most rpg's look pretty...but suck...either its the story or that crappy lead hero...why...what ever happened to the good old days...when there was more good than bad...i mean the last good rpg on a console was 10...which was ok...will 12 be good?...will there ever be solid rpg's that are original...fun...exciting...???...i'm worried about the future of rpg's................but i could be wrong....so let me know...eyesonffer's...what u think
I dont think they suck
But they dont make them like they used too.........
What's wrong with Jade Empire? Or Morrowind? Or the upcoming Oblivion? Granted, Morrowind's graphics aren't too great. But if someone's complaining about them, I can't see how they made it through some FF games.
The future of RPGs isn't worth worrying about.
never said i found every rpg from the past 5 years to suck...i mean kotor didn't or kotor 2 but c'mon...that's like under 5 games in the past 3 years...compare that to the late days of the snes crono...ffVI...secret of mana...star ocean...breath of fire 2...i can go on
ToS doesn't suck. FFX doesn't suck. FFX-2 doesn't suck. FFXI doesn't suck. SO3 doesn't suck. Disgaea doesn't suck. I don't really get what you're trying to say.
rpgs will die out. they will die out for the same reason platformers have. people demand more these days. things are becoming more and more close knit. before there was true definition between platformer and action. now the line is blurred. rpg's will go the same way. the turn based system is already on the way out. character building has crossed genre via gta.
in a view years only 3 genres will really exist. action, driving and puzzle.
rpgs are a dying genre mainly because it has been done and has no real progression in it. the way platformers were. the only progression that can be made is to make them closer to the action genre.
It's just you.
You see more bad RPGs these days because more are being brought over. There are still a plethora of quality RPGs around.
I think I know what you mean.
I don't think they Suck, but I don't like the art-styles alot of RPG's are going for now.
I guess I just miss 2D.
(Wishes we had a Gravestone Symbol)
Bye 2D. :cry:
Well, now's the time to go back and play all those classic rpgs we've missed.
whoa...i never said those games sucked....i said 10 was good...now back on track...my point is that there is more crap than quality...therefore how will this affect rpg's...and hey kingdom hearts is an awesome game...but i too miss 2d rpgs...they feel right...oh wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
I have liked a few new generation RPG's, but I don't think we'll ever see something like the glory of the SNES RPG and PSX RPG era.
Of course people are going to run out of ideas, but it looks like SE, as well as many others, still have a lot of tricks up their sleeve
i have to agree with gooey
Why very so?? A waste of life, Perhaps??Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryűkishi
I would say Square-Enix sucks now, but not RPG's in general.
Games in general are getting worse.
You're noticing this about 7 years too late. You should have said this as soon as FFVII came out.
Most new rpgs are just plain hack and slash, or diablo clones. They aren't even true RPGs anymore. Sure, there are some exceptions (KotOR), but mostly they just plainly suck.
What happened to games like Albion, Lands of Lore or Baldurs Gate? :mad2:
They don't have teh summ0ns.
those past FFVII tend to lose their touch that they have in the past, if you looked at NES games and SNES games they were way better. The problem now is that even if we used sprites, its not realistic or graphically good enough for people which is lame. Hence why my love for platformers and old school RPGs will continue and who actually won the video game wars, was the GBA.
true.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Mage
Actually, you might well be right shadowtheninja.
I played my first FF game, which was FF VIII, in May 2005. I was amazed how great the game was. I liked absolutely everything about it: the graphics, the fmvs, the story, the music and so on. Now, without being to critical on Microsoft or Blizzard, it clearly kicked Dungeon Siege and Diablo 2 out of the field. The only thing that I felt a little sad about was the fact that FFVIII had no multiplayer.
In my eyes, Square and Enix games are something special. They are made in a completely different style from other RPGs. I mean, the story, the characters and the deepness of the theme. Other publishers just do not use this style and make clones of Diablo. This was already said on a gaming TV channel (I actually used to have one back then),"And here is a great game from Microsoft, called Dungeon Siege. It starts in a farm in the middle of nowhere and appears to have a really nice plot... Feel free to add it to your Diablo-like-games-bookcase as soon as you buy it."
