A Sweet Theory.. but not mine.

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10-02-2005, 05:33 AM
G SpOtZ

A Sweet Theory.. but not mine.

i read this really great theory online, about how FFVIII and FFIII are almost completely related, and there are many points that prove it.
I won't take ANY credit for it at all, becuase i only read it and i feel like sharing it.
here's the site, it's worth reading: http://www.rpgamer.com/editor/2005/q2/050205gm.html
if anybody else agree's with the theory and has any other points besides the ones in the site, please share those points.
and, if you wanna discruss or argue with it, you're all welcome too. personally i think it works well.
10-02-2005, 09:02 AM
Christmas

I remember someone once post something like this but I cannot find that old thread. Glad to be able to see it again.
10-02-2005, 12:44 PM
Banishing Blade

I very rarely believe in any Theories, but this was believable at least because of that Hyne thing and the clock tower where i was like OMG.
10-02-2005, 01:02 PM
Sir Bahamut

A nice theory, but not very plausible. The Hyne in FF3 and the Hyne in FF8 are completely different, and their stories are wildly differing. Hyne in FF3 had no original power of his own. Instead, he received powers of Darkness after the Crystals were diminished, and used those to try and overthrow the Floating Continent. Hyne in FF8 was like a demi-God who created the human race! Don't sound very similar, do they? The point about the head dissapearing first is a bit odd, and I cannot remember that detail, but isn't really relevant all things considered.

The comparison of the Floating Continent to the Deep Sea Research Centre is also bad, since the Research Center ruins were very small, and like a temple, nothing resembling any structure found on the Floating Continent. Furthermore, the ruins in the research centre were WAY too small. The Floating Continent is a CONTINENT, you know. It's full with kingdoms and forests and mountains, hardly the kind of thing we see in the ruins at the research centre.

Interesting, but not plausible.
10-02-2005, 02:36 PM
Future Esthar

How do you know we had seen the entire site on the DSRC?
After all the site is kinda enclosed by some glass(as seen on the upper part of the site)
and there could been more ruins deep on the water.
10-02-2005, 02:50 PM
Reine

Well, how big was the Floating Continent on the World Map? It was TINY, wasnt it?
10-02-2005, 03:20 PM
Sir Bahamut

Have you guys even played FF3? If not, you aren't really qualified to say much (no offense meant).

It may look tiny on that world map, but that's only because the rest of the world of so friggin huge. When you enter the Floating Continent, it has a world map of it's own, you know. This isn't a small island we're talking about. On the FF8 scale, it's approximately the size of the entire Galbadian continent(actually, a bit larger really, but even rounding down leaves the point the same). Do you really think that something that huge is lying under the research center, and those ruins are just a tiny part of some castle, which had to have been made after FF3 ended, because there is nothing of the sort in the game as it is.

EDIT: Really, there's no basis for saying the games are "totally related" or anything. The points he has are these:

1) Similar world maps. No startling similarities if you ask me, save the very general structure of the continents.

2) Hyne is in both games. As I explained, they are completely different people. There are many recurring names for enemies in FF, this is just another example.

3) The Floating Continent. As explained, this is not a good point either. Square regularly put stuff in the bottom corner of the map, like the Round Island of FF7. Are we supposed to say FF7 and FF8 are connected now?

4) The clock pointing to 8 and 3. Nice detail, but hardly enough to quailify as a leading hint, as he admits himself.

4 points, none of which are very good at all. So the theory is simply not plausible. Go play FF3 before saying otherwise.
10-02-2005, 03:31 PM
Future Esthar

The DSRC is not probably over the entire continent but just a place on the continent.
The continent is flooded.
10-02-2005, 03:34 PM
Sir Bahamut

Uhuh? Let's sum up that point then:

The research center is in the corner of the FF8 world map.
The Floating Continent is in the corner of the FF3 world map.
We can thus assume that the ruins in the research center are ruins from the Floating Continent, even though there are no such ruins, or structures that could produce such ruins, in FF3.

