Grunting, anyone?

I didn't want to start a thread about black or death metal 'cause I think a lot of people mix up when defining either of them, so therefore I call this thread "the grunting thread", dedicated to sorts of music (well, mostly metal, I guess :D) that has grunting vocals in it.

Why, you ask? Because I think grunting vocals are highly under-appreciated (probably because of some really bad grunters who don't know the right tactique), and want to spread the grunting love around (haha xD).
Also. Somewhere on this forum there was a post where someone said they like vocalisations that require a lot of talent and training = singing vocals (classical singing and the sort) and therefore don't like metal vocalists. Now I'm not sure if they meant the thrash-vocalists who mostly "scream and yell" (who i respect also, because when you think about it, it takes a lot of stamina in the vocal chords to keep screaming, for example, like Slayer's vocalist Tom Araya, for two hours straight live) or the grunters.

And it does take a lot of talent to do grunting, even more so to do it WELL. Try grunting for 11 minutes and getting some sense into it, (I mean words) and then go on a two-hour gig and grunt the whole thing through and then think again if it's as easy as you thought. :P

I myself like to listen to grunting vocals a lot and I love the feeling. When a good vocalist gets his/her voice going good, I get goosebumps all over my body, because it just sounds so damn chilly and scary, and that's what it's supposed to sound like.
To my mind, the best grunters ever are Mikael Åkerfeldt from Opeth, Ihsahn from Emperor, Chuck Schuldiner (may his soul forever rest in peace) from Death, Dan Swanö, for example Edge of Sanity, Moontower or Bloodbath (he has many musical projects). The world is full of good grunters, even women (Angela Gossow, Arch Enemy for example. She's quite good actually). But the Dimmu Borgir vocalist (what's-his-name) sounds really more like a cockroach xD *no offence to Borgir fans meant*

Now what I want to know is why do YOU like this sort of music, or why not? What makes it good to listen to, or on the other hand why does it sound so bad that it's not worth listening? Of course, the vocals aren't always the only thing to listen to in any kind of music, but to me it's like one of the instruments, and when done well, it completes the piece of music perfectly.

I don't know any bands of this genre. xD

Sorry, but I really don't like this kind of music. :( To me, it sounds so much better when a guy can truly sing. Not Justin Guarini sing, but Daniel Johns sing, Justin Hayward sing, Brandon Boyd sing.

I do admire the talent these guys have, because, like you said, it isn't easy to do, and even harder to do it so it sounds "good". But it doesn't appeal to me. The vocals are a huge part of liking the band (in my case), and that's what puts me off.


:D

I love "Grunting vocals", and a good growl is not something very easy to acomplish. My favourite type of "grunting" can be found on Eisregen's album Krebskolonie, when the regular vocals are grunted simultaneously with even deeper growls. (The track Scharlachrotes Kleid is a good example of this.) I also agree with you completely when it comes to the vocals being about as important to the music as any other instrument.

@Chris: This is not a genre.

People don't like grunting music because they can't understand the lyrics or hear soft melodie.
but I love it cus my ears are tuned in enough to appreciate the lyrics (which are usualy better than stupid pop-rock bands that everyone loves anyway) and the amazing guitar riffs which make you wanna air guitar stupidly at the bus stop when you're listnin to it on ya MP3 player lol.

BOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ..... quite.

Nope, I don't like this kind of singing. Solely because I can't stand grunting in music. I prefer singing where people can actually sing. But some of the guitar music that will go with it I like. For example I don't like Corey Taylor shouting, but I like Slipknot's music apart from his singing. I'm not going to just hate a band because I hate one thing from a band.

I kinda guessed that most of the responses would be negative ^^
but it's alright, I'm proud to belong to the lucky few who really understand what grunting is all about :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TisWas

I prefer singing where people can actually sing.

---

I don't like the tone of that "actually".... but whatever, it's your opinion.
Some of these grawlers can actually sing too. Try Opeth's Damnation album - there are no grunting vocals, and Mikael "actually sings" (not that he doesn't sing in their other albums, it just doesn't play the main part ;P). So being a "grunter" doesn't always mean you can't "actually sing", heh. I think his voice is amazing, and he never had any singing classes x)
(okay that maybe was beside the point and everything, just advertizing my fave band XD)

Quote:

---

For example I don't like Corey Taylor shouting, but I like Slipknot's music apart from his singing. I'm not going to just hate a band because I hate one thing from a band.