However, I do not think that good RPG is going to die. What it is doing, is transforming into a new class of RPG games. The cause for this event is the appearance of DSL and Broadband at our homes, which permits us having huge worlds with thousands of players run in a real time environment. Even Final Fantasy has gone online now with FFXI.
So like it or not, its time to get that old 56k thrown away if you want a fun experience with a new game.
NOTE: I didn't play FFX and FFX-2, so I can't really judge them, but as I said Square-Enix is like Konami, a publisher on its own.
Who cares?
You obviously dont play too many RPG's.
Of course they don't, it's called progress. It's the same thinking that means we aren't still riding horses, slapping our wives about and then bragging about it in public, or assuming that the world is flat.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbi8
Really, RPGs aren't any better or worse, they're just different. Whether or not it's any better or worse is subjective. Personally I think the RPG is finally coming out of the dark-ages (read The Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Deus Ex, etc.).
The fact that you consider Deus Ex "the dark ages" means you need to die.
Right now.
I don't really think they changed that much. I'm not even much of an RPG-er anyway, I only like Final Fantasy in that category. I like FFIX the best of them, and that's one of the newer FFs. I never found FFI to be incredibly appealing, though it is fun to play sometimes. I'm a story whore for video games.
All rpg's suck, imo, but I'm not into rpg's. The only one I liked was Morrowind, but that's because of the nude patch, because for some reason being able to go on a game, "talk" to a girl, get some mushroom for her from some balding fellow on some cliff somewhere, then murder herl and take off her clothes to see pixelated nipples turned me on. Not the blue girls though. The rest of the game I didn't like.
RPGs are becoming less like novels. I'd equate the PSX era FFs as living, breathing stories that I was always dieing to find out what happened in. Except I got to choose how the characters actually resolved their violent conflicts, and that was great.
Recently, I've seen far less of these types of games that really draw me in. BOF5 was tedious, WA3 just wasn't that fun, and FFX-2 just felt like it was FFX gone horribly wrong. Tales Of Symphonia was the only one released in the last couple of years that's really drawn me in, though it was lacking originality.
I'm not too worried though, sooner or later some plucky young/old programmer for some company is going to get promoted to a position where he can finally develop and release the masterpiece he's been slowly writing in the back of his mind for years. Annny time now...
Makia Kingdom doesn't suck. Phantom Brave doesn't suck. La Pucelle Tactics didn't suck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
Radiata Stories is looking good.........
I agree, there going downhill. I think is just them with jar jar binks syndrome, technologys gotten better so must there games, also I blame action fans. RPG makers seem to be going for them and noobs.
Well, I don't agree with you at all, but this is all a matter of opinion anyways, so it doesn't matter either way.
Well theres only so many things they can do before its not original anymore..its harder to come up with something different when most things are already implimented or tried upon.
I think that many people love old RPGs just as much for the nostalgia as they do for the game itself, so that's one quality newer titles lack. Sure, it's harder to be original now, but I think, with the additions of voice acting, improved graphics, and more emphasis on real-time stuff, RPGs could become much, much more vivid and lifelike than they have before. I wouldn't worry about the genre as a whole, at least not for a few years.
well look at it this way...if ff12 sucks...eyesonff might have a fit...then everyone'll play VI to remember why they like these damn games
That not really a case with me. I played games under DOS that were released for SNES back then in my younger years. I mainly played jump-and-runs and fighting games. No RPGs at all. Well there was one that was a little similar to an RPG just because you could equip your teams and set ststs, but really no old RPGs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azar With A Hat
However, I really like SNES RPGs, often more than the newer ones, and thats clearly no nostalgia.
Uh, what exactly are you blaming action fans for?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuggly Blight
Uh ok, let me rephrase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rengori
The fighting in FFX-2 doesn't suck. And it makes up for the sub-par story.
I blame them because they are beeing targeted more and more and more to play these games, and are being catered for more and more and more by making them more action based games.
Yeah I still dont see why you're blaming them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuggly Blight
There isn't really any change in the stylings of games.
