I,m sick of Bush,Blair and co

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07-10-2005, 05:13 AM
aeris2001x2

I,m sick of Bush,Blair and co

I,m just ranting here. Expect beautiful incoherence and overzealous analysis.

Too my dismay, my night out in Britain's Second biggest city was halted. Now i can,t even indulge in drug induced oblivion without them Politicians getting in the way...ok obviously i,m being silly now.

But seriously, Its my belief that these civilian deaths in London, Spain, New York would not have come about without the wests ridiculous Middle East policy. The bombers are scum, but so are bush and blair and their cronies imho. And think of all the civilians killed in Iraq etc...by accident, and by bombs. And all the soldiers giving up their lives for a hollow cause.

Just think of all the kids left orpaned in Iraq who will grow up to become future West hating terriosts?

And considering their would never have been a 9/11 if the US had not created Osama Bin Laden...and then took sides in the middle east situation...

And Iraq...they again put Saddam in power. And he was no threat...otherwise they would not have invaded. Even if he had nukes...last time i checked the US by far the biggest stock pile of Nukes. If he had them, he either would have used them in his last defense...or sneaked them out of Iraq...probably to later fall into terriost hands.

If North Korea , Syria, Iran do have nukes...they will not be touched by the US. Bush will not risk geniune nuclear war. he knows no *rogue* state would dare launch a nuke at them...it would mean instant nuclear reprisals. Saddam for instance was only interested in keeping power.

Why have none of the many many other rogue states not been destroyed? because its not in wests interest. Sharon of Israel is laughing thanks to Bush aid. What is Blair doing with the Colonel of Libya? Why was NOTHING done to help Sudan?

The worlds a mess right now and i,m sick of innocents dieing and innocents being transformed into murderers...the terriosts, the soldiers, even bush and blair...the innocence destroyed by death or broken homes, religious or political indocrination, drug abuse, poverty...

when will this nightmare that has swallowed the earth ever end? I know when...only when the Four Horsemen descend upon us in the ever approaching Apocalypse...
07-10-2005, 09:41 AM
thinking of names is hard

I don't know why but that made me laugh...

Put it this way...without Tony Blair and George Bush, we would have no classic programmes on TV like 2dtv...
07-10-2005, 10:39 AM
Shoden

two-right lol

Blair is just a puppet to a brainless idiot
07-10-2005, 11:19 AM
Old Manus

I,m agreeing with you on some parts.
07-10-2005, 12:19 PM
Dr.K

Sensible stuff I'd say. It's the cycle of suffering, hate and subsequent retaliation that's making the 'war on terror' so unproductive. If Zimbabwe had oil, the coalition would have got their backsides into that country long ago.
07-10-2005, 12:26 PM
War Angel

Times are indeed dire, when a victim believes he deserves the punishment.

People were killed because radical Islamic organisations (namely Al Qa'eda) wanted them dead, for no reason other than them not being Muslims. If you share the belief many Europeans do, that you deserve all you get, well... then that sucks. Big time. I sure hope some sensible people start to act inspite of the passiveness and acceptance of violence against them, in the mainstream.

Innocents do not deserve to die. British people did not die because of the situation in Iraq, Israel, or any other place\person in the world. They died for the sole reason they were not Muslims (and even further - heretics, in the eyes of the murderers), and that there are people out there that kill for such a reason. Please get that into your head. Thank you.
07-10-2005, 12:53 PM
Dr.K

Quote:

Originally Posted by War Angel

People were killed because radical Islamic organisations (namely Al Qa'eda) wanted them dead, for no reason other than them not being Muslims.

This is arguable. Personally I'd put it down to the huge amount of civilian deaths and the scandal over POW's in Iraq, among other related reasons. The majority of these Islamic militants are not simply bombing western countries because they think the whole world should convert to Islam (although a minority do), they are doing so because they have warned the west over and over that if they keep shedding the blood of Arabs in Iraq, then there is nothing left to do but fight back. In many ways when it boils down to it, it's quite similar to the conflict with the I.R.A. over the past few decades. British troops were in a country interfering with an affair that didn't directly concern them, they 'accidentally' kill some civilians, create internment laws which allows anyone seemingly suspicious to be held without charge for up to a year and refuse to 'negotiate with terrorists' over a peaceful resolution. Things like this only lead to chaos. After the internment laws were passed, I.R.A. recruitment went up three-fold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by War Angel

Innocents do not deserve to die.

