Who is reaaaly X?(And some other revelations)

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10-02-2005, 10:20 PM
Future Esthar

Who is reaaaly X?(And some other revelations)

The Centra people know(through Ellone) that a person from the future is possessing the first sorceress.After being free this sorceress passed her powers to her daughter.The sorceress power passed through her family line.It is passed from mother to daughter(or son).
Through Ellone Vascaroon heard the name of X on the future while being on the body of someone close to him on the future.
But probably the name was mispelled by Vascaroon.
Vascaroon also perceived that X had possessed the sorceress.
The Zebalga tribe was angry because they thought they could use the sorceress against Centra.But they found she wasn´t possessed anymore.And the Centra hunt the possessor but since he/she was on the future it was of no use.

Unfortunately the sorceress was possessed again some time later along with the entire dinasty.

Vascaroon painted his visions through Elle.

This vision was pictured on the "Cowardy" painting at Ulti´s castle.

Vascaroon spelled the name "Hyne" to the Centra.

All this story was corrupted with time becaming the Legend of Vascaroon.

So we know that the approximate name for X is Hyne.
X is Hyne.
10-02-2005, 10:34 PM
MJN SEIFER

That actually makes sense concidering Hyne was the first Soerceress...
10-02-2005, 10:39 PM
Mitch

I think you should compile all your theories on one website or blog (whatever that is) or something.

It would be awesome :)
10-02-2005, 10:52 PM
Gilgamesh of Legends

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

That actually makes sense concidering Hyne was the first Soerceress...

Hyne is a Sorcerer nor a Sorceress
10-02-2005, 10:53 PM
MJN SEIFER

Is there a difference?
10-02-2005, 10:55 PM
Future Esthar

What about Cid?Where did he comes from?
And Martine?
And the fat instructors at Galbadia Garden?
And what about the Owls tears?

Come here and I will tell you.
Don´t loose the next episode.

Quote:

think you should compile all your theories on one website or blog (whatever that is) or something.

It would be awesome

Too lazy to do that.

Quote:

That actually makes sense concidering Hyne was the first Soerceress...

At least supposedly.
10-02-2005, 11:01 PM
Gilgamesh of Legends

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch

I think you should compile all your theories on one website or blog (whatever that is) or something.

It would be awesome :)

please never, it would be too much nonsense :eek:
10-02-2005, 11:15 PM
G SpOtZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Come here and I will tell you.
Don´t loose the next episode.

Can you please stop doing that? It's really annoying lol. how bout you just tell us what you want to tell us all in one post so you don't have to keep telling us to wait? It's rather unnecessary.
10-02-2005, 11:18 PM
Destai

It all makes sense now, Thank you Future Esthar, You've helped me to understand the true meaning of FFVIII! *Vomits*
10-02-2005, 11:39 PM
Gilgamesh of Legends

*whisper*he's thinking he's cool*whisper*
10-03-2005, 12:43 AM
Future Esthar

Master Martine:
A Shumi possessed by Master Laguna Loire.
Objective-To save the world.

Fat instructors at Galbadia Garden:
A Shumi possessed by Ward Zabac.
Objective-To help save the world.

Headmaster Cid
A Shumi possessed by Doc Odine.
Objective-To save the world.

Zone:
A young Shumi possessed by Laguna Loire.
Objective-To save Timber.

Watts:
A young Shumi possessed by Ward Zabac.
Objective-To help save Timber.

Train driver(Forest Owls):
A young Shumi possessed by the doctor assistant(Adel resistance member).
Objective-To help save Timber.

Sleeping guy (Forest owls)
A young Shumi possessed by the old guy who is allways late (Adel resistance member).
Objective-To help save Timber.

Guy at the right of the train driver(Forest owls)
A young Shumi possessed by Kyros Seagil.
Objective-To help save Timber.

Edea/Ultimecia/Adel/Rinoa
Propagator possessed by Hyne
Objective-To rule over Sam Hill.

NORG
Shumi possessed by Hyne
However he had yet to evolve
Objective-To rule over Sam Hill.

Deling/Caraway
Shumi possessed by Hyne
Already evolved
Objective-To rule over Sam Hill.

Garden faculty(Balamb).
Shumi possessed by Hyne.
Had not evolved yet.
Objective-To rule over Sam Hill.

