Multiple FF Questions

I have a few (or a lot) of questions about the game, as I just beat it the first time, and I'm replaying it again, as well.

EDIT: Some of the questions have already been answered partially or fully- they have been deleted. Read the following posts for the original questions and their answers.

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Final Fantasy VII

Story-related

-At the end of the game, Sephiroth is destroyed, and so releases Aeris's spirit into the Lifestream, bringing her prayer for Holy to the planet to make it's decision, correct?
-Sephiroth never died before the end of the game; Cloud threw him into the Lifestream after he'd been stabbed, correct? But how did Sephiroth become imprisoned in what looked to be giant materia?

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Please, anyone, answer these questions. I'll mark them off as they get answered. Thank you.

I'll only answer a few. I'll let someone else field the others because I haven't played in a long time. Also these are out of the order you wrote them in because I went back and did some more.

EDIT: I've actually gone back and done more than a few... :D

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Originally Posted by PjO

-Is it true that FFX and FFX-2 are prequels to FFVII? I've compared maps, and they seem very similar (FFVII's map has many more smaller islands broken off of main continents, and Spheres may, in fact, be early Materia, and much more abundant).

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The only real "evidence" for that occurs in X-2 when Shinra says that the pyreflies of the Farplane can be harvested into some sort of fossil fuel. People instantly made the connection with Mako energy, which uses the Lifestream (more or less the same thing) to provide power to the masses. The fact that his name was Shinra also led people to believe that the little genius in FFX-2 would go on (or his descendants) to bring the dream to fruition etc. etc.

I think it's reasonable to say that Square just put it in as a bit of a tease. FFX-2 isn't a "serious" FF and it's set in a light-hearted sort of way. I'd just dismiss it as an attempt to be mildly humourous.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-Where can you obtain or buy double- or triple-growth weaponry during the game, besides in the third disc?

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I do believe that there are several weapons that you can find. The Rune Blade is found in Mt. Nibel, somewhere in the first screen (on the peak of a little spire). I'm pretty sure it's possible to get Apocalypse before disc 3 but again, I haven't played in a long time. Aeris' Wizard and Wizer staves are both double and both found easily. Aw, there's actually a LOT for all characters and I don't think it's worth going through them all when it'll be easier searching it up.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-What is Vincent precisely?

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He's a former Turk. Hojo messed around with him (I don't think it was injection of Jenova cells like SOLDIER because he doesn't make Mako eyes, so it's something else evil and frankensteiny) and now he's a freak that can change forms.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-How can Nanaki (Red XIII) reproduce if he is the last of his kind?

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He may be similar to those animals that can reproduce without a mate (was that asexual, or is that something else *is confused*). Failing that, the world of FFVII is a very magical place. So a wizard did it.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-Where is it possible to obtain or buy Morph materia anytime other than when you first meet Yuffie?

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Sorry. You have to master it.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-When Tifa becomes controllable after WEAPON blows a hole into the gas chamber she is held in, she escapes by jumping off the barrel of the Junon gun and onto a ladder of the airship, Highwind. A mysterious voice, much like the one invading Cloud's mind, tells her to jump. Who is it?

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I've always assumed it was just someone on the Highwind yelling at her from below. I might have to go back and take another look it though.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-What happened to Nibelheim, really? Was it, in fact, destroyed five years before?

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If you'd go to Tifa's room and read the note on her desk, you'll see that it explains that Nibelheim was in fact rebuilt and people were brought in by Shinra to pose of townspeople. Yes, Sephiroth burnt it to nothing five years ago.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-When Tifa tells Cloud about when she met him in Midgar near the train station, he tells her he hadn't seen her in five years, when it had really been seven years. How is this so?

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It was five years since Cloud saw Tifa but it had been seven since Tifa saw Cloud. Cloud was a Shinra soldier, too ashamed to reveal himself when Sephiroth and Zack were called to Nibelheim. So Tifa never saw Cloud even though he was there.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-Tifa helps Cloud remember himself; when he found he was just a guard and not Zack, then what happened to him after he threw Sephiroth into the depths of the Mako Reactor with Jenova? What about Zack? Is it true that Hojo had put Cloud and Zack into a capsule each in the Mako Reactor to experiment on them and keep them alive? And why, if memory serves, doesn't Tifa know exactly if Nibelheim had been burned down?

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Hojo had Cloud and Zack preserved in capsules, yeah. They escaped and made a break for Midgar but Zack was shot down as they reached their destination. I don't remember Tifa ever saying that Nibelheim hadn't burnt to the ground.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-Throughout the game, Cloud hears a voice in his head, such as after he falls into the church and meets Aeris. Who is speaking to him? Is it Sephiroth?

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I've always thought it was the real Cloud, a little bit of him that knows about his past and wants to help physical Cloud get back to himself. A pretty safe assumption because the voice stops after Tifa and Cloud take a dip in the lifestream.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-At the end of the game, Sephiroth is destroyed, and so releases Aeris's spirit into the Lifestream, bringing her prayer for Holy to the planet to make it's decision, correct?

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No. We hate Holy! Holy failed the Planet. Red XIII says that Holy is leaving the Planet and that it failed to protect it from Midgar. Aeris doesn't save anything because she prayed for Holy, not the lifestream. Her sacrifice was for nothing. As for her face appearing at the end, I've read that as a tribute to the price she paid to try and save the world. She had nothing to do with it IMO.

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Originally Posted by PjO

I have a few (or a lot) of questions about the game, as I just beat it the first time, and I'm replaying it again, as well.

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Final Fantasy VII

Story-related

-Throughout the game, Cloud hears a voice in his head, such as after he falls into the church and meets Aeris. Who is speaking to him? Is it Sephiroth?

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Cloud's true self. The person he was before he changed into the image of Zack.

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-When Tifa becomes controllable after WEAPON blows a hole into the gas chamber she is held in, she escapes by jumping off the barrel of the Junon gun and onto a ladder of the airship, Highwind. A mysterious voice, much like the one invading Cloud's mind, tells her to jump. Who is it?

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Its Cid, or someone else aboard the Highwind. They were just calling down to her to tell her to jump.

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-What happened to Nibelheim, really? Was it, in fact, destroyed five years before?

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Yes, it was destroyed, then rebuilt by Shinra.

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-When Tifa tells Cloud about when she met him in Midgar near the train station, he tells her he hadn't seen her in five years, when it had really been seven years. How is this so?

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I'm not sure I understand the question. Do you mean why did he think it had only been five years/ If thats your question, he HAD seen her five years ago, but she didn't know that because he didn't reveal himself as Cloud.

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-Tifa helps Cloud remember himself; when he found he was just a guard and not Zack, then what happened to him after he threw Sephiroth into the depths of the Mako Reactor with Jenova? What about Zack? Is it true that Hojo had put Cloud and Zack into a capsule each in the Mako Reactor to experiment on them and keep them alive? And why, if memory serves, doesn't Tifa know exactly if Nibelheim had been burned down?

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Go to Nibelheim and into Shinra's Mansion after Tifa helps Cloud remember himself. Its explained there. However, I will help you for the time being. Zack and Cloud were taken for testing in the lab of Shinra mansion, where they eventually escaped. On there way to Midgar, Zack was shot repeatedly and, of course, died. Cloud was left to die, but instead he took Zack's Buster Sword and made his way to Midgar. And Tifa did know Nibelheim burned down. Why would you think she didn't?

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-What exactly, was the purpose of all the Sephiroth clones with numbers tatooed on them, and why did some de, and some live, and what was reunion?

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Hojo created them as an experiment, and they came because Jenova called them. Sephiroth only needed them to retreive the Black Materia, and that clone was of course (SPOILER)Cloud.

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-If Cloud was not, in fact, a Sephiroth clone born in a lab, why did Hojo call him a failed experiment even still after his mind was sorted out? (I recall in an AdventChildren trailer in which a silver-haired man calls himself and Cloud puppets, explain, please)

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Because he had not been given a tatoo, Hojo assumed he was a failed experiment. This is not true. Cloud WAS a successful experiment, it was Zack who was not. Zack freed Cloud, and so Cloud was never given time to get a tatoo.

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-What is Vincent precisely?

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If you want to know his history, ask me that later, as it is too long to explain. As for what he is, he is just another of Hojo's twisted experiments.