The west has always made more action orientated games, and the Japanese have made more RPGs, purely because they are the most popular genres in those areas.
it's not the fans. it's the genre. it's dying. like platformers. the requirement for existence is becoming less. the technology is there to create a more action orientated rpg. and since the technology there the requirement exists also. rpgs seem old hat compared to games that are more realistic and life like. that's why gta will continue to expand what you can do and it's rog elements as well. one day games like gta will be all there is. it will get to a stage were free roaming, do what you want, when you want, advancement is 99% of games.
An advancement in technology won't lead to that.
The entire industry isn't driven purely by profit, shockingly SOME companies make games not only because they'll sell, but because it's what they want to make, and what the fans will want as well.
As long as there are people to play RPGs, they'll still exist, and I seriously doubt that the Japanese will cease to place RPGs as their preferred genre.
what the fans want is what sells. they two go hand in hand.
rpg's won't suddenly die off the shelves. it is a slow process. look at XII already the end of random battles and turn based battles. that was something that had to come.the line will just continue to become more and more blurred.
Wait, they took out random battles too? In a strategy RPG, that's fine, they usually have something like Item World or Random Dungeons to make up for it, but now that I hear that the random battles died too, I'm really hoping Enix pulls through with DW8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud No.9
it's a slow erosion of the genre. noone can do anything about it. it's progression pulled by technology.
look at kingdom hearts if you want to know where rpgs are headed when it comes to fighting systems.
Kingdom Hearts was more or less a ripoff of Zelda's system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud No.9
yeah that's how things are gonna progress. and it won't be long until we have stealth sections in rpg's and driving sections. yeah it's all down hill from here.
O_O FF12...No random battles. C'mon now!! And I thought FFXII was gonna be my fav...Damn!!
Not having random battles is a progression.
i fail to see how the death of an rpg trait can be progression...its more of a sacrifice if u ask me...an unnecessary one
How so might I ask?Quote:
Originally Posted by Azar With A Hat
Uh, it's not like FF12 is the first game to not have random encounters. The Secret of mana games didn't have them either, nor did the Chrono series, plus a load of other games I don't remember the name of.
I say it was about time FF got rid of random encounters too (though that happened in FF11, not FF12), I much more prefer to atleast see a graphical representation of the enemy in the field, so I can choose not to fight it.
Technically the Seiken Densetu series are Adventure games.
The word erosion used in the context of gaming?
Looks like somebody is deathly afraid of a little thing called CHANGE.
Also, you're late, there have already been plenty of RPGs with stealth and driving sections.
FF7 had a driving mini-game when leaving Midgar, did it not?
The first time you ecountered Gnosis in Xenosaga you had to be steathy and avoid them.
Dying genre! Dying genre!
And Seiken Densetu aren't adventure games at all.
Well they sort of are. But I personally always considered them to be RPG's.Quote:
Originally Posted by MecaKane
I completely have a lower opinion of people when they are like OMG FFXII IS GOING TO SUCK BECAUSE OF NO RANDOM BATTLES! -_- Psh..that proves nothing. Lets be stagnant then. We either complain about no progress or when we do have progress we dont like it. Suck it up seriously, if you dont like it dont buy it, they dont have to make it perfect to your liking, and personally i like to see how this game pans out. Playing FFXI and seeing FFXII(with their mandragoras in there too..cuteee :3 ) having similar playstyle makes me want to play it. Seems interesting and great to play.
If you wanna get technical RPGs can be any game since you are role playing someone, or a D&D game. FFVII even has non-RPG elements in them, it doesnt always have to flow the same way, its all about pushing new grounds while at the same time have games that also perfect old ones.
I do not believe RPGs are dying as long as people enjoy them as well as platformers. Rereleases of old Mario games show that platformers dont die really, and Mario 64 rocks.
Another quick point about that odd race, the Japanese.
They love RPGs over everything, and really don't like action games, action games sell terribly in Japan and the only kind that even come close to selling well are easy games.
Devil May Cry 2 sold very well in Japan, Resident Evil 4 sold a good amount purely because the Japanese version had an easy mode.
The Japanese like teamwork, which RPGs provide, instead of lone hero action games, and because of that Japanese companies will keep pumping out RPGs that'll filter over here.