Gerogero
Is not really a monster but a Shumi near the evolving transition.
10-03-2005, 12:46 AM
G SpOtZ

wtF was that?
10-03-2005, 12:52 AM
Gilgamesh of Legends

ok...EVIDENCE PLZ
10-03-2005, 01:44 AM
Future Esthar

Think about it hard.
10-03-2005, 01:46 AM
G SpOtZ

NO. just tell us. we can't possibly know what's going on inside that jumbled up imaginative mind of urs.
10-03-2005, 01:51 AM
Future Esthar

The evidence I had is not evidence at all.
It would go forever if we argue.
10-03-2005, 01:51 AM
Gilgamesh of Legends

how are they shumi's HOW?!
10-03-2005, 02:00 AM
tan

we may never know o_O
Future Esthar, you post nonsense. FFVIII is a game. NOT THE BIBLE. It's nice to read between the lines, but by God, go find something else to do.
(I hope I don't sound like I'm flaming you, because I'm not)
10-03-2005, 02:03 AM
Gilgamesh of Legends

you should be
10-03-2005, 02:17 AM
Future Esthar

Script:
Shumi-"We became what is on our hearts"

The shumi is talking about how they evolve.

This was how the fake president appears.
Hyne possessed a Shumi which turn to gerogero.
Then gerogero transformed into the fake president.

Also,there is a link between Shumi´s and Garden as we all know.

Concerning the Forest Owls:

Laguna knew the Shumi tribe.

The ancient members know that I think that Rinoa is the True Ellone.

General Caraway,possessed by Hyne,decided to close Rinoa inside house.
There is a mechanism on the house that seals Elle´s powers.That´s why.
Laguna,Kyros and Ward know this and possessed Shumi´s to save Ellone.
They also make sure that she meets with Squall.
I am sleepy.Will continue tomorrow.
10-03-2005, 02:22 AM
G SpOtZ

you're insane. there, i said it.
10-03-2005, 02:23 AM
Skyblade

Quote:

Originally Posted by G SpOtZ

you're insane. there, i said it.

I said it first.
10-03-2005, 02:30 AM
G SpOtZ

^_^
10-03-2005, 02:49 AM
Gilgamesh of Legends

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HES FINALLY SNAPPED, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :bigbiggri :bigbiggri :bigbiggri :bigbiggri :bigbiggri :bigbiggri
10-03-2005, 03:16 AM
Takara

I still want to know wtf he's smoking to come up with all this nonsense...
10-03-2005, 03:20 AM
Skyblade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takara

I still want to know wtf he's smoking to come up with all this nonsense...

Potassium Nitrate + Sulpher + Charcoal.
10-03-2005, 03:25 AM
Mitch

Yeah I think FE needs to get out more
10-03-2005, 04:04 AM
Christmas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

So we know that the approximate name for X is Hyne.
X is Hyne.

What? Didn't I have tell you ages ago? This is the truth:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknowns

I can see there is much linkage of FF8 and FF X after being "enlighten" by Future's Theories.

Hyne is the almighty god of FF 8 and the first sorceress.
Yu Yevon is the "god" of FF X and the leader of summoners.

There are two major civilizations in the game, Centra and Esthar but Centra was destroyed.

In FF X, Zanarkand and Bevelle was the two major civilizations and Zanarkand was destroyed.

In FF 8, Esthar speciallized in machine and technology while it is a mystery of what the Centra people specialized in.

In FF X, Bevelle specialized in machine and technology while Zanarkand their precious summoners.

Mysterious points known as "draw points" is seen popping out of the ground in FF 8 which is much believe is the point that lead to the spirit energies of the farplane in FF X.

A deep sea research center is built in the middle of nowhere to dig deep in the ground for research purposes. I believe they are digging for the passageway to the farplane. Those must be the work of Shinra.

So I assume Zanarkand is actually Centra!!! After Yuna save the world the second time, people begin inhabited and rebuild Zanarkand. But history repeats itself and Zanarkand got destroyed....again.
And Bevelle move on with its technology until the Lunar cry which wipe out the Centra. Also, Besaid island might just be Balamb.

We were told that Yu Yevon is an immortal and won't kick the bucket that easily so I assume Yu Yevon live on for centuries bidding his time. As time goes by, people will forget about Yu Yevon so he resurfaced as Hyne. Yu Yevon also know as Hyne pass his power to other sorceress and those that receive his powers is under his mercy.

Sorceress that receive his powers is condemned by those around her and in anger, sorceress unleash their wrath upon humans. When sorceress is upon the blink of death, they pass their powers to other sorceress and continued their terror.

See the link? This is like Spira's "Spiral of Death" and the sorceress is just other Sin used by Yevon/Hyne.

After getting to heard of Ellone/Rinoa, Yevon came up with a even evilier plot than the old school "Spiral of Death" which is time compression. So he picked on a suitable candidate which hold his powers to do the job which happen to be Edea\Uli\Julia. That explain why Uti\Edea\Julia can only possess sorceress.

So, "X" = Hyne/Yevon.

What an ingenious story...I mean theory I have.

Here we have it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

The evidence I had is not evidence at all.
It would go forever if we argue.