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-How can Nanaki (Red XIII) reproduce if he is the last of his kind? (gathered from the ending of FFVII after the credits)

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He is the last KNOWN member of his species. There could still be more out there.
Generally FFVII-related

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-Is it true that FFX and FFX-2 are prequels to FFVII? I've compared maps, and they seem very similar (FFVII's map has many more smaller islands broken off of main continents, and Spheres may, in fact, be early Materia, and much more abundant).

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As far as we know, no they are not. It is not something officially stated by the game's creators. It is just a rumor.

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-Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children is releasing in the United States of America on September the Fourteenth, 2005?

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Yes.

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Please, anyone, answer these questions. I'll mark them off as they get answered. Thank you.[/QUOTE]

Thank you.
I'm actually unsure of many aspects of the game because I played it only once- and even then in intervals of... months! This was because I'd heard FFVII, I knew, was the greatest game ever created (story-wise), and I'd just finished FFX and started FFX-2, so I became shallow and decided it wasn't any good because the graphics were old and the music was too electronic. How wrong was I, hunh? I'd started from the point I left off (in the cave after I visited the Chocobo farm on the first disc) a few days ago and didn't stop since. I was just being stupid.

Also, I found that FFX and FFX-2 are indeed sequels to FFVII. It was announced by someone from Square-Enix... I need to find that quote again... And also, on a forum, here's what someone said, close to what you said.

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When Yuna and the party are in the Farplane, about ready to fight Vegnagun (after they meet up with Leblanc, Logos, and Ormi), instead of going immediately to fight Vegnagun, warp back to the Celcius and talk to Shinra. He'll say something about the Farplane being the life energy of the planet, that it's potentially infinite, and that he thinks he could develop a way to tap into that energy given enough time. He says that all of Spira could be lit up like Zanarkand. Yuna says that would be wonderful, but Shinra says the necessary technology is still a long ways off, which makes her sad. So a connection between the two games makes sense, even if they're not direct sequels/prequels. Plus, the guy's name is Shinra, for crying out loud. That can't be a coincidence!

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Aha. Found it.

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-- Is there a connection between Shinra and FFVII?

Nojima: Yes, actually. After Shinra quit the Gullwings he got enormous financial backing from Rin and went to the Farplane to start extracting the Mako energy used by the Vegnagun. But the system for utilizing this energy could not be completed in his generation, so far in the future when space travel was possible, the Shinra Company was founded on another planet... or something like that. That would be a thousand years or so from this game's story.

-- And VII's story takes place after that?

Nojima: Well, you could say that's how I personally feel about it.

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Yay! Another question answered (for sure, as Nojima is a writer for Square-Enix).

EDIT: Also, reading my post again, I'm very certain that Shin-ra Inc. wasn't founded on another planet, as the maps are nearly identical. Look and see for yourselves.

I'm convinced it's the same planet- it's just that a whole continent is missing from the FFX map. It may be different in FFVII due to plate tectonics and lower water-levels. Yes, I know, I'm dumb.

Now my mood's up. I think I'll post a way to get the full FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, and FFX-2 soundtracks (legally, 'course), but not in a CD-writable format. I'm sure they can be converted, though. Right now I'm too tired, though, as it's a bit late. I'll post it tomorrow as a general thanks.

EDIT: After searching the FFX part of this site, I found you can just download their MP3s fully.

<.<;

I'm new, all right?

Interesting. Do you have a link to where you found this? I would like to read the infomation from it's source.

My source for my previous post- FFX and FFX-2 being prequels to the greatest game of all time, was from another forum. I remembered reading before on a gaming magazine website with that interview with him. He is, also, the writer fro FFVII: AC and FFX and FFX-2, and I suppose FFVII itself, if he wrote all these prequels and sequels, right?

It's a weak source, but a good interview, right? I guess we won't know until one of us kidnaps Nojima at the next E3 and question him on a live internet broadcast using high-quality webcams and microphones.

EDIT: No more edits or posts from me for several hours, as I'm gonna pull an all-nighter on FFVII. And after I beat it again I actually plan on playing FFX-2 instead of letting it collect dust like I had after I found it was really, very cheesy and more sexually-appealing than being a game with an actualy story. 'Night, everyone.

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Originally Posted by PjO

I have a few (or a lot) of questions about the game, as I just beat it the first time, and I'm replaying it again, as well.

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Final Fantasy VII

Story-related

-Throughout the game, Cloud hears a voice in his head, such as after he falls into the church and meets Aeris. Who is speaking to him? Is it Sephiroth?

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The voice is Cloud's subconscious. Refer to this thread for details.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-When Tifa becomes controllable after WEAPON blows a hole into the gas chamber she is held in, she escapes by jumping off the barrel of the Junon gun and onto a ladder of the airship, Highwind. A mysterious voice, much like the one invading Cloud's mind, tells her to jump. Who is it?

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I'm not sure it meant to be that mysterious. I've always interpreted the voice to be an ally aboard the Highwind, which was already in the general vicinity. Alternativiely, it could be Tifa's mind/interior. Unlike the issue of the voice in Cloud's mind, it's not really all that important.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-What happened to Nibelheim, really? Was it, in fact, destroyed five years before?

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The game makes this relatively clear. Monster outbreaks lead Shinra to deploy SOLDIER to deal with the crisis.

(from the Kalm flashback)

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Sephiroth: ...I thought you wanted a briefing? Our mission is to investigate an
old Mako reactor. There have been reports of it malfunctioning, and producing
brutal creatures. Then, we'll locate the problem and neutralize it.

Cloud: Brutal creatures... Where?

Sephiroth: The Mako Reactor at Nibelheim.

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The source of the problem is tracked to the Nibel reactor, where Sephiroth sees that Hojo has been exposing individuals to high concentrations of Mako energy. This has resulted in monstrous mutation in these individuals.

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Sephiroth: Why did it break...? ...now I see, Hojo. But, even doing this, will
never put you on the same level as Professor Gast. This is a system that
condenses and freezes the Mako energy... that is, when it's working correctly.
Now... what does Mako energy became when it's further condensed?

Cloud: Uh, ummm...... Oh yeah! It becomes a Materia.

Sephiroth: Right, normally. But Hojo put something else in there. ...Take a
look.
Look through the window.

Cloud looked.

Cloud: Wh... what is this!?

Sephiroth: Normal members of SOLDIER are humans that have been showered with
Mako. You're different from the others, but still human. But, what are they?
They've been exposed to a high degree of Mako, far more than you.

Cloud: ...is this some kind of monster?

Sephiroth: Exactly. And it's Hojo of Shinra that produced these monsters.
Mutated living organisms produced by Mako energy. That's what these monster's
really are.

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This dialogue segment immediately leads Sephiroth to question the specifics of his own existence.

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Sephiroth: Exactly. And it's Hojo of Shinra that produced these monsters.
Mutated living organisms produced by Mako energy. That's what these monster's
really are.

Cloud: Normal members of SOLDIER? You mean you're different? H... hey,
Sephiroth!

Sephiroth: N...no...... ...Was I?

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Then....

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Sephiroth: ...Was I created this way too? Am I the same as all these
monsters......

Cloud: ...Sephiroth.

Sephiroth: You saw it! All of them... were humans...

Cloud: Humans!? No way!

Sephiroth: ...I've always felt since I was small... That I was different from
the others. Special, in some way. But... not like this...

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Sephiroth is later found in the basement of the Shinra mansion in Nibelheim, reading about the Jenova Project.

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Sephiroth: (reading a book) ...an organism that was apparently dead, was found
in a 2000 year old geological stratum. Professor Gast named that organism,
Jenova... X Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova confirmed to be an Ancient ...X Year, X
Month, X Day. Jenova Project approved. The use of Mako Reactor I approved for
use... My mother's name is Jenova... Jenova Project... Is this just a
coincidence? Professor Gast... Why didn't you tell me anything? ...Why did you
die?

Cloud left as Sephiroth kept on reading books. Later as Cloud gets up from the
bed, he goes down to the basement.

Sephiroth: Ha, ha, ha...... Who is it!? Hmph... traitor.

Cloud: Traitor?

Sephiroth: You ignorant traitor. I'll tell you. This was a itinerant race. They
would migrate in, settle the Planet, then move on... At the end of their harsh,
hard journey, they would find the Promised Land and supreme happiness. But,
those who stopped their migrations built shelters and elected to lead an easier
life. They took that which the Cetra and the planet had made without giving back
one whit in return! Those are your ancestors.

