Do you think that Final Fantasy VIII truely potrays love? And if so, how?
I believe it does, because you don't see a person like Squall change that much with no influence...Only love can do that to him... The things her does for her...Only love can trigger them...So yes...it does...
I think it portrays teen obsession and infatuation.
As I've said many times before, he goes from disliking and being annoyed by her to being obsessed with her. And I really dont care what anyone says about 'looking deeper'. We hear his inner dialogue. He doesnt like her. There's no hint that he does. And then he's head over heels and unable to live without her. True teen angst. And I really think Rinoa is just looking for a challenge and a bit of fun.
I know I for one wouldn't mind being rescued from the depths of space by a hot guy like squall.
Everybody knows Squall doesn't like Rinoa at first. That is obvious. However, he does grow to love her later on. I fail to see how that constitues teen angst, but that's just my opinion.
It did seem to me that it happened rather...sudden and out of the blue that he went from not being able to stand her to OH MY GOD MUST SAVE AND PROTECT, but then, it happened in an instance where it was a "you don't know what you have till it's gone" situation...so I still think it was well done.
But yeah, I'm sure he was dating Quistis and she was dating some dude from Deling City by the next year.
It was angst because it changed in an instant. He didnt care until she was in a coma, which is beyond angsty.Quote:
Originally Posted by nik0tine
There was a subtle progression. In the begining, Squall doesn't like her at all. After a while, he doesn't seem to hate her anymore. When she goes into a coma, he realizes what he has lost. Thats how I see it, anyway.Quote:
It was angst because it changed in an instant. He didnt care until she was in a coma, which is beyond angsty.
I strongly disagree, because there is nothing subtle. He dislikes her up until that point. His inner monologue never changes in regards to Rinoa. He starts to open up more, yes, but he doesnt start to fall for Rinoa. It's not subtle or real, it's split-second change. I'm sure others will come to argue this with me, but I'll never change my view. I even replayed the game to be sure, and I dont agree with anyone who says there was subtle change.
It could just be because I dont think anyone could fall in love that quickly, period. I dont think Cloud and Aerith could love eachother after such a short time, nor Locke and Celes, nor even Yuna and Tidus. I see the attraction and the beginning of feelings and the love that friendship brings, but not romantic love. Not in that amount of time. Maybe it's because I'm a cynic. But I see Rinoa and Squall the same way I see the people in high school, after two weeks dating, proclaiming they'll be in love forever. Angsty teen love.
At least they knew each other longer than Romeo and Juliet did.
Indeed. I feel the same about those two, really. That's a perfect example of teen angst, mindless rebellion, and infatuation. At least Squall knew things about Rinoa. Romeo saw Juliet and was head over heels.
This I will agree with. However, I guess they can't make it too realistic or the game would take forever.Quote:
It could just be because I dont think anyone could fall in love that quickly, period. I dont think Cloud and Aerith could love eachother after such a short time, nor Locke and Celes, nor even Yuna and Tidus.
They can, sort of. Like with Cecil and Rosa, or Tifa and Cloud. They have long-standing relationships (simply knowing eachother, I'm not claiming Tifa and Cloud belong together or whatever) and it's more believable. But yeah, generally they cant.
Personally, I believe that it does. At least, if I assume Squall's mind correctly, it does.
Squall is actually in love with her long before the space incident. You can definitely see that he has emotions for her during the scene from Trabia. Otherwise, he wouldn't be so upset when Rinoa suggests that they try a plan other than violence. Squall believes that, being a SeeD raised in Garden since approximately the age of five, he is a warrior who knows nothing but combat. So he thinks of Rinoa's rejection of violence as a rejection of him personally, which is why it upsets him so much.
Also, Squall has lived his life shutting himself away from people, avoiding friends of any type for as long as possible. Part of the reason he picks fights with Rinoa is to push her away from him. He doesn't want to fall in love, because he believes that if he falls in love, he will lose the person he loves (and thanks to the GF, he doesn't even really remember why he feels that way). So he denies his feelings for her even to himself. It's not until he loses her to Ultimecia's powers that he is forced to confront his feelings for her head on. Then he realizes that no matter how hard he has tried to avoid it, he has fallen in love, and he has indeed lost her as he feared he would.
With this realization Squall also realized that he cared too deeply for her to lose her, and he throws away practically everything he has ever believed in an attempt to prove himself wrong: that if he tries hard enough, he won't lose her after all. When he finally gets her back, only to have her taken from him be Esthar, he gives in to despair and falls back to his old habits, which is why it takes the presuasion of his friends to get him to go after her again. He left his home, traveled around the world, into space, and back down in a seventeen year old starship and still doesn't get her back. He has little else to think except that he was right, and that he would lose her even if he did manage to recover her again. Especially since her leaving him was her choice, as far as he can see (even though it wasn't what she truly wanted).
