Are they really startifng to put sex scenes in video games

I read in my local paper (they were doing an article about violence in video games) and they were talking about the latest grand theft auto game. And they said that there was even a hidden sex scene put in if you had the password or something to unlock it. And they also said that there were sex scenes in the sim games too.

Is this true or are they exagerating the scenes that they found and claiming they were sex scenes when they really were not. Has anyone ever scene that supposed scene in grand theft auto.

Are they considering scenes where the game characters just have an intimate kiss as a sex scene or something.

The 'sex' scenes in The Sims is just the characters diving under bedsheets, a bunch of movement underneath that the player cant see, and then them popping out and cuddling. They call it woo-hoo in the game. I've seen worse things on network television.

Sims 2 is rated Teen, so I dont see the problem in the least.

everyone knows sex is 1000+ times worse than violence

The problem is, parents don't pay attention to the ratings. Though I'm honestly not sure if I mean that sarcastically or realistically, but thats the way it is

I think alot of times the parents aren't even with the kids when they buy the games they get. And I doubt that it comes to their mind very often when they are all around the house to check up on rather or not their kids are playing games with that kind of stuff in it. But for the most part I bet 95% of parents could care less about the contents of the games and view it as just a bunch of harmless fun just as their kids do.

But that isnt the fault of the industry, that's the fault of the parents. It's unfair to blame EA Games because they put things in a game meant for older people, same as it's unfair to blame Miramax for putting things in a movie meant for older people.

The exception lies in GTA San Andreas, because they intentionally smuggled in a hacking accessable graphic sex scene and hid it from the ESRB, but Rockstar does things intentionally to push limits so it's no real surprise from those numbskulls.

edit: It's illegal to sell games to kids under the ESRB age. And it's not the job of the video game industry to act as anyone's parent.

starting?

1st leisure suit larry came out in like 1987

has anyone actually seen that scene in San Andreas. Is it really all that bad or are they exagerating it like they did the Sims scenes.

I've seen the pictures, yes it is that bad. I can give you the link, but I'd be banned for posting it in this thread.

I thought the Hot Coffee thing was entirely player created? Or is it accesible on the console ones too?

From what I've read they're in the PS2 version as well as the PC, though the PS2 version isnt as graphic. The player created hack just removed all the clothes I believe, the one left in by Rockstar is graphic, but not as bad.

I'm only going by what I've read on the internet by the way. I dont play GTA myself, save for occasionally at a friend's house.

Lol, I just saw that scene and it is one of the most retarted things I have ever scene. Yes it is graphic. But still one of the goofiest things I have ever scene.

Abominatrix I am not sure if you could tell just how goofy it is just by looking at pictures of it. But if you saw the video you definitely would be able to tell.

Oh I definitly agree it's pretty retarded, but I can see people's beef with it.

What I think is funny about the whole sex in games thing is that there has been much worse material in several movies in the past few years. I guess seeing semi-good looking character models doing it is offensive while sex (or sexy) scenes in movies is okay.

Plus, the media has no right to talk. If anything, the media instigates sex related things. Any media outlet would die without sex and violence stories.

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Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix

I've seen the pictures, yes it is that bad.

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I disagree, in fact I don't think it was bad at all. I've seen worse in PG-13 movies.

I think they have a problem with it because video games are for the most part intended to be for kids. Adults can play them but for the most part they are made for teenagers on down. While movies that depict sex or graphic sex are for the most part made for adults.

I am sure if they started showing sex on television shows intended for youngsters you would hear quite an uproar also.

Anyway, just one final comment on that scene. I would think if they were going to make a scene like that they would want to make it with graphics that were not 10 years old. Not sure if it was just the video I was watching it on. But the graphics I saw looked ancient.

I'd like to know which PG-13 movies you've been watching. The positions are very graphic, and while I, personally, am not bothered, I can see where the problems arise. Though I'd have a far FAR bigger problem with the violence, if I were a parent.

edit: Those sorts of scenes in a PG-13 film would most likely be in the dark, and would not show any sort of positions like that. There are sex scenes in PG-13 films, but positions like that would earn a film an R rating.

and even an 'R' rated film would not get that descriptive either. An 'R' rated film would more or less just show two nude people on a bed supposedly having sex but without showing any kind of descriptive acts. In order to get as descriptive as what was scene in that video you have to watch a soft core porno

Well, I don't see where problems arise. The game was rated M for mature audiences

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Originally Posted by ESRB

MATURE

Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.

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Considering the fact that both characters in the controversial scene are fully clothed and there is not a shred of nudity, I fail to see how this is not suitable for someone who is 17 years old. Also, considering that these are 3D game models, I don't see how this is any worse than a kid imitating Ken doggy-styling Barbie.

I don't even like Grand Theft Auto, I never have. Though, I think this whole thing is completely ridiculous. Hot Coffee doesn't make Grand Theft Auto exceed the Mature ESRB rating, people that hate video games make Grand Theft Auto exceed the Mature ESRB rating.

The video I saw the guy had clothes on but the girl was naked. Is that not the same one that was in the game.

Anyway, showing oral sex in a video game (not sure if it is ok or not for me to actually say what was going on in the video. If not just bleep out those words) no matter if the characters are clothed or not is going to far.

They're both clothed, if the girl was naked you saw a version of the game that was hacked by a third party to put a different texture map on her.

I definitly agree that the whole thing is ridiculous, though I also think it's stupid to put it in the game at all. But I do see why people would have a problem with it, especially given that Rockstar didnt let the ESRB know about it in the first place.

Well, lying about it was just a dumb f***ing thing to do. No argument there.

I'd like to know what the huge difference between a 17 year old (Mature = 17+) and an 18 year old (Adults Only = 18+) is.

Second of all I'd like to know why parents would be buying their children M rated games and then complain about it.

Third I'd like to know why these people are going bananas over a polygonal unrealistic sex minigame in a videogame that it's not even readily availible in but you have to get on the internet and download an illegal patch to gain access.

Fouth I'd like to know why someone would worry about this but not use their common sense to realize that if kids are getting on the internet to download an illegal patch for a game they've already seen far worse things.

