suicide). Kefka, while entertaining, only made the game harder to perceive as a “serious” FF game. Also, the lack of a main character caused the game to loose about direction halfway through.

6. FFX-2: Not as low as you would expect? Well, the story was complete nonsence, the antagonist’s motives didn’t make sense, and to top it off there was far too much sex appeal (why, I’m not sure, as most of the dialogue was aimed at a younger audience…). But in the end, it’s a non-linear RPG with great graphics and an even better battle system. Just ignore the dialogue; it ruins an otherwise fun game.

7. FFV: Hmm, a stupid antagonist, shallow characters, and a boring plot sure make this game long and tedious. But it’s still kind of fun, with the job system.

8. FFIV: I played this game for quite a while, but gave up simply because I realised I wasn’t enjoying it. There are quite a few things I hate about this game, mainly the battle system with 5 characters. I would only play it to say that I finished it, which isn’t really the correct mentality to have.

9. FFI-III: I’ve made several attempts at these games, but in the end I just give up. It’s just too hard to go back and enjoy these games after playing the contemporary games. No plot+ no characterization +no graphics= no fun. Of course, if you played these games when they were first released, then I understand why you would like them. But unless you plan on playing Dawn of Souls, I wouldn’t bother with these games. Sometimes I think people play these games just to say that they completed them, which should never be the motivation to play a game.

I won’t list the Tactics games, but they would be somewhere between FF6 and FF5.

I....*speechless* wow..... :D :cool:

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Originally Posted by Vyk

I want to post big tooooo (: First off, you're saying that the recent games are getting more criticism. It seems to me that they also get a lot more praise as well. Why? Because those are the only ones half the people are playing. Sadly very few of us actually played the Final Fantasies in order (or at least in as much order as we could since some weren't released). Or forgoeing order not many of us started with pre-32bit games. FF7 was the first for a lot of people, same with FFX. They either ignore the older games, or ignore their distaste for it, realizing they're older games and aren't meant to be just like the newer ones.

Again, on FF7's popularity. For a lot of people it was their first. And we know a lot of people equate their first (if they like it) as the best (which might also be argued for FF1 ;P) But... going back to the FFX stuff... People have the right to criticise FFX, not for doing what it does so very well. But for doing what it does... in a non-FF manner? It is perhaps a conservative view, but a lot of people felt FFX strayed too far from its roots, and therefor, too far from expectations. The Spirits Within fell victim to this mindset as well. As a stand-alone RPG FFX is one of the best. But as a FF... it's too digressed. There was a method to the FF madness set up in is previous installments that seemed slightly ignored in this game. It almost makes people feel cheated, or even lied to. :/

FF6 has always been one of my top favorites. I don't consider myself a fanatic. I've always been a niche gamer. I used to adore RPGs when the rest of the world hardly knew what those letters stood for. I'm not afraid to say I like FF7 better than 6. But I know, and always knew what 6 had going for it. But then I'm not even sure I'm in a good position to argue the case, because I'm not one of those people that chose 6 because of its convenience and lack of fanboys. I truely did enjoy the game. Before 6, the FFs I did play were just any other RPG to me. When 6 came along I was astounded, to say the least. I can't say much more, except I feel that 6 worked as a bridge between Classical and Modern. It was a keen mix of magic and technology. It's plot even revolved around the concept.

I probably look like one of those people that "simply hate newer FFs" because I didn't like 8. Not because of what was going for it. My main reason was it hit me in a time when I was falling out of video games. And Squall reminded me of everything I hated about myself at the time. I never talked, and when I did, I felt that whatever I had to say wasn't important anyway. I was alone, and I hated him for not taking advantage of everything he had around him. Friends he didn't care about, and a girl he treated like crap for half the game. I'm glad he came to his senses, but I couldn't shake the feeling of resentment he'd already instilled in me. If they had put at least a little more focus on the other characters I might have been able to shrug it off (I hated Tidus too, but at least I could take pleasure in scenes with Rikku). But what I hated about 8 in a gameplay aspect was it's requirement for magic and sidequests to be any good by the end of the game. You HAD to hunt down insane spells on far corners of the planet and junction them to your stats to get a decent rating. And for what? So you could do mildly okay in a melee attack? Honestly I realized the only thing you really need is Deffensive stats. You never need to attack because the damn game's battle system is based on ABUSING GFs to win any significant battle. I spent WAY too much time trying to find the right combination to junction to make my people decent fighters. It had nothing to do with their levels. Bottom line was there was a huge learning curve and a requirement for a lot of patience for very little results. In every other FF before it, you could ignore the extras and be fairly badass (not completely, but not bad either) by the end of the game no matter what. In 8 if you ignore this stuff, you're dust halfway through the game. When I beat the game I was done. There were things I liked (like Rinoa XD) but seriously not worth going back for and put up with that stuff again. I don't care how much more fleshed out him and her were than other FF characters before them.

To me Celes and Locke went through a lot of the same stuff. Their emotions just weren't put on display in front of the camera, but if you use your imagination, Squall and Rinoa aren't that much more fleshed out, and certainly aren't that much different.

I don't know why the newer games can't seem to appeal to me... 8 and onward have conssistently put something in to completely turn me off. I forced myself to stomach all of 9, and that was actually a pretty damn good game. But it was a chore to me. I never even bothered to finish X. I'm at the last battles. My save is like 2 years old. Haven't touched it since. Just not bothered... I just don't know. I've typed enough though. So I'm not going to analyze my feelings on recent FFs and try and find an answer XD Square isn't loosing money on me.

Edit: One more thing ;P I'll see youre "FF1 is crap" when compared to RPGs as a whole. But I never saw it as that. It was a repetitive adventure game where the repetitive parts you either love or hate. Somehow I didn't (and still don't) mind them. Don't know why. But it's no different than playing Tetris or Bomberman for a couple hours to me. But seriously, you at least have to respect FF1. If it hadn't happened, then very likely the FF games you love so much would have never been spawned (:

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I really don’t see how FFX has diverged from the other FF games. I terms of what? It was still rather medieval in terms of the technology used, it just begins in a technologically advance society. It has small amounts of Technology woven into the game, just like 6 did, which appears to be one of your favourites. It still maintains Chocobos, moogles (to a small extent), magic, summons, it has a story line closer to the original FF games than any of the other contemporary games (save FFIX, of course), so really, apart from great graphics and voice acting, why is it so vastly different from the classical FF games?

As for your point on 8, that you had to finish side quests in order to progress the story, I don’t really understand you r view either. It took a hell of a long time to learn any of the decent spells in FF6, and all of them you receive from “side quests”. In fact, most of the second half of FF6 consisted of optional quests, as you could go to the final dungeon after relocation only 4 characters! Really, has their ever been a FF game that didn’t require you to have decent items/spells by the end of the game to do well? Besides, it’s not hard to receive the best spells in FF8, you can just refine them from items. Over course, if you missed the GF’s along the way, some spells will be harder to get, but almost all of the Gf’s can be drawn from the linear bosses in the game.

As for FF1, I do respect it as the first step towards the great FF games we have today. What I don’t respect, however, is those who claim that contemporary FF games are terrible compared to the classical ones, while they blatantly ignore the fact that bny today’s standards, FF1 is a piece of crap.

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Originally Posted by DJZen

You have way too much free time on your hands.

Look, EVERY FF game is heavily criticized from people within the FF community. If you look at more mainstream opinions of the series, things tend to be a lot more positive and complimentary. Many people seem to hate FFXII with a furvor unlike any I've ever witnessed, and the game hasn't even come out yet. When I read magazine reviews they tend to say things more like "amazing graphics! detailed character models! ALL NEW battle system! check out these crazy screenshots!"

I'm getting sick of the haterade. Every 5 seconds someone just HAS to chime in with...

FFI SUCKED! It had no plot or characters and the graphics suck!
FFII SUCKED! The characters were dumb and the stat system was weak!
FFIII SUCKS! It's only coming out for DS and I hate Nintendo for making kiddy games!
FFIV SUCKS! The characters are dumb, the plot is stupid and simple and there's too many random encounters!
FFV SUCKS! The characters have no personality and the plot is boring!
FFVI SUCKS! It's way too easy, the graphics are lame and the story completely falls apart when you reach WoR!
FFVII SUCKS! It made Square sell out and the graphics are horrible! The sound and music sound like they were done on a Casio!
FFVIII SUCKS! Junctioning was lame and the characters were given NOOOOO development!
FFIX SUCKS! It has kiddy graphics and the dialogue is terrible!
FFX SUCKS! The voice acting is horrible and it has blitzball!
FFX-2 SUCKS! It was only made to make more money!
FFXI SUCKS! It's online so it's not a real FF! It's just Square's way of trying to take every last penny you own!
FFXII SUCKS! They took out random encounters! Enix made Square sell out!
All these FFVII sequels SUCK! They're just milking FFVII for everything it's worth when all we wanted was a remake!
FFCC SUCKS! It's not a real FF and it has no summons! It's made for GC so it's too kiddy!

I mean, really. Doesn't anyone just play these games because they like them anymore?

---

Err, I’m not entirely sure what your point is. You seem to agree with me, that the contemporary FF games are over criticized, that was the point of my post…

And your right, I do have too much time on my hands. That's why I still play video games when i could be doing something useful with my life...

[leeza]Do not double post. ~ Leeza[/leeza]

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

FF6: Hey, there’s nothing wrong with this game, it’s probably the best Snes game I’ve ever played, and the graphics are great for it’s time. But to claim it’s the best FF game? The game has an immaturity to it that overshadows many of the games more dark moments (The poisoning of Doma, Celes’ attempted suicide). Kefka, while entertaining, only made the game harder to perceive as a “serious” FF game. Also, the lack of a main character caused the game to loose about direction halfway through.

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I actually dissagree this time. :p

A game that's too serious all the time would just be boring. I think the seriousness and non-seriousness is perfectly balanced in FFVI. And as for the lack of a main character... I just liked the fact that almost all the characters could be considered a main character. But that's just me, I guess....

Oh, and in my opinion... graphic is probably the least important thing about games. I really don't care much at all and as long as I actually can see everything on the screen without hurting my eyes, it's good enough for me. I actually "like" the graphic style in FFIV and FFV a lot. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Ultima Shadow

Oh, and in my opinion... graphic is probably the least important thing about games. I really don't care much at all and as long as I actually can see everything on the screen without hurting my eyes, it's good enough for me. I actually "like" the graphic style in FFIV and FFV a lot. :cool:

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Yah, I agree with Ultima Shadow on this, graphics aren't that important when comparing classic and contemporary FF games.
However:
DJZen has a very good point, all the FF games have been critizised at some point. We can pretty much agree that they were all high quality and entertaining games (apart from XI). So why fight it? Sure some of the games were better but none (apart from XI) were crap!

