Is this legal?!? (warning... kinda adult discussion)

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06-27-2005, 10:24 AM
udsuna

Is this legal?!? (warning... kinda adult discussion)

I've got a hypothetical situation for you guys that someone might actually know the answer to.

Say you made an amature porno of yourself and someone else, when you're a minor, like... 16, yeah... and your partner is over 18. Well, if you put said video in storage, and end up uncovering it years later, when you're an adult, are you in possession of child pornography (in legal-ese, "recording the sex act of a minor")? And can you be charged with possessing such a thing, and prosecuted, despite the fact that it is YOU whom were the minor, you who filmed it, and you who was more than happy to participate in the first place?

I don't know if it's legal or not... I do know, if I was in a hypothetical trial for said hypothetical crime, I'd ask for a jury. Legal or not, who'd actually convict someone for something like that?
06-27-2005, 10:27 AM
Shlup

Uhm, uhm, uhm...
06-27-2005, 10:30 AM
Big D

Since "you" are in the video (as the minor), this would make "you" the victim, not the guilty party. However, "your" partner would be in strife.

Best solution: "You" should either keep the document very well hidden, or else destroy it.

Or better yet, create an all-new, all-legal version, now that "you're" old enough to do so.
06-27-2005, 10:47 AM
udsuna

Hmm... methinks you did a little overkill on the quotations to point out a relatively minor grammar issue. Especially as it's one that only matters in formal writing, and is generally a non-issue in conversational dialogue.
06-27-2005, 10:48 AM
Devourment

How can you be in possesion of child pornography if you are in it? :confused: It's only if it's someone else.
06-27-2005, 10:50 AM
Big D

Quote:

Originally Posted by udsuna

Hmm... methinks you did a little overkill on the quotations to point out a relatively minor grammar issue. Especially as it's one that only matters in formal writing, and is generally a non-issue in conversational dialogue.

I used the quotation marks because I was talking about a hypothetical "you", not literally you. You said it was a hypothetical scenario; I was being consistent with that.

The only way I could see someone getting convicted for an act like that would be if they showed the recording to other people. But it'd still be safer to destroy it, because it could cause problems for the actual offender, namely the one who was over 18 at the time it was recorded. I use 'offender' in the sense of one who committed a criminal act, not as an indication of moral judgment.
06-27-2005, 10:52 AM
udsuna

Quote:

Originally Posted by TisWas

How can you be in possesion of child pornography if you are in it? :confused: It's only if it's someone else.

Nope, like I said, according to law, it just requires a "sex act involving a minor". Nothing in the definition makes exceptions based upon the minor's willingness to participate, or for that matter, who can't be prosecuted if possessing.

Oh, so it was an overkill play-along hypothetical "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" thing. I thought you were mocking my use of second-tense, instead of first or third, which is a BIG no-no when dealing with grammar. We could also get a "big no-no" by breeding you with boris. Which is probably also illegal.
06-27-2005, 10:56 AM
Peegee

"Your" 18 year old partner, assuming "he" were alive at the time of discovery of evidence would be guilty of sexual contact with a minor.

That is...if "you" were disgusting and sick enough to charge him. Pervert.

Just like Big D said. Though I'm not sure if he said anything about the partner being charged with being in pedo porn. Would he? Probably.
06-27-2005, 10:57 AM
Big D

Quote:

Originally Posted by udsuna

Nope, like I said, according to law, it just requires a "sex act involving a minor". Nothing in the definition makes exceptions based upon the minor's willingness to participate

That's because minors are legally presumed incapable of giving informed consent to acts like this. It's the same reason we have an 'age of consent'.

Without actually examining the statute in question, it'd be hard to give a legally sound answer to this question. But by using the harm principle and the normal victim/offender situation, I'd say it's perfectly legal. Even though the legislation might say that anyone is guilty, a certain degree of interpretation is required. The reason it might say 'anyone is guilty' is because it is intended to apply to anyone who has such a recording - on the basis that it is harmful for them to do so. Arguably, by possessing a recording of themselves, a person is not causing harm to anyone else, or benefitting from another's harm.[q=udsuna]We could also get a "big no-no" by breeding you with boris. Which is probably also illegal.
[/q]She's 19, I'm 21, so in theory it's legal, but in reality it's so unlikely as to be not worth considering.
06-27-2005, 11:01 AM
udsuna

To add to the "hypotheticals"... let's just say the girl is protected from statutory rape charges by statute of limitations laws (which is 5 years here, assuming the minor is over 14 years old), and doesn't have a copy of the film.
06-27-2005, 11:05 AM
Big D

Statute of limitations applies to criminal offences of that kind? I thought it was only for civil suits and minor crimes...