---

I wouldn't call Slipknot a grunting band. as you said, Corey shouts rather than grunts. And there is a difference between those things.


BTW Chris, I suggest you try some Opeth, too, if you want to know what really good grunting sounds like ;)
try and find an album called Blackwater Park (sometimes referred to as their best album) and listen to those tracks.

We're calling them "grunting" vocals now? Haha.

And there is a huge difference between between grunting and screaming, you may want to look into that. Chuck Shuldiner was more of a screamer (and one of my favourite musicians ever, Death's Human album is a friggin masterpiece), and Alexi Laiho's voice from Children of Bodom is growing on me. They're both more throat-shredding screams with a higher pitch, and are generally clearer. These I can stand if the music's good, and Bodom and Death and both very good musically.

"Grunting", on the other hand, I can't stand. The very deep growling type thing, it's just not my thing. It's not because I don't like heavy metal, I just think it sounds God-awful and it really ruins bands like Opeth for me. Though if they have an album, as you said, with no screaming I'll definately take a look, the singer has a very nice "clean" voice.

As for you "not liking that actually", I don't like that "I'm proud to belong to the lucky few who really understand what grunting is all about". Just because someone doesn't like something doesn't mean they don't understand it. I understand this grunting thing, I see why some people would like, I see how it could fit some music, and I still thinking it sounds bloody awful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ravenmorghane

People don't like grunting music because they can't understand the lyrics or hear soft melodie. but I love it cus my ears are tuned in enough to appreciate the lyrics (which are usualy better than stupid pop-rock bands that everyone loves anyway)

---

It may surprise you, but often people don't like things simply because THEY DO NOT LIKE THEM.

I can think of plenty of people who don't like grunting, screaming, shouting vocals, not because they don't understand the lyrics but just because it isn't something they like.

I like screaming, shouting, grunting vocals 'cause it's pretty fun to just have crazy angry music, but I dislike Opeth's grunty screamy stuff though, gimme the more melodic vocals kthnx.

Opeth completely removing the growly or screamy vocals would make the music worse. It's a very important part of the music and it's executed very well. Damnation is different, since the music is very different from their older albums.

WTF corey taylor has an amazing voice .. so what if its not "clean" at least it doesnt sound fake!
James hetfield could carry a song in tune better than chris martin any day.
Dave grohl - yet another genious with an amazing rough voice.
I much prefer this kind of singing to other genres where the voices are completely edited by computers to sound better yet the 'singer' either mimes or sings with a nasal whine. grunting singers never let down live. And they really really work hard on stage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ravenmorghane

grunting singers never let down live.

---

Just like with everything else, there are bad and good grunters.
The bad ones are capable of disappointing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jrgen

Damnation is different, since the music is very different from their older albums.

---

That's what I mean, I only really like Damnation out of Opeth's albums, the others just didn't grab anywhere near as much. Maybe if I went back to them now, it might be different.

In fact, I think I will, since it was a few years since I last listened to them and my tastes have changed a lot.

It's alright, but I'm into more clear vocals.

So what do you guys think of Nile? I suppose you know them, since they're American. Very deep grunting. The rest of the music is awesome too. Really brutal stuff.

I'm not so much a fan of grunting - I mean, just the word grunting puts me off. Makes me think of pigs.

Anyway, I'm more a fan of the hardcore/metalcore scream/shout. Think Darkest Hour, Bleeding Through, Unearth, Dillinger Escape Plan, Norma Jean, Every Time I Die and Walls of Jericho - Candice has an amazing voice, proof that females can do hXc. But that is just personal taste, I know it takes a talent to be able to "grunt", just as it takes a talent to do anything in music.

I saw a band last night, I can't remeber the name, but they were pretty brutal, full on technical metalcore. The music really impressed me, but the singer let it down because he "grunted". Sounded like he was burping half the time. To me it detracted from the overall sense of the music, but again, thats personal taste. Like I said, I'm not a death-metal person.

:)

Chaos