Vyk: So what you are saying is that you disliked FFVIII because it was challenging and intellectually stimulating? That was one of the great things about 8: the fact that you needed to use something apart from your thumbs.

IMAO FF 9 was the best game with other contemporaries coming close however I do think that the classic FF games have been unfairly critizised at the same level as the contemporaries. Throne of Dravaris made a pretty pointless post: Sure the contemporaries have been critizised unfairly (apart from XI) but so has the classics.

Can't we all just love FF in peace? :)

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Originally Posted by Primus Inter Pares

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Originally Posted by Ultima Shadow

Oh, and in my opinion... graphic is probably the least important thing about games. I really don't care much at all and as long as I actually can see everything on the screen without hurting my eyes, it's good enough for me. I actually "like" the graphic style in FFIV and FFV a lot. :cool:

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Yah, I agree with Ultima Shadow on this, graphics aren't that important when comparing classic and contemporary FF games.
However:
DJZen has a very good point, all the FF games have been critizised at some point. We can pretty much agree that they were all high quality and entertaining games (apart from XI). So why fight it? Sure some of the games were better but none (apart from XI) were crap!

Vyk: So what you are saying is that you disliked FFVIII because it was challenging and intellectually stimulating? That was one of the great things about 8: the fact that you needed to use something apart from your thumbs.

IMAO FF 9 was the best game with other contemporaries coming close however I do think that the classic FF games have been unfairly critizised at the same level as the contemporaries. Throne of Dravaris made a pretty pointless post: Sure the contemporaries have been critizised unfairly (apart from XI) but so has the classics.

Can't we all just love FF in peace? :)

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Oh yes, you’re so sure that classic FF games are just as unfairly criticized as contemporary ones? Well, lets try a quick google search shall we: “FF(n) was crap”
Let’s see the results:

FF1: 2
FF2: 0
FF3: 0
FF4: 0
FF5: 0
FF6: 0
FF7: 36
FF8: 28
FF9: 14
FF10: 10

Now let’s check the roman numerals:

FFI: 0

FFII: 0

FFIII: 0

FFIV: 0

FFVI: 1

FFVII: 2

FFVIII: 11

FFIX: 16

FFX: 46

FFX-2: 21

Yes, Classical FF games are JUST as criticized as the contemporary ones all right. Even in your own post, you were insulting FFXI, what does that tell you? Yet for some reason, MY post is pointless.

As for your point on graphics, you and Ultima Shadow are right, graphics don’t make games great on their own. However, poor/old graphics really makes it hard to enjoy the earlier FF games, the transition is hard to adjust to.

EDIT: by the way, this is the message I got when I was searching for "FFIII was Crap"

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=e...+crap%22&meta=

Even google hates FFVIII!

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

EDIT: by the way, this is the message I got when I was searching for "FFIII was Crap"

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=e...+crap%22&meta=

Even google hates FFVIII!

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XD!!! That actually made me LAUGH OUT LOUD! :D

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

As for your point on graphics, you and Ultima Shadow are right, graphics don’t make games great on their own. However, poor/old graphics really makes it hard to enjoy the earlier FF games, the transition is hard to adjust to.

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By earlier, I hope you mean FFI-FFIII. FFIV is perfectly fine for me. :) But yes... of course, better graphic makes the game easier to enjoy in most cases. But I've always only seen good graphic as a "bonus". A game with good graphic looks cooler but average graphic won't make it less fun to play in any way. :cool:

Oh, well... people have different tastes though. I have a friend who refuse to play games with worse graphic than FFX. :rolleyes2

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Originally Posted by rubah

Steiner was more than enough to make it medieval.

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That's like saying Sippowitz is more than enough to make NYPD Blue a western. FFIX is more rennaisance than anything. If it were medieval we'd have more roughly hewn thatched roof cottages for Tro... Bahamut to burninate.


My point in that lengthy post is that saying "FFI SUCKS! FFX PWNZ!" is just as annoying as saying "FFX SUCKS! FFI PWNZ!" I don't like it much when people whine about how "all the new games suck!", about how Square has sold out, lost its touch, etc., but it's just as annoying when someone comes along and says "all the old games were horrible!". If you don't like it, fine, no one's forcing you to. Just remember, one man's trash is another man's treasure. That holy cow you're attempting to berate is someone's fond childhood memory.

I agree with alot of the things you said, I also have a few points to make of my own.

I think although you are right in many ways, the older FFs had less room to make mistakes as they were very basic, and were just simple and fun games.

I also think that it's unfair to say people boycott FF games for being original, although I'm sure this is true to a certain extent, just because something is original, doesn't make it good.

That last statement wasn't reffering to any particular FF, I think they are all good.

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Originally Posted by DJZen

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Originally Posted by rubah

Steiner was more than enough to make it medieval.

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That's like saying Sippowitz is more than enough to make NYPD Blue a western. FFIX is more rennaisance than anything. If it were medieval we'd have more roughly hewn thatched roof cottages for Tro... Bahamut to burninate.


My point in that lengthy post is that saying "FFI SUCKS! FFX PWNZ!" is just as annoying as saying "FFX SUCKS! FFI PWNZ!" I don't like it much when people whine about how "all the new games suck!", about how Square has sold out, lost its touch, etc., but it's just as annoying when someone comes along and says "all the old games were horrible!". If you don't like it, fine, no one's forcing you to. Just remember, one man's trash is another man's treasure. That holy cow you're attempting to berate is someone's fond childhood memory.

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And what about all those people like myself, for whom FFX was there first FF game? I have fond memories of FFX, but when someone berates this game, no one pipes up with “Hey, that games a classic! You just don’t appreciate decent games” and other elitist crap like that. The point I’m trying to make is that FF1 has many shortcomings as a game, so why should they be ignored any more than the flaws in FFX? I don’t “hate” all classical FF games, what I hate is how people always assume that anything made nowadays was pathetic compared to something made over a decade ago.

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

The point I’m trying to make is that FF1 has many shortcomings as a game, so why should they be ignored any more than the flaws in FFX?

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Well... obiviously, one of the reasons is that there's a lot more people who have played FFX than there is who have played FFI... and therefore there's also more people who notice and moan about the flaws in FFX than in FFI. :greenie: That's probably also one of the reasons that the older games get bashed more than the older ones. There's simply people who completely forgets about the very existence of the older games or just don't bother.

...And then there IS those mindless fools who just talks before they think. :)

What the topic creator doesn't seem to understand is that no matter how many catagories you "ANALIZE", it doesn't mean anything at all.

Why?

Because people have opinions. Is it so hard to believe that someone could hate FFX and dislike playing it?

Is it so hard to believe that that person also loves FF1 because it's challenging?

I mean SURE, FFX has better graphics, gameplay, etc., but even FF1 has it's own unique qualities. However hard it is for you to believe someone could prefer it, there is someone out there.

That's why FFX > FF1 can never be anything more than your opinion.

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Originally Posted by Gwelenguchenkus

Is it so hard to believe that someone could hate FFX and dislike playing it?

Is it so hard to believe that that person also loves FF1 because it's challenging?

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No, not at all.

But it IS hard to belive that people who say thing like: "OMG!!! FFX IS AWFUL!!! EVERYTHING ABOUT IT IS SO BAD!!! FF1 RULEZ AND FFX SUX SOOO MUCH!!!!111" and makes treads only to bash the game as much as possible, actually have an IQ higher than 12. :D

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

FF10 had great music. FF1…

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FFI had great music.

Quote:

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Perhaps a better example can be found in FF6, dubbed by many as the “best” FF game. The strange thing is, this is actually a rather recent opinion.

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Not at all. I remember hearing plenty of people tell me that at least as far back as 1997.

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once, just once I would like to see a ‘FF1 is crap post”.

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There are tons of people out there who think FFI is a terrible game.

Quote:

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Vyk: So what you are saying is that you disliked FFVIII because it was challenging and intellectually stimulating? That was one of the great things about 8: the fact that you needed to use something apart from your thumbs

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I guess that was my point. But I didn't really mean it in that manner. Though I do prefer mindless fun over a game of chess or something. But mental stimulation is a hard thing to grasp as a concept for entertainment. FF8 made you think at least a little, I won't deny that, and I won't say it's a bad thing. But the manner in which it did it just wasn't for me. But like I've said, I'm not here to bash games. I'm glad people love it for what it is.

Quote:

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A game that's too serious all the time would just be boring. I think the seriousness and non-seriousness is perfectly balanced in FFVI. And as for the lack of a main character... I just liked the fact that almost all the characters could be considered a main character. But that's just me, I guess....

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I completely agree with this. Not because I'm biased. This adds to the reasons I am biased in the first place. Also I think it should be noted, that with this balance came the ability for a game to be both serious and charming. I think that's what's lacking (at least for me) in the more recent games. A game should have its own personality. Before ANYTHING the game itself needs personality. That's why people like FF1. The characters didn't have personality, but the game itself did. In FFX, the characters were loaded with personality. But to me the game itself as a whole didn't have any.

Now this isn't to say that newer FFs will never have the ability to capture my interest because they focus too much on the characters, settings, plot, and music to capture a whole "more than the sum of its parts". They just haven't yet, to me. The newer FFs are (again, to me) ONLY the sum of their parts. Nothing more. It's that something that's lacking to me, and it's a pity. I just wish I knew what that something was.

I myself started with 9, then 8, then 7, x-2, x, and currently working on FF1, With each one there is something great, and I love all of them (some more than others, but love is love)...

IM excited to see what will happen with 12 because itd be great to see what new inventions they come up with. The thing I like about FF is what it delivers to the Fantasy lovers, by creating vast worlds and original creatures and powers.. thats always what ive loved about them and each one has its own specialty. I never really critisize the games, I just try to take them all in and understand what the POINT was, which is where i think most people r playing wrong.. they r playing because, its just a game...

to me, its more than a game, its a world i go to get away

Don't get me wrong I'm a big FF fan but I could see how some people hate each FF.
Each person has a different taste in video games, but they don't admit it and go with the crowd, thats why alot of people hate FF8. It was the first of its kind able to be criticized because it was different than the others, so everyone criticized it because everyone else did.
As for the people who only like their Final Fanatsy and not the others, they think they are all the same. I can't believe I am saying this but I actually could see why people think all FFs are all the same. If you really think about it in their shoes (Not really an FF fan) you can see how they think they are all the same. If you really pay attention you will notice... you pretty much keep fighting dieing and exploring until you fight the final boss.
Sometimes people don't play the game for its story (Such as X-2), they just play it cause they find a cool lookin character that acts like them, or they have the same name or something else. By the way FF1 is crap... all you have to do is just keep hitting fight and occaisonally healing, it has no story, no actual effective battle comands as its easier to just hit fight and potion, and all the bosses are the same, they have 1-2 single attacks and they all have a powerful group attack, the only excption is Chaos as he can heal himself.
FF2 is O.K.
Never played the real 3.
FF4 actually introduced the first real story.
Never played FF5.
Now here we go.. FF6 (Or as I have it FF3) This was THE best game of its time and still is... It really introduced the first Enemy with a pourpose (Kefka) Side quests. And halfway through you pretty much restart the game. It has good development skills as you learn magic through espers. Although this game does have its criticizm what game dosn't.
FF7 I have no comment as I was neutral with this game. But people like it because it was the first non flat FF, and the first really good battle system.
FF8 Never played it, but i am dieing to.
FF9 This game has graphics in the FMVs as good as FF10,s FMVs and it had a good story. I really don't see how it was connected to all the others.
FF10 I cannot give this game enough praise as it has actual voices!
FF10-2 People only played this because of FF10 and the hot chicks. (Not only my opinion)
FF11 Not really an FF.
FF12 People are criticizing this game because they don't anything about it and they don't want to say I want this like a kid, so they criticize what it dosn't have hoping to get it

In reply to ThroneofDravaris (the Topic starter)

Well said *applauds* and add a hear hear to that as well :3

Just one point I wish to make.