Then pls dun go saying around those are the truth since almost everyone we know now is either a Shumi or a Propagator.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Think about it hard.

I can said all this are crap because I thought hard enough to come up with this conclusion and I dun need any evidence like you do and it fit the game events and graphical details well.
10-03-2005, 12:41 PM
crazybayman

Yet another thread of this nonsense.

FE, get a life.
10-03-2005, 08:11 PM
MJN SEIFER

Quote:

Too lazy to do that.

Just sign up on "Live Journal" it's very easy. All you have to do then is just type in you're theorys.

Quote:

Master Martine:
A Shumi possessed by Master Laguna Loire.
Objective-To save the world.

Fat instructors at Galbadia Garden:
A Shumi possessed by Ward Zabac.
Objective-To help save the world.

Headmaster Cid
A Shumi possessed by Doc Odine.
Objective-To save the world.

Zone:
A young Shumi possessed by Laguna Loire.
Objective-To save Timber.

Watts:
A young Shumi possessed by Ward Zabac.
Objective-To help save Timber.

Train driver(Forest Owls):
A young Shumi possessed by the doctor assistant(Adel resistance member).
Objective-To help save Timber.

Sleeping guy (Forest owls)
A young Shumi possessed by the old guy who is allways late (Adel resistance member).
Objective-To help save Timber.

Guy at the right of the train driver(Forest owls)
A young Shumi possessed by Kyros Seagil.
Objective-To help save Timber.

Edea/Ultimecia/Adel/Rinoa
Propagator possessed by Hyne
Objective-To rule over Sam Hill.

NORG
Shumi possessed by Hyne
However he had yet to evolve
Objective-To rule over Sam Hill.

Deling/Caraway
Shumi possessed by Hyne
Already evolved
Objective-To rule over Sam Hill.

Garden faculty(Balamb).
Shumi possessed by Hyne.
Had not evolved yet.
Objective-To rule over Sam Hill.

Gerogero
Is not really a monster but a Shumi near the evolving transition.

I've always suspected that Cid and Martine (And maybe some of the "facultys") where shumis, I never suspected the "Owls" though but it's sounds good to me...

Quote:

we may never know o_O
Future Esthar, you post nonsense. FFVIII is a game. NOT THE BIBLE. It's nice to read between the lines, but by God, go find something else to do.

WTF? tan you're a F***ing hypocrite mate!!

Yes, it's a game. but a game WITH A STORY!! Are films just films? Is TV just TV? If anything Future's posts are keeping FFVIII going.

Quote:

Script:
Shumi-"We became what is on our hearts"

The shumi is talking about how they evolve.

This was how the fake president appears.
Hyne possessed a Shumi which turn to gerogero.
Then gerogero transformed into the fake president.

That's so simple even Gilgamesh Of Ledgends *should* understand it...

Quote:

Concerning the Forest Owls:

Laguna knew the Shumi tribe.

The ancient members know that I think that Rinoa is the True Ellone.

General Caraway,possessed by Hyne,decided to close Rinoa inside house.
There is a mechanism on the house that seals Elle´s powers.That´s why.
Laguna,Kyros and Ward know this and possessed Shumi´s to save Ellone.
They also make sure that she meets with Squall.
I am sleepy.Will continue tomorrow.

I see. It makes sense towards the conection of the characters and that, The shumis mention Rinoa before she's there...

Quote:

Yet another thread of this nonsense.

FE, get a life

.

And maybe he can pick one up for you, Gilgamaesh of Ledgends, Tan, and any other of you who devote there forum time to moaning a t JUST ONE PERSON! That there's nothing more pathetic then that!
10-03-2005, 09:04 PM
GunbladeMaster

Applaus and hats off to ya for defending FE so well
10-03-2005, 09:05 PM
Skyblade

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

Quote:

Yet another thread of this nonsense.

FE, get a life

.

And maybe he can pick one up for you, Gilgamaesh of Ledgends, Tan, and any other of you who devote there forum time to moaning a t JUST ONE PERSON! That there's nothing more pathetic then that!

He devotes his time to spreading bull$#!+. Why is that ok, but devoting time to saying that he spreads bull$#!+ isn't?
10-03-2005, 09:18 PM
MJN SEIFER

Quote:

He devotes his time to spreading bull$#!+. Why is that ok, but devoting time to saying that he spreads bull$#!+ isn't?

That's because it's his right there are no laws against theroyising, he may be wrong, he may be right (A lot of what he put made sense to me) It's only "Bul[img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img]" (Note to mods doesn't count as me saying it) becuaes you don't like it. So there is a way you can avoid it....DON'T READ IT! It's much easier than bitching about it.