Cloud: Sephiroth...

Sephiroth: Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped... They
survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After
that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is
in these reports.

Cloud: What does that have to do with you?

Sephiroth: Don't you get it? An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological
stratum of 2000 years ago. The Jenova Project. The Jenova Project wanted to
produce people with the powers of the Ancients...... no, the Cetra! ...I am the
one that was produced.

Cloud: Pr...produced!?

Sephiroth: Yes. Professor Gast, leader of the Jenova Project and genius
scientist, produced me.

Cloud: How...how did he...? Se...Sephiroth?

Sephiroth: Out of my way. I'm going to see my mother.

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At this point, Sephiroth (obviously not yet aware of all details himself, as he apparently believes JENOVA to be a Cetra, although this could potentially be the manipulations of JENOVA already at work), completely unbalanced by what he has learned, goes on a rampage and, in essence, destroys Nibelheim. He goes to the reactor for JENOVA, where Zack (the "Cloud" of the flashback) and Tifa are severly injured trying to engage the warrior. Cloud, a common soldier along on the mission, takes up Zack's Buster Sword and wounds Sephiroth. He then goes to check Tifa. Sephiroth emerges from the room fronted by the Mechanical Angel with the head of JENOVA, and stabs Cloud with the Masamune when Cloud attempts to follow. Cloud is then somehow able to take the Masamune by the blade and hurl its wielder into the depths of the reactor.

Tifa is rescued by Zangan, who takes her to Midgar. Cloud and Zack, as well as the surviving residents of Nibelheim, are used by Hojo in various experiments (including Jenova therapy). The survivors of the disaster (minus Cloud and Zack) are actually the CLONES, the black-clad individuals that seek Sephiroth and the Reunion.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-When Tifa tells Cloud about when she met him in Midgar near the train station, he tells her he hadn't seen her in five years, when it had really been seven years. How is this so?

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Actually, it really had been five years since Cloud saw Tifa. Tifa, however, is unaware of this. As a result of the Jenova therapy that Cloud endured, as well as his own self-doubt, Cloud confused some (but not all) aspects of the past. In reality, Cloud was a common soldier who accompanied Sephiroth and Zack to Nibelheim. However, he was ashamed of not having made SOLDIER, and did not reveal his actual identity to Tifa. He later replaces Zack with himself in his memories, as a result of the JENOVA cells and his own doubt. We actually can see the conclusion of this process in an in-game flashback, when Tifa first discovers Cloud in Midgar. The screen flashes several times, conveying the idea that Cloud's knowledge of the past was being distorted by the ideas he ultimately conveyed in the Kalm flashback.

In short, Tifa did not realize Cloud was in Nibelheim five years ago, because Cloud spoke of himself as Zack. He was there, though, as the unknown common soldier.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-At the end of the game, Sephiroth is destroyed, and so releases Aeris's spirit into the Lifestream, bringing her prayer for Holy to the planet to make it's decision, correct?

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Not exactly. Actually, it's unlikely that Aeris' death was even necessary for Holy. The prayer itself should have been sufficient. Sephiroth's destruction is necessary, however, for Holy to come, since he is blocking it. Refer to this segment of dialogue when the party and Bugenhagen travel to the City of the Ancients.

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Bugenhagen: The knowledge of the Ancients swirling around here is telling me one
thing. The planet's in a crisis... A crisis beyond human power or endless time.
It says, when the time comes, we must search for 'Holy'.

Cloud: Holy?

Bugenhagen: Holy... the ultimate White Magic. Magic that might stand against
Meteor. Perhaps our last hope to save the planet from Meteor. If a soul seeking
Holy reaches the planet, it will appear. Ho Ho Hoooo. Meteor, Weapon, everything
will disappear. Perhaps, even ourselves.

Cloud: Even us!?

Bugenhagen: It is up to the planet to decide. What is best for the planet. What
is bad for the planet. All that is bad will disappear. That is all. Ho Ho Hoooo.
I wonder which we humans are?

Cloud: Search for Holy... How do we do it?

Bugenhagen: Speak to the planet. Get the White Materia... This will bond the
Planet to humans. Then speak to the planet. If our wish reaches the planet, the
White Materia will begin to glow a pale green.

Cloud: ...This is the end. Aeris had the White Materia... But when Aeris died,
it fell from the altar... That's why...... this is the end.

Bugenhagen: Ho Ho Hoooo! Ho Ho Hoooo! Ho Ho Hoooo! Look at this!

Cloud: !?

Bugenhagen: Ancients' writing.

Cloud: Can you read it?

Bugenhagen: I can't even make it out!!

Cloud: This's no time for jokes...

Bugenhagen: I'm not an Ancient. I can't read this thing! I may be old, but my
eyes aren't completely bad yet. Look closely below the writing.

Cloud: There's a note written in chalk...... (key)... (in the Music Box)

Bugenhagen: It was probably written by a scientist who's been here... He
probably used all his energy to make out these two words.

Cloud: Key......? To what?

Bugenhagen: I don't know... But, it probably has something to do with our
riddle.
The riddle... then it must have something to do with Aeris.

Cloud: What does it mean?

Bugenhagen: That Music Box over there. We'll put the key in it. I'll go use the
key. You all wait here. And watch closely what happens. Ho Ho Hoooo!

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We eventually see that the White Materia is, in fact, glowing pale green.

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Cloud: ...It's glowing.

Bugenhagen: Ho Ho Hoooo!! It's pale green!!

Cloud: ...Aeris. Aeris has already prayed for Holy. ...After I gave up the
Black Materia to Sephiroth...... Aeris' words came into my dreams... She said,
she was the only one who could stop Sephiroth...... And to do that, there was a
secret here... that was Holy...... That's why, she had the White Materia. Aeris
knew about here... and what she had to do. Aeris has left us great hope. But,
it cost her her life... her future... I'm sorry... Aeris. I should have figured
this out sooner. ...You left us without saying a word...... It was all so
sudden,
so I couldn't think... That's why it took so long for me to find out. But,
Aeris... I understand now. Aeris... I'll do the rest.

Barret: That's 'WE'!

Cid: The big gift the flower girl left for us... It'd be sad if we didn't finish
it!

Cloud: Thank you... Aeris. Aeris' voice has already reached the Planet. Just
look at the glow of the White Materia. But...... how about Holy? How come Holy
isn't moving? Why?

Bugenhagen: Something's getting in its way.

Cloud: ......Him...... He's the only one that could do it....Sephiroth. Where
are you?

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Important information is highlighted for emphasis.

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Originally Posted by PjO

But how did Sephiroth become imprisoned in what looked to be giant materia?

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After Sephiroth was thrown into the depths of the reactor, his body floated through the Lifestream. Recall that Mako is compressed Spirit Energy and that Spirit Energy is the stuff of the Lifestream; it makes sense, then, that the reactor might tap the Lifestream in order to have a source of Spirit Energy to be converted to Mako. Once in the Lifestream, Sephiroth would have floated to his ultimate location at the Crater. As materia is crystallized Mako/Spirit Energy, and materia can form naturally, Sephiroth merely followed the Lifestream to that point.

Remember that Sephiroth himself alludes to his journey through the Lifestream.

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Sephiroth: ...Ah, but I have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a
traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-Tifa helps Cloud remember himself; when he found he was just a guard and not Zack, then what happened to him after he threw Sephiroth into the depths of the Mako Reactor with Jenova? What about Zack? Is it true that Hojo had put Cloud and Zack into a capsule each in the Mako Reactor to experiment on them and keep them alive? And why, if memory serves, doesn't Tifa know exactly if Nibelheim had been burned down?

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Well, after hurling Seph into the reactor, Cloud was captured (recall that he had been stabbed, after all) and used in experiments by Hojo. Zack had been severely injured by Seph as well, and met the same fate as Cloud. Neither was put into capsules at the Mako reactor; such a scenario would have likely led to monstrous mutation, as seen in the Kalm flashback. Instead, they were held in tubes in the basement of the Shinra mansion, where both were exposed to Mako and JENOVA cells as part of the experimentation.

Tifa should know that Nibelheim was burned down; indeed, she can recall that fateful night. However, Shinra rebuilt the town, and populated it with its own employees, as part of a cover-up effort. When Cloud and Tifa first return to Nibelheim in Disc 1, the employees obviously pretend to know nothing of the disaster. As the cover-up is not immediately apparent to the party, and Tifa is already aware of inconsistencies in Cloud's memory, it's understandable that the whole situation was confusing.