Doesn't sound that good, does it?
10-02-2005, 03:39 PM
Future Esthar

Castles?
10-02-2005, 03:43 PM
Sir Bahamut

Plenty of castles, but none of which have that spiral staircase thing we see in the beginning of the ruins.
10-02-2005, 03:59 PM
Future Esthar

At least FF8 Ulti´s castle had.
10-02-2005, 04:02 PM
Sir Bahamut

What does that have to do with anything?
10-02-2005, 04:02 PM
Christmas

In FF III, is the floating continent described as a paradise or something like this to the people?
10-02-2005, 05:05 PM
Sir Bahamut

Not at all. The Floating Continent is merely a large land mass, complete with rivers, lakes and all, which was made to float by a machine constructed by the Ancients(akin to the Centra of FF8). Besides that, it's nothing special.
10-02-2005, 05:28 PM
Christmas

Anyway, here is some references.

You found Ultima Weapon wielding a sword similar to Cloud's sword which is also called "Ultima weapon" at the bottom of DSRC.

You can draw a mysterious GF called "Eden" from it.

Quote:

The Garden of Eden story recounts how God created Adam and Eve, commanded them not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and how they were expelled from the garden after they disobeyed Him, having been tempted by a serpent, and ate the fruit. As part of the Expulsion, cherubim and a flaming sword were stationed at the entrance to the garden, in order to prevent man from returning and eating from the Tree of Life.

A sword is stationed to guard Eden.
In FF VI, Atma Weapon came with a package of a sword and a monster.
In FFV II, Ultimate Weapon dropped a sword upon defeat.
In FF VIII, Ultima Weapon wield a sword.

So there is no telling that Ultima Weapon is the sword itself. It is the sword itself that is the "Ultima Weapon". Even if it's not, we know that a sword wielding monster guard Eden, which is close enough.

Quote:

Others point out that the world of Eden's time was destroyed during Noah's Flood and it is therefore impossible to place the Garden anywhere in post-flood geography. There is also an attempt to tie this with the mystical sunken land of Atlantis.

So the location of Eden might be sunken?And we happen to find it under the sea in FF VIII?

BTW, what is the main purposes of visiting DSRC? Personally, I find it as accquiring Eden since this the last and possible thing to do in DSRC. And most rewarding too.

So the whole ruins might be based on mythical references like what Square do with the other FF games.
10-02-2005, 06:50 PM
GunbladeMaster

wow never thought of it like that
10-02-2005, 06:52 PM
boys from the dwarf

FF makes many references to others and i think most of that is true but it would be hard to notice because sqare does some very clever things. thanks for the link.
10-02-2005, 07:10 PM
G SpOtZ

Sir B, you make really good points...

but it's assumed that a LOTTT of time has passed from the time of ff3 and ff8. as time passed, the continent sunk, and scientists discovered this sunken continent, and decided to research it, but first they needed some kind of 'research center' to be able to thoroughly research it. thus, the deep sea research center was created.
if you read the theory, you know it says that bahamut was on the floating continent in ff3, and bahamut is in a research tube thing at the deep sea research center in ff8, so there's a very interesting connection right there.
Also, it talks about the crystals falling upon the ff3 world. well this isn't a very good point, but there are pulsing rocks deep in the research center. could those possibly be referring to it?
10-02-2005, 07:36 PM
Sir Bahamut

A lot of time may have passed, but I just don't see anything backing up the idea that the entire floating continent can be found underneath the sea around the research centre. Nothing backs it up except the fact that they are positioned in approximately the same location on the world map, and as I said, more games than those two have something in the corner of the world map.

I know Bahamut is on the Floating Continent, but it should be noted that he lives on the top of a mountain, not at the bottom of some ruins. Actually, in FF3, Bahamut lays eggs, so I guess I should call him 'she', but anyway.