If people didn't theorise we'd still belive that the world is flat.
10-03-2005, 09:25 PM
Skyblade

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

Quote:

He devotes his time to spreading bull$#!+. Why is that ok, but devoting time to saying that he spreads bull$#!+ isn't?

That's because it's his right there are no laws against theroyising, he may be wrong, he may be right (A lot of what he put made sense to me) It's only "Bul[img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img]" (Note to mods doesn't count as me saying it) becuaes you don't like it. So there is a way you can avoid it....DON'T READ IT! It's much easier than bitching about it.

If people didn't theorise we'd still belive that the world is flat.

There's no laws against bitching at people either, so by your own arguement, you shouldn't have a problem with what we say to him. And the fact is that 95% of the theories he has presented have been proven false. He just keeps denying all counter-arguements, ignoring all logic used against, presenting the most ridiculous crap as evidence (like his recent insistence that a single line comment "what in Sam hill" was absolute proof that there was time traveling going on in space, and that Winhill was called Sam hill in the future). I call it bull$#!+ because it is bull$#!+. And there are way too many threads dedicated to it on this forum.
10-03-2005, 09:27 PM
Future Esthar

Quote:

Script:
Shumi-"We became what is on our hearts"

The shumi is talking about how they evolve.

This was how the fake president appears.
Hyne possessed a Shumi which turn to gerogero.
Then gerogero transformed into the fake president.

Also,there is a link between Shumi´s and Garden as we all know.

Concerning the Forest Owls:

Laguna knew the Shumi tribe.

The ancient members know that I think that Rinoa is the True Ellone.

General Caraway,possessed by Hyne,decided to close Rinoa inside house.
There is a mechanism on the house that seals Elle´s powers.That´s why.
Laguna,Kyros and Ward know this and possessed Shumi´s to save Ellone.
They also make sure that she meets with Squall.
I am sleepy.Will continue tomorrow.

Continuing.

They make sure she meets with Squall because they know Squall is Elle´s Knight.
Also,as it´s obvious from the game, they know that Rinoa was a princess of the Centra Dinasty.
I found it fun how Squall behaves arrogantly towards Zone not knowing who are the persons on Owls tears.He don´t even realizes that Zone was the one who restrained Adel.
They were geniuses.
Genius things they did:
1-They asked a letter from Cid and then they convinced the White Seed to ask a letter from Edea.
2-Knowing that the fake president is a shumi possessed by Hyne they make a statue of the person Laguna(Vascaroon) saw on the future,they then dressed the statue as the president and wait to see if it wold fool the soldiers.
They don´t wanna to arrest the president just to free Timber but to force Seed´s into battle to force the president to evolve back to gerogero.
This was an experiment performed by them to force the president to reveal it´s Shumi nature.Laguna know the shumi´s and easily spotted that gerogero looks like a shumi.
Laguna also knows that a shumi become what is on their hearts(and he has possessed one in the proccess).
The conclusion of the experiment was that Deling was a shumi possessed by Hyne.
3-That thing about running after the train was just a representation to make them look fool AND AS A TRAINING TO USE THAT TO FOOL THE GALBADIAN SOLDIERS AND SAVE OUR CHARACTERS ON THE DESERT PRISION STATION.

Hyne failed because our characters scaped from prison.
As a last attempt he use the excuse that the sorceress is gonna to retaliate on Garden
and that they should show their sincerity to Edea.
He said that through Norg.His objective was to kill Seed.

That about covers the evidence about the shumi theory
10-03-2005, 09:34 PM
Gilgamesh of Legends

thats not evidence, thats fanfiction, realize the difference
10-03-2005, 09:56 PM
Destai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilgamesh of Legends

thats not evidence, thats fanfiction, realize the difference

He knows the difference. He just doesnt want to admit it.
10-03-2005, 10:04 PM
G SpOtZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilgamesh of Legends

thats not evidence, thats fanfiction, realize the difference

He knows the difference. He just doesnt want to admit it.

word.
10-03-2005, 10:05 PM
Future Esthar

I didn´t said absolute proof.I said evidence.

You should argue more MJN Seifer.
Don´t be afraid of it.
And where did the shumis mention Rinoa?
10-03-2005, 10:06 PM
G SpOtZ

evidence=proof
10-03-2005, 10:07 PM
Skyblade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

I didn´t said absolute proof.I said evidence.

You should argue more MJN Seifer.
Don´t be afraid of it.
And where did the shumis mention Rinoa?

So you only think that people who agree with you should argue more?
10-03-2005, 10:07 PM
Gilgamesh of Legends

so your trying to convince us that your theory is GOD without EVIDENCE
10-03-2005, 10:20 PM
Destai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

I didn´t said absolute proof.I said evidence.

You should argue more MJN Seifer.
Don´t be afraid of it.
And where did the shumis mention Rinoa?

