I told you this would happen!
Looks like I'll be spending alot less time online now.
smurf YOU AMERICA. Yeah, I hope you read that!
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I told you this would happen!
Looks like I'll be spending alot less time online now.
smurf YOU AMERICA. Yeah, I hope you read that!
Man its like a facist country right now.I have to watch what i say.Like i said a comment on bush at thise store and the next day the FBI is at my door step.
Now the internet.I mean wtf.they want to track our every move now......I know its for our safety but still if this is happening in the UK then please tell me because htis doesn't make any sense to me.
I think Bush is the next hitler.
What?Quote:
Originally Posted by lordblazer
.opt
well no bigy right now im on my step mom's VPN which is highly monitored lol.
YEAH RIGHT! They may want to do this but it really is not going to be feasible in any sense for about 4 years. The amount of data that would be gathered would cost insane amounts of money for any one to run and then the database that would store all of this information would be way to big to even be searchable with todays technology. I bet it would easily blow away the 16 exabyte limit of NTFS in a year.
Obviously, this won't be something like lordblazer pointed out--if we say something bad about the government, we won't be arrested. It's rampant stupidity and fear of luxury control like that that leads to more and more liberal policies. This would be used to monitor things that pop up--keywords, certain sites, etc.
I guess it would be too much to say "if you don't like it, don't use the internet."
Well if it will help catch scumbags, then I myself would gladly give up that right for them to do so. Do ever see how many missing and exploited childeren appear on those posters, pages and pages of them every year. It's quite depressing...
How easily could something like this be abused, and how easily can a politician "mistake" expression of opinion for something somehow relating to "terrorism"? It's a terrible idea but the fact that it's being considered doesn't particularily surprise me. We, as a people, seem to have chosen a false sense of security over our rights.
If everyone uses "It doesn't harm me, so I don't care" logic except those who are affected, it turns into a slippery slope, and soon no one will have any rights left at all. A much better criterion to use is whether the amount of power being exercised is reasonable for the benefits its use will bring about, and in this case the benefits are miniscule compared to the amount of privacy we would have to give up if this were enacted. I'd rather some people *not* know about my porn downloads kthxdie.Quote:
Originally Posted by noname
very easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Behold the Void
Eh I dont understand your logic either. People have so many rights. I would be willing to give up my right to let crime investorgators look into solving crimes. Why would I be against it, if I am not doing anything wrong?Quote:
If everyone uses "It doesn't harm me, so I don't care" logic except those who are affected, it turns into a slippery slope, and soon no one will have any rights left at all. A much better criterion to use is whether the amount of power being exercised is reasonable for the benefits its use will bring about, and in this case the benefits are miniscule compared to the amount of privacy we would have to give up if this were enacted. I'd rather some people *not* know about my porn downloads kthxdie.
And what is it you have to hide about your porn downloads?
Quote:
Child protection advocates say that this process can lead police to dead ends if they don't move quickly enough and log files are discarded automatically. Also, many Internet service providers don't record information about instant-messaging conversations or Web sites visited--data that would prove vital to an investigation.
For our safety?!!? hahaha:lol:hahahaQuote:
I know its for our safety
It's not for OUR safety, it's to give THEM more power.
I'm sure thats what they said in Germany too. This is just one step closer to autocracy, and it's one step that I am not willing to take.Quote:
Obviously, this won't be something like lordblazer pointed out--if we say something bad about the government, we won't be arrested.
It's better to have a thousand scumbags roaming the streets than for us to have less rights.Quote:
Well if it will help catch scumbags, then I myself would gladly give up that right for them to do so
I once knew a woman who grew up in Poland, when it was occupied by the U.S.S.R. She said that in America today, the government has more control over us than the Soviets ever did over Poland.
So that makes you more self-fish then selfless? People and thier rights... People take them for granted.Quote:
It's better to have a thousand scumbags roaming the streets than for us to have less rights.
Actually, I am thinking about the rights of EVERYONE, not just myself. Although, I couldn't care less if people like you lost you're rights, as you don't seem to value them much.Quote:
So that makes you more self-fish then selfless? You and your rights...
Edit: I see you edited your post.Yeah, people take them for granted. People like you.Quote:
You and your rights... People take them for granted.