Tidus and Yuna were *not* annoying leads. Not in the original, japanese version anyway, where they were brilliant especially Yuna.
(In the american version my opinion wavered between like and dislike (especially where Yuna) was concerned. In the end I decided on like though. ;) )

And one opinion :p

FF X-2 --I was wary of it at first, but I like the game. So it isn't mainstraim FF, it has a nice battle system and a good story. Imho it isn't less of a FF, though I can understand why some view it so.

Sorry if I'm repeating stuff, but I'm not reading through this whole topic right now.

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Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

FF10 had great music. FF1…

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FFI had great music.

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Yeah, Final Fantasy 1 had plenty of great music. The Temple of Fiends especially was hardcore. The only flaw was that it didn't have a final boss theme.

As for the graphics, I can't think of any other game that's more charming than Final Fantasy 1, and there's enough variety to suit me (As is the case with every Final Fantasy).

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I’ve been reconsidering my final line on this post. Obviously, the main reason for my statement was spite (I noticed the poster was using a Tidus Avatar), but I’ve been wondering lately, is this statement at all true?

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Final Fantasy games have always been good. I just disagree with the notion that FF9 isn't meant to be a stand-alone game, since the random FF references sprinkled around don't really have a gigantic influence.

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So is FF6 really the superior game, or does it simply look better now that FF7 has had its image tarnished by fanatics?

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Well, Chrono Trigger is a load of overrated tripe. Guess people just decided there should be a second highly overrated SNES game. :P

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Firstly, people say that the game was too futuristic, which is one of the main reasons people seemed to dislike the contemporary FF games in the first place.

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Which is strange, as the game seemed decidedly modern, not futuristic. Sure, there might have been a couple of futuristic elements via Esthar, but the main party acts like just a bunch of typical 90's teens.

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8. Tifa

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You sure about that?

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Every character is developed t some extent (save Quina)

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So... is Amarant still 2-D? :P I completely agree that Final Fantasy 9 had one of the most well-balanced cast of characters, though. Of course, during Disks 3 and 4 (Especially 4) it does become the "Zidane and Garnet Story", which kind of sucks, as it was a lot better during Disks 1 and 2 when everyone had some importance. But, alas, that usually happens in stories... they focus more on the protagonist and deuteragonist towards the end.

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Of corse, it’s different if you played these games before all the rest, but I would say that would be a minority of “Classical FF fans”.

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I played the first three in 1999. OMG like yayz.

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FF8: If you’re intelligent enough to understand Juctioning, then you’ll realise that this game isn’t nearly as bad as what everyone says it is. So what if it wasn’t what you expected, at least make an attempt to enjoy it.

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Oh, it's a great game story and music-wise. I just wish that it would be more like a classic Final Fantasy, because the Junction system sucks even if I kind of understand it.

But actually, I kind of get irritated at people ALWAYS bashing things that are contemporary. I have the same issue with the Phantasy Star series - quite a few people prefer Phantasy Star 1 over the vastly superior Phantasy Star 4, and some of those people have to be choosing it just because "it's the original." =P

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Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

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8. Tifa

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You sure about that?

=P

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Yes, considering she was the female lead. Think of all the female protagonists since FF7 (Rinoa, Garnet, Yuna…), all of these characters were more developed than Tifa. As far as the story of FF7 is concerned, (SPOILER)she was only there to link Cloud to his past.

She was incredibly attractive though…

EDIT: Oh, I think I see the way you interpreted developed now.
LOL

P.S what the hell does yayz mean?

EDIT: I thought 'yayz' was some kind of abbreviation....

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P.S what the hell does yayz mean?

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"Yayz, a mystical beast found only in the forests of the Kikihotep tribe, and lives in a gragahawak tree."

or rather, its' just the word 'yay' with a z on the end.

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Originally Posted by Ultima Shadow

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Originally Posted by Gwelenguchenkus

Is it so hard to believe that someone could hate FFX and dislike playing it?

Is it so hard to believe that that person also loves FF1 because it's challenging?

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No, not at all.

But it IS hard to belive that people who say thing like: "OMG!!! FFX IS AWFUL!!! EVERYTHING ABOUT IT IS SO BAD!!! FF1 RULEZ AND FFX SUX SOOO MUCH!!!!111" and makes treads only to bash the game as much as possible, actually have an IQ higher than 12. :D

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You still kind of missed the point though.

People can dislike FFX and not enjoy playing it, and then ENJOY playing FF1, and would RATHER play it.

That is NOT a far-fetched idea. No matter how much 'better' you think FFX is in 'evey way possible' there is still someone who does not like the sphere grid, the plot, the characters, and it's just NOT their cup of tea Totally hates the game. Yet this sam person can sit through FF1 and enjoy it. Are they insane? Thats simply a matter of opinion.

What I've trying to say is that you can analyze a game in all of its catagories and say it totally smashes another game to pieces, but that still doesn't make it better by someone else's standards.

I mean sure, mindless bashing is always a problem, but you can't always tell a person that just 'hasn't given the game a chance' as compared to someone who 'doesn't like the game and prefers an older one'.

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

P.S what the hell does yayz mean?

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I think what you really meant to say was 'why the hell do people add a z on the end of yay?'

and to that, I would respond, I have no damn clue at all.

All of you people criticizing the older FF games: your opinions are automatically ruled invalid by the glaringly obvious fact that EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED THE BEST FINAL FANTASY EVER MADE.

Ok, now, back to point:

The older games are better, not because they are older, but because they are better. I don't particularly like all of the older ones, but they are all solid RPGs. The problem with going into 3D is the tendency to over-emphasize graphics and to over-dramaticize the plot(look at FF8).

Now, to FF9. This one really irritates me because it's supposed to be a nod towards older games. Then why isn't it in 2D? Because graphics sell. When you try to sell an RPG based on looks, it's going to anger some gamers who don't give a damn about graphics, and just want a good game. However, 3D graphics doesn't automatically mean a crappy RPG. Suikoden III is in 3D and is a fantastic RPG, easily the best on the PS2. But the graphics were not meant to sell S3.

Why is FFT the best game then? All of the effort of the game development was geared towards the plot and characters, the battle system, the magic/job system, and extras(you know - the stuff that matters), and it shows by having the best plot, battle system, and magic system out of all of the FFs. Look at some of the newer FFs, and see how much focus went into each of those categories.

FF8: over-dramaticized, corny plot, irritating characters, normal battle-system, equally irritating magic system.
FF9: wanna-be classic FF, lack of serious character development, normal battle-system, decent magic system.
I haven't beaten FF10(played about a third of it, according to a friend of mine) and X-2 just makes me sick by the mere fact of its existence, therefore I won't comment on either of those.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

All of you people criticizing the older FF games: your opinions are automatically ruled invalid by the glaringly obvious fact that EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED THE BEST FINAL FANTASY EVER MADE.

Ok, now, back to point:

The older games are better, not because they are older, but because they are better. I don't particularly like all of the older ones, but they are all solid RPGs. The problem with going into 3D is the tendency to over-emphasize graphics and to over-dramaticize the plot(look at FF8).

Now, to FF9. This one really irritates me because it's supposed to be a nod towards older games. Then why isn't it in 2D? Because graphics sell. When you try to sell an RPG based on looks, it's going to anger some gamers who don't give a damn about graphics, and just want a good game. However, 3D graphics doesn't automatically mean a crappy RPG. Suikoden III is in 3D and is a fantastic RPG, easily the best on the PS2. But the graphics were not meant to sell S3.

Why is FFT the best game then? All of the effort of the game development was geared towards the plot and characters, the battle system, the magic/job system, and extras(you know - the stuff that matters), and it shows by having the best plot, battle system, and magic system out of all of the FFs. Look at some of the newer FFs, and see how much focus went into each of those categories.

FF8: over-dramaticized, corny plot, irritating characters, normal battle-system, equally irritating magic system.
FF9: wanna-be classic FF, lack of serious character development, normal battle-system, decent magic system.
I haven't beaten FF10(played about a third of it, according to a friend of mine) and X-2 just makes me sick by the mere fact of its existence, therefore I won't comment on either of those.

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So, for ff9 they're supposed decrease the graphics just so it can be "old-skool?" Geez, if you have the technology for something better well then USE IT!!!!!!!! As for S3 mabe the graphics werent designed to sell it but they sure as hell didn't hurt it! And if FFT is your favourite ff then fine. But dont jam it down my throat as if it's a commonly known fact. As for your ff8 comments you clearly dont understand the junctioning system well enough to appreciate it. And considering the depth and complexity you mentioned in FFT you'd think that something like that would make you happy! As for your lack of comments on X or X-2 I would politely ask you to shut up for a year or so. Quit saying that the "classics" are so much better than the new ones if you're not even close to beating either of them. Oh, and one more thing about the over-dramatized story comment. They're not over dramatized you half-wit!(well, mabe a little...) I would darn well prefer an RPG that is mabe slightly over dramatized to one like FF1( not that I have anything against it) where there is very little story and it is filled up with unoriginal battles and questionable graphics. Some of the new ones may not be all that great but we can all still appreciate them I hope. If not for the reason that they're fun, moving and the closest thing to an art in gaming then just for the reason that they are ff's and we will continue to support SE because of what they are capable of.

Alrighty I have played/tried playin multiple of the ff games that I have the systems to play(basically meaning PS2 games are not valid).

In this order:

FFV
FFIV
FFVI
FFI
FFII
FFVIII
FFVII
FFT \VII and T were close to the same time.. I actually finished T first.

I actually played a couple of the other really odd ball ones.. but well I didn't like them much.. and I can't recall their names so meh.