You also ignore evidence against your theorys. Constantly.
10-03-2005, 10:46 PM
Future Esthar

Quote:

so your trying to convince us that your theory is GOD without EVIDENCE

__________________

No,I post my theory for information purposes only.

Quote:

So you only think that people who agree with you should argue more?

You are being unfair here.There are people who agrees with me but they usually don´t argue much.
Can´t I ask them to argue?
10-03-2005, 10:48 PM
G SpOtZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Quote:

so your trying to convince us that your theory is GOD without EVIDENCE

__________________

No,I post my theory for information purposes only.

Quote:

So you only think that people who agree with you should argue more?

You are being unfair here.There are people who agrees with me but they usually don´t argue much.
Can´t I ask them to argue?

1) false information

2) mjn siefer seems to be doing a lot of arguing.
10-03-2005, 10:54 PM
Future Esthar

1-How do you know?Can you prove this?
2- start to make on this thread and I hope he continues
10-03-2005, 10:56 PM
G SpOtZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

1-How do you know?Can you prove this?
2- start to make on this thread and I hope he continues

oh my god lol yes, it's already been proven that ur theories are false and the information you give isn't "evidence." how are you so blind to this?
10-03-2005, 10:58 PM
Destai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

I didn´t said absolute proof.I said evidence.

You should argue more MJN Seifer.
Don´t be afraid of it.
And where did the shumis mention Rinoa?

You also ignore evidence against your theorys. Constantly.
10-03-2005, 11:07 PM
Future Esthar

Says who?
You are one of the persons who don´t really argue nothing and just keep saying subjective judgements.

In fact many of the game favour my theories.They don´t prove but favour.
Most of it were factual context and graphical details.
If you keep saying subjective things without arguing then I take GoL words and say shut up.
10-03-2005, 11:11 PM
G SpOtZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Says who?
You are one of the persons who don´t really argue nothing and just keep saying subjective judgements.

In fact many of the game favour my theories.They don´t prove but favour.
Most of it were factual context and graphical details.
If you keep saying subjective things without arguing then I take GoL words and say shut up.

you OBVIOUSLY do NOT listen to what other people have to say! i've already proved some of your theories wrong with logic and evidence from the game, you can even go back and check through them, several people have proved them wrong.
10-03-2005, 11:21 PM
Leeza

G SpOtZ and everyone else that this applies to and you know who you are: No one is twisting your arm to come in to these threads so if you do come in, do not do so just to argue and complain.
10-04-2005, 12:04 AM
Future Esthar

GSpotz,I remember you arguing with me twice.
Both of them was about the "time traveling on space" thing.
But other than that...
10-04-2005, 03:19 AM
Terror of Zanarkand

im sooooo confuzzled -_-
10-04-2005, 03:49 AM
Optium

I think you guys who, every time FE posts, reply telling him to shut up and
stop coming up with theories are fools.

Who cares if he wants to post his amazingly imaginitive ideas here? If you
don't like them, don't read them. If you think they're wrong, argue them
either from an opposing viewpoint with reference to the game--as opposed
to FE's character being used as the only basis of argument--or as an
iminent criticism.

FE, I always love your ideas. I think many of them are not true, by
which I mean that the makers of the game did not necessarily intend
them, but I love that you can look at something and see it in a
completely differentway than anyone else. Not only this, but you can
connect seemingly seperate--even opposing--circumstances and ideas
to come up with extremely interesting theories.

Keep it up man, seriously. I LOVE to overanalyze certain things such as
music or movies, and I'd probably do it with FFs if I knew the stories
more. Usually though I have trouble playing the game more than once.

.opt

edit, oh. Looks like Leeza sort of beat me to it. But um....to reiterate
her point... ;p
10-04-2005, 03:51 AM
Leeza

I like your words, Optium. :)
10-04-2005, 05:08 AM
Kamrusepas

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

Is there a difference?

Yes. Sorcerer=male, sorceress=female.
I for one always thought Hyne was female. Must replay to be sure...

And to FE:
You have some interesting ideas for sure, but sometimes you do go a bit overboard.
A vivid imagination like yours is a good thing to have, but you need some more concrete evidence to convince others :)
10-04-2005, 01:06 PM
Christmas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Script:
Shumi-"We became what is on our hearts"

The shumi is talking about how they evolve.

This was how the fake president appears.
Hyne possessed a Shumi which turn to gerogero.
Then gerogero transformed into the fake president.

You are talking like as though Shumi are shapeshifters which can become anything.

The line clearly spoke they become bad or good things depending whether they hearts are defilled or pure. Just like how Elder become Elder and NORG being an outcast.

It is not like Shumi think he is Laguna then he evolve into Laguna. This is absurd.