Also, the others are quite right in that sometimes you don't know what you have until you've lost it. As long as he had her by his side, he didn't have to worry about a thing, but whenever he was in danger of losing her, his true feelings became all too clear. Such as when she is in danger of falling to her death during the Garden Wars. His feelings for her become painfully obvious during that incident as well.
Certainly, Abominatrix, we are privy to his internal monologues. If that is enough to convince you, I offer you my most sincere sympathies. No one that I have ever encountered is so simply as to think things through that clearly or that simply. What we heard was what he told himself. He denied his love for her to assure his own saftey. Do you really think that he only has one level of thought? I know that I have several levels at any one given time that I am aware of, which doesn't even count my subconcious. The mental talks that he has with himself are simply him trying to reassure himself that he doesn't love her. In reality, he loves her very much. But he was brought up as a warrior, which is certainly not the best place to learn to understand one's own emotions (if you want a good comparison, try watching Farscape. Aeryn's feelings for John are fairly obvious to anyone watching the show, but she pushes him away because she is unsure of her own emotions. Love is alien to her; she doesn't understand it and it doesn't fit with anything that she has felt before, so she rejects it. That doesn't mean that the feelings aren't there. I believe that Squall's feelings for Rinoa are much the same), and he has had a fairly poor past when it comes to dealing with those he loves. You really can't blaim the poor guy for living in a constant state of denial. Especially since, as long as Rinoa is ok, living in denial is acceptable. He's not in danger of losing her. As long as she's safe, he can keep his true feelings hidden, even from himself. This changes because he is forced to face his feelings from her, and once they are brought out so that they are obvious even to him, there is little point in hiding them again.
Well, that's all for now. I'd better go before I start repeating myself too much.
If he doesnt reveal it outwardly, and he doesnt reveal it inwardly, than I dont believe it's there. You can say it is all you want, but as I said, I dont believe it.
He does reveal it outwardly. I saw it right away. So did Irvine, Selphie, Quistis, Zell... Heck, even Cid notices it. I think the only one who didn't know how he felt about Rinoa was Squall himself. Rinoa certainly knew it. She was just waiting for Squall to admit to himself. Personally, I fail to see how you could have seen it. It seemed obvious to me. Of course, I admit that I am not the most normal of people in the world (and the game characters you will probably argue had out of character knowledge), so I doubt that I can convince you.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
They say it, but I dont see it. It's that old 'if they act like they dislike eachother, they must like eachother' teasing, as far as I can see it. He's rude and cold to her, he simply does his job until she's in a coma, then he freaks. I'm not saying you're wrong, but in my eyes, it's forced, underdeveloped, and really dumb. You have good points, I just dont agree with any of them.
And with Aeryn and John of Scape, it took a VERY long time and they were still ripe with problems. I know VIII didnt have the time span to do such a thing, but it's more believable like that.
One small point. They don't act like they dislike each other. Rinoa obviously likes Squall. He doesn't act like he likes anyone. But the way he treats Rinoa is seperate from the way that he treats the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
...Oh, and you're saying that everything is all peachy for Squall and Rinoa now? I disagree with that too, but that's all right. :p
Well, since you're nice enough to respect my opinion, I'll do the same to you. I'm a die hard Squall/Rinoa fan, and I highly doubt that that will change anytime soon. But it doesn't hurt me to let you think what you want about their relationship, so I'll just tip my hat to you and get own with my business, and let you do the same. It's rather nice to see tolerant people in threads like these for a change. TTFN. :D
No, I meant the thing in general. When people dislike eachother, often times people tease them that they do.
And everything seemed pretty peachy for Rinoa and Squall. They had problems with the outside world, but not with eachother. John and Aeryn had some pretty intense fights, especially after she bring Scorpius on board. He even wants to forget her completly. It doesnt seem Squall and Rinoa will have those sorts of problems.
Ah, that makes more sense now.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
True, things are looking up for Squall and Rinoa. But just because he admitted his feelings for her doesn't mean everything will be all hunky dory from here on out. Hell, they were fighting again before they even left Edea's house!
Listen the love story between sqall and rinoa is definetly the most interesting but FF8 is more love story than any other and i like that. theres also the story of irvine and selphie and everyone growing up together and stuff but FF8 has one of the most unique story lines
I think it's obvious that Squall is hiding feelings, they hint that all throughout the game.
He gives the cold shoulder when someone asks him something personal, but when it comes to helping innocent people, or shows some type of effection, the team will respond with something like: "wow, I didn't expect to hear that from you" or "Is squall showing some affection?" or whatnot, and of course, he feels violated and retaliates with 'whatever'.