Finally I'd like to know why Martha Stewart still has a career.

1. The difference between 17 and 18 is highschool and college.

2. Most parents are probably not aware of the sex scene in the game. And probably only about 5% of parents are actually complaining about this kind of stuff anyway.

3. Video games are made for kids. And you should not put porno action in a kids game.

4. Even if the kids have scene worse you should still not intentionally put porno action in something they will play.

These arent kids games. GTA has never been a kid's game.

Just because something is digital or animated does not make it for kids. This is something the Western world needs to become aware of. They have had TONS of porno games, and I mean straight porn and nothing but. There's an entire industry of sex games.

The industry has complied to keep kids safe. If kids are still getting their hands on this material it's the fault of the parents.

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Originally Posted by Necronopticous

Well, lying about it was just a dumb f***ing thing to do. No argument there.

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Amen.

As for sexual content in video games rising... *glares at Tifa, Garnet, Yuna, Rikku, Lulu, and Paine*

I'm done here.

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Originally Posted by darkchrono

1. The difference between 17 and 18 is highschool and college.

2. Most parents are probably not aware of the sex scene in the game. And probably only about 5% of parents are actually complaining about this kind of stuff anyway.

3. Video games are made for kids. And you should not put porno action in a kids game.

4. Even if the kids have scene worse you should still not intentionally put porno action in something they will play.

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I can't even express how annoyed and offended I am by your awful uninformed post. This thread, and issue, is beyond rationality.

Okay, maybe just the last 4. Yuna being X-2 version.

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Originally Posted by darkchrono

3. Video games are made for kids. And you should not put porno action in a kids game.

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I bet hentai is also automatically for kids to because it's animated, right?

The GTA sex scene thing is stupid, imho. To acces it, you need a patch for PC or a cheating device for PS, so it's not accesible though normal gameplay. It's like complaining about nude plugins for Morrowind.

if it is not a video game that is sold in stores than no it is not meant to be for kids

They sell hentai in stores. They sell hentai games in stores. They sell porno in stores. Video games are for all ages, and they are CLEARLY marked when they're made for adults.

GTA games are full of violence and sexual innuendo. Even without secret sex scenes they are NOT for kids, and I'll say it straight out; anyone who thinks GTA games are for children is an idiot. I'm sorry, but sex scenes or not, any game that revolves around such violence and lawlessness is not for kids.

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Originally Posted by darkchrono

3. Video games are made for kids. And you should not put porno action in a kids game.

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This is seriously the most ignorant thing I have ever read at any video game message board. What the hell is wrong with you? Why are you even a member of ANY video game related message board if you truly believe that? Yes, porno action shouldn't be in a kids game. I'd agree with you in this case...IF GRAND THEFT ****ING AUTO WAS MEANT FOR KIDS.

GTA and other Mature rated games are meant for people 17+. Yes, they shouldn't have left the hot coffee crap in there, but the point is, you claim that video games are just for kids. If video games were truly developed for children, then there would be no "M" rated games since THEY WOULDN'T EXIST IF THAT WERE THE CASE. Here you are at a Final Fantasy message board. All of the later FF games are rated Teen, which is for people 13 or older. Once agian NOT A CHILD'S AGE.

I'm going to assume for a second that you are a teen or a young adult, since your one of those people who is afraid to put their full birthday in their profile for some reason. I ask you this: Why are you posting here to begin with if you believe that video games are meant for children? Do you think before you type? I almost think you said what you said on purpose to get a rise out of people. However, you seem to be trying (and failing) at backing up your claim. So I guess you are serious.

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Originally Posted by darkchrono

grand theft auto game

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In VC, it already had a Sex Scene.........

Parents always need a scapegoat to blame.

God forbid they ever take responsibility for their own children!

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php...03-08-11&res=l

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Originally Posted by Lindy

Parents always need a scapegoat to blame.

God forbid they ever take responsibility for their own children!

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php...03-08-11&res=l

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Ditto and [img]http://home.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/heart.gif[/img]

Uhm, the average age of a video game player in the US is 26 years old... right, games are meant for kids...

THE JACKEL

there is a simple equation in games.

more controversy = more sales.

tis simple. the clever thing about this game is that i wasn't initially controversial. they knew it was going to sell like hot cakes anyway. but having controversy a few months after the release keeeps it selling. a very clever move.

and so what? sex is sex. it's been around for millions of years. it's been on tv for tens of years. we've all seen it or done it. it's not the last taboo. at one point it needed to be done. it was there so someone had to do it. and lets not make a mistake ta wasn't the first game to do it. just alot of people seem to hate rockstar. so it's a lovely bandwagon to jump on. is there a great difference between game and film now?

they pretty much lost the controversy that violence in video games makes violent kids, because kids today are actually less violent than they use to be. Go ahead and search for the data yourself, but it's true. So they lost on violence in games corrupting kids, so what do you think they're going to move onto, sex in game corrupting kids.

THE JACKEL

Thought I should throw some interesting potins in here:

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Originally Posted by darkchrono

3. Video games are made for kids. And you should not put porno action in a kids game.

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The average age of the video gamer is 29. (Although who you ask will get you different answers. Most developers i know say 29... here is a url for proof that http://biz.gamedaily.com/features.as...&filter=myturn ) I could look up the statistics, but this is an industry standard beleif.

Also this issue was hit back in 1982(The same year as I was :)) with the release of Custer's Revenge for the atari. yes, thats right - polygonal sex at its finest. The object of the game was to go through your normal sidescrolling level dodgin arrows (your avatar was a cowboy with a huge... eh..bone ) when you got to the end you would exact your revenge on a naked indian girl (bada wikka wikka whannanna). Graphic - yes. The video game industry took a small hit, but children everywhere will mostly safe.

There is also a game called singles out there where you play it like the sims, build up two chars relationships, then you can make them (insert better porno music here). Thats right.