Exactly right. Just like the large numbers of innocent citizens of Iraq didn't deserve to die either.
07-10-2005, 12:54 PM
DMKA

Quote:

Originally Posted by War Angel

People were killed because radical Islamic organisations (namely Al Qa'eda) wanted them dead, for no reason other than them not being Muslims.

Wow...I hope that was sarcasm. Otherwise...xD

Despite what (rediculous and false ideas) people believe, it doesn't change the fact of whats happening now...and that's nothing but alot of innocent people dying and alot of money being wasted. I don't think the "soldiers" are any better than the "terrorist" at the moment.

But I'm done with politics...you can all go ahead and kill each other and I'll just go about my life trying to ignore it, because when I did care it just backfired on me, so now I don't. :)
07-10-2005, 01:29 PM
nik0tine

Quote:

Innocents do not deserve to die. British people did not die because of the situation in Iraq, Israel, or any other place\person in the world.

Had Iraq never happened, I seriously doubt that the London bombings would have ever taken place. It isn't the "direct" cause, that is obvious. But, if Bush hadn't stirred up the hornets nest the number of terrorist acts would be much, much less.
07-10-2005, 01:59 PM
Madame Adequate

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik0tine

Quote:

Innocents do not deserve to die. British people did not die because of the situation in Iraq, Israel, or any other place\person in the world.

Had Iraq never happened, I seriously doubt that the London bombings would have ever taken place. It isn't the "direct" cause, that is obvious. But, if Bush hadn't stirred up the hornets nest the number of terrorist acts would be much, much less.

You are aware that Britain was listed as a major Al-Qaeda target after 9/11, by Al-Qaeda, and that we've been threatened by them many times both before and after Iraq? I'm just surprised we went as long as we did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeris2001x2

But seriously, Its my belief that these civilian deaths in London, Spain, New York would not have come about without the wests ridiculous Middle East policy. The bombers are scum, but so are bush and blair and their cronies imho. And think of all the civilians killed in Iraq etc...by accident, and by bombs. And all the soldiers giving up their lives for a hollow cause.

Well, I daresay that if Europe had handled the Middle East and Africa better in the past, that we would be better off right now. And if the US and UK hadn't gone around interfering in the Middle East in the Cold War, again things would be better. On the other hand, there was a Cold War to win, and that took priority over everything else, but definintely over some unimaginable future.

Quote:

Just think of all the kids left orpaned in Iraq who will grow up to become future West hating terriosts?

Sorry, but we're not the only ones at fault there. Turning into a terrorist because you have suffered is no more justified than a westerner turning into a murderer because he saw his parents killed. Understandable, maybe, justifiable, no. Productive, no, I'll add.

Quote:

And considering their would never have been a 9/11 if the US had not created Osama Bin Laden...and then took sides in the middle east situation...

Again, Cold War people. It's nice and easy to sit back now and say 'It's our fault for creating/supporting such-and-such', but it disregards the situation at the time entirely.

Quote:

And Iraq...they again put Saddam in power. And he was no threat...otherwise they would not have invaded. Even if he had nukes...last time i checked the US by far the biggest stock pile of Nukes. If he had them, he either would have used them in his last defense...or sneaked them out of Iraq...probably to later fall into terriost hands.

We didn't have anything to do with Saddam coming to power, he got there all by himself. Secondly, intelligence showed he had WMD, the people in Iraq and neighboring countries knew damn well he had WMD at one point and would really rather the chance wasn't taken, and finally Saddam himself was quite happy to make it look like he had WMD.

Quote:

If North Korea , Syria, Iran do have nukes...they will not be touched by the US. Bush will not risk geniune nuclear war. he knows no *rogue* state would dare launch a nuke at them...it would mean instant nuclear reprisals. Saddam for instance was only interested in keeping power.

Quite probably true. But none of them are known to have the capacity to reach the US. Although NK can fire missiles that would hit Japan. But at any rate, that's why we're trying to get other people to listen to us. If we needed an example of Saddam to do so, well, so be it.

Quote:

1)Why have none of the many many other rogue states not been destroyed? because its not in wests interest.2) Sharon of Israel is laughing thanks to Bush aid.3) What is Blair doing with the Colonel of Libya?4) Why was NOTHING done to help Sudan?