And don't say "zomg but ff is teh japanese", most Japanese people don't even play FF games, they're mostly for the west. Games such as Dragon Warrior are most popular, proven by the fact that it is ILLEGAL to sell a Dragon Warrior game on a weekday because children will skip school in order to buy and play it.
If you've ever seen a Dragon Warrior game then you'll understand how RPGs, for the Japanese anyway, aren't changing much at all.
I think they're going to decline though. The problem isn't that technology makes rpgs obsolete. It's that the makers are getting a bit lazy, especially in the story department. They're predictable now.
http://serpent231.tripod.com/cliche.shtml
16-bit plot. Standard RPG plot. The Corrupt Empire rules the world. You're the leader of a small rebel band. Overthrow the Empire. Usually the hero is a soldier for the Empire at the start of the game (as in Suikoden, Vandal~Hearts, or FF6), but soon realizes that the Empire is evil and joins the fight against them. General standard for RPG plots.
32-bit plot. Similar to a 16-bit plot, but somehow religion is involved.
Ability Loss. Whenever you fight a character before they join you, they have abilities that they can't use once they actually join. (see young Rydia, Yuffie, Sonya in Suikoden)
Airship. Every RPG has a flying vehicle, usually an airship or a flying dragon, which is obtained near the very end of the game. (although in FF games, you tend to get the airship sooner).
Ancients, The. Ubiquitous race that vanished long ago (typically 1000 years ago), but left behind advanced technology. Usually, however, one of your party members is a female magic-user who is the last Ancient or a member of some other special race. (Terra, Aerith, Rydia, Mariel, Eleni in Vandal~Hearts, Asellus, etc.)
Asbestos Rule. If something is burning as part of the storyline, it will not burn down until whatever you have to do there is accomplished, yet it stays burning. (See the burning house in FF6 or any burning town)
Atheist rule. All priests and churches are up to no good (the same with rich guys). Religions that do not involve priests and/or churches are ok (Wild Arms) and in fact are always on your side.
Backwards Day. Whenever somebody tells you not to do something or go someplace, you should.
Blues Brothers Rule. The heroes are always right, no matter what they do. Whatever side the heroes are on is the good side.
Bonus Boss. Feature of many recent RPGs. Extremely tough boss that you don't have to beat to win the game and is just there as an added challenge. (Weapons, Elidibs, EarthDragon, ArchMage, Ragu Ragla, etc.) Usually, you get some really powerful item for winning that isn't at all useful because if you're tough enough to beat the boss, you don't need it. (Like the Sherrif Star in Wild Arms or the master materia from the Weapons)
Cait Sith's Rule.. Whenever a character permanently leaves the party (due to death or otherwise), all their items and equipment are usually returned to you. So named for the absurdity of Cait Sith No. 2 inheriting all of No. 1's experience, equipment, and Materia, even though No. 1 was crushed in the temple. (Of course, we all know what really happened to Cait Sith No. 2 ^_^) Very weird in FF8, especially parts when allies seem to be dead but you still can equip and un-equip them (Missile Base)
Leo's rule. Any bad guy that turns good dies, except for characters (Kain, Magus, the generals in Suikoden, Edea) that were possessed by or under the control of one of the truly evil characters.
Life's A Sport... Mad scientists to turn themselves into a monster (by drinking something or injecting something into themsleves) when you fight them (see Cort in BOF1, Hojo in FF7, Palet in BOF3, etc.)
Mithril. Usually, you have to find some sort of rare or precious mineral (generally mithril) to repair or upgrade something.
Party Compulsion Rule. After a character joins the party, they never permanently leave (unless they are killed) even if their storyline would cause them to part ways at some point. Through some silly plot device, the character decides to come with the party anyway (for example, in FF7, Red XIII is about to leave the party when you get to Cosmo Canyon, but Bugenhagen tells him to go with Cloud).
Prison Rescue. Whenever the party is thrown in prison, somebody immediately shows up to rescue them.