A document in Tifa's bedroom confirms the reality of the cover-up.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-What exactly, was the purpose of all the Sephiroth clones with numbers tatooed on them, and why did some die, and some live, and what was reunion?

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The CLONES were the former residents of Nibelheim. The 'reunion' refers to the Jenova Reunion, in essence the idea that the cells of JENOVA would try to again come together. Hojo deemed this the Jenova Reunion theory, and it seems as though an aspect of the experiment was to see if the theory was correct. As the CLONES had received JENOVA cells, they did eventually journey to the Whirlwind Maze, as the cells tried to reunite.

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Originally Posted by PjO

-If Cloud was not, in fact, a Sephiroth clone born in a lab, why did Hojo call him a failed experiment even still after his mind was sorted out? (I recall in an AdventChildren trailer in which a silver-haired man calls himself and Cloud puppets, explain, please)

---

Hojo only called Cloud a failed experiment after Cloud himself told Hojo that. Cloud believed this since Sephiroth convinced him of it when he was screwing with Cloud's mind.

As you suggest, Hojo again refers to Cloud as a failed experiment when the party confronts him atop the Sister Ray at the end of Disc 2.

Quote:

---

Cloud: Hojo! Stop right there!!

Hojo: Oh... the failure.

Cloud: At least remember my name! It's Cloud!

Hojo: Every time I see you, I... It pains me that I had so little scientific
sense... I evaluated you as a failed project. But, you are the only one that
succeeded as a Sephiroth-clone. Heh, heh, heh...... I'm even beginning to hate
myself.

Cloud: None of that matters... just stop this nonsense!

---

However, Cloud was never really a failure at all. Hojo's perception of this was based on what Cloud told him. In any case, there's no way Hojo could have known that Cloud had corrected his memory; to him, Cloud was the same as he was earlier in the Disc. It's also possible that Hojo was taunting Cloud; further still, Hojo had lost any and all vestiges of sanity by this point. Cloud, for his part, had better things to do than argue the fact; AVALANCHE had to stop the Sister Ray.

Unfortunately, I can't help a great deal with AC info, since I've avoided most spoilers in order to better enjoy the movie when it actually comes out. Forum member Squall of SeeD would probably be the best person to ask for Advent Children information.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

Gameplay-related

-Where can you obtain or buy double- or triple-growth weaponry during the game, besides in the third disc?

---

There are only two triple-growth weapons in the game, and neither can be bought. Cid's Scimitar can only be acquired in Disc 2, however; it's within the Underwater Reactor. The other triple-growth weapon, Cloud's Apocalypse, is usually acquired on Disc 3. It can be gained on Disc 2, however, if you take a Green Chocobo to the Ancient Forest.

There's abundant double-growth weaponry, really. Cloud's double-growth weapons are Force Stealer and Rune Blade; Barret's are W-Machine Gun and Drill Arm; Tifa's are Motor Drive and Platinum Fist; Aeris' are Wizard Rod and Wizer Staff; Red XIII's are Magic Comb and Plus Barette; Cait Sith's are White M-Phone and Black M-Phone; Cid's are Viper Halberd and Javelin; Yuffie's are Wind Slash and Twin Viper; and Vincent's are Peacemaker and Buntline.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-Where is it possible to obtain or buy Morph materia anytime other than when you first meet Yuffie?

---

You cannot buy Morph materia, and obtaining the materia has nothing to do with Yuffie. It is found only in the Temple of the Ancients.

That having been said, Yuffie comes with Throw, a different Command materia. Throw materia can later be bought at Fort Condor and Rocket Town (Discs 2 and 3).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-What is Vincent precisely?

---

This seems to be more of a storyline question. In any case, Vincent Valentine was a member of the Turks. He also loved a young scientist named Lucrecia, who was involved with Professor Gast's Jenova Project. This love was unrequited, however; Lucrecia loved Hojo. After Lucrecia got pregnant (her baby is Sephiroth), Hojo injected JENOVA cells directly into the womb. Eventually, Vincent confronted Hojo, who shot him. This likely killed Vincent, although he was revived by means of Hojo's experimentation/anatomical reconstruction. Whether or not Hojo's experimentation involved JENOVA is unclear, evidence both supports and refutes the theory (at the present time, I believe that he didn't use JENOVA cells). Whatever Hojo did, it likely contributed to Vincent's Limit Break transformations. It also seems to have rendered Vincent immortal; he doesn't age (which is why the game manual lists him as 27, when he's actually about 30 years older than that).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PjO

-How can Nanaki (Red XIII) reproduce if he is the last of his kind? (gathered from the ending of FFVII after the credits)

---

He's probably not the last of his race. While the game seems to suggest this early on, Bugenhagen seemingly refutes it right before his death.

Quote:

---

Bugenhagen: It's a wide world and you must go out and see it... You may even find your life's mate. You never know.

---

The ending sequence would seem to confirm this idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

Generally FFVII-related

-Is it true that FFX and FFX-2 are prequels to FFVII? I've compared maps, and they seem very similar (FFVII's map has many more smaller islands broken off of main continents, and Spheres may, in fact, be early Materia, and much more abundant).

---

The answer to your actual question is no; the answer to the overall premise is maybe. Kazushige Nojima, Scenario Writer for the games in question, suggests that the descendents of the FFX-2 character Shinra would eventually travel through space and wind up on Gaia, where the Shinra Corporation would be formed. The "no" refers to the idea that Spira and Gaia are the same world; even Nojima's speculation doesn't encompass that.

The "maybe" refers to the overall "prequel" idea. Nojima suggests that its true, and he has a certain amount of authority in the area. However, his idea, as currently construed, is wrought with MASSIVE plotholes (as a matter of fact, I view a few of the things he's said as impossibilities). He can certainly make changes to make the idea more plausible, but, without rewriting the FFVII history, the task would be nearly Herculean. Frankly, I don't think that he'll be able to form a fully logical connection between Gaia and Spira that respects the histories of both worlds. Also, the dialogue at the end of FFX-2, when viewed independent of the Nojima interview, still seems more referential than actually indicative of connection. Ultimately, the games are true canon, and unless proof of connection is included somewhere in the Compilation, the idea is no more than idle speculation.

To be honest, unless there's indisputable in-game/movie evidence, or Nomura and Kitase come out in full support of the idea, I won't believe it. Of course, that sentiment stems from the admitted fact that I'm not impartial in the debate. I don't want to see the worlds connected, primarily because I really don't think it can be done seamlessly.

Squall of SeeD supports the idea; you should see the other side of the argument. His take on the possibility of Spira-Gaia connectedness can be found here; it's also arguably the best site around for FFVII story clarifications. If anything I said was confusing, you can refer to other segments of that site for clarification.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PjO

-Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children is releasing in the United States of America on September the Fourteenth, 2005?

---

So it seems. :D

I'm taking a break from my all-nighter.

Masamune, you are, indeed, a beast. Thank you, thank you, so much. I love you in a non-sexual way. You've clarified so much and gone into complete detail. You're a living, breathing walkthrough/FAQ.

And about the FFX(-2) and FFVII connections, now that I think about it, I doubt that the entire history of FFVII can take place within 1000 years on a different planet, nor can it possibly take place on Spira, because of Spira's own history. I like the idea of them being prequels to the "Most Amazingly Awesome and Cool Final Fantasy Game by Square-Enix of All Time," but you're right. It does seem impossible. Unless, of course, the FFX-2 world is somehow completely obliterated. Completely. And then the few people left alive would become the Ancients, the Cetra, and history would move on from that point. But I seriously doubt it now... And I'm just spouting ideas.

Anyway, again, you're a beast. And me and my close circle of friends only use that term for things that truly exceed God-like greatness.

Oh, also.

That website you linked me to has some great arguments against Nojima, and you can already see that it's nigh-impossible for FFVII and FFX-2 to be linked.

Actually, the website I linked to supports the idea of connectivity between the games. I felt you should see the other side of the argument, since I am, admittedly, against it.


Thanks for the compliments. :) Glad to help.

Wasn't there an ingame sequence with cloud and zack when they were going back to midgar when they were mercenaries ... or something?

If so, where/when can I find it?

When is VII's world referred to as Gaia? That's FFIX!