My point is that this proposal virtually annihilates our privacy on the Internet, and that's a big right to take away. Ok, it might help the government solve a few crimes, but are a few crimes worth it to COMPLETELY ANNIHILATE people's privacy on the Internet? Not to mention that logging everything that happens would create a security nightmare. Enterprising hackers will be cracking people's passwords (and shortly thereafter, bank accounts) almost immediately if this passes, don't you doubt it. Never mind that it's illegal and they'll be traced, they'll do it regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by noname
The cost is too great for the meager benefits it gives us. And the slippery slope argument *is* valid, because government continually strives to create more power for itself. That's the way the world tends to work.
ok i'm going to bed now
Agreed partly. Just, the people would'nt give a damn about what you do online, they're just looking for child molestors/exploiters. As said in the article. People are just so hung up on there rights, they dont even take into consideration the right of someone else who wants to find out where their missing loved one is, or solve a unsolved crime that a family wants resolved. But no, that's just asking to much of people to give up their lousy rights. It's okay they're selfish, they can keep their rights.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
It's okay that you're misguided, and I will keep my rights, thank you very much.Quote:
It's okay your selfish, keep your rights.
No, you're the one that is misguided, mis-quoting me, and miss understanding me. This agruement has expired, and is petty.Quote:
Originally Posted by nik0tine
Although I'm not misquoting you, and I don't think I'm misunderstanding you, I will agree that this is petty. And for that, I apologize.
so emmm what happened then?
To some extent, it could also take away our freedom of expression. People could be praising or maybe even joking about 9/11 through an IM service. The government could mistake this for teh terrareest tawk and, God forbid, arrest them. Our government's been known for corruption before, is there really anything stopping our government now?
And if they really wanted to use people's information to find kids, they could just use the rights enacted by Megan's law, which makes the addresses of criminals(or is it just child molestors? I forget) public to their respective communities.
I think it's great.
I don't believe that for a second, and that's probably the main reason I object to this proposal.Quote:
Originally Posted by noname
so pretty much you'll assume the positiion and take it lol.But seriouslyQuote:
Originally Posted by noname
wat if people start getting arested for speaking out against bush in the future?yeah,
Yeah. That'll happen. Because the U.S. government arrests anybody that speaks out against it.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordblazer
no, thye just call us traitors.
evidently you didn't hear about the beautiful antics at the 2004 Republican National Convention.
My high school recently made immigrants take this survey telling where they're from and whatnot(me included) and the only thing they said was that it was for the government. I don't think much of it, but it seems pretty weird.
It'll be cameras and Room 101 next.
heh...room 101. Dear God don't remind me.
Noname, there is a country called Arginia.
In the late 1950s it was decided that the crime rate was far too high
and drastic actions needed to be taken. Numerous types of weapons
were banned in order to combat the homicides which had been taking
place for years all over the country. Soon the only people with weapons
were the police and the criminals who had their weapons illegally. The
police were overmanned by the criminals in the country and the crime
rate skyrocketed. More drastic measures were needed. In the following
years numerous recording devices, microphones and video cameras,
were installed in places around the big cities where the most crime too
place.
The people trusted their government to protect them and they decided
that their lives and their safety was worth far more than their privacy in
the big cities. Soon the criminals got smarter and crime, though still in
large cities, spread and took over smaller towns all over the country.
More recording devices were installed before the government decided
that the criminals were, far too often, seeking refuge inside of buildings
and communicating with the use of telephones rather than in person.
Recording devices were then installed in many buildings, and soon in
some of the houses where the crime rate was highest and telephones
were tapped by phone companies in compliance with the new laws
passed requiring them to do so. The people believed if they had nothing
to hide, they had no reason to be against this move. It was for their
own good. Besides, the flow of information was so great that nobody
would give a crap if they talked to their sister on the phone about
getting their hair done or other small talk.
The crime problem was still that--a problem--but it was
under control now. The police had more time on their hands to help
the people instead of having to focus only on putting away the bad
guys. However, there was a growing amount of concern now that life
was relatively safe about the people's freedoms. Some people believed
that now that crime had been fixed there was no need for the recording
devices, large number of police, and random searches and raids taking
place. However, many of the people who did not support the measures
which had been taken in the past to combat the crime turned out to
be criminals themselves, involved in drugs and conspiracy. Many were
arrested and the movement for more privacy was stomped out and
dismissed as being only the evil ideas of criminals.