The confusion on my part is the need for a 3rd party download. With that right - the sims should be AO as well as tomb raider (insert any game with females in it) as they all have (prolly have) downloads to mod them. The third party download doesn't add anything (from what i have been told). The fact that the content comes on the game was what stuck the fork in GTA:SA. It was locked away and hot coffee merely unlocks it. That is what my letter from gamesutra had said.

here is the best article i have ever seen on this subject : http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....ticket_to_hell

Bipper

I find it amusing that they're throwing this at GTA just cause it's GTA. God of War does have top-nude women in it and noone seems to be complaining about that.

I once saw a nude woman when I was 17. I was scarred for life.

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Originally Posted by theundeadhero

I find it amusing that they're throwing this at GTA just cause it's GTA. God of War does have top-nude women in it and noone seems to be complaining about that.

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But it says so on the back on God of War.

There is no nudity in GTA: kinda.

It is on the disc, but it needs to be unlocked... this is kinda confusing how you would hanle this situation.

I personally think that if information like this is stored on the medium that the customer buys, it should be labeled as AO. However you rate the game not the content right?

Damn it all... why does sex have to be so complicated :(

Bipper

Why put porn in games?

I mean, if you are a perve, get Playboy Magazines, or surf the internet. I find this pointless.

I mean, M +17, A +18. Whats the freaking point! One year more older! :rolleyes2

My point is, injoy life and don't be a perve. :cool:

this thread proves why people put porn in games.

And exactly how does it do that? Please, enlighten me.

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Originally Posted by Necronopticous

Well, I don't see where problems arise. The game was rated M for mature audiences

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Originally Posted by ESRB

MATURE

Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.

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Considering the fact that both characters in the controversial scene are fully clothed and there is not a shred of nudity, I fail to see how this is not suitable for someone who is 17 years old. Also, considering that these are 3D game models, I don't see how this is any worse than a kid imitating Ken doggy-styling Barbie.

I don't even like Grand Theft Auto, I never have. Though, I think this whole thing is completely ridiculous. Hot Coffee doesn't make Grand Theft Auto exceed the Mature ESRB rating, people that hate video games make Grand Theft Auto exceed the Mature ESRB rating.

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Now they have rasied it to Adult, if you are talking about San Andreas, they havent changed nothing in england, becasue we have it as 18, and thats the highest it gets.
I have seen one picture of the sex scene, its isnt BAD BAD BAD, as in, the game been banned, but it is pretty over-rated for a game! I head you can get downloads off it for the pc version, but i didnt even know there was a pc version

Why do people not concider video games "media" anymore. They're as much media as music and movies. In fact alot of games now are just movies only you and/or friends can controll actors with the controllers.

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Originally Posted by Lindy

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php...03-08-11&res=l

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But it's true. =/

Nah, it was Blood Guy 2 that caused all the trouble.

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Originally Posted by DMKA

I'd like to know what the huge difference between a 17 year old (Mature = 17+) and an 18 year old (Adults Only = 18+) is.

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A hot spicy boner.

Guess again.

A hot... spicy boner?

Oh, Mandee.

Nothing wrong with sexually explicit video games. Sims 2, like Ashley said, is rated T but I got mods for mine so all my males have weenies with options to change the size, hair color, skin color, and state of arousal. Yay for mods! Double yay for hot spicy boners!

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Originally Posted by ShlupQuack

A hot... spicy boner?

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*****Chokes :eek:

bipper

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShlupQuack

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DMKA

I'd like to know what the huge difference between a 17 year old (Mature = 17+) and an 18 year old (Adults Only = 18+) is.

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A hot spicy boner.

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Mandee, my dear, you have so much to learn about the male species.

lindy.

the first rule of pr is. controversy breeds publicity. publicity = sales.

the fact that we are talking about a game purely because of it's adult content increases the amount of times people hear about it. and that's all good for sales.

and people will always buy something to see what all the fuss is about.

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Originally Posted by DMKA

Mandee, my dear, you have so much to learn about the male species.

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I don't know what would make you think that but I can assure you that I am very familiar with the ins and outs of the male body.

Hehe, "ins and outs of the male body." :greenie:

stop with the sex talk already. family forum remember.

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Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

stop with the sex talk already. family forum remember.

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What's the topic of this thread?

yeah but it didn't require talk about boner's and the in's and outs of a male. if we want to start using every thread like this as an excuse to be like that then i will be the first to bring it to the next logical step.

There's nothing sexual about the inside of a male.
You're thinking about females. Not that either of those would be extreamly bad or anything.
It says "no eyes on each other for me" under your user name, not "Cid's Knight".

i did notice that. but when i feel nothing is done about such crude topics of conversation i'll do it myself. otherwise if i can beat them i'll join them and go that one step further and noone wants that.

It says in the FAQ that you shouldn't act like a mod if you're not one.

then as it appears this tone of conversation is okay. i will not act like a mod and act in the same crude way this thread is being handled.

Sex sex sexity sex.

you do know that if we continue down this road of thought about why shlupquack's crudeness should or shouldn't be allowed this thread will be closed anyway and i partially get what i want (an edit would be better). so i win either way. meh.

What?

That's enough. Rengori, if you have a problem use the warn button. What you're doing is also against the rules.


I would like everyone to get back on topic without all of the inuendos.

stupid thing won't let me delete my own posts. but that was all that was needed. thank you leeza again for being sane and well judged.

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Originally Posted by Not At All Reno

starting?

1st leisure suit larry came out in like 1987

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Leisure Suit Larry? Feh! Try Custer's Revenge, which came out in 1982! That was WAY worse! Actually, pretty much ANYTHING made by Mystique or Play Around was far, far worse than Leisure Suit Larry. It's the difference between Cinemax's late night skin flicks and the sorts of movies whose titles include things like "black somethings, white chicks" or words like "mouth" and "gutter" used in conjunction with each other.

I wouldn't talk like that if it weren't relevant to the topic. But, thanks, Cloud, I think I'm familiar with the rules of the forum.

After all, the thread is mostly about GTA, and that's probably the crudest video game that can be sold in a public display. I do apologise for offending you with my boners though. I'll go back to beating hookers to death with dildos now.

it wasn't relevant or offensive. it was crude.

cloud, I think you might want to quit while you're ahead.