Out of these that I have played(I really need to get IX) I prefer(in no particular order) V,VI,VII and T the best. out of these I would say I like T best then VI and VII and lastly V. VII really does give the FF games a good run.. and cause of that the best really comes down on personal preference(actually it always does but meh.)

FFT- I liked the graphics. The job system gave a lot of replayability. The story was good. The battles were slightly more challenging then most FF games(at least in the begining). Overall I would say a 9.2-10

FFVII- Alright graphics(mind I did play VIII first.. that and I have never liked polygon graphics.. I would rather have it 2d then choppy polygons.. though FFVII wasn't really choppy polygons). Excellent idea of merging the movie graphics with the game graphics. The Materia system is fun. and it has many of my favorite characters out of all FF's. Unfortunately some of the sidequests I found annoying, the game wasn't very challenging at all, etc... (btw I found monsieur weapons tough.. but I the times I tried them I never went and got alot.. not to mention I was low lvl) overall I'd give it about a 9-9.2

FFVIII- good good graphics(though I liked PE more graphic wise). I liked most of the characters.. even if they could be annoying at times, they were realistic. The Junctioning system offered limited challenges till I mastered it(took a bit longer then... lets say... the materia system). The enemies were slightly tougher then in VII(talking random encounters here) though still lacking. The story was a bit... ughh.. lets leave it wiht I have never liked Romance driven plots alot.. but it was alright. Overall I would give it a 8.8/10

FFII and FFI- never got all the way through these too.. the sound on my comp was a bit annoying and I didn't have much free time at the time.(btw my NES broke a bit before so meh... I know have to play what I have on comp). from what I have read and learned on these I woudl give them(this isn't very well informed.. obviousally) 6-7/10

FFIV- the only other one on my list that I have not completed. This game was fun throughout what I played.. seemed to have a nice plot etc... however unfortunately I think I missed something and got stuck someplace and never got back to playing... oh yes the random battles were too easy and there were too many. so over all about a 8-8.5/10

FFV-Great replayability with the job system. The characters weren't the best developed but niether were they the worst. Magic was useful to an extent. And it was just fun to play, even if the story lacked the punch of some of the newer ones. overall a 8.5/10.

FFVI- Good game. I loved how there was no main character. I loved the esper juntioning system. I loved how each character had a unique ability that at least in the begining made you weigh who you wanted in your party. True there wasn't a huge amount of development on each character.. but there was enough to keep me interested. overall I would say it places with FFT

Anyways as you all can see I like all of them to some extent. VI for me just has some sort of magic that makes me love it... even if I play V, VII and T more often.


That magic feel will differ for people but remember it is all subjective.

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Originally Posted by Gwelenguchenkus

I think what you really meant to say was 'why the hell do people add a z on the end of yay?'

and to that, I would respond, I have no damn clue at all.

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Because I just felt like sounding stupid.

And if you want to know why I felt like sounding stupid, the answer is "I just did."

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Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

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Originally Posted by Gwelenguchenkus

I think what you really meant to say was 'why the hell do people add a z on the end of yay?'

and to that, I would respond, I have no damn clue at all.

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Because I just felt like sounding stupid.

And if you want to know why I felt like sounding stupid, the answer is "I just did."

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And that is perfectly alright, and I respect that!

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

All of you people criticizing the older FF games: your opinions are automatically ruled invalid by the glaringly obvious fact that EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED THE BEST FINAL FANTASY EVER MADE.

Ok, now, back to point:

The older games are better, not because they are older, but because they are better. I don't particularly like all of the older ones, but they are all solid RPGs. The problem with going into 3D is the tendency to over-emphasize graphics and to over-dramaticize the plot(look at FF8).

Now, to FF9. This one really irritates me because it's supposed to be a nod towards older games. Then why isn't it in 2D? Because graphics sell. When you try to sell an RPG based on looks, it's going to anger some gamers who don't give a damn about graphics, and just want a good game. However, 3D graphics doesn't automatically mean a crappy RPG. Suikoden III is in 3D and is a fantastic RPG, easily the best on the PS2. But the graphics were not meant to sell S3.

Why is FFT the best game then? All of the effort of the game development was geared towards the plot and characters, the battle system, the magic/job system, and extras(you know - the stuff that matters), and it shows by having the best plot, battle system, and magic system out of all of the FFs. Look at some of the newer FFs, and see how much focus went into each of those categories.

FF8: over-dramaticized, corny plot, irritating characters, normal battle-system, equally irritating magic system.
FF9: wanna-be classic FF, lack of serious character development, normal battle-system, decent magic system.
I haven't beaten FF10(played about a third of it, according to a friend of mine) and X-2 just makes me sick by the mere fact of its existence, therefore I won't comment on either of those.

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I wasn’t going to post anything, since SquareSOFT beat me to it, but then I noticed your comment on FF9, so I’ll make this brief.

People haven’t mentioned FFT because it is not applicable to the post. This post is about the over-criticism of contemporary FF games, and the way people use classical FF games as an excuse to further damage them. FFT doesn’t really fit in as either a classical or contemporary FF game, it’s something else entirely. Some may argue that FFT wasn’t really a FF game at all; the plot was perhaps closer to something out of Dragon Lance than anything in Final Fantasy, not that I’m making any inferences on the motives behind your opinion, Raistlin.

You seem to be coming up with the same monotonous statements as everyone else that didn’t like FF8, so I won’t bother pressing my point in this area.

Hmm, so you didn’t like FF9 because it had great graphics (for it’s time)? Remember, FF9 wasn’t just a game designed to be exactly like the Classical FF games. This is the statement on the back of the FF9 Greatest Hits packaging:

“…FFIX takes the best of the old and mixes it with the best of the new.”

FF9 is supposed to be the perfect mix of classical and contemporary FF games, which IMO it is. You obviously feel that people hold graphics in too high regard, which indecently, was one of my points on why classical FF fans don’t like the new FF games, despite how petty holding this P.O.V makes them. Seriously, to hate FF9 because it had better graphics than the classical games just makes you a moron.

Damn it, why can’t people understand that just because a game has great graphics, it doesn’t mean that any less attention was played to the other aspects of the game. I can understand when people insult games like Halo, but FF9?!

You didn’t even mention FF7, and you said you’ve only played about a third of 10, so does that mean the only contemporary FF games that you’ve completed are FF9 and FF8? If so, then you might want to play a few more before you blatantly state that the Classical FF games are superior.

Hmm, I’ve ranted on more than I planned. Oh well, people shouldn’t insult FF9….

I like them all :D

well i own all the ff collection *applause*
and i love them all. I played all of then but have yet to fiish 3 my emuloatot lost my data, 8 i am lost in the castle. and 5 it is so damd hard!!
but i like them all.
i guess you grow more attached to them becuase of the references.
as you play thm inorder they become more obisoe.
X-2 wasnt bad. Square just wated to do somethibg original. Since all are sayiun bad things what are the olds of a 7 remake???
technology changes and the bar will alyas rais.
but the story will alwyas be the sane in my heart. NOn matter how better tech nology gets,

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

People haven’t mentioned FFT because it is not applicable to the post. This post is about the over-criticism of contemporary FF games, and the way people use classical FF games as an excuse to further damage them. FFT doesn’t really fit in as either a classical or contemporary FF game, it’s something else entirely. Some may argue that FFT wasn’t really a FF game at all; the plot was perhaps closer to something out of Dragon Lance than anything in Final Fantasy, not that I’m making any inferences on the motives behind your opinion, Raistlin.

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Ah, that's good - make up some irrational theory as to my obviously partial motives.
FFT was an FF game. See that "Final Fantasy" part of the title? Yes, it's very different from the others - but isn't each FF supposed to be different?
FFT was better because the plot was more in-depth and involved than any other FF, the battle system and magic system were both more in-depth and involved, and the characters and development were at least as good as any other FF out there. I'm basing my opinion on articulable logic, and you base yours on whether it "fits in" with the other FFs or not. Hmm...

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You seem to be coming up with the same monotonous statements as everyone else that didn’t like FF8, so I won’t bother pressing my point in this area.

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The same reasonings are mentioned in every argument...hmm...let's see, that leaves two possibilities:

1. FF8-haters have a secret cult where they manufacture reasons to hate the game.

2. FF8 just sucks in those areas.

Quote:

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Hmm, so you didn’t like FF9 because it had great graphics (for it’s time)? Remember, FF9 wasn’t just a game designed to be exactly like the Classical FF games. This is the statement on the back of the FF9 Greatest Hits packaging:

“…FFIX takes the best of the old and mixes it with the best of the new.”

FF9 is supposed to be the perfect mix of classical and contemporary FF games, which IMO it is. You obviously feel that people hold graphics in too high regard, which indecently, was one of my points on why classical FF fans don’t like the new FF games, despite how petty holding this P.O.V makes them. Seriously, to hate FF9 because it had better graphics than the classical games just makes you a moron.

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I was going to Warn you, but realized instead that you putting words into my mouth just made you a moron, so it was worth it. I suggest you actually read what I said before you shove your foot down your throat further.

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Damn it, why can’t people understand that just because a game has great graphics, it doesn’t mean that any less attention was played to the other aspects of the game. I can understand when people insult games like Halo, but FF9?!

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Did you completely skip the part where I said that I absolutely love Suikoden 3, including its 3D graphics(that are much better than FF8's and FF9's)? You just seem to be replying to some imaginary argument in your head rather than the things I said.

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You didn’t even mention FF7, and you said you’ve only played about a third of 10, so does that mean the only contemporary FF games that you’ve completed are FF9 and FF8? If so, then you might want to play a few more before you blatantly state that the Classical FF games are superior.

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A few more? There's only two more(well, one-and-a-half, since I've played a portion of FF10).

I didn't mention FF7 because I like it, but there's no real logic behind it - I just do. I think, if you look at how much of the focus of the gameplay went into characters, magic/battle system, and plot, FF7 falls short of FF6, and well short of FFT.
Also, if you don't consider FFT contemporary, then there's no way in hell FF7 can be.

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Hmm, I’ve ranted on more than I planned. Oh well, people shouldn’t insult FF9….

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...what? Why not? Because something you like is supposed to be held sacred by everyone else? I'm sorry I pointed out the obvious flaws of a game meant to make newcomers feel they were "old school" RPG players.

Geeez Raistlin, waita over do it.

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Now, to FF9. This one really irritates me because it's supposed to be a nod towards older games. Then why isn't it in 2D? Because graphics sell. When you try to sell an RPG based on looks, it's going to anger some gamers who don't give a damn about graphics, and just want a good game. However, 3D graphics doesn't automatically mean a crappy RPG. Suikoden III is in 3D and is a fantastic RPG, easily the best on the PS2. But the graphics were not meant to sell S3.