Q----Sephiroth never died before the end of the game; Cloud threw him into the Lifestream after he'd been stabbed, correct? But how did Sephiroth become imprisoned in what looked to be giant materia?----

A----The spirit energy condensed to become materia whilst his body was floating around in it----

is final fantasy vii advent children comming to canada?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PjO

Final Fantasy VII

Story-related

-At the end of the game, Sephiroth is destroyed, and so releases Aeris's spirit into the Lifestream, bringing her prayer for Holy to the planet to make it's decision, correct?

---

Not exactly. Aeris' 'spirit' did not have to reach the Lifestream, so to speak, to unleash Holy. Actually, it seems unlikely that she even had to die for Holy to be cast. Her prayer alone would have been sufficient for the White Materia to glow pale green (which indicates its activation). Indeed, the orb is shown doing so after the Key of the Ancients sequence, which takes place before her spirit reaches the Planet. Recall this segment of dialogue, from the end of Disc 2, which occurs after we see the White Materia has been activated.

Quote:

---

Cloud: ......Aeris. She was smiling to the end. We have to do something, or
that smile will just freeze like that. Let's go all together. Memories of
Aeris... ...Although she should've returned to the planet by now, something
stopped her and now she's stuck...... We've got to let go of Aeris' memory.

---

The implication is, of course, that Aeris had not yet returned to the Planet. Nevertheless, the White Materia was glowing. Holy, then, had been ready long before it was released. However, the actual Magic was being blocked by Sephiroth. Recall this dialogue segment from the Key of the Ancients sequence (as I noted before):

Quote:

---

Cloud: Thank you... Aeris. Aeris' voice has already reached the Planet. Just
look at the glow of the White Materia. But...... how about Holy? How come Holy
isn't moving? Why?

Bugenhagen: Something's getting in its way.

Cloud: ......Him...... He's the only one that could do it....Sephiroth. Where
are you?

---

In essence, Aeris' prayer at the Water Altar was sufficient for the White Materia to be activated. The actual Holy Magic, however, was blocked by Sephiroth (likely due to the influence of the otherworldly JENOVA). Sephiroth's defeat allowed for Holy to be released, to the effects that we saw in the ending FMV sequences.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-Sephiroth never died before the end of the game; Cloud threw him into the Lifestream after he'd been stabbed, correct? But how did Sephiroth become imprisoned in what looked to be giant materia?

---

The matter of Sephiroth's imprisonment in materia was addressed in my initial post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by masamune1600

After Sephiroth was thrown into the depths of the reactor, his body floated through the Lifestream. Recall that Mako is compressed Spirit Energy and that Spirit Energy is the stuff of the Lifestream; it makes sense, then, that the reactor might tap the Lifestream in order to have a source of Spirit Energy to be converted to Mako. Once in the Lifestream, Sephiroth would have floated to his ultimate location at the Crater. As materia is crystallized Mako/Spirit Energy, and materia can form naturally, Sephiroth merely followed the Lifestream to that point.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kappy

When is VII's world referred to as Gaia? That's FFIX!

---

It's not referred to as "Gaia" in-game, but SE has since clarified that this is in fact the name of the planet. Refer to this site for a brief explanation.

I can't believe I missed this Thread. How the hell? D:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mo-Nercy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-Is it true that FFX and FFX-2 are prequels to FFVII? I've compared maps, and they seem very similar (FFVII's map has many more smaller islands broken off of main continents, and Spheres may, in fact, be early Materia, and much more abundant).

---

The only real "evidence" for that occurs in X-2 when Shinra says that the pyreflies of the Farplane can be harvested into some sort of fossil fuel. People instantly made the connection with Mako energy, which uses the Lifestream (more or less the same thing) to provide power to the masses. The fact that his name was Shinra also led people to believe that the little genius in FFX-2 would go on (or his descendants) to bring the dream to fruition etc. etc.

I think it's reasonable to say that Square just put it in as a bit of a tease. FFX-2 isn't a "serious" FF and it's set in a light-hearted sort of way. I'd just dismiss it as an attempt to be mildly humourous.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TurkSlayer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-Is it true that FFX and FFX-2 are prequels to FFVII? I've compared maps, and they seem very similar (FFVII's map has many more smaller islands broken off of main continents, and Spheres may, in fact, be early Materia, and much more abundant).

---

As far as we know, no they are not. It is not something officially stated by the game's creators. It is just a rumor.

---

As masamune1600 has shown with the link to my website, there's a good bit more to it than that. The writer of Final Fantasy VII, VIII, X, and X-2 has said that his intention with writing X-2 was that Shinra of the Gullwings would be the ancestor of the Shin-Ra Corporation's founders.

By the way, Shinra doesn't suggest that it's a fossil fuel. He outright calls it the lifeforce that lies within Spira. In other words, it's Spirit Energy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mo-Nercy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-What is Vincent precisely?

---

He's a former Turk. Hojo messed around with him (I don't think it was injection of Jenova cells like SOLDIER because he doesn't make Mako eyes, so it's something else evil and frankensteiny) and now he's a freak that can change forms.

---

Mako Eyes are the result of Mako infusion, anyway, not JENOVA Cell injections.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mo-Nercy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-How can Nanaki (Red XIII) reproduce if he is the last of his kind?

---

He may be similar to those animals that can reproduce without a mate (was that asexual, or is that something else *is confused*). Failing that, the world of FFVII is a very magical place. So a wizard did it.

---

As masamune pointed out, Bugenhagen's dialogue with Nanaki would suggest that there may yet be others like Nanaki in the world. Nanaki was the only one to say that Nanaki is the last of his kind, and the only evidence he had for that belief was that he hadn't seen any others of his kind. He was angsting and assuming it to be the case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mo-Nercy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-Throughout the game, Cloud hears a voice in his head, such as after he falls into the church and meets Aeris. Who is speaking to him? Is it Sephiroth?

---

I've always thought it was the real Cloud, a little bit of him that knows about his past and wants to help physical Cloud get back to himself. A pretty safe assumption because the voice stops after Tifa and Cloud take a dip in the lifestream.

---

Yes, it was definitely Cloud's subconscious. Here's a full explanation of this matter: Linkage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mo-Nercy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-At the end of the game, Sephiroth is destroyed, and so releases Aeris's spirit into the Lifestream, bringing her prayer for Holy to the planet to make it's decision, correct?

---

No. We hate Holy! Holy failed the Planet. Red XIII says that Holy is leaving the Planet and that it failed to protect it from Midgar. Aeris doesn't save anything because she prayed for Holy, not the lifestream. Her sacrifice was for nothing. As for her face appearing at the end, I've read that as a tribute to the price she paid to try and save the world. She had nothing to do with it IMO.

---

Nanaki didn't say that Holy was leaving the Planet. He said that it was too late for it to do its job. This was most likely because Holy had been held back for weeks. The Lifestream, by the way, didn't stop Meteor on its own. It merely added power to Holy, so Holy was still very much necessary.

One more thing: Aerith didn't sacrifice herself. Her death was as much a surprise to her as it was to everyone else. Go here for a full explanation: Linkage. Her death still proved beneficial to humanity in the end, as the implication offered by the story is that it was her spirit that had the Lifestream rise to give Holy the strength to face down Meteor to begin with (her theme playing as it rose, Marlene sensing her, and her face appearing in its wake).


[QUOTE=TurkSlayer]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-What exactly, was the purpose of all the Sephiroth clones with numbers tatooed on them, and why did some de, and some live, and what was reunion?

---

Hojo created them as an experiment, and they came because Jenova called them. Sephiroth only needed them to retreive the Black Materia, and that clone was of course (SPOILER)Cloud.

Just for clarification, he didn't "create" them exactly. As has been said, they were the other survivors of the Nibelheim massacre. Hojo injected them with JENOVA Cells and infused them with Mako.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

Also, reading my post again, I'm very certain that Shin-ra Inc. wasn't founded on another planet, as the maps are nearly identical. Look and see for yourselves.

I'm convinced it's the same planet- it's just that a whole continent is missing from the FFX map. It may be different in FFVII due to plate tectonics and lower water-levels. Yes, I know, I'm dumb.

---

Nojima said they are different Planets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by masamune1600

Nojima suggests that its true, and he has a certain amount of authority in the area. However, his idea, as currently construed, is wrought with MASSIVE plotholes (as a matter of fact, I view a few of the things he's said as impossibilities).