The glowing rocks and the crystals are not similar to eachother at all. There were 4 Crystals, all big and whole, not split up like in the ruins.
10-02-2005, 07:50 PM
Christmas

BTW, I heard that the Hyne in FF III is a sorcerer with only skeleton. Do he have any skin to cast off with in the first place? :p
10-02-2005, 07:50 PM
G SpOtZ

yeah, bahamut did live at the top of the mountain. and in ff8 you don't find him deep into the dsrc, you find him in a tube right when you enter the research center. but the location doesn't even matter, as the scientists either found bahamut, or bahamuts baby that grew up, and tested expirements on it, so no matter where they found bahamut, they could have moved it or something.

and i know the crystals were big and whole, but is it not possible that they broke up over time and scattered? the scientists DID expirement on everything they found in the dsrc... or at least i'd figure it's safe to assume that.

sure there ARE a lot of flaws and holes in the theory, and it's just a theory after all. i was really interested in the similarities and the points, because they seemed to work better than any other theories i've heard... or at least most of them.
10-02-2005, 07:52 PM
Future Esthar

That and Ulti´s castle since we find a Weapon and what looks to be a darkened GF there.Also there is a tower with a spiral staircase inside.
10-02-2005, 07:57 PM
Gilgamesh of Legends

Bahamut lived untop of a mountain right? The continent sunk and only the highest mountain would be visible. And about the ruins, many civilization had temples on mountain tops(budhists). What says that between a few hundred years they couldnt construst a temple?
10-02-2005, 07:58 PM
Christmas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

That and Ulti´s castle since we find a Weapon and what looks to be a darkened GF there.Also there is a tower with a spiral staircase inside.

Omega Weapon look like a darkened GF to you? What do you mean by darkened and how do you identify a GF anyway? One look at Omega Weapon or that black smoke make you think it is a GF?

So what if both have a spiral staircase, what are you implying?
10-02-2005, 07:59 PM
G SpOtZ

i think he was talking about tiamat.
10-02-2005, 08:06 PM
Future Esthar

I was talking about that dark GF at the clock tower which is said on the forums that is the dark form of Bahamut.(cAN´T REMEMBER NAME).
Edit:Tiamat,that´s it Gspotz.
10-02-2005, 08:10 PM
Gilgamesh of Legends

tiamat USED to be a gf, its not darkened, its been transformed into a monster by the will of Ulti
10-02-2005, 08:11 PM
Christmas

K, I guess I understand now.

Omega Weapon is find in Ulti's castle like Ultima Weapon in the DSRC.
Tiamat in Ulti's castle like Bahamut in DSRC.

But I have an explaination:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknowns

Quote:

Wasn't Griever created from the whole party's minds? I seem to recall Squall of SeeD mentioning something about that. Apparently, Ultimecia talks about creating the ultimate GF "from your minds", or somesuch, in either the original Japanese or in the European translations.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...s2/Griever.jpg

Since Greiver can be created from the whole party mind, we can had another deduction.

Bahamut is known as a powerful GF and as long as it concern, SeeDs most probably know it.

SeeDs attack Ultimecia's castle and Ultimecia just draw it out from the SeeD's mind like how she created the Ultimate GF. She draw it out and created other GF and then corrupt it to turn it into a monster as stated in the scan info?

NOTE: The "scan info" refer to Tiamat scan info and not the picture.

This explains Tiamat.

As for Omega Weapon:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknowns

Note that in FF VI, you fight Atma Weapon and Atma later in the game as an optional boss. Both Atma and Atma Weapon look the same and only with different paint job.

When you fight Atma, he mentioned something:

"Left here since birth....."

It is implied that it is left here in Kefka tower since it is born. And since Kefka Tower existed after the world is undone, so it imply that Atma didn't exist before Atma Weapon's time.

When you fight Atma Weapon he mentioned about:

"My name is Atma... I am pure energy, and as ancient as the cosmos"

Can energy be destroyed? Energy can be transfered and convert into other form of energy.

I reckon that the energy that made Atma weapon sorta converted into other form of energy which made Atma.

So the same might apply to Ultima Weapon and Omega Weapon in FF VIII since their is this incarnation of sword and monster going on and it started in FF VI itself.

But overall, I guess it is just Square didn't bother much to give it a new design.