It's not Just towards Rinoa. At different parts he will go out of his way to save his friends. He puts up a defensive shield normally, and you're not really sure what he feels.
Most of the time when Rinoa pisses Squall off, it's because she's trying to 'break his shell'. Squall will not allow this. It would only take something serious for him to break free of it.
That's why, when he 'freaked out' all of the sudden, it was expected. What happens when Rinoa and Squall are united again, he goes back to his old self again. The game was trying to show that Squall actually feared showing his feelings.
I don't believe Squall ever hated her. You can tell when they got into a battle early on in the game and she ran away, all he thought about was what he did wrong.
I strongly believe there were subtle things in the plot hinting towards him liking her. It wasn't an out-of-the-blue thing to me. When I'm playing through this playthrough, I'll jolt down some of those subtleties and post them here.
I'm aware of the things that be construed as subtley, but I dont at all agree that they pointed to him liking her. I've played the game through many times, and it's never, not once, rang true for me. None of his behaviour has said to me that he cared for her, and none of it ever will it seems.
Very well. We got that point. We all understand your views on the matter, so there's no need to keep going on about it. I'm not trying to be rude (ok, maybe I am a little), but you've gotten a bit repetitive. We understand that you don't think that they were truly in love, and you probably never will. So let the thread move on to others, ok?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
Yeah you have a very good point here..Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
I'm not going on about it. I assume Yuki was arguing my points, because it has nothing to do with the thread topic. No less reptitive than the two of you arguing it. The thread topic is 'Does FFVII accurately depict love'. I'm no going to argue with anyone who says otherwise, but I will argue with people who continually insist to me that it's a subtle progression. That's directed at me, not the thread topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
People have too much opinions,& it leads them to repetitivity,then into fighting........
it sucks,dude.I just state the facts,that's what I'm here for.To tell you the truth,I'm afraid of opinions,I fear if people don't agree with me,they will dislike me or rant about & make me feel bad.I really don't believe in love myself,as nobody finds me interesting.Guys always have to bang the whore next door,I smurfING HATE IT.
But,it's a game.It's different for every one.
yes i agree that it does!Quote:
Originally Posted by yuripa
About as much as Romeo & Juliet does.
We already mentioned R & J. Pay attention.
Whoops. Sorry, I didn't mean to rubah the wrong way.
I rekon the love story in VIII is one of those 'you dont know how much you like something till its gone' sorta things. Like when i moved house. I hated my old house when i lived in it, but when i moved away, i was sad and wanted to go back....and i still miss my old place. I think its the same with Squall. He despised Rinoa but when she was 'KOed' and in a coma he realized it wasnt the same and he actually missed her...........I sort of have feeling that he might have gone to any lengths for any of the other characters had they been in comas...maybe not love but he still wouldve done all he could to sav them. A sense of duty maybe. Im probably talking out my arse but oh well :eek:
very good!
I think it does very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by yuripa
Not only talking about the Rinoa and Squall relationship.
The game potrays all kinds of love.
In fact, for me, the most important kind of love the game potrayed is the true friend's love.
I have friends, some of them just pals to have good times, and a few that really had shared my life in various aspects.
The Rinoa&Squall love is great, but the thing of the game that I'd love more to live was the opportunity to face great challenges with trusty poeple.
Challenges, problems and successes is what make people get together, emotionally talking.
That's why I feel possible the love between Rinoa and Squall. Just imagine to float in the space like that... and knowing that you are not alone... and then fight shoulder by shoulder to survive inside that spaceship. Damn... that is the kind of things that surely build bounds that never break. And if you feel attracted to the person you went along with, it easlily can be turned into real love, an epic love that is very strong itself by its unique history.
That's why I liked this game too much. Its a game charged with high emotional energy. When Quistis said... "I wonder if someone would do the same for me", when she finds Squall in the Ragnarok, I wanted to cry. Because that is true... that is what fights the awful universal feeling (and truth) that we are alone in this world.
Just imagine escaping a jail with your friends like they did in the desert, or take a trip in some wild salt flats in search of the unknown (like a picnic, Selphie said)... all the experiences like they live together are what make the life worths.
Thats a very good point Abraxas. Everyone has been looking at the Squall and Rinoa relationship, but there is much more love. There are many types of love, and everyone has been focusing on the bf/gf kinda love. But there is the bonding between all of the characters. All of them are friends, and that in itself is love. I know I love all of my friends, and I am sure everyone else loves their friends too. www.dictionary.com defines love as A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, recognition of attractive qualities, or a sense of underlying oneness." All the main characters share that love bond.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abraxas
Nice point Abraxas!
You just can't help yourself, can you Ashley. :tongue:
Hahaha....good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
I think that Squall and Rinoa loved one another as much as two teenagers can love one another. That's not to say it's not real love, it's just young love.