That's your opinion. But Leeza asked us to get back on topic and I like her so I'm trying to do so, so I'm dropping it.

as you wish leeza.

The only hot and spicy thing that should be discussed at this forum is kishi's salsa.

As long as the games carry a label that warns of the sexiness, I don't see a problem with it. The generic 'M' doesn't do it for me, though.

I thought I was talking about Kishi's salsa.

Sorry, couldn't pass that one up.

Hey, look, the topic! I agree with most people: they have ratings for a reason. I think GTA should've been AO in the first place though. I mean, c'mon, this little "scene" they found does not make the game any worse than it was already.

I agree they should put a rating B for bad...
or TS for teh sex.

I should apply for a job at the ESRB.

Custers revenge :p It still gets me when I hear that name...
You get to the end your like dancing cause you won... then you look at the screen; and realize.. morally- you just lost..

Bipper

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Originally Posted by bipper

I should apply for a job at the ESRB.

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You could climb the corperate ladder and make an PWTFIWWY rating.

Parents, what the :love: :love: :love: :love: is wrong with you?

If people are dumb enough to buy a game because it has boobies in it they're smurfing morons.

... Did you read any of the discussion?

We're talking about whether it's appropriate to have it in games and whether or not it's becoming increasingly common, not about people buying it because there are sexual things.

Even though his post was borderline on the topic, there was no real reason for you to correct him. Hard to tell what this thread is about with all the garbage in it. This one is teetering on the edge.

The topic is sex in video games. Please post your opinions on it and nothing else. All other posts will be deleted and you will be put in the 'no gen gaming for me' user group.

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Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

lindy.

the first rule of pr is. controversy breeds publicity. publicity = sales.

the fact that we are talking about a game purely because of it's adult content increases the amount of times people hear about it. and that's all good for sales.

and people will always buy something to see what all the fuss is about.

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Lovely as that is, doesn't make your point right.

Internet forum discussion != Publicity

Just because people TALK about it, doesn't mean they'll BUY it.

Controversy breeds notoriety, notoriety breeds curiosity, and that, my friends, is how the cat gets killed. In other words, yes, controversy does generate sales. Look at games like Night Trap and Mortal Kombat. For that matter, look at what controversy did for GTA3.

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Originally Posted by DJZen

Controversy breeds notoriety, notoriety breeds curiosity, and that, my friends, is how the cat gets killed. In other words, yes, controversy does generate sales. Look at games like Night Trap and Mortal Kombat. For that matter, look at what controversy did for GTA3.

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Yes, it had absolutley nothing to do with the last two games being total failures compared to this.

The only reason the "hot coffee" was in San Andreas was lazyness, or slack-ass work, that left the extra code in. If they really wanted the controversy they'd make an in-game cheat activate it and, I don't know, NOT deny it and say hackers did it untill it was proven to be in the PS2 version.

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Yes, it had absolutley nothing to do with the last two games being total failures compared to this.

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What? Use some nouns, please.

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Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

lindy.

the first rule of pr is. controversy breeds publicity. publicity = sales.

the fact that we are talking about a game purely because of it's adult content increases the amount of times people hear about it. and that's all good for sales.

and people will always buy something to see what all the fuss is about.

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That's not true, exactly. When GTA III came out, people were more interested in the "sandbox gameplay" more than anything else. Sure, there were those people who were like, "Huh Huh, you can pick up hookers!" In fact, there are those kind of morons when it comes to anything, no matter if it is "crude" or not. Example: 14 year old boys seeing a artsy movie because it has nudity in it, instead of seeing it for the compelling story. Personally, I didn't get into GTA right away. It took awhile before the series grew on me. I didn't even care about the controversey.

Believe it or not, most people who are fans of GTA game don't give a rat's ass about the so-called adult content in it. They enjoy the game for the deep exploration, the "do what you want" attitude, and the enjoyable missions.

This next part is my own little rant. In otherwords, this isn't directed towards anyone.

I am just tired of people saying that adult nature content (if we are talking about sex or violence) shouldn't be in video games. I understand and agree that stuff like that shouldn't be in the hands of children, but if companies make adult movies, books, and comics FOR ADULTS, what's wrong with video games receiving the same treatment? People go so far as to say we should ban them. If you go by that logic, never send your child to Sunday school or let him/her pick up a bible. Lot's of nasty stuff is in there. While we're at it, never EVER turn on the news, connect to the internet, or pick up a paper. The worst kind of violence I have ever seen on TV was on the 9:00 news. But whatever, people are determinded to be as ignorant as possible.

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Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

yeah but it didn't require talk about boner's and the in's and outs of a male. if we want to start using every thread like this as an excuse to be like that then i will be the first to bring it to the next logical step.

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Omg you said it *giggles*

But yeah I think the AO label and the publicity going along with it and the scene that caused it are all stupid as hell.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

I once saw a nude woman when I was 17. I was scarred for life.

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xD

its even in nintendogs!!! xDDDDD

Well I sat down and read about the Grand Theft Auto incident. The hot coffee scene and Mr. Jack Thompsons stance on violent gaming. (www.Stopkill.com)
His reasons for making it a goal to raise ratings on games are to protect the American public's rights. So when people do blame their actions on gaming that it will not punish the rest of the world. I totally disagree with this. The government has not taken action in banning any games right at the moment despite numerous claims from individuals who said they used the games as simulators, ect. Stores solve this problem by independently choosing to remove the games from their shelves. I fail to see how raising the rating of a game will deny people the right to blame violence on gaming. Simply put, it's a endless battle that ultimately achieves nothing more than raising the rating on a game which is a mere suggestion, not enforced.

Wow, Jack Thompson was brave enough to show off not only his email address but his MAILING address as well. Boy am I gonna have fun with those.

Have fun Joel xD :D

I am sure something like sex on a M rated game(where by then i am sure you at least heard of sex...) which is purely natural in life to be something of a controversey. I find alot of people like to point fingers at something else and at times not at themselves when bad things happen. Same deal here. I mean sure to say GTA isnt good to be picked up by kids is one thing, but to blame games for that content (and for some...to be played by children...dont show them the damn game..its that simple..) is kinda retarded.