In that case, it's probably even "safer" to own a copy. Still not advisable, though there's less chance of anyone getting jailed for it. You couldn't be convicted for possessing it, but I'm pretty sure you'd have to surrender it if the authorities asked.
06-27-2005, 11:10 AM
Ravenmorghane

er i thought the legal age for consenting sex was 16??? if the minor was 16 its legal isnt it? or maybe im being blonde again but never mind

destroying the tape would be a good idea unless the minor wanted to use it to convict the other party (the 18 yr old) muahahaha
06-27-2005, 11:12 AM
Big D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenmorghane

er i thought the legal age for consenting sex was 16??? if the minor was 16 its legal isnt it? or maybe im being blonde again but never mind

In some US states, if one person's over 18 then they both have to be, or else it's statutory rape. The legal age for appearing in a pronographic publication is undoubtedly 18.
06-27-2005, 11:13 AM
udsuna

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big D

Statute of limitations applies to criminal offences of that kind? I thought it was only for civil suits and minor crimes...

Actually, yes, there are statute of limitation laws on almost every crime, at least in the U.S.

Espionage against the government and murder are the only crimes that I know of that lack statute laws. For rape, I think it's 20, and same for child molestation (aka, sex act with someone under 14). Statutory rape (sex act with a minor over 14 who was consenting) is just a 5 year statutory.

As for filming a sex act with a minor, only the minor did the filming, and whatever the limitations on that, it's moot as the tape would still be in someone's possession, and the charge would be for possessing the film. Statute does not apply.
06-27-2005, 11:22 AM
SomethingBig

Oh God, this really isn't hypothetical, is it? :weep:
06-27-2005, 11:26 AM
Big D

Quote:

Originally Posted by udsuna

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big D

Statute of limitations applies to criminal offences of that kind? I thought it was only for civil suits and minor crimes...

Actually, yes, there are statute of limitation laws on almost every crime, at least in the U.S.

Espionage against the government and murder are the only crimes that I know of that lack statute laws. For rape, I think it's 20, and same for child molestation (aka, sex act with someone under 14). Statutory rape (sex act with a minor over 14 who was consenting) is just a 5 year statutory.

As for filming a sex act with a minor, only the minor did the filming, and whatever the limitations on that, it's moot as the tape would still be in someone's possession, and the charge would be for possessing the film. Statute does not apply.

Considering these new details... it looks like the other party is completely safe. The only issue is whether "you" are at risk of prosecution. I can't see how this action is fulfilling the harm principle, so I don't see that "you" have done anything prosecutable. However, since the document is of a forbidden kind, you would have to hand it to the authorities, or destroy it, if they asked you to. You could probably be prosecuted for failing to do so.

Still, it'd be hard to answer this question reliably without being able to see a copy of the statute, and the relevant case law.
06-27-2005, 11:37 AM
udsuna

I'd still demand a jury trial. AND press coverage... that way, even if convicted, one could reasonably expect to make a lot of money just for the amusement and shock value.

I'm just wondering what someone would do with a case like that. I was hoping someone would know enough legal-ese to wager a more or less accurate diagnosis. Everyone else shielded, of course, I'm just wondering about the "victem/perpetrator" who is technically in violation of some pretty serious felonies.
06-27-2005, 11:40 AM
Big D

Quote:

Originally Posted by udsuna

I'd still demand a jury trial. AND press coverage... that way, even if convicted, one could reasonably expect to make a lot of money just for the amusement and shock value.

Unless, of course, the press decided to portray your actions in a negative light:

"Shock! Man tapes own under-age sexcapades then keeps the video - featuring himself and his 18-year-old statutory RAPIST - for his own perverse gratification!"

They could so twist this into something life-destroying. It's what the news media do best - manipulating information in the way that'll create the biggest sensation and snare the most viewers. It has nothing to do with facts or truth, especially where legal matters are concerned.
06-27-2005, 11:43 AM
udsuna

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big D

"Shock! Man tapes own under-age sexcapades then keeps the video - featuring himself and his 18-year-old statutory RAPIST - for his own perverse gratification!".