The people were still relatively happy for nearly 20 years until suddenly
there was another movement in Arginia for more privacy. This time far
larger than the previous movement. Tensions escalated and the movment
boardered on revolution. However, the police were organized and, though
troublesome, the revolters were put down since they were unable to
put up a true fight with the tiny amount of weapons that they could
get their hands on. More precautions by the government were taken to
make sure that no such revolution would take place again. The rebels
were painted as evil and unpatriotic.
Arginia now has one of the worst ratings for living conditions, above
only North Korea and Uzbekistan. Any disagreement with the once
democratic--but now monarchic--government is considered treason and
huge prisons hold political prisoners for a number of years. Of course
most prisoners will not survive the first year.
Arginia does not exist, but this example has happened hundreds of times
throughout history. The message: read 1984.
I doubt anyone will read this but it was fun to type. :p
.opt
It was an interesting (I was going to say fun, but I decided it wouldn't be appropriate :D) read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Optium
How far is too far with our current government? They've already taken away a number of rights in the name of "truth and justice."
And just as I (and most other people with common sense) predicted, Big Business is already rushing to take advantage of the new ruling. What a crock of :skull::skull::skull::skull:.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-Benjamin Franklin
My sentiments exactly.
Many people in the Revolutionary War died so that you could have those rights, and people would just throw them away so that they wouldn't die themselves. It's an insult to the dead.
It's not just an insult to the dead, it's an insult to America. It's an insult to freedom, and to the free world.
>>> This is horrible.. they did the same where I live..
whats with the governments going all paranoid about child porn, terrorism and internet?
smurf them :mad2:
This is one of the few profoundly moral posts I have read on this forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by nik0tine
I'll add - and also to human existence.
tat is smurfing wrong!
i hope it fails they shouldnt monitor everyones every word takes away freedom of speech
and freedom and privacy online
After the government steals your home and builds a Walmart on it, you'll be happy to be in prison because the government was spying on your internet chats and decided to imprison you without cause on suspicion of terrorism. At least you get food, drink and shelter in prison. That is, unless you get sent to one of those prisons where less than humane activities are encouraged for information gathering purposes, out of sight of human rights inspectors. In that case, you're pretty much screwed. God bless the land of the free.
I say we find out what words their programs specifically search for, and every1 on the internet sends 20 emails to every1 else with those exact words, and we overload their machines with too many hits.
well walmart is aobut ot go under since they dont give a F about customer service and refuse to have unions workf or them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garland
None of these recent actions are particularly bad in and of themselves. Monitoring the internet to crack down on child porn and terrorism wouldn't terribly bother me - I have nothing to hide. Overpowering the Eminent Domain statutes so that any commercial entity can take your property w/o reason sounds very bad but in practice might not amount to much. The authority of law enforcement to arrest people indefinitely w/o due process as material witnesses would be a necessary evil if it were the only new problem. The torture camps where captured terrorists are held also wouldn't raise too many eyebrows alone. It's that all of these things are happenning in such rapid succession that leaves me worried. What sort of nation are we becoming?
The thing with not caring about this because it doesn't personally effect you. Let's just point this out.
Something comes down that doesn't effect you. You don't do anything about it because it doesn't effect you. Basic rights are taken away for your "safety".
Later something else comes down that doesn't effect you. You don't do anything about it because it doesn't effect you. Basic rights are taken away for your "safety".
Now, something comes down that does effect you. You do everything you can but it still happens. Basic rights are taken away for "safety" because even though you did all YOU could, too many other people didn't do anything about it because it didn't effect them.
If everybody ignores most things because it's not directly involved with them than our rights will slowly be taken away one by one because not enough people care about each individual issue. I would like to think that wouldn't happen, but it's already too late. All we can do is wait and see how far it goes.
Yeah which is basicly why poeple hate america.WE don't do much we can't really the gov. makes sure we ar esplit apart like this and so isolationist that basicly we can jsut let the gov. do whatever it wants heck the white house is basicly gonna have complete control over the other two branches pretty soon as it looks.It may not be tru ebut hey Just an observation.Quote:
Originally Posted by theundeadhero
Quote:
Originally Posted by theundeadhero
Or you could look at it this way: Something comes along that doesn't affect you, so you do nothing. Basic rights are taken away for your "safety"
Then, something comes along that DOES affect you, but you can't do anything about it because your rights got taken away earlier, all in the name of "safety".
lol man htis crap is so true well let us smar tpeople on a interenet chat board who speaks out shrink in population we might end up in jail lol.