1) Because we don't just go into places, take out the regime, and leave. Especially not where there are no systems in place to elect new leaders. We go in and take them out, then as you can see in Iraq we try to build the country up so that it can stand on it's own, instead of letting it degenerate into civil war. The west's interests have little to do with it, we just don't have the manpower to take on a dozen rogue states at once.

2) I daresay he is, but the simple solution is to stop Palestinian aggression. Then Israel has zero grounds for any aggressive acts of their own, there's no self-defense claims, and the US and UK will be under a lot more pressure to listen to Palestine. As it is, Israel is one of the few places aid has gone to good use, and she's been able to hold back a number of offensives by nearby states.

3) Gaddafi seems like he's bucking up his act. Far from perfect, but no longer near the top of the list. See, he saw what happened to Saddam and realized a few changes could keep him in power.

4) Because the UN won't do anything about it, and anytime a nation takes so-called unilateral (Ie not sanctioned by the UN) action they have to spend the next half-decade listening to crap about it.

Quote:

The worlds a mess right now and i,m sick of innocents dieing and innocents being transformed into murderers...the terriosts, the soldiers, even bush and blair...the innocence destroyed by death or broken homes, religious or political indocrination, drug abuse, poverty...

when will this nightmare that has swallowed the earth ever end? I know when...only when the Four Horsemen descend upon us in the ever approaching Apocalypse...

I like the way you think the world is worse off now than ever before. Fact is, it's better. There's no imminent threat of MAD, there's terrorism but it's not actually likely to kill you or anything, medical science is getting better and better - heck all fields of science are movnig along nicely - global communications are a reality, heck we've even got space flight. Ok, it's bad that many people are starving, but at least some places are making progress. We're doing better now than we ever have before, and we're going to keep moving up.
07-10-2005, 03:25 PM
SomethingBig

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

the world is worse off now than ever before.

That isn't true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

Fact is, it's better. We're doing better now than we ever have before, and we're going to keep moving up.

Neither is this.
07-10-2005, 04:41 PM
Shoden

this is going to turn out to be World war 3

some idiot in my class says this stupid thing "they should bomb the whole of the middle east wipe them all out then sorted" the guy is an idiot he is prejudiced faciast and stuck up
07-10-2005, 04:50 PM
Destai

I think Blairs done his best all round. I think Bush messed up abit in his first term but hes doing things as right as he can now. Its stupid. People are more concerned with what they should have done than what they should do.
07-10-2005, 05:17 PM
Madame Adequate

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomethingBig

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

the world is worse off now than ever before.

That isn't true.

Did you read the entire sentence?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomethingBig

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

Fact is, it's better. We're doing better now than we ever have before, and we're going to keep moving up.

Neither is this.

Yes it is. Some places have moved faster than others. Change =/= decline.
07-10-2005, 05:33 PM
SomethingBig

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

Did you read the entire sentence?

Yeah, I was agreeing with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

Yes it is. Some places have moved faster than others.

When you say that we've never seen better times, are you talking about the US or the entire world? Although it doesn't really matter, as the US has definitely had better times and so has the world.
07-10-2005, 06:40 PM
Cloud No.9

about sudan..... america is actually obliged to do something about it because it made the silly mistake of calling it genocide.
07-10-2005, 10:24 PM
tomamar04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoden

this is going to turn out to be World war 3

some idiot in my class says this stupid thing "they should bomb the whole of the middle east wipe them all out then sorted" the guy is an idiot he is prejudiced faciast and stuck up

This isn't gonna turn in to world war 3.

The world has been through a lot worse than this.
07-12-2005, 12:33 AM
Garland

The phrase, "Kill them all and let God sort them out," is attributed to Dominic Guzman. He's the founder of the Dominican order of priests. He and an armed troop of heretic hunters had come across a town that was supposed to contain a number of heretics. Guzman gave orders to kill everyone in town. When one of his subordinates told him that there were probably a lot of good Christians mixed up with the heretics what Guzman actually said was, "Kill them all and God will know his own." The Dominicans were also responsible for the three degrees of torture -- the thumbscrews, the bastinado and the burning of the flesh under the armpits. That's how we got the term "The Third Degree."

Credits for that paragraph:
http://www.bahamascommunity.com/blog..._them_out.html

Anyhow, maybe that kid in your class was simply misquoting a rather well known military policy. He's not necessasarily racist. He's just not merciful. Let's pretend he said that in reference to a war between the US and England. Just because there happens to be two races doesn't make it a racial issue.