Prison Rule #2. When you're thrown in prison, your captors never bother to take your weapons and other equipment. (exception: Tales of Phantasia)
Self Help Booklet. Sequence right before the final boss (sometimes occurs elsewhere in addition) in which every character proclaims their reason for fighting against evil and what they've learned on their journey in an excess of melodrama. Named after Kefka's awesome "This is pathetic! You sound like chapters from a self help booklet! Prepare yourselves!" line in FF6 after such a sequence.
Typical Bad Guy Cut Scene.A scene where the Main Bad Guy is in a room with four lesser bad guys. He tells weakest of the lesser bad guys to kill the only threat to his plans. Weakest fails, of course, so the second weakest is sent out. Repeat until all four are dead, then all four are revived around the end. The third bad guy is almost always the only female one. Slight variations may apply. (Secret of Stars, Final Fantasy 4, Magic Knight Rayearth)
You see the point. these happen in almost every game out there, and it isn't a great story if I know the "plot twist" before it happens. If you see a church, it's evil, etc etc etc. So I think as more RPG fans get bored with the same old thing over and over, they'll move on to other types of game
and to the person who was waiting on stealth in an RPG -- already happened. FF6 dude.
What I want is some old fashioned betrayals, characters with a flaws (i.e a playable jakht), and bad guys with some depth, ie not simply trying to rule, but trying to do something that he thinks is good but it isn't. Maybe the hero could be a little bit "dark side" as well, and have the townspeople mad at him for it.
Tales of Symphonia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnostic Yevon
Kratos and Zelos betray you, and both characters are deeply flawed, along with Presea's inability to deal with normal emotions, or Regal's guilt at his "crime". Mithos/Yggdrasil is trying to save Martel by controlling the mana flow of the two worlds and the people of Iselia hate Lloyd after he went against their aggreement with the Desians.
*applause*Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindy
Really now. Do little things like a there being optional bosses, a character being stronger when you fight him than when he's in your party, and items going back to your inventory after he leaves or dies actually take away from your enjoyment of the game?
Asbestos Rule. If something is burning as part of the storyline, it will not burn down until whatever you have to do there is accomplished, yet it stays burning. (See the burning house in FF6 or any burning town)
RPGs aren't in real time, I thought the battles would clue you into that one.
they soon will be in real time. that's something that is being established.
With regards to storylines, i think we are all getting a little older and the stories aren't as bright and new as they once were. It's a tradegy that with age you lose the ability to be filled with wonder for something new as it is never new to you anymore.
Hey teamwork is for me D: i like japanese playstyle. I dont like action games so pump out that RPG. Cept fighting games :x
And?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud No.9
I still don't get your point.
Just because some new RPGs are like this, it doesn't mean that all previous games following an older style will be destroyed forever, go back and play old games if you're that deathly opposed to change.
It's not even only new ones, the entire Mana series has been in real time, and even the SNES Final Fantasys having ATBs. Meanwhile, Xenosaga and Suikoden still have it so if it's your character's turn you can leave it there, un paused for hours, without the enemy making a move at all. Suikoden IV still has the system where you plan out your entire party's moves before any attack is made. If change in the Final Fantasy series is change for everything, it's coming in very slowly.
lindy i never said i was opposed to it. in fact increasing the realism of games i am all for.
and we are talking about progress here s old games are irrelevant.
before different games represented different parts of general life (not real life but you get the point) you have the driving, the shooting, the thinking, the collecting, the organising, the solving. all that is happening is that these are all getting woven together. and that i am all for.
and it's not just the rpgs becoming more action oreintated. action games are getting rpg elements. they will meet in the middle.
hey u guys...don't get me wrong...i like ff games...and 12 may be a solid game lionx...the reason i started this thread was due to the fact that most of the games even rpgs are crap i never singled out any game...so don't bite my head off about bitching...my point was that rpgs have changed...maybe for the better...trust me i'll play ff12 no matter what people say about it...my opinion matters more to me in a case like that not adam sessler or morgan webb's...i just noticed that most of the rpgs coming out are either average or they suck...don't get mad at me for the truth...now i'm not singling out any game *alter iris* cough...but i really like rpgs...they are my escape from this crappy world...don't hate...bitch's
You just singled out Alter Iris.