I am not a fan of GTA, but that doesnt take away the stupidity.

I just realized something. Thompson is attacking violent games like GTA, Halo, Doom, etc. Yet he doesn't touch all of these "patriotic" games like Medal of Honour, Rainbow Six etc. where you're playing as a soldier or a special ops guy out killing terrorists, nazis, Viatnamies, and so on and so forth. They're every bit as violent as most of the games Thompson is campaining against yet he doesn't go after them

there's no need for a discussion about violence caused by video games because it is completely false. The number of youth homocides have steadil DECREASED since video games, they're just trying to blame something.

As for the whole sex content, it only became a big deal because of people like... Hilary Clinton who probably never touched a game in her life so she really shouldn't say anything. It's like me telling a movie director that he has no idea what he's doing and that what he makes will have a huge effect on society and ruin our youth.

THE JACKEL

For those wanting a little more insight into the mind of Jack Thompson, this just proves, you don't know Thompson.

http://vgcats.com/jack.php

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Originally Posted by mecakane

The only reason the "hot coffee" was in San Andreas was lazyness, or slack-ass work, that left the extra code in. If they really wanted the controversy they'd make an in-game cheat activate it and, I don't know, NOT deny it and say hackers did it untill it was proven to be in the PS2 version.

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I tend to disagree. If the code was accesable without any mods, the ESRB would've definately been on them. Leaving the code in there, then dropping hints on the codes existance, may be a great way to stir up some news.

Face it, the pc version came out long after the PS 2 version, and it needed a little kick. This all makes sence to me. I am not saying it is a fact; it just makes down right sense.

Bipper

hot coffe was there to generate sales after the first release rush to buy the game had subsided. it keeps up sales by keeping the name around for a bit. it was no use putting it in at the start as it was gonna sell out when it came out anyway. they knew that. but the idea was too keep sales going for both formats.

Um, no. The mod or cheat could seriously mess up your save games, the only way to exit it is to kill yourself or something afterwards, it caused the game to be rated Adults Only removing it from major conservative retailers.

The ERSB doesn't examine everything in a game before its release, they play some of it and read reviews and ask the developer. It's not like the mpaa watching a movie and staying after the credits to make sure nothing was slipped in after them. They don't have 50+ hours for every video game released.

edit: where are these hints you're talking about?

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I just realized something. Thompson is attacking violent games like GTA, Halo, Doom, etc. Yet he doesn't touch all of these "patriotic" games like Medal of Honour, Rainbow Six etc. where you're playing as a soldier or a special ops guy out killing terrorists, nazis, Viatnamies, and so on and so forth. They're every bit as violent as most of the games Thompson is campaining against yet he doesn't go after them

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I don't know, something tells me these games go for realism. You know, not blowing people up into a gooey mess with a single gun blast. Rainbow Six is a steath game, you can't jump down into a pit of enemies and start blasting them away like you can in those other games, so they're not as voilent. No matter how much you want to point some sort of "omg he's pro-war finger"

There still about as violent as Halo or GTA.

Not really, they're very much sans-blood, and the main complaint about GTA is the fact that you're shooting innocent civilians and police.

That's what's supposed to "corrupt" young minds into murdering all their peers, not shooting Nazis.

It's much easier to jump on the controversy in a game like GTA than the basic violence in Medal of Honour.

Hmm, so it's bad if we shoot at fellow nobodys, monsters, aliens, and other creatures but if we shoot at Vietnamies, Nazis, and pretty much people who were against the US during major world events in history it's ok?

And FYI, Rainbow Six was pretty bloody and gorey when it came to exit wounds.

It's not controversial, and you can't shout and scream and try to ban things that cause no controversy.

Jack Thompson, because that is who we're talking about, is trying to further his career with high-profile cases, GTA is controversial and high profile, Medal of Honour and Rainbow Six are not.

In Rainbow Six or Medal of Honnor I'm pretty sure you can't blow up aliens or demons or whatever with big rocket launchers. Stop trying to turn his idoitic rants into idoitic patriotic rants.

omg he didn't mention half-life, or counter strike, where you can ACTUALLY BE TERRORISTS, take hostages, and blow up [img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img]. Drop it, you've missed the point entirely.

I'm not complaining.

You don't become a terrorist in Halflife, you goob.

I think as mistakes go, that's a single drop compared to your ocean of errors.

You do in counter strike. And what game is counter strike an offical mod of? Half-life!
Also, in Half-life the american army, or government agents, or someone comes to kill you, and you have to kill all those poor soldiers just doing their job. Yet not one word of mention on that site!

Sex scenes OF COURSE!! were going to happen when you have games like grand theft auto about people,parents or EVEN the media! are bitching about these things happing all the time. if its such a problem then dont let ya kids play em. IF PORNS ALOUD FOR YA ALDULT YOUNG MEN THEN WHY CANT VIDEO GAMES HAVE IT TOO!! ......its there own fault....urg i dunno what im.. saying now ....bye!>.>-----------

nothing wrong with killing people that are shooting you. that's okay. and counter strike was probably about nelson mandella or some oher good terrorism. so we can all calm down.

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Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

nothing wrong with killing people that are shooting you. that's okay. and counter strike was probably about nelson mandella or some oher good terrorism. so we can all calm down.

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A life's a life, they're not coming back unless it's a video game.

You don't like it.. Don't play the game, and actually teach your children so values.

Eeesh! Why do people think that the government (or some organisation) needs to babysit everyone? The phycological effects of you locking your kid in his room for a time out are more likeley to triger violent behavior then mashing buttons and killing metephorical people. The subliminal mind seperates reality and fantasy perfectly, its congitage thought that blurs the line. So I don' see much purpose in crying when some kid gets a gun and unloads. The kid had other issues besides the latest copy of mario brothers...

I do agree with the set rules, but when people say that they arn't happy with sex in video games.... don't buy em. I don't like porn, i dont buy it.


Bipper

don't lie bipper we have all seen your stash. mountains of the filth.

all things in games like film are fantasy. i mean noone has complained about the aristocrats film yet. now that is one sick joke and it will be one sick film. but for some reason games are seperated.

we can watch men shoot each other, have sex, rape, rob, batter in films why can't we have it in games?