---

Why so? Nothing he said in any way contradicts the established history of Final Fantasy VII. The only thing that would require accounting for is the loss of advanced space trave technology, and considering that thousands of years would have needed to pass and that the Planet has endured JENOVA's assault in the past, there's reasonable room for an explanation regarding its loss right there.

The concept -- at least as of the time of the interview in 2003 -- hasn't been fully fleshed-out, but this is hardly a plothole as it wasn't a complete narrative.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by masamune1600

He can certainly make changes to make the idea more plausible, but, without rewriting the FFVII history, the task would be nearly Herculean. Frankly, I don't think that he'll be able to form a fully logical connection between Gaia and Spira that respects the histories of both worlds.

---

I'm sure he could. I can do so easily right now:

(Note: Keep in mind that Nojima said that Shinra was unsuccessful in properly implementing the concept of Mako extraction.)

1) 1000 years after X-2, Shinra's descendants -- for whatever reason -- go to Gaia.

2) There they encounter the Cetra, the native inhabitants of Gaia.

3) They introduce the Cetra to concepts like "leisure" and "chillin'," and many Cetra find that this easier lifestyle is appealing and give up their Cetra ways.

4) Sometime later, JENOVA arrives and launches its assault on the world.

5) The Common Homo Sapiens (the descendants of the Spirans and those Cetra who gave up the Cetra way of life) flee before JENOVA, leaving the few remaining Cetra to face JENOVA alone.

6) The few survivors mount an assault on the creature and successfully manage to confine it.

7) Sometime in the future, Shinra's descendants found the Shin-Ra Corporation, a weapon manufacturing company.

8) Sometime after that, Shin-Ra discovers the means to successfully implement their ancestor's concept of Mako extraction.

9) Some 2000 years after JENOVA was confined, it is discovered by Professor Gast.

10) The JENOVA Project and Mako Reactor No. 1 are approved.

11) The Wutai War occurs.

12) Shin-Ra developed new technology during the Wutai War, the concept of a rocket being among it.

13) Shin-Ra develops 26 rocket prototypes before developing one that will work.

14) The rocket launch is a failure due to Cid choosing Shera's life over his dream.

15) Shin-Ra scraps the Space Program as it realizes that Mako extraction is far more profitable.


There I've just layed out a very simple sequence of events in which things could occur without contradicing the established backstory of Final Fantasy VII in any manner, and which actually corresponds with what we're told in VII at several points. I'm sure Nojima could think of something similar, and probably better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JpO

And about the FFX(-2) and FFVII connections, now that I think about it, I doubt that the entire history of FFVII can take place within 1000 years on a different planet, nor can it possibly take place on Spira, because of Spira's own history.

---

Don't compress all of VII's known backstory into 1000 years. We're not given any kind of timeframe into which the sequence of events falls. All we know is that the events themselves occur. There's very little that VII's backstory gives us that actually has an established timeframe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kappy

When is VII's world referred to as Gaia? That's FFIX!

---

Square-Enix called it "Gaia" in an Advent Children pamphlet released at E3 in 2003. Further, in the game itself, the icy ledges at the top of the world are called "Gaia's Cliffs." Here's a link with more, including a scan of the pamphlet I mentioned: Linkage.


Anyway, Nojima's stated that the connection was his intention when he wrote X-2, and being that he was the Scenario Writer of VII, VIII, X, and X-2, I feel that he has the authority to make that call. I think it's accurate.

Guess theres no real reason for me to answer, but you should point out spoilers

[QUOTE=Squall of SeeD]I can't believe I missed this Thread. How the hell? D:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mo-Nercy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-Is it true that FFX and FFX-2 are prequels to FFVII? I've compared maps, and they seem very similar (FFVII's map has many more smaller islands broken off of main continents, and Spheres may, in fact, be early Materia, and much more abundant).

---

The only real "evidence" for that occurs in X-2 when Shinra says that the pyreflies of the Farplane can be harvested into some sort of fossil fuel. People instantly made the connection with Mako energy, which uses the Lifestream (more or less the same thing) to provide power to the masses. The fact that his name was Shinra also led people to believe that the little genius in FFX-2 would go on (or his descendants) to bring the dream to fruition etc. etc.

I think it's reasonable to say that Square just put it in as a bit of a tease. FFX-2 isn't a "serious" FF and it's set in a light-hearted sort of way. I'd just dismiss it as an attempt to be mildly humourous.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TurkSlayer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-Is it true that FFX and FFX-2 are prequels to FFVII? I've compared maps, and they seem very similar (FFVII's map has many more smaller islands broken off of main continents, and Spheres may, in fact, be early Materia, and much more abundant).

---

As far as we know, no they are not. It is not something officially stated by the game's creators. It is just a rumor.

---

As masamune1600 has shown with the link to my website, there's a good bit more to it than that. The writer of Final Fantasy VII, VIII, X, and X-2 has said that his intention with writing X-2 was that Shinra of the Gullwings would be the ancestor of the Shin-Ra Corporation's founders.

By the way, Shinra doesn't suggest that it's a fossil fuel. He outright calls it the lifeforce that lies within Spira. In other words, it's Spirit Energy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mo-Nercy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-What is Vincent precisely?

---

He's a former Turk. Hojo messed around with him (I don't think it was injection of Jenova cells like SOLDIER because he doesn't make Mako eyes, so it's something else evil and frankensteiny) and now he's a freak that can change forms.

---

Mako Eyes are the result of Mako infusion, anyway, not JENOVA Cell injections.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mo-Nercy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-How can Nanaki (Red XIII) reproduce if he is the last of his kind?

---

He may be similar to those animals that can reproduce without a mate (was that asexual, or is that something else *is confused*). Failing that, the world of FFVII is a very magical place. So a wizard did it.

---

As masamune pointed out, Bugenhagen's dialogue with Nanaki would suggest that there may yet be others like Nanaki in the world. Nanaki was the only one to say that Nanaki is the last of his kind, and the only evidence he had for that belief was that he hadn't seen any others of his kind. He was angsting and assuming it to be the case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mo-Nercy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-Throughout the game, Cloud hears a voice in his head, such as after he falls into the church and meets Aeris. Who is speaking to him? Is it Sephiroth?

---

I've always thought it was the real Cloud, a little bit of him that knows about his past and wants to help physical Cloud get back to himself. A pretty safe assumption because the voice stops after Tifa and Cloud take a dip in the lifestream.

---

Yes, it was definitely Cloud's subconscious. Here's a full explanation of this matter: Linkage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mo-Nercy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-At the end of the game, Sephiroth is destroyed, and so releases Aeris's spirit into the Lifestream, bringing her prayer for Holy to the planet to make it's decision, correct?

---

No. We hate Holy! Holy failed the Planet. Red XIII says that Holy is leaving the Planet and that it failed to protect it from Midgar. Aeris doesn't save anything because she prayed for Holy, not the lifestream. Her sacrifice was for nothing. As for her face appearing at the end, I've read that as a tribute to the price she paid to try and save the world. She had nothing to do with it IMO.

---

Nanaki didn't say that Holy was leaving the Planet. He said that it was too late for it to do its job. This was most likely because Holy had been held back for weeks. The Lifestream, by the way, didn't stop Meteor on its own. It merely added power to Holy, so Holy was still very much necessary.

One more thing: Aerith didn't sacrifice herself. Her death was as much a surprise to her as it was to everyone else. Go here for a full explanation: Linkage. Her death still proved beneficial to humanity in the end, as the implication offered by the story is that it was her spirit that had the Lifestream rise to give Holy the strength to face down Meteor to begin with (her theme playing as it rose, Marlene sensing her, and her face appearing in its wake).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TurkSlayer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

-What exactly, was the purpose of all the Sephiroth clones with numbers tatooed on them, and why did some de, and some live, and what was reunion?

---

Hojo created them as an experiment, and they came because Jenova called them. Sephiroth only needed them to retreive the Black Materia, and that clone was of course (SPOILER)Cloud.

Just for clarification, he didn't "create" them exactly. As has been said, they were the other survivors of the Nibelheim massacre. Hojo injected them with JENOVA Cells and infused them with Mako.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PjO

Also, reading my post again, I'm very certain that Shin-ra Inc. wasn't founded on another planet, as the maps are nearly identical. Look and see for yourselves.