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I want to get this off my chest. If the graphics were meant to sell FFIX then they would have contuinued the realistic style they used in VIII, X and VII's FMV's and battles. Anyone who could apply to your writing on FFIX's graphics obviously cares way more about graphics than the average gamer. Its hypocritical. If they dont care about graphics then theyre not going to have much of an opinion on them at all. As far as I can see theyd focus on the games other aspects. FFIX was a great game and was enjoyable. Maybe you dont think this way but reading your post is going to give the impression that you dislike it for having good graphics despite decent gameplay. Im saying what me and others thought from reading your post, so maybe you should rethink your writings rather than insulting people who come to understandable conclusions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

1. FF8-haters have a secret cult where they manufacture reasons to hate the game.

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Sounds good to me!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Destai

Geeez Raistlin, waita over do it.

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...If I overdid it, what did the guy I was replying to do? Oh wait, I'm sorry, logic has no place here.

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I want to get this off my chest. If the graphics were meant to sell FFIX then they would have contuinued the realistic style they used in VIII, X and VII's FMV's and battles.

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No, because even the dumbest person would realize that that's not mean to be old school. Plus, this was still PS1-era; they couldn't use FMV graphics for anywhere near the quality of FFX's.

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Anyone who could apply to your writing on FFIX's graphics obviously cares way more about graphics than the average gamer. Its hypocritical. If they dont care about graphics then theyre not going to have much of an opinion on them at all.

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Again, someone who completely ignores what I'm saying. I don't give a damn about graphics. Do I need to shout it? Subliminal messages, mayhap? One of my favorite RPGs of all time has far superior graphics to FF8 or FF9.

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As far as I can see theyd focus on the games other aspects.

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...Isn't that exactly what I've been saying? Oh yeah, that logic thing.

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FFIX was a great game and was enjoyable.

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FFIX was a mediocre game that tried to satisfy both newcomers and old-schoolers. The characters were marginally developed, the plot was okay, the battle system was fairly standard(as the majority of FFs are - with the notable exception of FFT), and the magic system seemed a bit of an afterthought(though not nearly as much as FF8's). All of those facets contribute to my opinion on the came - I don't see "graphics" anywhere on that.

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Maybe you dont think this way but reading your post is going to give the impression that you dislike it for having good graphics despite decent gameplay.

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Unless, y'know, you actually read my whole post.

Quote:

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Im saying what me and others thought from reading your post, so maybe you should rethink your writings rather than insulting people who come to understandable conclusions.

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Who called who a moron, now? Oh yes - it was the other guy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

FFIX was a mediocre game that tried to satisfy both newcomers and old-schoolers. The characters were marginally developed, the plot was okay, the battle system was fairly standard(as the majority of FFs are - with the notable exception of FFT), and the magic system seemed a bit of an afterthought(though not nearly as much as FF8's). All of those facets contribute to my opinion on the came - I don't see "graphics" anywhere on that.

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Will you shut up about IX already! As I said before if you don't like it then fine. But don't you tell me that it was a mediocre game as if it's a fact. And that IS what you have been doing. And I HAVE read all youre posts as well. This is a perfect example of idiotic ff fans. We scream for a more "classic" game and then SE gives one to us. And then what do people like you do? They spit on it and say it's crap, when really it is a classic with better graphics. Sure it has its flaws but it is still a very good game and it frustrates me to no end when people like you go out of your way to critisize it. It may not be the best ff game but it's still frikin good!!!

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Originally Posted by squareSOFT

Will you shut up about IX already!

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...I'm not the one that brought the subject up. I'm sorry that you have to hear an opinion contrary to your own. If you want to function in the real world, I suggest you deal with it.

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As I said before if you don't like it then fine. But don't you tell me that it was a mediocre game as if it's a fact. And that IS what you have been doing.

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It is a fact - to me. It is a conclusion that I have come to after trying the game, and rationally considering my values(plot, characters, character development, battle system, and magic system) and comparing them to those equivalent aspects of the game.

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And I HAVE read all youre posts as well.

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Good, then what is all this bitching?

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This is a perfect example of idiotic ff fans. We scream for a more "classic" game and then SE gives one to us. And then what do people like you do? They spit on it and say it's crap, when really it is a classic with better graphics.

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FF9 was pitiful to FFT, but then again all other FFs are. FF9 was also weaker than FF6 plot-wise and character-wise, and arguably has a weaker magic system.

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Sure it has its flaws but it is still a very good game and it frustrates me to no end when people like you go out of your way to critisize it. It may not be the best ff game but it's still frikin good!!!

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I just love it when I articulate my reasons in a logical fashion, explaining all the issues I considered and my values as to what I consider to be a good RPG, and then the retort I get is, "it's a very good game!" It's a decent game compared to the other FFs(not extremely good company), but is mediocre when held up against my own values as to a good RPG, which, as I've already explained, are chiefly: plot, characters and character development, battle-system and magic-system. The FF that epitomizes all of those values is FFT, no contest.
And how do I go "out of my way" to criticize it? I could, with little to no actual thought or effort. But I simply made a couple of posts in a thread discussing this very subject, and I'M the one at fault for sharing my rational decision based off of a logical thought-process in accordance with my own values. I'm sorry you have to hear things you don't like.

[QUOTE=Raistlin]...I'm not the one that brought the subject up. I'm sorry that you have to hear an opinion contrary to your own. If you want to function in the real world, I suggest you deal with it.[QUOTE=Raistlin]

Its only when i hear an opinion that is, quite frankly like a typical, spoiled ff fan that I get mad. I dont mind hearing an opinion contrary to my own but when its all incessant babbling about FFT being the only good ff game, thats when I get angry

[QUOTE=Raistlin]It is a fact - to me. It is a conclusion that I have come to after trying the game, and rationally considering my values(plot, characters, character development, battle system, and magic system) and comparing them to those equivalent aspects of the game.[QUOTE=Raistlin]

If its only a fact to you then I suggest you stop acting like its a commonly known fact


[QUOTE=Raistlin]Good, then what is all this bitching?[QUOTE=Raistlin]

I'm only bitching about the fact that you treat IX like a chamber pot. Even if the battle system is a little underdeveloped as are some o the chars it should still be treated with more respect than your giving it

[QUOTE=Raistlin] FF9 was pitiful to FFT, but then again all other FFs are. FF9 was also weaker than FF6 plot-wise and character-wise, and arguably has a weaker magic system.[QUOTE=Raistlin]

Listen to yourself. This is worse than some of those oh-so-annoying FF7 fanboys. And to even suggest that all ff's are pitiful compared to FFT is a horrible mixture of arrogance and stupidy.


[QUOTE=Raistlin] I just love it when I articulate my reasons in a logical fashion, explaining all the issues I considered and my values as to what I consider to be a good RPG, and then the retort I get is, "it's a very good game!" It's a decent game compared to the other FFs(not extremely good company), but is mediocre when held up against my own values as to a good RPG, which, as I've already explained, are chiefly: plot, characters and character development, battle-system and magic-system. The FF that epitomizes all of those values is FFT, no contest.
And how do I go "out of my way" to criticize it? I could, with little to no actual thought or effort. But I simply made a couple of posts in a thread discussing this very subject, and I'M the one at fault for sharing my rational decision based off of a logical thought-process in accordance with my own values. I'm sorry you have to hear things you don't like.[QUOTE=Raistlin]
I'm not going to waste my time explaining to you why I liked ff9 because from what i've seen i'd just get something like "ya well FFT has a better battle system and storyline" And hearing things I dont like? Hell I love a good argument as much as anyone. But to suggest that your descions were rational is just going to far. You have said repeatedly that all ff's are garbage compared to FFT. I think I speak for all ff players when I say that you just crossed the line. FF is one helluva series if just for the sheer emotion that each game has. Every one of them has a unique way of worming its way into your heart and if you have never felt that (and you obviously havent) then you are a cold, cold person. If you wanna know what makes ff's so special go right ahead! Post a message on each ff topic asking for paragraphs on what makes it great. Mabe, just mabe you'll understand then. But seriously I doubt it. After all the wonders square has produced it is sad to see that there are still people like you who will never be satsified. Oh well, your loss...


EDIT:Sorry about the misdone quotes...

Raistlin, its a topic on a FF message board. Im not threatening your manhood by trying to debate games with you. If you can manage to speak to someone who disagrees with you over the games without insulting them everychance you get, it will make the convo and making your point, alot clearer and more enjoyable. seriously.

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No, because even the dumbest person would realize that that's not mean to be old school. Plus, this was still PS1-era; they couldn't use FMV graphics for anywhere near the quality of FFX's.

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So are you agreeing with me that the graphics style of FFIX was good? or bad because they were cartoony over realistic? or that they were all bad because they have to have 2D graphics to be oldskool?

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Anyone who could apply to your writing on FFIX's graphics obviously cares way more about graphics than the average gamer. Its hypocritical. If they dont care about graphics then theyre not going to have much of an opinion on them at all.

Again, someone who completely ignores what I'm saying. I don't give a damn about graphics. Do I need to shout it? Subliminal messages, mayhap? One of my favorite RPGs of all time has far superior graphics to FF8 or FF9.

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Raistlin, I wrote that post making sure I didnt say you thought that. It says anyone who applies to what you were saying when you wrote about FFIX in your post.

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Who called who a moron, now? Oh yes - it was the other guy.

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And he shouldnt have and if it makes yu feel better he'll apologise Im sure. Reading your post like me and others he clearly got the impression that you thought FFIX needed to have 2D graphics and felt that was a genuinely stupid idea. You've made it clear that you dont think that so Thone of Davis should apologise

To everything written above: LOL! :D

Don't ask, I just have a weird sense of humor. :greenie:

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Ah, that's good - make up some irrational theory as to my obviously partial motives.
FFT was an FF game. See that "Final Fantasy" part of the title? Yes, it's very different from the others - but isn't each FF supposed to be different?
FFT was better because the plot was more in-depth and involved than any other FF, the battle system and magic system were both more in-depth and involved, and the characters and development were at least as good as any other FF out there. I'm basing my opinion on articulable logic, and you base yours on whether it "fits in" with the other FFs or not. Hmm...

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Oh yes, because I hold classical FF games in such high regard. I don’t like FF9 because it “fits in” with other FF games, I like it because it managed to put a contemporary spin on the older FF games, actually giving them a plot, while at the same time using all of the themes employed in the newer FF games that would not seem out of place in a medieval backdrop. With lack of a better phrase, it’s “the best of both worlds”. I’m sorry I didn’t use articuable logic in my post. You see, I was under the impression that articuable wasn’t a real word…

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The same reasonings are mentioned in every argument...hmm...let's see, that leaves two possibilities:

1. FF8-haters have a secret cult where they manufacture reasons to hate the game.

2. FF8 just sucks in those areas.

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Yes, or people are just reiterating the same crap that they heard from some guy that hated the way FF8 was modern/futuristic. And that idea of the cult isn’t as far fetched as you might think.