People actually listen to a film's rating more often than game's for one.

people's own ignorance or arrogance is not a matter of concern.

This is all very true.

You see a sign that says "Do not grab this gun and shoot your dog" your were warned. Yet there was subliminal messaging there... the sentace put the thought in your head. Do you blame the sign? No. Not unless you want to say that you have no cognative processes at all in your brain. Then you would be considered a danger to everyone around you. These are the only people that need to be shielded from these sort of things.

Not the product of some parents lazieness to oversee thier children's activites and rear thier child to learn any morals. These children are capable of understanding the differece.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by cloud no.9

don't lie bipper we have all seen your stash. mountains of the filth.

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But did I buy it? :tongue:
Bipper

it just flew under your bed? or did your mum buy it for you?

parents must be in control of their children and what they view and play. at the end of the day having an ao sticker on it isn't gonna stop little jimmy's parents buying it for him anymore than that m sticker did.

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Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

parents must be in control of their children and what they view and play. at the end of the day having an ao sticker on it isn't gonna stop little jimmy's parents buying it for him anymore than that m sticker did.

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I'm guessing it's because parent's don't understand the rating system.

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Originally Posted by Rengori

People actually listen to a film's rating more often than game's for one.

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Yeah. After all, it's just a game! :monster:

is the rating system not the same for films?

Hm...

The ESRB rating for four year olds=G
E=PG
T=PG-13
M=R
AO=X

Guess you're right.

there was already monster porn at the beginning of Silent Hill 2... :monocle:

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Originally Posted by Lindy

For those wanting a little more insight into the mind of Jack Thompson, this just proves, you don't know Thompson.

http://vgcats.com/jack.php

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I know Jack Thompson and his motives. I simply disagree with his handling of the situation. He's persueing something to protect the American public that is not truely a threat. If the government would have taken action against a gaming company over the death of a person resulting from violent gaming I would then fully submit to his agenda but that is not the case.

1. He is getting paid to fight this case. So remember lawyers do get a hefty % of the winning.

2. After all the propaganda leading to events of violence within the youth raising the rating on a game does not excuse the fact that this violence will still happen.

You see that no matter what the games rating, if a person kills someone and decides to blame it on the product. That's inevitable. The only reason people blame is to catch an easy way out.

If you read my first paragraph you'll see why I disagree with his actions. Because the government has not taken action, and still has no intentions because anyone can blame violence on anything.

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Originally Posted by Amir

If you read my first paragraph you'll see why I disagree with his actions. Because the government has not taken action, and still has no intentions because anyone can blame violence on anything.

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"This episode of Sponge Bob made me kill my parents!"

I don't understand why parents get all whiney over a scene that requires a mod, but not teen shows that condone pre-marital, underage sex.

Because they're intellegent enough to not whine aboue pre-marital underage sex? :tongue:

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Originally Posted by DMKA

Because they're intellegent enough to not whine aboue pre-marital underage sex? :tongue:

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Good one.

Anyway, entertianment will always be blamed for something. It's has happened for decades and will always happen untill the end of time.

Last I heard, ESRB ratings were merely guidelines, while BBFC ratings are law.

From ESRB's site:
"While the ESRB does not have the authority to enforce its ratings at the retail level, we do work closely with retailers and game centers to display information that explains to customers how the rating system works, and, where appropriate, support their store policy pertaining to the sale or rental of Mature-rated games to minors without parental consent. Many major retailers currently implement their own store policies requiring age verification for the sale of games rated M (Mature), and ESRB encourages and supports these efforts."

Many many game stores and places like WalMart, Target, etc wont sell M rated games to minors. Of course it varies by the laziness of the clerk.

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Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix

From ESRB's site:
"While the ESRB does not have the authority to enforce its ratings at the retail level, we do work closely with retailers and game centers to display information that explains to customers how the rating system works, and, where appropriate, support their store policy pertaining to the sale or rental of Mature-rated games to minors without parental consent. Many major retailers currently implement their own store policies requiring age verification for the sale of games rated M (Mature), and ESRB encourages and supports these efforts."

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Yeah, that.

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Originally Posted by Amir

Blah blah blah

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I wasn't even directing what I said at you O_o

isn't the bbfc british?

Games released in Britain now are governed by either the BBFC or PEGI, looking at my Killer7 and Resident Evil 4 boxes, they have 18 and 15 BBFC ratings, but my Viewtiful Joe box has a 12+ PEGI rating.

So it's not JUST the BBFC that deal with ratings, but the BBFC can block anything they consider undesirable.

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it just flew under your bed? or did your mum buy it for you?

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My mum, even though it was rated AAPO (Adults and perverts only) ;)

I still don't get the motives of people who are opposed of these things. If it is controlled, i needn't be a problem. The ESRB has repetedly been called one of the best rating systems and very easy to understand etc.

Its like a friend I have. If you say you like oranges, he will give you at least a million bogus bs reasons that oranges suck.

I think we all agree that the rating systems are good, and that the parents hould take responsability to teach there kids to adhier to the rating system. The only argument the opposers to mere rating systems is: Using this system you place the responsability on the parents. This would work in the perfect world, but if little Johny's parents let him play GTA:SA and he walks into school and lights the place up... even those whom resposibly raiseed thier children are affected.

This is very continant on the fact that viloence in video games can cause one to behave violently. Which I do think it does cause changes in younger children. And with this; I am on the fence again :)

Bipper

If video games cause children to be violent, what will seeing sex in a game make them do?

Oh no! They'll have sex! How disgustingly natural!

That's stupid anyway, because violent games don't cause children to be violent, every story where games are blamed for inciting violence, it's pretty clearly stated that the person was mentally disturbed, yet that rather important fact is usually glossed over.

It's not the game that causes violence, it's the person themselves.

AS I've said before it's been proven that video games do not cause violence, the homocide rate since video games has actually dropped for youths, so that's not a good argument either way.