Here goes for BG-57 simpified version:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BG-57

So you're suggesting that the party may have dispersed Utima Weapon instead of slaying it, where it reformed into Omega during time compression. It's possible, and Omega does first appear as a nebulous cloud of evil that materializes after you ring the bells. Both seem to be able to change from a noncoporeal to coporeal state.

I guess that's about it.
10-02-2005, 08:48 PM
Future Esthar

To say it was the remnants of Ulti´s castle is a lot more simple.
But your explanations can also apply.
Maybe Gf´s and Weapons were created with time travelling properties.
10-02-2005, 08:58 PM
Sir Bahamut

Quote:

BTW, I heard that the Hyne in FF III is a sorcerer with only skeleton. Do he have any skin to cast off with in the first place?

Haha, good point! :D He IS indeed only a skeleton.

Quote:

yeah, bahamut did live at the top of the mountain. and in ff8 you don't find him deep into the dsrc, you find him in a tube right when you enter the research center. but the location doesn't even matter, as the scientists either found bahamut, or bahamuts baby that grew up, and tested expirements on it, so no matter where they found bahamut, they could have moved it or something.

True, but this is purely imagination.

Quote:

and i know the crystals were big and whole, but is it not possible that they broke up over time and scattered? the scientists DID expirement on everything they found in the dsrc... or at least i'd figure it's safe to assume that.

If the Crystals were destroyed, the world of FF3 would have decayed completely, so I don't think that's a possibility.

Quote:

Bahamut lived untop of a mountain right? The continent sunk and only the highest mountain would be visible. And about the ruins, many civilization had temples on mountain tops(budhists). What says that between a few hundred years they couldnt construst a temple?

Of course it's possible, but this is just imagination.

Basically, I agree that there are certain similarities between FF8 and FF3, but not enough similarites to seperate it from all the other recurring stuff put in FF games. You could find links between FF8 and any other FF, but this is just a testament to Square keeping in certain things for tradition, or making references. It certainly is not enough to imply that FF3 and FF8 are the same world. The only valid similarity is the usage of someone called Hyne, and the location of the Floating Continent, both of which require all sorts of imagination to fully explain.

So while there are similarities, there is no deep connection here.
10-02-2005, 09:09 PM
Future Esthar

Was Hyne a skelector on FFIII?
10-02-2005, 09:19 PM
Sir Bahamut

As I said, yes, he was a skeleton. At least, he appeared as a Skeleton with fancy clothes on when you fought him. He used magic, and had an elemental weak point which would change every now and then. Anything else you want to know?
10-02-2005, 09:35 PM
Future Esthar

Did you see Unknowns?
The skelecton at the picture symbolizes Hyne.
He only had a single horn and on the back of his head I suppose.
And his face looks that of a cow or a dog, no?(more of a cow).
10-02-2005, 09:52 PM
Sir Bahamut

What are you talking about?
10-02-2005, 10:39 PM
Future Esthar

It´s about a discussion I had with Unknowns on my last poll.
It was about FF8´s Hyne.

Can you post a screenshot of Hyne here?
10-02-2005, 11:03 PM
Gilgamesh of Legends

hyne has no form in ff8...
10-02-2005, 11:06 PM
Future Esthar

I mean a screenshot of FFIII´s Hyne.
10-02-2005, 11:46 PM
Sir Bahamut

http://www.ffcompendium.com/chara/3hyne-a.jpg

You get the idea...
10-02-2005, 11:51 PM
Future Esthar

Don´t looks like the picture we see on Ulti´s castle (Cowardy).Sad.
10-03-2005, 12:01 AM
G SpOtZ

he looks like a fancy pirate! whoooo!
10-03-2005, 01:35 AM
Future Esthar

Agreed.Is it me or it looks a villain of Monkey Island?
10-03-2005, 01:39 AM
G SpOtZ

it's just you.
10-03-2005, 03:53 AM
Masamune·1600

While I don't agree with Squall's theory in this case (my argument against it doesn't really differ from Sir B.'s), I thought I'd point out for the sake of engendering further discussion that the Legend of Vascaroon states that the half-body given to the people was actually a dead skin. One could argue, then, that the Hyne battled by the "Onion Kids" of FFIII was this half-Hyne, who had already given away the skin. This raises certain issues of chronology and continuity, of course, but I felt it was worth noting.