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I was going to Warn you, but realized instead that you putting words into my mouth just made you a moron, so it was worth it. I suggest you actually read what I said before you shove your foot down your throat further.

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Quote:

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Did you completely skip the part where I said that I absolutely love Suikoden 3, including its 3D graphics(that are much better than FF8's and FF9's)? You just seem to be replying to some imaginary argument in your head rather than the things I said.

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I’m afraid you misread what I wrote:

Quote:

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Damn it, why can’t people understand that just because a game has great graphics, it doesn’t mean that any less attention was played to the other aspects of the game.

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I did read what you had to say about Suikoden 3, so I knew that you didn’t simply hate games with decent graphics. Although, your post seemed to imply that you are under the impression that if a game has decent graphics, the plot tends to suffer. Hell, you even said as much:

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The problem with going into 3D is the tendency to over-emphasize graphics…

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What proof do you have of this? Name an RPG whose lack of plot can be blamed entirely on its superior graphics. Maybe you should read what I write before you infer on my ability to comprehend your writing.

Quote:

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Also, if you don't consider FFT contemporary, then there's no way in hell FF7 can be.

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Why? Because FF7 came before FFT? I don’t consider FFT a contemporary FF game because it was very different from all of the other FF games, classical and contemporary alike. FFT’s story line is almost void of any FF references, remove the FF jobs and monsters and it wouldn’t be a FF game at all. FF games always have a focus on summons, crystals or magic. None of these things play an important part to the story of FFT, thus it bears no real relevance to this thread. FFT is a great game, but you can’t use it to…actually, what were you trying to prove with it?

Quote:

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...what? Why not? Because something you like is supposed to be held sacred by everyone else? I'm sorry I pointed out the obvious flaws of a game meant to make newcomers feel they were "old school" RPG players.

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Meh. I must admit, the phrasing of this sentence makes me look like a hypocrite, after mocking those who cry out when someone says FF1 was crap. Therefore, allow me to rephrase:

“Oh well, people shouldn’t insult FF9 FOR NO GOOD REASON”

And what flaws did you point out exactly? That FF9 had decent graphics? That was your original point after all…

Quote:

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...If I overdid it, what did the guy I was replying to do? Oh wait, I'm sorry, logic has no place here.

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You started your post with : “All of you people criticizing the older FF games: your opinions are automatically ruled invalid by the glaringly obvious fact that EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED THE BEST FINAL FANTASY EVER MADE.”

If I overreacted at all, it was because you seem to think that everyone else who posted here has no idea what their talking about, simply because they didn’t mention a game that wasn’t relevant in the first place.

Quote:

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FFIX was a mediocre game that tried to satisfy both newcomers and old-schoolers. The characters were marginally developed, the plot was okay, the battle system was fairly standard (as the majority of FFs are - with the notable exception of FFT), and the magic system seemed a bit of an afterthought(though not nearly as much as FF8's). All of those facets contribute to my opinion on the came - I don't see "graphics" anywhere on that.

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What the hell is with your idolization of FFT? Why is every other FF game substandard compared to this game? Seriously, you seem to think that this game was superior to all the others in every way except for graphics. Well, let me just point something out:

1. Characters development only existed between the protagonist and the games NPC’s. All of the other characters you control had no personalities, as they were virtually created by the player.
2. The plot, while ‘involved’, was extremely slow moving, and all of the games twists you could see a mile away.
3. Despite how ‘new’ and ‘challenging’ the battle system was in this game, it was very tedious when it came to character levelling, and boss fights were no where near as fun as they are with ATB/CTB.
4. The ‘perpetual’ world map meant that the game moved in a very linear fashion (I’m not kidding, you really did move in a straight line from place to place.). It also caused the game to lose that sense of atmosphere found in all of the other FF games.
Note that none of these flaws make FFT intolerable. These are all still valid point however, FFT did not outperform all the other FF games in every way, as you seem to imply in your posts.

And how exactly was magic an after thought in FF8?! It was the only FF game where magic was explained to any grate degree. Apart from GF’s, I would say magic was the prime focus of this game. How could you think a magic system as complex as Junctioning was just tacked on?

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Who called who a moron, now? Oh yes - it was the other guy.

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For the record, you insulted us all first with your pathetic “your opinions are invalid” comment. I don’t call people morons for no reason.

Quote:

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...I'm not the one that brought the subject up. I'm sorry that you have to hear an opinion contrary to your own. If you want to function in the real world, I suggest you deal with it.

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Funny, I seem to remember the subject of this thread was “Contemporary FF games: Over criticised?” not “FFIX is the best game ever”. So were did all this FFIX talk come from? Oh, that’s right:

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Now, to FF9. This one really irritates me because it's supposed to be a nod towards older games. Then why isn't it in 2D? Because graphics sell. When you try to sell an RPG based on looks, it's going to anger some gamers who don't give a damn about graphics, and just want a good game.

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Oh, and by the way, people don’t care that you didn’t like FF9. What they care about is the fact that you don’t seem to be able to come up with any points as to why it was crap, other than “it was a tribute to classic FF games, yet it wasn’t 2D”.

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It is a fact - to me. It is a conclusion that I have come to after trying the game, and rationally considering my values(plot, characters, character development, battle system, and magic system) and comparing them to those equivalent aspects of the game.

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Yes, and your values seem to be based on the worst example you could possible find for a FF game, since it was supposed to be entirely different. Well, after considering my set of values, you’re an idiot-that’s fact to me.

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Good, then what is all this bitching?

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The ‘bitching’ is about the way you claim we haven’t read your posts in there entirety, yet really you’ve misinterpreted ours.

Quote:

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FF9 was pitiful to FFT, but then again all other FFs are. FF9 was also weaker than FF6 plot-wise and character-wise, and arguably has a weaker magic system.

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Congratulations, you just invalidated all of your points, as you obviously have a very biased view on how a FF game should be (i.e. not really like an FF game).

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I just love it when I articulate my reasons in a logical fashion, explaining all the issues I considered and my values as to what I consider to be a good RPG, and then the retort I get is, "it's a very good game!" It's a decent game compared to the other FFs(not extremely good company), but is mediocre when held up against my own values as to a good RPG, which, as I've already explained, are chiefly: plot, characters and character development, battle-system and magic-system. The FF that epitomizes all of those values is FFT, no contest.
And how do I go "out of my way" to criticize it? I could, with little to no actual thought or effort. But I simply made a couple of posts in a thread discussing this very subject, and I'M the one at fault for sharing my rational decision based off of a logical thought-process in accordance with my own values. I'm sorry you have to hear things you don't like.

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What? What do you think this thread is about? A simple glance at the thread title and you will see how irrelevant your posts are. Once again, this thread is about whether contemporary FF games are unfairly criticised, compared to classical FF games, which go practically unscratched. You are supposed to by trying to prove that classical FF games are so much better than contemporary ones that they deserve less criticism or factor that might affect people’s opinions on either type. Most people that have replied to this thread have managed to do this, and have even come up with valid points as to why my views aren’t entirely correct. You, however, used FFT rather than a classical FF game as the median for your opinion, which cannot be used to argue either way.

Ok, so let’s consider the net worth of your posts, the only point that wasn’t off-topic.

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The older games are better, not because they are older, but because they are better.

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I see…Classical FF games are better, because there are…better.
Hmm, maybe you should have elaborated on this point further, rather than insulting FF9, and comparing everything to Final Fantasy Tactics…

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Destai

Raistlin, its a topic on a FF message board. Im not threatening your manhood by trying to debate games with you. If you can manage to speak to someone who disagrees with you over the games without insulting them everychance you get, it will make the convo and making your point, alot clearer and more enjoyable. seriously.

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No, because even the dumbest person would realize that that's not mean to be old school. Plus, this was still PS1-era; they couldn't use FMV graphics for anywhere near the quality of FFX's.

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So are you agreeing with me that the graphics style of FFIX was good? or bad because they were cartoony over realistic? or that they were all bad because they have to have 2D graphics to be oldskool?

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Anyone who could apply to your writing on FFIX's graphics obviously cares way more about graphics than the average gamer. Its hypocritical. If they dont care about graphics then theyre not going to have much of an opinion on them at all.

Again, someone who completely ignores what I'm saying. I don't give a damn about graphics. Do I need to shout it? Subliminal messages, mayhap? One of my favorite RPGs of all time has far superior graphics to FF8 or FF9.

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Raistlin, I wrote that post making sure I didnt say you thought that. It says anyone who applies to what you were saying when you wrote about FFIX in your post.

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Who called who a moron, now? Oh yes - it was the other guy.

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And he shouldnt have and if it makes yu feel better he'll apologise Im sure. Reading your post like me and others he clearly got the impression that you thought FFIX needed to have 2D graphics and felt that was a genuinely stupid idea. You've made it clear that you dont think that so Thone of Davis should apologise

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Thone of Davis? What am I, Jewish?

As for apologizing… meh, I stand by my description. If Raistlin does anything to prove he isn’t a moron (God knows he hasn’t so far) , then I’ll gladly apologize.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

As for apologizing… meh, I stand by my description. If Raistlin does anything to prove he isn’t a moron (God knows he hasn’t so far) , then I’ll gladly apologize.

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Don't hold your breath

I love how you guys skip over everything you can't answer. First off, one of you guys said, "your whole post was off-topic but this one phrase" (where I said the older games are better), and then completely left out the entire rest of my post where I showed my reasonings(I seem to be the only one discussing reality here) as to why the newer games are worse.

Secondly, how did I insult anyone by my "all of your opinions are invalid" comment? Ever heard of a joke? People always skip FFT.

Thirdly, I metioned FFT because it's focus is solely on plot, characters and development, battle-system, and magic-system, which are my chief values concerning RPGs.

Fourthly, I said going to 3D graphics has a tendency to over-emphasize graphics. Tendency, not fact. As proof, I suggest FF8, FF10, and FFX-2.

Lastly, I patiently explained my values as to what I consider a good RPG, explained how FF8, FF9, FFX, and FFX-2(the newer games) leveled up with those values compared to other FFs, and then to other RPGs...and I'm giving tired old reasons? It seems to me that I'm the only one giving actual reasons for the things I say, and I get jumped on because I don't share the popular opinion.

And if I sounded condescending, your arguments were irrational. Attacking my argument itself is foolish - it's my reasons that are in question, and I have yet to see any comments on those.

And I could Warn most of you, but I find this all terribly amusing.

Just a thought: here's how this discussion has been going, in political form:

Me: I don't like Bush for this, this, and this.
You guys: Bush rules! You just don't like Republican presidents!
Me; huh?

Ah, well, shows me to try to incorporate logic in my arguments.