And half of the country would secretly think to themselves "that is so awsome, I wish I'd thought of it".
06-27-2005, 11:45 AM
Big D

Semi-philosophical question: would that act be kind of auto-erotic?
06-27-2005, 11:49 AM
nik0tine

If you were a minor, and filmed a pornographic video of yourself, and then sold it, would that be illegal? (Assuming you were still a minor when the selling took place)
06-27-2005, 11:49 AM
udsuna

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big D

Semi-philosophical question: would that act be kind of auto-erotic?

I dunno... probably not any more or less so than all the other filmed sex tapes produced by legal adults. A pluck at both the voyeur and exhibitionist parts of the sexual psyche, while remaining "safe" enough that the slightly less bold people can comfortably participate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik0tine

If you were a minor, and filmed a pornographic video of yourself, and then sold it, would that be illegal? (Assuming you were still a minor when the selling took place)

Hmm... I don't know... at least for the minor. As for the purchaser of the video... the word "boned" comes to mind.
06-27-2005, 11:52 AM
Big D

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik0tine

If you were a minor, and filmed a pornographic video of yourself, and then sold it, would that be illegal? (Assuming you were still a minor when the selling took place)

Yes, because you're dealing.
06-27-2005, 12:18 PM
Ultima Shadow

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomethingBig

Oh God, this really isn't hypothetical, is it? :weep:
06-27-2005, 12:27 PM
udsuna

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomethingBig

Oh God, this really isn't hypothetical, is it? :weep:

Actually, in all honesty, it is hypothetical. But it was almost real. The only thing missing is the filming itself. And the girl involved was 21, not 18, and I was indeed 16 (oops... I guess I was molested or something, not that I'm complaining). I was intent on filming at least once, but never got the chance.

And, for some reason, recently I thought about it and this question popped up.
06-27-2005, 02:00 PM
Hawkeye

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShlupQuack

Uhm, uhm, uhm...

My exact thoughts
06-27-2005, 02:05 PM
Social Moon Firesky

Quote:

Originally Posted by udsuna

I've got a hypothetical situation for you guys that someone might actually know the answer to.

Say you made an amature porno of yourself and someone else, when you're a minor, like... 16, yeah... and your partner is over 18. Well, if you put said video in storage, and end up uncovering it years later, when you're an adult, are you in possession of child pornography (in legal-ese, "recording the sex act of a minor")? And can you be charged with possessing such a thing, and prosecuted, despite the fact that it is YOU whom were the minor, you who filmed it, and you who was more than happy to participate in the first place?

I don't know if it's legal or not... I do know, if I was in a hypothetical trial for said hypothetical crime, I'd ask for a jury. Legal or not, who'd actually convict someone for something like that?

Come live in the UK with me! I wouldn't mind at all! :D Sex is legal at 16 over here, so it wouldn't be considered paedophilia. Or you could just run the tape over with your car, then burn it, then spread the ashes all over the world.
06-27-2005, 02:06 PM
Shin Gouken

take it from me. destroy it
06-27-2005, 02:07 PM
Hawkeye

Quote:

Originally Posted by Social Moon Firesky

Quote:

Originally Posted by udsuna

I've got a hypothetical situation for you guys that someone might actually know the answer to.

Say you made an amature porno of yourself and someone else, when you're a minor, like... 16, yeah... and your partner is over 18. Well, if you put said video in storage, and end up uncovering it years later, when you're an adult, are you in possession of child pornography (in legal-ese, "recording the sex act of a minor")? And can you be charged with possessing such a thing, and prosecuted, despite the fact that it is YOU whom were the minor, you who filmed it, and you who was more than happy to participate in the first place?

I don't know if it's legal or not... I do know, if I was in a hypothetical trial for said hypothetical crime, I'd ask for a jury. Legal or not, who'd actually convict someone for something like that?

Come live in the UK with me! I wouldn't mind at all! :D Sex is legal at 16 over here, so it wouldn't be considered paedophilia. Or you could just run the tape over with your car, then burn it, then spread the ashes all over the world.

Nah nah... It's probably another one of those wierd British laws, where you can have sex at 16, but can't watch porn at 18... I'll never understand you Brits.

Bout that time eh chap?
06-27-2005, 02:09 PM
Social Moon Firesky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Nah nah... It's probably another one of those wierd British laws, where you can have sex at 16, but can't watch porn at 18... I'll never understand you Brits.