Did anywhere in the game tell you one of the form they evolve is human?

And I have some explainations of my own why Shumi can't become humans.

First, If Shumi become human, then the human he became will go interact with other humans and everyone will know about these Demi-humans. But no one or isn't anywhere in the game mention about Demi-humans nor do the Shumi themselves mentioned.

Second, If they can became humans, why are they isolating themselves from the other humans since humans are basically what they will become.

Third,

Quote:

Shumis change as they grow, depending on their environment. They are peaceful, and only allow merchants into their home

Why do they allow only merchants and not tourists and other visitors, since who knows one of the humans is what they evolved to and come back for a visit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJN Seifer

And maybe he can pick one up for you, Gilgamaesh of Ledgends, Tan, and any other of you who devote there forum time to moaning a t JUST ONE PERSON! That there's nothing more pathetic then that!

I post arguements and usually backed with evidence and logic when I go "moaning" at this particular person's theories instead of the person you are talking about. It might not seem like it to you but those are the facts and logics I gathered from the game and myself. I have no intentions of giving him names or what not but his main problems is his theory.

And most of the people do not "moan" at him until he disagreed and ignore all opinions/arguements post by others with no valid evidence nor explaination and just because he think it fits well with his so called graphical details that is so minor that he cares so much about and but doesn't know stuffs that isn't minor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJN Seifer

That's because it's his right there are no laws against theroyising, he may be wrong, he may be right (A lot of what he put made sense to me) It's only "Bul" (Note to mods doesn't count as me saying it) becuaes you don't like it. So there is a way you can avoid it....DON'T READ IT! It's much easier than bitching about it.

Since he posted here, we have the right to point out the flaws and loopholes in his theories to show how "wrong" it will be instead of it ever being near to "right".

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJN Seifer

If people didn't theorise we'd still belive that the world is flat.

If people didn't theorise the world is flat in the first place, we wouldn't believe it is flat. Same goes for Future Esthar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Also,there is a link between Shumi´s and Garden as we all know.

NORG is an outcast from the Shumi. He basically lost the basic integrity of a Shumi. And all NORG do is provide fundings for the Garden then pocket the profits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

The ancient members know that I think that Rinoa is the True Ellone.

I thnk I am the only "ancient members" that know this and post here and no, that picture of yours still can't determine Rinoa is Ellone since you are the only person in the world that see Rinoa's spilting images as Ellone's

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

General Caraway,possessed by Hyne,decided to close Rinoa inside house.
There is a mechanism on the house that seals Elle´s powers.That´s why.
Laguna,Kyros and Ward know this and possessed Shumi´s to save Ellone.
They also make sure that she meets with Squall.

I think I already explained in an ancient thread that Ellone isn't Rinoa based on your deductions of Ellone being adopted and send to orphanage then back to General Caraway who changed her name.

So why didn't Rinoa tell her most loved one Squall how her father ill-treated her since she tell Squall everything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

No,I post my theory for information purposes only.

No, you post your theory for mis-information purposes which is as good as posts inflammatory messages intended to cause a disruption.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

You are being unfair here.There are people who agrees with me but they usually don´t argue much.
Can´t I ask them to argue?

Are they your followers or something? Do you intend to form some soft of club with you as their leader worshipping you and heed to your call?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

-How do you know?Can you prove this?

Well:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

The evidence I had is not evidence at all.

G-SpotZ also doesn't need evidence nor proof to say it too then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

In fact many of the game favour my theories.They don´t prove but favour.
Most of it were factual context and graphical details.

The game favour more of my X= Yu Yevon and FF X is related to FF VIII more than yours.
10-04-2005, 03:57 PM
Future Esthar

Quote:

You are talking like as though Shumi are shapeshifters which can become anything.

The line clearly spoke they become bad or good things depending whether they hearts are defilled or pure. Just like how Elder become Elder and NORG being an outcast.

It is not like Shumi think he is Laguna then he evolve into Laguna. This is absurd.

Did anywhere in the game tell you one of the form they evolve is human?

And I have some explainations of my own why Shumi can't become humans.

First, If Shumi become human, then the human he became will go interact with other humans and everyone will know about these Demi-humans. But no one or isn't anywhere in the game mention about Demi-humans nor do the Shumi themselves mentioned.

Second, If they can became humans, why are they isolating themselves from the other humans since humans are basically what they will become.

Third,

Quote:
Shumis change as they grow, depending on their environment. They are peaceful, and only allow merchants into their home

Why do they allow only merchants and not tourists and other visitors, since who knows one of the humans is what they evolved to and come back for a visit.

Ah,ah,ah,ah,ah,ah,ah.
You didn´t understood nothing of what I said did you ?

I said they ere POSSESSED.
POSSESSED.