Thanks for ENTIRELY changing your stance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud No.9
Earlier, you said that realism and additions like this to game was an EROSION of the genre, now you say you're all for it?
Please, make your mind up.
And guys, it's spelt Atelier Iris, not Alter, a game which is clearly successful, as it already has a sequel out in Japan.
saying it's an erosion did not imply i was against it. it's a slow unchanging process.
Erosion is a negative term, so it does.
yeah well it sucks...deal with it...other honerable suck ass games include arc the lad...er and some more...Quote:
And guys, it's spelt Atelier Iris, not Alter, a game which is clearly successful, as it already has a sequel out in Japan.
and hey singling out alter was a joke dude...but that doesn't mean i don't think it sucked...because it did
In your opinion it sucked, in the opinion of all the people who bought it, and enjoyed it enough to spawn a sequel, it didn't "suck", and I think by sheer majority it pretty much proves your thinking invalid.
Arc The Lad is also another game that was popular enough to have a trilogy, then an extra-release box set, then a further two sequels.
To me the hayday, golden age of rpg's was the originial playstation. Almost every great rpg was realeased or rereleased on playstation: Final Fantasy's through 9, Vagrant Story, Valkyrie Profile, Breath of Fire 4, Suikoden 1 and 2, The two Chrono's, the two Lunar's, Xenogears, Final Fantasy Tactics (sort of rpg), Koudelka, Dragon Warrior VII, Metal Gear Solid (not rpg but amazing story, best of the three by far) I'm probably missing some, but those are some of the greatest rpgs ever, we're never gonna see a group of that many good rpg's one after another ever again, I don't think.
YOU won't see RPGs like that again, because you'll be forever comparing them to the old RPGs, just the same way people who played RPGs on the SNES will forever consider them to be the best.
Those who play all the newer RPGs will hold them to be the best, and so on into the future.
Works with all games.
Sure, it's not blanket for everyone, but it's generally true.
I understand that's probably part of it, people who played ff6 first usually think thats the best of them all, and people who played ff7 first thing thats the best, and usually your first rpg is one your favorites. But also I can think of maybe 5 at most great rpg's on each system, well at least on ps2, xbox has a few, gamecube has zilch, and none of those are even as good as many of the psx rpgs, and I listed off a dozen or so great ones on the psx. So its part nostalgia but it's also fact. It's not that great rpg's arent still being made it was just a time in history when every month like three great amazing rpg's were being released or rereleased, and I still play the psx 90 percent of the time for rpg's. Also I personally like no voice acting, I like just hearing the great music and going around talking to people, plus most video game voice acting is sub par at best with a few exceptions.
Xbox has - Knight of the old republic 1 and 2, Jade Empire, Fable (I guess), Shenmue 2 if you count that as an rpg, ummm
Cube has - .... Zelda (obviously not an rpg but best I could do) ....
PS2 has - Final Fantasy X, Star Ocean, Xenosaga aint bad but not in the same universe as gears, Suikoden 3 same thing as with 1 and 2, Breath of Fire V way too short, Kingdom Hearts wasn't half bad.
Anyway that's how I feel, I'm intersested where rpg's are going in the next gen with sakaguchi gone, and square a mess, and Final Fantasy working its way to becoming the greatest whore franchise in history, what the next gen will bring. (I think I've put too much thought into this.)
The Gamecube has Tales of Symphonia, and it owns. It also has Paper Mario. It still needs more games though.
And Zelda is an RPG.
How is Zelda an rpg?
GC has Baten Kaitos too.
rpgs are i think defined by character control like in development (leveling up etc.)
its nice to see that someone agrees with me...thanks the last ancient.....any way the killer 7 dude also made some pretty good points as well...and i sense anger in some of these posts...c'mon people they're games...save ur passion for something else...and well...the cube has the least amount of rpg action...but zelda and RE4 are enough for some people...i guess
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryűkishi
I started on the old Ultima RPG's in the mid ninties. You could walk around, interact with everything like you could pick up a fork off of a table, watch a baker bakes his bread, follow him all day and see him go to bed at night. I miss that kind of stuff.