Bout that time eh chap?

No, in Britain you can watch porn at whatever age, but you can't legally participate in one until you're 16.
06-27-2005, 02:11 PM
Hawkeye

Quote:

Originally Posted by Social Moon Firesky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Nah nah... It's probably another one of those wierd British laws, where you can have sex at 16, but can't watch porn at 18... I'll never understand you Brits.

Bout that time eh chap?

No, in Britain you can watch porn at whatever age, but you can't legally participate in one until you're 16.

That's it; I'm moving to Britian
06-27-2005, 02:11 PM
Shin Gouken

Quote:

Originally Posted by Social Moon Firesky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Nah nah... It's probably another one of those wierd British laws, where you can have sex at 16, but can't watch porn at 18... I'll never understand you Brits.

Bout that time eh chap?

No, in Britain you can watch porn at whatever age, but you can't legally participate in one until you're 16.

you have to be 18 before you can be secretley be photographed naked too
06-27-2005, 02:16 PM
liamo

bloody hell
06-27-2005, 02:30 PM
Social Moon Firesky

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinangel2292

you have to be 18 before you can be secretly photographed naked too

How can that be true? If you don't know you're being photographed, then age doesn't matter...I dunno, I've never been photographed naked before, unless you count baby photos.
06-27-2005, 04:42 PM
omnitarian

Quote:

Originally Posted by udsuna

(oops... I guess I was molested or something, not that I'm complaining).

This is the greatest thing ever posted.
06-27-2005, 06:23 PM
DMKA

What if you have naked baby pictures and then your parents die when you're like 50 and then you get all their stuff and you end up with those pictures? Can you get thrown in jail for child porn?
06-28-2005, 01:14 AM
Big D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Social Moon Firesky

No, in Britain you can watch porn at whatever age, but you can't legally participate in one until you're 16.

It's illegal for it to be shown to, or viewed by, anyone under 18.
06-28-2005, 01:22 AM
Raistlin

This thread gets one big "xD" from me.
06-28-2005, 01:26 AM
Big D

One big xD?
06-28-2005, 01:30 AM
Ultima Shadow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big D

One big xD?

XD! :D
06-28-2005, 02:16 AM
Raistlin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big D

One big xD?

Yes, I gave you to this thread. I didn't want you anymore.
06-28-2005, 09:09 AM
udsuna

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raistlin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big D

One big xD?

Yes, I gave you to this thread. I didn't want you anymore.

That's ok, I'll take him. I was already plotting to breed him with boris and make a "big no-no"...

Quote:

Originally Posted by omnitarian

Quote:

Originally Posted by udsuna

(oops... I guess I was molested or something, not that I'm complaining).

This is the greatest thing ever posted.

Another now recognizes my greatness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Social Moon Firesky

Come live in the UK with me! I wouldn't mind at all! :D Sex is legal at 16 over here, so it wouldn't be considered paedophilia.

Miss Firesky, be careful... I might just take you up on your offer. After you're 16, of course ;)
06-28-2005, 11:22 AM
Social Moon Firesky

Quote:

Originally Posted by udsuna

Quote:

Originally Posted by Social Moon Firesky

Come live in the UK with me! I wouldn't mind at all! :D Sex is legal at 16 over here, so it wouldn't be considered paedophilia.

Miss Firesky, be careful... I might just take you up on your offer. After you're 16, of course ;)

TEH YAYNESS! :love:

Big D - I never knew that! But if that's the case, then there are millions of people breaking the law now, by watching porn underage. And how can people find out? Why's it illegal anyway? Pfeh, it just doesn't make sense...
06-28-2005, 05:30 PM
udsuna

Well, watching porn under age isn't frowned upon too badly. Even having sex underage is hardly considered that bad. But, for some reason, possessing a film of underage individuals having sex is a good way to spend the next 20 years cuddling with Big Bubba.

Anyways *start packing in preparation of moving to my new home*. Oh, crap... uh, I don't have a passport, and am very afraid of heights... this'll take a while.
06-28-2005, 09:28 PM
ali b

The UK does have some pretty weird laws. At 16 you can get married, have kids and buy a house but you can't drive til you're 17. And you can't drink alcohol til you're 18 (in public anyway, unless you look older than you really are). ;)

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