So your arguments had nothing to do with what I said.
10-04-2005, 04:07 PM
Christmas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Ah,ah,ah,ah,ah,ah,ah.
You didn´t understood nothing of what I said did you ?

I said they ere POSSESSED.
POSSESSED.

So your arguments had nothing to do with what I said.

Well, you said all of them are Shumis here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Master Martine:
A Shumi possessed by Master Laguna Loire.
Objective-To save the world.

Fat instructors at Galbadia Garden:
A Shumi possessed by Ward Zabac.
Objective-To help save the world.

Headmaster Cid
A Shumi possessed by Doc Odine.
Objective-To save the world.

Zone:
A young Shumi possessed by Laguna Loire.
Objective-To save Timber.

Watts:
A young Shumi possessed by Ward Zabac.
Objective-To help save Timber.

Train driver(Forest Owls):
A young Shumi possessed by the doctor assistant(Adel resistance member).
Objective-To help save Timber.

Sleeping guy (Forest owls)
A young Shumi possessed by the old guy who is allways late (Adel resistance member).
Objective-To help save Timber.

Guy at the right of the train driver(Forest owls)
A young Shumi possessed by Kyros Seagil.
Objective-To help save Timber.

Edea/Ultimecia/Adel/Rinoa
Propagator possessed by Hyne
Objective-To rule over Sam Hill.

NORG
Shumi possessed by Hyne
However he had yet to evolve
Objective-To rule over Sam Hill.

Deling/Caraway
Shumi possessed by Hyne
Already evolved
Objective-To rule over Sam Hill.

Garden faculty(Balamb).
Shumi possessed by Hyne.
Had not evolved yet.
Objective-To rule over Sam Hill.

So being possessed enable them to change shape to human????
Then what you post deny what you stated:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Script:
Shumi-"We became what is on our hearts"

The shumi is talking about how they evolve.

Did Rinoa or Edea turned into Squall or Cid when they got possessed by Ultimecia?

Where do you get the idea of being possessed enable one to change shape and form?
10-04-2005, 05:04 PM
Future Esthar

Heart usually means soul,not mind.
But it can be an exception here.
The phrase means that shumis shift to the form of the ones possessing them(the ones on their mind).
If a shumi is not possessed they can become noble creature(moombas,etc...) if they have a good heart and a dark creature if they had a bad heart.
10-04-2005, 05:33 PM
Destai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Says who?
You are one of the persons who don´t really argue nothing and just keep saying subjective judgements.

In fact many of the game favour my theories.They don´t prove but favour.
Most of it were factual context and graphical details.
If you keep saying subjective things without arguing then I take GoL words and say shut up.

I've argued with you plenty of times in the past and you ignored any points you couldnt explain dissproving your theories. So says me.
10-04-2005, 06:07 PM
Future Esthar

People who like reading my theories!
If you wanna me to tell you about the secret of WOTC just tell me and I will send you a PM.
10-04-2005, 07:07 PM
UnlimitedBlueSky

I'm so confused... My poor head...

After reading this twice, I STILL have no clue at what you're aiming at. Are you trying to point out that Shumis are evil? Or that they just turn into human like beings at some point?

This is even stranger than the last ones I've seen...

In my opinion, if we match this theory to something in this world, pigs would have wings.
10-04-2005, 07:25 PM
Future Esthar

When people possess Shumi´s they became like the person who possess them.
10-04-2005, 07:32 PM
Skyblade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

When people possess Shumi´s they became like the person who possess them.

Where did the game ever indicate that Shumis can possess people?
10-04-2005, 07:46 PM
UnlimitedBlueSky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyblade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

When people possess Shumi´s they became like the person who possess them.

Where did the game ever indicate that Shumis can possess people?

Exactly Skyblade. When did they say that? Or indicate?
10-04-2005, 07:51 PM
Sir Bahamut

They don't. People have to understand that Future is just making up a load of crap because he's a troll. Trying to make sense out of it, or trying to apply logic on Future or his theories is akin to trying to play chess with a brick wall.

[leeza]Read this quote and pay attention. This a Warning. ~ Leeza[/leeza]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeza

G SpOtZ and everyone else that this applies to and you know who you are: No one is twisting your arm to come in to these threads so if you do come in, do not do so just to argue and complain.
10-04-2005, 07:54 PM
UnlimitedBlueSky

LOL. I've noticed. I've been reading these theories and other threads for two months before getting an account. And I've noticed a pattern in it.

Pattern:

1. FE comes up with a theory (its either logical or none logical)
2. Proves to be logical-ish and then some one says something very important
3. FE rambles on and points out himself (by mistake), that his theory didn't make sense.
4. FE makes a fool of himself when he still tries to point out that he's right.