As for what influence sex in games will have, alright so sex is natural and all, but some people start doing certain things way too early, i mean 12 year olds doing stuff isn't right, no matter how you look at it. Sadly though that's already happening even without tons of sex in games so i don't really see how it could get much worse on that front.

THE JACKEL

I don't think it was "accidental" that GTA's mod was discovered, or that all the code and characters were "left in" on the finished game. It was meant to be found, and I'd bet good money that the "hacker" who modded the "hot coffee" thing was paid under the table by Rockstar. And the reason is fairly clear. Free publicity. Let's face it, nothing says "cool" like having all of the fogey adults in congress talking about how dangerous GTA:SA is. Or have it talked about on CNN and Fox like it's the appocalypse.

My only objection is that content was not labled at the time of sale. So many people bought the game not expecting junior to get the sexy hot coffee mod and have animated sex in a minigame. I don't care if they put stuff like that in a game, I'm sure there are people who want it, but I expect that if they do so, that they should put some sort of warning on the game i.e "ATTENTION PARENTS: THIS GAME CONTAINS SEX AND NUDITY. IT IS NOT FOR CHILDREN UNDER 18." That way, the people who don't want it won't have any risk of being subjected to it. If stores had wanted to, they could have kept it behind the counter etc. to keep a family friendly image.

In other words, let the people decide how they like their coffee. :greenie:

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Oh no! They'll have sex! How disgustingly natural!

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I am talking very youg kids. Young kids having sex is not good.

Yes, Violence in younger children playing video games has been provent true. Children don;t have the cognative thought prosseses that we do (forsight ability). Children also directly act more from their role models, and do not learn from them. i.e. Children learn mostly by mimicing.

This was implied as obviously as I could put it. I am talking the younger children, like upto age 8.

Bipper

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Originally Posted by Gnostic Yevon

I don't think it was "accidental" that GTA's mod was discovered, or that all the code and characters were "left in" on the finished game. It was meant to be found, and I'd bet good money that the "hacker" who modded the "hot coffee" thing was paid under the table by Rockstar. And the reason is fairly clear. Free publicity. Let's face it, nothing says "cool" like having all of the fogey adults in congress talking about how dangerous GTA:SA is. Or have it talked about on CNN and Fox like it's the appocalypse.

My only objection is that content was not labled at the time of sale. So many people bought the game not expecting junior to get the sexy hot coffee mod and have animated sex in a minigame. I don't care if they put stuff like that in a game, I'm sure there are people who want it, but I expect that if they do so, that they should put some sort of warning on the game i.e "ATTENTION PARENTS: THIS GAME CONTAINS SEX AND NUDITY. IT IS NOT FOR CHILDREN UNDER 18." That way, the people who don't want it won't have any risk of being subjected to it. If stores had wanted to, they could have kept it behind the counter etc. to keep a family friendly image.

In other words, let the people decide how they like their coffee. :greenie:

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It was rated Mature in the US, and Adult Only in many other countries. Now tell me what the big difference between 18 years and 17 years is. When it comes to maturity anyway.
Basically, if parents don't want to let their children watch the movie "Thug gangsta kills 500 people and takes drugs", they shouldn't let them play GTA:SA.

I think there is little difference between 17 and 18 technically speaking. But its like saying up to this age, the content should be suitable for.. then instead of puting 100 years as a limit to thier next crieria - they call it adult only.

Well, at least - Adult only may be considered 21 by some states as they set for pornogrophy laws, etc. That is what i think they are for. Even if not, the leagality of content is the only line between 17 and 18. In that I think they added the rating for versatility.

Bipper

A long time ago, kids would have sex once they reached puberty, but that's because they would only live to about 30 or 40.

but now we livced in a more civilised society. and a longer living one were breeding is not the reason people have sex mostly.

nothing wrong with sex in gaames like there is nothing wrong with sex in films just don't let the kiddies watch it.

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Originally Posted by Rengori

A long time ago, kids would have sex once they reached puberty, but that's because they would only live to about 30 or 40.

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and many more women died in child birth for multiple reasons such as they were too young and not able to birth the child properly because they weren't fully developed

And they also didn't choose who they married and other things like that. It isn't right for young people to be having sex.... no matter how you look at it

THE JACKEL

I'm a father of an 11 year old girl that plays games, just like her dad. I am involved in every game she plays, and all of our systems are in our living room. She has her own computer but i have it set up that her search engine won't work on things like sex and nudity. It's called parenting and more parents should practice it!

>>> I demand more SEX in the RPGs i play!..

...Or I'll chop them off.

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Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

...Or I'll chop them off.

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Hahaha excellent post.

I actually believed my cousin when I was like 7 years old playing Final Fantasy 7 and he said there were nude girls in that bubble bee inn place in Wall Street. I was too much of a pansy back then (I was only 7!) to actually see if it was true or not

The difference between M and AO isn't the one year of age, it's about the message it's (trying to) send. It's like R and NC-17. If you're a young teenager with meddling parents, maybe if you're lucky your parents will look into an R rated movie you want to see, and let you see it. That's probably not going to happen with an NC-17 movie. It sends a stronger message about the bad content, which is what would happen with AO if more parents understood the ratings. Which they should.

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Originally Posted by bipper

Well, at least - Adult only may be considered 21 by some states as they set for pornogrophy laws, etc. That is what i think they are for. Even if not, the leagality of content is the only line between 17 and 18. In that I think they added the rating for versatility.

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Yup, I very much agree with ya MecaKane. Also if you look at the leagal aspect of it: If for some reason the Federal regulated age changes (it IS 21 in some states), or if the ESRB goes international (the Assumed age of adult in some places are 21) It is leagaly set up to represent these Adult Oriented games better.

I guess that answer lies with in the ESRB. I am fine with having seperate M and AO rating. Some mature kids might beable to handle a mature game at a slightly younger age. whilst you wouldnt want em to get into certain themes at this point.

Bipper

I believe theres always been something called a M rated game and or a title called Adult...therefore they should not be purchased if your a younging....therefore those who are responsible parents should not let thier children get ahold of those kind of things...