I'm convinced it's the same planet- it's just that a whole continent is missing from the FFX map. It may be different in FFVII due to plate tectonics and lower water-levels. Yes, I know, I'm dumb.

---

Nojima said they are different Planets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by masamune1600

Nojima suggests that its true, and he has a certain amount of authority in the area. However, his idea, as currently construed, is wrought with MASSIVE plotholes (as a matter of fact, I view a few of the things he's said as impossibilities).

---

Why so? Nothing he said in any way contradicts the established history of Final Fantasy VII. The only thing that would require accounting for is the loss of advanced space trave technology, and considering that thousands of years would have needed to pass and that the Planet has endured JENOVA's assault in the past, there's reasonable room for an explanation regarding its loss right there.

The concept -- at least as of the time of the interview in 2003 -- hasn't been fully fleshed-out, but this is hardly a plothole as it wasn't a complete narrative.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by masamune1600

He can certainly make changes to make the idea more plausible, but, without rewriting the FFVII history, the task would be nearly Herculean. Frankly, I don't think that he'll be able to form a fully logical connection between Gaia and Spira that respects the histories of both worlds.

---

I'm sure he could. I can do so easily right now:

(Note: Keep in mind that Nojima said that Shinra was unsuccessful in properly implementing the concept of Mako extraction.)

1) 1000 years after X-2, Shinra's descendants -- for whatever reason -- go to Gaia.

2) There they encounter the Cetra, the native inhabitants of Gaia.

3) They introduce the Cetra to concepts like "leisure" and "chillin'," and many Cetra find that this easier lifestyle is appealing and give up their Cetra ways.

4) Sometime later, JENOVA arrives and launches its assault on the world.

5) The Common Homo Sapiens (the descendants of the Spirans and those Cetra who gave up the Cetra way of life) flee before JENOVA, leaving the few remaining Cetra to face JENOVA alone.

6) The few survivors mount an assault on the creature and successfully manage to confine it.

7) Sometime in the future, Shinra's descendants found the Shin-Ra Corporation, a weapon manufacturing company.

8) Sometime after that, Shin-Ra discovers the means to successfully implement their ancestor's concept of Mako extraction.

9) Some 2000 years after JENOVA was confined, it is discovered by Professor Gast.

10) The JENOVA Project and Mako Reactor No. 1 are approved.

11) The Wutai War occurs.

12) Shin-Ra developed new technology during the Wutai War, the concept of a rocket being among it.

13) Shin-Ra develops 26 rocket prototypes before developing one that will work.

14) The rocket launch is a failure due to Cid choosing Shera's life over his dream.

15) Shin-Ra scraps the Space Program as it realizes that Mako extraction is far more profitable.


There I've just layed out a very simple sequence of events in which things could occur without contradicing the established backstory of Final Fantasy VII in any manner, and which actually corresponds with what we're told in VII at several points. I'm sure Nojima could think of something similar, and probably better.

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Originally Posted by JpO

And about the FFX(-2) and FFVII connections, now that I think about it, I doubt that the entire history of FFVII can take place within 1000 years on a different planet, nor can it possibly take place on Spira, because of Spira's own history.

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Don't compress all of VII's known backstory into 1000 years. We're not given any kind of timeframe into which the sequence of events falls. All we know is that the events themselves occur. There's very little that VII's backstory gives us that actually has an established timeframe.

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Originally Posted by Kappy

When is VII's world referred to as Gaia? That's FFIX!

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Square-Enix called it "Gaia" in an Advent Children pamphlet released at E3 in 2003. Further, in the game itself, the icy ledges at the top of the world are called "Gaia's Cliffs." Here's a link with more, including a scan of the pamphlet I mentioned: Linkage.


Anyway, Nojima's stated that the connection was his intention when he wrote X-2, and being that he was the Scenario Writer of VII, VIII, X, and X-2, I feel that he has the authority to make that call. I think it's accurate.

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...what he said...

Lunatic, that is an unnecessary post. Please delete it.

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Originally Posted by Squall of SeeD

I'm sure he could. I can do so easily right now:

(Note: Keep in mind that Nojima said that Shinra was unsuccessful in properly implementing the concept of Mako extraction.)

1) 1000 years after X-2, Shinra's descendants -- for whatever reason -- go to Gaia.
Shinra is a very curious boy, no doubt as a curious man, he would have instilled a sense of exploration and wonder in his children (and thus his descendants) which would no doubt evolve to a desire for space travel. With the support of Rin's descendants no doubt.


2) There they encounter the Cetra, the native inhabitants of Gaia.

3) They introduce the Cetra to concepts like "leisure," and many Cetra find that this easier lifestyle is appealing and give up their Cetra ways.
Sephiroth
"But, those that disliked the journey appeared. Those who stopped their migrations, built shelters, and elected to lead an easier life."
"They took that which the Cetra and the planet had made without giving one whit in return!"
"Those are your ancestors."

4) Sometime later, JENOVA arrives and launches its assault on the world.
I imagine that Shinra's space-traveling descendants would have already encountered Jenova, but were simply unaware of what it was.

5) The common Homo Sapiens (the descendants of the Spirans and those Cetra who gave up the Cetra way of life) flee before JENOVA, leaving the few remaining Cetra to face JENOVA alone.
Actually, I don't think the "lazy Cetra" would have become "common Homo Sapiens." I mean, that's not quite how Ifalna describes it. Wait, did she go into that at all? Anyway, Aeris is described as being half-Cetra, which would make her half-Homosapien, which would mean Ifalna (and any other Cetra) was not at all a Homosapien.

6) The few survivors mount an assault on the creature and successfully manage to confine it.

7) Sometime in the future, Shinra's descendants found the Shin-Ra Corporation, a weapons manufacturing company.
I'd say at least 1900 years, I never heard of any manufacturing company that's lasted more than 100 years.

8) Sometime after that, the Shin-Ra discover the means to successfully implement their ancestor's concept of Mako extraction.
Judging by my previous edit, at least 100 years later.

9) Some 2000 years after JENOVA was confined, it is discovered by Professor Gast.

10) The JENOVA Project and construction of Mako Reactor No. 1 are approved.

11) The Wutai War occurs.
Goro of Wutai, greedy for power and jealous of Shinra's might, lays siege to their shores.

12) Shin-Ra developed new technology during the Wutai War, the concept of a rocket being among it.
Obviously, during the Jenova attack, many scientists would have been killed and thus space-travel technology would have been temporarily lost and forgotten.

13) Shin-Ra develops 26 rocket prototypes before developing one that will work.

14) The rocket launch is a failure due to Cid choosing Shera's life over his dream.

15) Shin-Ra scraps the Space Program as it realizes that Mako extraction is far more profitable.

There I've just layed out a very simple sequence of events in which things could occur without contradicing the established backstory of Final Fantasy VII in any manner, and which actually corresponds with what we're told in VII at several points. I'm sure Nojima could think of something similar, and probably better.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

I imagine that Shinra's space-traveling descendants would have already encountered Jenova, but were simply unaware of what it was.

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Why?

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Actually, I don't think the "lazy Cetra" would have become "common Homo Sapiens." I mean, that's not quite how Ifalna describes it. Wait, did she go into that at all? Anyway, Aeris is described as being half-Cetra, which would make her half-Homosapien, which would mean Ifalna (and any other Cetra) was not at all a Homosapien.

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All that seperates the Cetra from the other Homo Sapiens are their lifestyles. Being a Cetra is not a genetic thing, but a spiritual one. After Sephiroth reads the record of the Cetra who gave up their journeys, he says to Zack "Those are your ancestors." Considering that the journals belonged to Dr. Gast and that he was a scholar of the Cetra who spent time studying at Cosmo Canyon, it's safe to assume that he was right.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

The JENOVA Project and construction of Mako Reactor No. 1 are approved.

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The game merely says the "use of" Mako Reactor No. 1.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Goro of Wutai, greedy for power and jealous of Shinra's might, lays siege to their shores.

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Considering that Shin-Ra is ran by a bunch of greedy bastards and that they would have probably already controlled most of the world, it's probably a safe bet that they were the aggressor during that war, not Godo.

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Originally Posted by Squall of SeeD

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Originally Posted by masamune1600

Nojima suggests that its true, and he has a certain amount of authority in the area. However, his idea, as currently construed, is wrought with MASSIVE plotholes (as a matter of fact, I view a few of the things he's said as impossibilities).