The same theory was posted on EoFF, as seen in this thread.
10-03-2005, 04:18 AM
G SpOtZ

oh. so that was HIS! hah. it's still awesome.
10-03-2005, 05:16 AM
Christmas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

To say it was the remnants of Ulti´s castle is a lot more simple.
But your explanations can also apply.

To say it had nothing to do with Ulti's castle make it even more simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Maybe Gf´s and Weapons were created with time travelling properties.

Did you read my post or not? I explain how the GF came about. It is created out of other minds like how Greiver is created. As for the weapon,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknowns

Quote:

The Garden of Eden story recounts how God created Adam and Eve, commanded them not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and how they were expelled from the garden after they disobeyed Him, having been tempted by a serpent, and ate the fruit. As part of the Expulsion, cherubim and a flaming sword were stationed at the entrance to the garden, in order to prevent man from returning and eating from the Tree of Life.

A sword is stationed to guard Eden which you can draw it from Ultima Weapon in FF VIII. Lastly, this dude wield a sword.
In FF VI, Atma Weapon came with a package of a sword and a monster which is stated in the game itself stating.
In FFV II, Ultimate Weapon dropped a sword upon defeat. WEAPONS in FF VII are WEAPONS created by the planet. I dun think further details is needed since you played FF VII.
In FF VIII, Ultima Weapon wield a sword similar to Cloud's.

So there is no telling that Ultima Weapon is the sword itself since the sword is called Ultima Weapon too as based on the reference of Eden. As for Omega Weapon, I repeat myself:

Quote:

So you're suggesting that the party may have dispersed Utima Weapon instead of slaying it, where it reformed into Omega during time compression. It's possible, and Omega does first appear as a nebulous cloud of evil that materializes after you ring the bells. Both seem to be able to change from a noncoporeal to coporeal state.

But it might be better to keep it to this: They are just optional bosses to give you a challenge and rewards and they most likely came from the moon since monsters came from the moon.
10-04-2005, 05:12 PM
Future Esthar

Did you had evidence that the energy forms actually move on space?
Maybe only the bodies move.
Wasn´t Atma Weapon on Kefka tower also?
10-04-2005, 07:30 PM
Skyblade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Did you had evidence that the energy forms actually move on space?

Do you have any evidence that they don't?
10-05-2005, 12:09 PM
Christmas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Did you had evidence that the energy forms actually move on space?

I do know energy can be converted to other form of energy

Do you mean move on space as moving in space? What had space travelling gotto to with this?

And lastly dun forget this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyblade

Do you have any evidence that they don't?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Maybe only the bodies move

What do you mean bodies move? If Squall defeated Ultima Weapon in the past, it won't have a body to start with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Wasn´t Atma Weapon on Kefka tower also?

Didn't you read? I already explained:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknowns

Note that in FF VI, you fight Atma Weapon and Atma later in the game as an optional boss. Both Atma and Atma Weapon look the same and only with different paint job.

When you fight Atma, he mentioned something:

"Left here since birth....."

It is implied that it is left here in Kefka tower since it is born. And since Kefka Tower existed after the world is undone, so it imply that Atma didn't exist before Atma Weapon's time.

When you fight Atma Weapon he mentioned about:

"My name is Atma... I am pure energy, and as ancient as the cosmos"

Can energy be destroyed? Energy can be transfered and convert into other form of energy.

I reckon that the energy that made Atma weapon sorta converted into other form of energy which made Atma.

So the same might apply to Ultima Weapon and Omega Weapon in FF VIII since there is this incarnation of sword and monster going on and it started in FF VI itself.

And yes ATMA appear in Kefka tower and not ATMA WEAPON unless you are talking about the sword.