Another thing is that grand theft auto is named that for something....it describes mostly what the game is about. It is notoriously known throughout the world for being a very MATURE GAME....

and those who buy games like that and don't expect something sexual don't understand anything... They are trying to make games more explicit in my opinion. They are trying to see how far is too far, what will happen to the game if it includes more nudity or sexual interpretation. How well will it sell? Like on TV it's all about ratings.

I just don't think it's a big deal. So what if some kid wants to see a sex scene on a game when their parents aren't around? It's not like they can't rent or buy "Basic Instinct" or "Showgirls". And when I was a kid I had several copies of Hustler and Playboy hidden in my closet. All this is nothing new under the sun.

Stan:I guess parents dont care about violence that much if theres sex involved.

Sex is just a part of the more adult and realistic revolution games are in personally I don't feel it's bad thing ....a while ago ppl would be shocked to hear Ba***** in a game now we've become used to it as we will sex.....If it comes to it think about is there any better way to express ones love for another to share their passion I feel it will enforce the relationships between characters in games E.g Tidus kissing Yuna made you care more about them eventually having to seperate so It my not be all bad as long as it used in the right context to improve and immerse the player more and therefore get them invlolved more with the characters

Don't double post-kikimm

Sides the fact that stressing sexual immorality us so taboo while blowing up and killing others is accepted by some of the same? no. In fact I find it almost as evil to feel that way as double posting :)

I have had plenty of views, all left in the tread. I won't play games that have blantent sex in them. Nudity as a symbolic, or litterate device is ok in my eyes. As long as your being right with it.

The end.

morrowind has nuddity with the better bodies mod, kinda sad really, but hardly worth making it a massive topic to bring up in some kinda court...

Psh sex is not anything immoral to me, i say bring it on, more open the better i feel. People are too stingy about this stuff. As long as its rated A.

Realistically, I'm seeing that the only way to get the sex/nudity scenes is by modifying the games. So I hardly understand how that can be an issue.

There are tons of actual erotic games out there. I listed a few back in earlier posts. They can make em all like I said, but I won't buy em.

A recent one from what I have heard is a game called Singles. Its like the sims, but you get your characters to love each other and then you have the option to watch them have sex. It just seems ...weird lol.

Bipper

Fair enough...and yeah, I agree.

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Originally Posted by darkchrono

has anyone actually seen that scene in San Andreas. Is it really all that bad or are they exagerating it like they did the Sims scenes.

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I saw some of it ages ago but I couldn't go through with it because it was just to embarrassing I nearly wet myself laughing and it really put me off the game. Anyways the guy gets a blowjob then they go on the bed and you control what he does to her it's really quite graphic

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Originally Posted by lionx

Psh sex is not anything immoral to me, i say bring it on, more open the better i feel. People are too stingy about this stuff. As long as its rated A.

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xD I love you...

yeah but some people who are religious don't like it being used by their children.....or the world....

Internet adult thingies, is based on honor system, they believe that it's just toop easy to access pornography and whatnot.

Thusly it's up to THEm to watch what their children access....I fail to see why the many should suffer because the wingnuts decide that the government should raise their children. I mean, why do we HAVE to live in a Disney state?!

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Originally Posted by Giga Guess

Thusly it's up to THEm to watch what their children access....I fail to see why the many should suffer because the wingnuts decide that the government should raise their children. I mean, why do we HAVE to live in a Disney state?!

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Well said. I agree, and screw Hillary Clinton or Joe Lieberman or Rick Santorum or any other politician who thinks that we need game censorship.

a lot of it depends on how the nudity is presented. For example in the beginning of Xenogears a nude woman steps out of the wreakage and walks away. It was a very beautiful non sexual scene.

i would be more worried about games like manhunt. That, in my opinion, was worse than any sex scenes i've ever seen in a video game (and they are few and far between.)

Peace out and :rock:
EE

It was in Fahrenheit and it wasn't that bad It is a step in the right direction I think as it's more realistic

Jack Thompson is officially nuts. I was just reading him going off about how The Sims 2 is worse than the Hot Coffee mod. Freaking ridiculous.

People like Jack Thompson are the reason people insult Americans.

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Originally Posted by eternal essence

i would be more worried about games like manhunt. That, in my opinion, was worse than any sex scenes i've ever seen in a video game (and they are few and far between.)

Peace out and :rock:
EE

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Agreed.

for some PC games there were programs that some sickos made that you could download.
On the sims the worst there was is a vibrating bed, to have a baby you just had to kiss a bunch of times. there was a cheat however, if you used a cheat right you can move the shower while your sim is using it and see them naked.

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Originally Posted by The Man

People like Jack Thompson are the reason people insult Americans.

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Amen!

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Originally Posted by ShlupQuack

Nothing wrong with sexually explicit video games. Sims 2, like Ashley said, is rated T but I got mods for mine so all my males have weenies with options to change the size, hair color, skin color, and state of arousal. Yay for mods! Double yay for hot spicy boners!

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*chokes*
*dies*
*comes back to life*
*dies again*

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Originally Posted by The Man

People like Jack Thompson are the reason people insult America.

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:thumb:

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Originally Posted by bipper

There are tons of actual erotic games out there. I listed a few back in earlier posts. They can make em all like I said, but I won't buy em.

A recent one from what I have heard is a game called Singles. Its like the sims, but you get your characters to love each other and then you have the option to watch them have sex. It just seems ...weird lol.

Bipper

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But Bipper you are an adult making an adult decision to buy or not to buy a certain product that is rated for 17 years and up. I think the issue is that parents are responsible for what their kids do and see. If my 12 year old is watching a sex scene on a movie at home it is my fault, not the movie company. It should be the same with adult games. Moral police and politicians striving for points stirring up the ignorant masses...
Good post though, you made a very valid point :)

People aren't looking at the ratings.

"Oh look honey, its T for teen. Can't possibly have anything really bad in it, right?"
*buys the game*

This is what parents and children need to do. Turn the game around and you'll see why it was rated T. Sexual Themes and Sexual Activity. Then ya know if it has it.
Sims 2 goes under the covers with their head popping out of the covers sometimes. Or they do it in the hot tub, and they go under the water and you see hearts come up. Any questions?