Quote:

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I love how you guys skip over everything you can't answer. First off, one of you guys said, "your whole post was off-topic but this one phrase" (where I said the older games are better), and then completely left out the entire rest of my post where I showed my reasonings(I seem to be the only one discussing reality here) as to why the newer games are worse.

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Skip everything they cant answer? Maybe they agree with you or maybe they dont see the point in bothering. Thats just making assumptions. And ThronodDarvis didnt ignore that part of your post, he said you should elaborate further.

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Secondly, how did I insult anyone by my "all of your opinions are invalid" comment? Ever heard of a joke? People always skip FFT.

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You've taken jokes the wrong way yourself, "oh well, people shouldnt insult IX." That was pretty clearly a joke.

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Fourthly, I said going to 3D graphics has a tendency to over-emphasize graphics. Tendency, not fact. As proof, I suggest FF8, FF10, and FFX-2.

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I agree those games had good graphics and I think the rest of those games was very well thought out and detailed as far as battle system and storyline go.

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Lastly, I patiently explained my values as to what I consider a good RPG, explained how FF8, FF9, FFX, and FFX-2(the newer games) leveled up with those values compared to other FFs, and then to other RPGs...and I'm giving tired old reasons? It seems to me that I'm the only one giving actual reasons for the things I say, and I get jumped on because I don't share the popular opinion.

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Its called a debate.

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And if I sounded condescending, your arguments were irrational. Attacking my argument itself is foolish - it's my reasons that are in question, and I have yet to see any comments on those.

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But if your arguments off topic whats the point?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

You see, I was under the impression that articuable wasn’t a real word…

---

First of all

Main Entry: ar·tic·u·la·ble
Pronunciation: är-'ti-ky&-l&-b&l
Function: adjective
: capable of being expressed, explained, or justified

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

Why? Because FF7 came before FFT? I don’t consider FFT a contemporary FF game because it was very different from all of the other FF games, classical and contemporary alike

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Second of all

con·tem·po·rar·y P Pronunciation Key (kn-tmp-rr)
adj.
Belonging to the same period of time
Of about the same age.
Current; modern:


Now if I am right FFT was released after FF7. Thus by the argument of correct word usage I can safely say that if FF7 is contemporary so is FFT. End of that arguement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

FFT’s story line is almost void of any FF references, remove the FF jobs and monsters and it wouldn’t be a FF game at all. FF games always have a focus on summons, crystals or magic. None of these things play an important part to the story of FFT, thus it bears no real relevance to this thread

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Finally, the game is definately a FF game.. I don't know how one could confuse it otherwise. It follows the lead of having a "Cid" in it. It has the traditional monsters. The job system is a modified FFV job system(for the most part). It has cloud in it, it does use crystals albeit in a new fashion. So who is the one discriminating for trying something "new".

Oh yes there is more than that I am certian that links it to the FF series.. but first, I have to get ready for a ceremony, and two it is taking a bit of time to think about FFT since it has been awhile since I last played.

As a last note. You do realize that the individual FF games tend not to link as much as some think... what are the links between 6 and 5 or between 8 and 7? Just about the only one you can easily claim links for is X and X-2(or so hearsay says).

Boy do I wish I had FFIX so that I could hop into the heat of this instead of fenching the edges.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

If Raistlin does anything to prove he isn’t a moron (God knows he hasn’t so far) , then I’ll gladly apologize.

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Well... morons are just annoying, not amusing, right? Then he's hardly a moron. :p


Edit: Oww, man... I really wonder why I haven't noticed this post until now:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gwelenguchenkus

You still kind of missed the point though.

People can dislike FFX and not enjoy playing it, and then ENJOY playing FF1, and would RATHER play it.

That is NOT a far-fetched idea. No matter how much 'better' you think FFX is in 'evey way possible' there is still someone who does not like the sphere grid, the plot, the characters, and it's just NOT their cup of tea Totally hates the game. Yet this sam person can sit through FF1 and enjoy it. Are they insane? Thats simply a matter of opinion.

What I've trying to say is that you can analyze a game in all of its catagories and say it totally smashes another game to pieces, but that still doesn't make it better by someone else's standards.

I mean sure, mindless bashing is always a problem, but you can't always tell a person that just 'hasn't given the game a chance' as compared to someone who 'doesn't like the game and prefers an older one'.

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No, I didn't miss the point and I actually agree. :p I like many of the older ones much better than many of the new ones. I just... uhh... actually I've already forgot the reason I posted the post that you quoted, but whatever... nevermind. :p

Urgh... I'm just too tired to think clearly... I have to refresh my mind a bit... :eep: *goes to sleep*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

I love how you guys skip over everything you can't answer. First off, one of you guys said, "your whole post was off-topic but this one phrase" (where I said the older games are better), and then completely left out the entire rest of my post where I showed my reasonings(I seem to be the only one discussing reality here) as to why the newer games are worse.

Secondly, how did I insult anyone by my "all of your opinions are invalid" comment? Ever heard of a joke? People always skip FFT.

Thirdly, I metioned FFT because it's focus is solely on plot, characters and development, battle-system, and magic-system, which are my chief values concerning RPGs.

Fourthly, I said going to 3D graphics has a tendency to over-emphasize graphics. Tendency, not fact. As proof, I suggest FF8, FF10, and FFX-2.

Lastly, I patiently explained my values as to what I consider a good RPG, explained how FF8, FF9, FFX, and FFX-2(the newer games) leveled up with those values compared to other FFs, and then to other RPGs...and I'm giving tired old reasons? It seems to me that I'm the only one giving actual reasons for the things I say, and I get jumped on because I don't share the popular opinion.

And if I sounded condescending, your arguments were irrational. Attacking my argument itself is foolish - it's my reasons that are in question, and I have yet to see any comments on those.

And I could Warn most of you, but I find this all terribly amusing.

Just a thought: here's how this discussion has been going, in political form:

Me: I don't like Bush for this, this, and this.
You guys: Bush rules! You just don't like Republican presidents!
Me; huh?

Ah, well, shows me to try to incorporate logic in my arguments.

---

Do you even have a point? Or are you going to continue to sputter on about illogical arguments and the like? Please could you make a fresh posts that clearly defines what you believe In relation to the topic. Then arguments could actually be made about the topic, instead of who's being a moron and such.

Its arguments like these that make me love FF even more :love: :cool: :D

I've already discussed my indesputable (joke) opinion on this matter, but there is really no sense in calling anyone a moron in this arguement.

Raistlin has given his opinion, so why should he be insulted as such?

I love FFIX personally. Someone can say 'The ability system was annoying' another can say 'it didn't bother me, and I liked it'. Someone could say 'the plot was just a rehash of ast FFs' while someone else thinks its original and incorporates aspects of the old FF well. It's all a matter of opinion, right? So what is the big fuss about?

The reason the character design in FFIX was SOOOO different, by the way, was partially because there was a different illustrator, and an old character designer returned (amano). While, if the illustrator of FF8 illustrated from amano's designs, you might have gotten something much different than what you see.

The 'odd looking characters' didn't have much to do with being 'old school' in my opinion. It was totally original, even much different than any of the old school stuff I've seen! Sure we have a black mage, a dragoon, etc, but Vivi doesn't look like a typical black mage of old, and Freya CERTAINLY doesn't look like Kain, at all really. Tell me how the 3D art in the game, whether it is 'deformed' or not, corresponds to the old 2D sprites? Do you think the characters in 1-6 would be made to look similar to FF9 if remadein 3D the way 'they were intended to look'? That is all a matter of opinion.

< Discussion on FFT >

FFT does NOT just have 'FF slapped on it'. It is indeed a Final Fantasy in every respect.

However, it is not part of the main series. FFT was created by a totally different developing team at the time. Now, many of those people are working on FFXII, but back then, it was different.

FFT has a uniqe style not of the FF series. Before people jump on me saying that 'all the FFs are different' this is indeed true, but EVERY FINAL FANTASY RELEASED so far has been made by similar people. A few are switched out, sure, but a lot of it still has te same feel.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10(partially) -- Nobuo Uematsu made music for all of them. Different styles along the way? Sure!

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, -- Amano made the original character designs. However, except for 9, he was pretty much replaced with Tetsuya Nomura, who did 7, 8, 10...

Change? Indeed, but the main FF series has always stuck with the traditional random battles with 3 or 4 (5 for FF4) characters who you use in a team who have a variety of attacks who kill the enemies.

There has almost always been a fleshed out world map to traverse freely, with forests , etc.

These are things typical of the main FF series. They have their own style. However, they may be vastly different in other ways, there are some core attributes that give the title a roman numeral after it.

Final Fantasy Tactics has no roman numeral. It is a spin-off game, still made by square with many familiar themes, but has a much different battle system, thus it does not get a number, but 'tactics' signfying that this is THE tactics Final Fantasy, not the main series. An FF game, but different because it has a tacics twist, if you will.


< / Discussion on FFT >

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShunNakamura

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

You see, I was under the impression that articuable wasn’t a real word…

---

First of all

Main Entry: ar·tic·u·la·ble
Pronunciation: är-'ti-ky&-l&-b&l
Function: adjective
: capable of being expressed, explained, or justified

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

Why? Because FF7 came before FFT? I don’t consider FFT a contemporary FF game because it was very different from all of the other FF games, classical and contemporary alike

---

Second of all

con·tem·po·rar·y P Pronunciation Key (kn-tmp-rr)
adj.
Belonging to the same period of time
Of about the same age.
Current; modern:


Now if I am right FFT was released after FF7. Thus by the argument of correct word usage I can safely say that if FF7 is contemporary so is FFT. End of that arguement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

FFT’s story line is almost void of any FF references, remove the FF jobs and monsters and it wouldn’t be a FF game at all. FF games always have a focus on summons, crystals or magic. None of these things play an important part to the story of FFT, thus it bears no real relevance to this thread

---

Finally, the game is definately a FF game.. I don't know how one could confuse it otherwise. It follows the lead of having a "Cid" in it. It has the traditional monsters. The job system is a modified FFV job system(for the most part). It has cloud in it, it does use crystals albeit in a new fashion. So who is the one discriminating for trying something "new".

Oh yes there is more than that I am certian that links it to the FF series.. but first, I have to get ready for a ceremony, and two it is taking a bit of time to think about FFT since it has been awhile since I last played.

As a last note. You do realize that the individual FF games tend not to link as much as some think... what are the links between 6 and 5 or between 8 and 7? Just about the only one you can easily claim links for is X and X-2(or so hearsay says).

Boy do I wish I had FFIX so that I could hop into the heat of this instead of fenching the edges.