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Why so? Nothing he said in any way contradicts the established history of Final Fantasy VII. The only thing that would require accounting for is the loss of advanced space trave technology, and considering that thousands of years would have needed to pass and that the Planet has endured JENOVA's assault in the past, there's reasonable room for an explanation regarding its loss right there.

The concept -- at least as of the time of the interview in 2003 -- hasn't been fully fleshed-out, but this is hardly a plothole as it wasn't a complete narrative.

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The all-important question, however, is whether the concept retains validity if it is not definitively explored in the Compilation. This also brings Nomura and Kitase into the issue. Even if they don't publically denounce the idea (or even if one or both is neutral to it), I don't think the connection will receive adequate exploration without their approval.

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Originally Posted by Squall of SeeD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by masamune1600

He can certainly make changes to make the idea more plausible, but, without rewriting the FFVII history, the task would be nearly Herculean. Frankly, I don't think that he'll be able to form a fully logical connection between Gaia and Spira that respects the histories of both worlds.

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I'm sure he could. I can do so easily right now:

(Note: Keep in mind that Nojima said that Shinra was unsuccessful in properly implementing the concept of Mako extraction.)

1) 1000 years after X-2, Shinra's descendants -- for whatever reason -- go to Gaia.

2) There they encounter the Cetra, the native inhabitants of Gaia.

3) They introduce the Cetra to concepts like "leisure" and "chillin'," and many Cetra find that this easier lifestyle is appealing and give up their Cetra ways.

4) Sometime later, JENOVA arrives and launches its assault on the world.

5) The Common Homo Sapiens (the descendants of the Spirans and those Cetra who gave up the Cetra way of life) flee before JENOVA, leaving the few remaining Cetra to face JENOVA alone.

6) The few survivors mount an assault on the creature and successfully manage to confine it.

7) Sometime in the future, Shinra's descendants found the Shin-Ra Corporation, a weapon manufacturing company.

8) Sometime after that, Shin-Ra discovers the means to successfully implement their ancestor's concept of Mako extraction.

9) Some 2000 years after JENOVA was confined, it is discovered by Professor Gast.

10) The JENOVA Project and Mako Reactor No. 1 are approved.

11) The Wutai War occurs.

12) Shin-Ra developed new technology during the Wutai War, the concept of a rocket being among it.

13) Shin-Ra develops 26 rocket prototypes before developing one that will work.

14) The rocket launch is a failure due to Cid choosing Shera's life over his dream.

15) Shin-Ra scraps the Space Program as it realizes that Mako extraction is far more profitable.


There I've just layed out a very simple sequence of events in which things could occur without contradicing the established backstory of Final Fantasy VII in any manner, and which actually corresponds with what we're told in VII at several points. I'm sure Nojima could think of something similar, and probably better.

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Well, there are a few major issues, and several minor ones. The lesser issues might be looked at as petty, but I feel that anything that compromises either story would make explicating the theory ill-advised.

Some of the issues that would need to be addressed might include:

What happened to the space travel technology? While it could easily have been destroyed, it seems unlikely that everyone with knowledge of it would have been killed or otherwise rendered incapable of passing the information. Attempts to retain the knowledge would have been particularly critical given that the Spirans would have been forever cut off from their home world. Also, it seems impossible that the idea of space travel would have been eradicated. Were that the case, one would think that the peoples of Gaia might have developed space-capable rocketry before advanced robotics and doomsday weaponry. Finally, the lack of archaelogical evidence would need to be explained. Given the discovery of JENOVA and the work at Bone Village, it seems strange that no remnants of the interstellar equipment were at anytime unearthed. Noting that FFVII was developed long before FFX/X-2 doesn't help here; it's the responsibility of the writer to incorporate new material within the boundaries of the old framework when working retroactively.

Why was the ideal of Mako energy retained? Given that Shinra's descendents ultimately became the leaders of a corrupt, amoral, and ultimately greedy organization, it seems absurd that they would have dedicated any amount of resources to researching a far-removed dream. True, Mako energy turned out to be profitable, but why would the concept have ever reached that stage? Shinra certainly didn't put any great amount of effort into space/rocket resarch, which one might assume would have taken on the qualities of an ideal after the technology was lost.

Why are the Farplane and the Lifestream markedly different? Since we assume the same universe, this spiritual gap must be called into question. This is especially relevant since JENOVA, in being contrary to the Lifestream, seems to fit within the FFVII spiritual framework. For that matter, why doesn't Gaia have pyreflies or fayth? The domains of the soul seem unrelated in many ways, and I think this would be far more difficult to explain than certain material differences.

I can think of possible explanations for all of these questions, although I don't find them very satisfactory. Moreover, it would be almost impossible to address every detail which could (and I feel should) be called into question. Therein lies my main complaint. It's unrealistic to expect a Compilation piece taking place on Gaia to adequately address every issue, which inevitably leads to plotholes, ambiguities, and contradictions. Gaia and Spira both have incredible stories; I feel it would be unfair to both to force them together.

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Originally Posted by Squall of SeeD

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Originally Posted by JpO

And about the FFX(-2) and FFVII connections, now that I think about it, I doubt that the entire history of FFVII can take place within 1000 years on a different planet, nor can it possibly take place on Spira, because of Spira's own history.

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Don't compress all of VII's known backstory into 1000 years. We're not given any kind of timeframe into which the sequence of events falls. All we know is that the events themselves occur. There's very little that VII's backstory gives us that actually has an established timeframe.

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As currently construed, FFVII's backstory extends far beyond 1000 years anyway. All in-game evidence points to JENOVA having been contained ~2000 years, and Ifalna's testimony in the Icicle Inn tapes gives us details of that general period.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Wait, did she go into that at all?

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She didn't. Here's exactly what Ifalna said in the first tape, which dealt with the long-ago events.

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The Original Crisis

Gast: Camera's ready! Then, Ifalna, please tell us about the Cetra.

Ifalna: 2000 years ago, our ancestors, the Cetra, heard the cries of the
Planet. The first ones to discover the Planet's wound were the Cetra at
the Knowlespole.

Gast: Tell us Ifalna... Where is the land called 'Knowlespole'?

Ifalna: Knowlespole refers to this area [The northern continent]. The Cetra
then began a Planet-reading.

Gast: Ifalna, what exactly does Planet-reading entail?

Ifalna: ...I can't explain it very well, but it's like having a conversation
with the Planet... It said something fell from the sky making a large wound.
Thousands of Cetra pulled together, trying to heal the Planet... But, due to
the severity of the wound, it was only able to heal itself, over many years.

Gast: Do the Ancients, rather, the Cetra, have special powers to heal the
Planet?

Ifalna: No, it's not that kind of power. The life force of all living things
on this Planet becomes the energy. The Cetra tried desperately to cultivate
the land so as not to diminish the needed energy...

Gast: Hmm, even here so close to the North Cave, the snow never melts. Is
that because the planet's energy is gathered here to heal its injury?

Ifalna: Yes, the energy that was needed to heal the Planet withered away the
land... then the Planet... The Planet tried to persuade the Cetra to leave the
Knowlespole, but...

Gast: "Ifalna... Let's take a break."

Ifalna: I'm all right... When the Cetra... were preparing to part with the
land they loved... That's when it appeared! It looked like... our... our dead
mothers... and our dead brothers. Showing us spectres of their past.

Gast: Who is the person that appeared at the North Cave? I haven't any idea.

Ifalna: That's when the one who injured the Planet... or the 'crisis from the
sky', as we call him, came. He first approached as a friend, deceived them,
and finally...... gave them the virus. The Cetra were attacked by the virus
and went mad... transforming into monsters. Then, just as he had at the
Knowlespole. He approached other Cetra clans...... infecting them with... the
virus...

Gast: You don't look well... Let's call it a day.

(End of film)

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The second tape revolved exclusively around WEAPON, and the confinement of JENOVA by the "remaining Cetra." The third and fourth tapes were recorded shortly after Aeris' birth.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Goro of Wutai, greedy for power and jealous of Shinra's might, lays siege to their shores.

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The name is Godo. This thread deals with answering some rather involuted questions about FFVII, so it's probably not the best time to bring up the idea that you find the name given in the game unsatisfactory (I'm guessing that's what you were getting at). It might confuse people.

And, as Squall pointed out, Shinra was almost certainly the aggressor. I doubt Godo would have attacked Shinra, given that Wutai's defeat destroyed much of its culture.