---

Yes, articulable is a word, but articuable is not. I was making a small joke…no one found it funny?I do know what the word contemporary means; obviously I don’t consider FFT a contemporary FF game because it's very different from the rest. Even though FF games are supposed to be stand-alone, they all have similar aspects to game play or themes compared to the game before them. This linear progression isn’t present in FFT, it strays away from the genre to the stage that, as the name would imply, it’s more of a game of tactics rather than an RPG.

Also, Raistlin’s was using FFT as a comparison in relation to contemporary FF games, so even if FFT was considered contemporary, he missed the point of the thread. He was supposed to prove that Classical FF games were so much better than Contemporary ones that they didn’t deserve as much criticism, instead he rambled on about how great FFT was, when nobody was debating the fact.

Oh, and I was hardly discriminating against FFT because it was “new”. I just feel that a break-away game like FFT can't possible prove that Contemporary FF games aren’t over criticized, at least not in the manner that anyone has presented so far.

Right, right. I sorta follow what you are saying there. Anyways, I don't know if it is any more overcriticised then anything else is. In our modern world in which the contempories were released, everything is criticised more then it was. So I tell you to blame it on the progression of time and society. People need to be a bit more laid back I think.. including myself.

Either I like the game, or I don't. Turns out I like all of them. It doesn't really bother me if others want to criticize it. I don't really see the point of caring if other people like a game or not, or why you would want to argue about it over and over, unless it was to waste time, but then again it doesn't really bother me if other people do. We all like different things.

Try to keep it civilized, though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

If someone revives my “Contemporary FF games: over criticized?” thread I would be eternally grateful.

It was too young to die….

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Old Manus

http://pokemon.tcgplayer.com/tcg/scans/base/revive.jpg

Don't leave home without it.

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...Screw it, it's better than nothing!

*bows*

Well done, you saved christmas...

Anyway, before it dies again, there is one amendment I would like to make to my original post:

FFIV is an awesome game, once you get into it. I would put it above FFV in my FF preference order.

That is all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

Anyway, before it dies again, there is one amendment I would like to make to my original post:

FFIV is an awesome game, once you get into it. I would put it above FFV in my FF preference order.

That is all.

---

Im fighting Zeromus right now .Well Im right in front of him and havent been bothered to tackle the final fight for a few years. Anyway I dont think its that great.

Well, it's better than what I said it was originally.

It's better than FFV at least

Wow, interesting thread.

I agree with Throne of Davaris for the most part although I would phrase it differently. I think it's pretty clear that the "contemporary" games do have more in-depth storylines (not better but more in-depth). They do spend more time developing characters in the "contemporary" games. Also the graphics are stronger although not neccasarily better done, I base how strong graphics are for how nicely they're done not how powerful the engine making them is. But it comes down to people will like some games more than others. They will get turned off by some games and they will love others with or without a rational reason. However I think that there is a lot more depth in contemporary games. People call the characters in FF8 shallow yet in fact you see more of squall's feelings than any other character in an ff (I'm pretty sure of this). I think he's a good example of how there is more depth in contemporary characters. I also feel that contemporary games have more potential, as the plots are more thought out imo (usually) and they do spend more time developing them.

Lastly I think this thread could've been much more interesting if it hadn't been filled with insults stuck in at every chance certain people get.

That was my rant, I hope that it was "rational" and "on topic" because it was meant to be...

Edit: I really tried to not state things as fact, which is something that has been horribly abused in this thread.

Hey, someone actually read everything *impressed*

Certain people? Oh right, you mean me…

Well, I was knew when this thread was started. If I had realized that Raistlin was a long standing member here I probably wouldn’t have gone out of my way to insult him…

Seriously though, Tactics had nothing to do with anything…

Definitely not only u, and no tactics didn't have anything to do with it (although he didn't know that immediately). I think u definitely brought up an interesting topic with this thread. I get bugged at how much people attack games but then again how defensive and pointlessly insulting people get can be just as bad (was that on subject? let's hope so). :D

Edit: Oh yeah, I'm also not trying to insult u, I thought a lot of what u said was really well thought out, though it did head down hill, as the thread did.

well that was definatly worth the 1 and a half hour of readingnow for some posting

i also played X first then i played crono trigger (yes i know ill get to that) after that i played VI then V then VIII .

cant say i played them all but i had my share now my favorite would be X it was great in every aspect of it (for me it was) i liked the characters very much and wel fo rme it was different (i always played iperson shooters and strategie games) well i wanted to play more and through a friend i came upon crono trigger i enjoyed that game verry much so i started with VI and now i think this is truly one of the best ffs ever it was perfectly ballanced. I also enjoyed V and VIII but just not as much

and i want to thank every FF7/cloud/sephirot fanboy for they have ruined the game for me i havent even played it yet and already lost my will because of them i would however like to play 9 sometime unfortunatly i dont own a ps or ps2

and i want to gongratulate you for this was the first time ever i nedded a dictonary here on eoff

No I do not believe the new FF games are overly critized and I don't believe the older FF games are overhyped. The thing you need to look at is the game and the time period it was released. The reason FFI was so amazing and still is today, was because it was awesome for when it was released and had something new to play. The games after that continued in this line, but I don't really think FFII is all that great.

PLUS you said not to play the older FF games because the graphics suck, I hate this argument. I've argued numerous times that graphics do not make a game, and I still hold true to this argument. FFI is still a great game even if the graphics aren't all that amazing, and actually FFIII is also an awesome game with alot of choices and different things to do that I happen to love, one of my top 3 FF games!

Now as for FFVI being considered the best just because of the popularity of FFVII, i believe you're wrong there too. FFVI is a great game because of the numerous amounts of characters, all with their own little story. There is no main character in the game, and don't even say Terra because you can beat the game without even having her in your party. Characters can die, characters do die, including one of my favorites in the game. Everyone made a big deal of the Aeris death, but I felt just as shocked when general leo died, I didn't see that one coming. FFVI is a great game, and it's graphics for the time were even superb. That is why FFVI is my favorite FF game, then FFVII, then FFIII, as a matter of fact...


all in all, if you think the new games are over criticised, look at why...
After FFVII these games had this brand on them that they had to be the greatest game ever, and if one person could have something they didn't like about it, the game sucked. I personally think it's stupid. Because honestly, take any FF game and don't compare them to eachother, but compare them to the other RPGs at the time of it's release, and there is maybe 1 other RPG that compares to it at it's time of release. People need to stop saying this FF game is better than that one because of this, and say, hey, FF games are all DIFFERENT from eachother, but compared to the other RPG i could have gotten FF was the better choice!

THE JACKEL

EDIT: I'd also like to note that by searching google for FF(n) was crap is not a good way of proving your point. i think 90% of "FF Fans" haven't even played the earlier FF, and earlier I mean before VII, and their only real complaint about them is the graphics. Seriously, I've played all of them through X, and I've already stated my top III, weirdly enough, if you want me to list all I've played in order I would!

Just for convenience sake (and because I can't be bothered arguing everything all over again), I have gone through the topic and picked out a quote that pretty much sums up my thoughts on the thread:

Quote:

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I don’t “hate” all classical FF games, what I hate is how people always assume that anything made nowadays was pathetic compared to something made over a decade ago.

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What I mean by this is, people say that FFI or whatever is MUCH better than FFX, yet when you try to compare the two, people always use lines to the effect of “oh, but you can’t compare them in that area, the game is X years older than that one!” So, my question is, does this mean that just because a game is older, it makes it immune to being scrutinized by contemporary gamers? When someone considers a game like FFX, they will nitpick at every little detail, yet it would seem that because FFI was considered a ‘great game’ in a time when expectations were undeniably much lower, it allows it to bypass all of the modern scrutiny and still be considered as a viable comparison.

So, I propose that if someone states that one game is better than any other, the games should be compared in all areas, regardless of any age differences. In addition, the opinion of “I like FF(n) better because it was the first one I played” should be recognised to be a biased opinion, and in no way as useful as “I like FF(n) better because it succeeds in these areas…”

Or something like that. Can’t remember what my mentality was when I wrote it, maybe I was just trying to start a flame war…

But while I like to rate games based on different categories they are supposed to be fun. You don't need a reason to rate one game higher than another. What it seems like this is headed for is attempts to really compare games on different levels instead of just saying I like this one more. I think both are OK but that both should be recognized as ways of looking at games. I do agree with you though that all games should be rated on the same scale. The thing I'm not sure about (although I do tend to rate games this way) is whether it needs to get to a scale, if people could just say i love both games or this one doesn't work for me, without having to compare categories or attempt to prove one's better that would be nice. However that's so unlikely (reminds me for some reason of the ideas of communism), and doesn't lead to remotely interesting arguments.

Above was kind of my opinion and kind of just another way of looking at this (admittedly maybe not on subject).

I do agree though with what u said and do find that people frequently do say "well u can't rate them on the same scale" which bugs me as well.

Quote:

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So, I propose that if someone states that one game is better than any other, the games should be compared in all areas, regardless of any age differences. In addition, the opinion of “I like FF(n) better because it was the first one I played” should be recognised to be a biased opinion, and in no way as useful as “I like FF(n) better because it succeeds in these areas…”

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But it will always be biased, as all games will have different feels to them and different ways of developing the characters, which work for different people. It's very difficult to argue that one game is better than another- the closest thing I can think of is game X has more depth than game Y.

As I say at the end of a lot of my posts, I love to ramble.

I agree with everyone

There, no bashing for me. :cool:

I dont like the battle system in alot of the older games either. Or in VIII. VI, VII,IX and X were the best for me.

FF1 is utter CRAP

FF7: To all you “fan-boys” out there: Seriously, curb your enthusiasm a little. I know, it’s a great game, but your annoying the hell out of the rest of us. You got your movie (which looks great by the way) so take it down a notch.


BTW I DONT APPRECIATE YOU LEAVING OUT OBESSED FAN GIRLS OF ff7

People are still reading this? Wow, I thought for sure it was going to die this time...

Anyway, when I say 'fanboys' it's really like saying 'postman'. It can be either gender, but it's easier to classify everyone under then same title. Besides, 'fangirl' sounds lame....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

People are still reading this? Wow, I thought for sure it was going to die this time...

Anyway, when I say 'fanboys' it's really like saying 'postman'. It can be either gender, but it's easier to classify everyone under then same title. Besides, 'fangirl' sounds lame....

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What are you talking about, arent you the one who just revived it? again?

Yes but from the way it was going, it looked like it was going to die again.

Maybe it should. No one seems to have anything else to say on this issue. I can barley remember what the issue was...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris

I can barley remember what the issue was...

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you liar xD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DMKA

Then you ask them how far they got and they say "omg I didn't play that crap for more than 5 minutes!"....yeah.

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me in ffx-2, but, yeah, i stopped because i couldnt take the music. no i wont just turn the sound off, one of the main things i love about ff's are the musical scores.

but you really hit it with the FFVI/VII thing. great post.