[leeza]Warning for you as well. If you can't come into these threads to debate these theories without attacking FE's character, then do not post. Very simple. ~ Leeza[/leeza]
10-04-2005, 08:32 PM
crazybayman

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnlimitedBlueSky

LOL. I've noticed. I've been reading these theories and other threads for two months before getting an account. And I've noticed a pattern in it.

Pattern:

1. FE comes up with a theory (its either logical or none logical)
2. Proves to be logical-ish and then some one says something very important
3. FE rambles on and points out himself (by mistake), that his theory didn't make sense.
4. FE makes a fool of himself when he still tries to point out that he's right.

You catch on quick :p

[leeza]You really don't want another warning as well, do you? ~ Leeza[/leeza]
10-04-2005, 09:56 PM
G SpOtZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut

They don't. People have to understand that Future is just making up a load of crap because he's a troll. Trying to make sense out of it, or trying to apply logic on Future or his theories is akin to trying to play chess with a brick wall.

Me: hmm...*moves chess piece*... check.
Brick Wall: *moves chess piece*. check mate.
Me: AWGHH!!!!!!! *knows over chess board and pieces off table in anger*
10-05-2005, 11:58 AM
Christmas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Heart usually means soul,not mind.
But it can be an exception here.
The phrase means that shumis shift to the form of the ones possessing them(the ones on their mind).
If a shumi is not possessed they can become noble creature(moombas,etc...) if they have a good heart and a dark creature if they had a bad heart.

Why is there an exception? Cause you said so?

And "on our hearts" mean whether the heart is pure or defilled not some soul went into their heart and they just take the form of that soul.

So it is as good as saying if Laguna possessed a Shumi and Laguna is "on their heart" then the Shumi will evolve into Laguna.

And BTW, Zone look no where like Laguna.
10-05-2005, 09:42 PM
G SpOtZ

the only similarities between zone and laguna are how they act around girls, and their random reactions of pain to things..(ie laguna's leg cramp, zone's stomach ache)

but that's it.
10-05-2005, 09:47 PM
Gilgamesh of Legends

ya ever think of common design? they close to each other cause the same PERSON developed them...jeez
10-06-2005, 02:09 PM
Future Esthar

Quote:

the only similarities between zone and laguna are how they act around girls, and their random reactions of pain to things..(ie laguna's leg cramp, zone's stomach ache)

Gotcha.You don´t even know if the "stomach" thingy was to uncover the "leg cramp" thingy.

Unknowns,I had the care to say "young shumi".
Mass can´t change.So Laguna will appear younger of course.
Also,they were smart enough to get a clothe different than the ones they usually dress.

And are the persons with common design supposed to had the same personality,GoL?

And people on FF8 had different design as it´s obvious.

Where do I said that Shumi possess people,Skyblade?
I never said that.
10-06-2005, 05:11 PM
Skyblade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Quote:

the only similarities between zone and laguna are how they act around girls, and their random reactions of pain to things..(ie laguna's leg cramp, zone's stomach ache)

Gotcha.You don´t even know if the "stomach" thingy was to uncover the "leg cramp" thingy.

Unknowns,I had the care to say "young shumi".
Mass can´t change.So Laguna will appear younger of course.
Also,they were smart enough to get a clothe different than the ones they usually dress.

And are the persons with common design supposed to had the same personality,GoL?

And people on FF8 had different design as it´s obvious.

Where do I said that Shumi possess people,Skyblade?
I never said that.

What do you mean by the stomach thing "uncovering" the leg thing?

If mass can't change then Propagator's cannot disguise themselves as humans, because there is a definite difference in mass there.

I agree that the idea that they are similar characters just because they are designed by the same person is silly, but that doesn't mean that your idea is right either.

Oh, no, you say that Shumi's can be possessed by other people. Sorry, I misread your statement. Now please explain how other people can possess Shumis.
10-06-2005, 07:14 PM
Future Esthar

"We become what is on our hearts"

The interpretation I give to this lead me to conclude that when shumis are possessed their body became like that of the one who possesses them.

QUOTE]If mass can't change then Propagator's cannot disguise themselves as humans, because there is a definite difference in mass there.[/QUOTE]

Forget the "mass" thingy.

What I mean is that when a young shumi is possessed by an adult the shumi will look like a teenager obviously.

Zone has no pain on his stomach.He has pains on his legs but he is good to desguise it.
10-06-2005, 09:03 PM
Gilgamesh of Legends

Proof? You are not Zone.
10-06-2005, 09:06 PM
Destai

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

"We become what is on our hearts"

The interpretation I give to this lead me to conclude that when shumis are possessed their body became like that of the one who possesses them.

QUOTE]If mass can't change then Propagator's cannot disguise themselves as humans, because there is a definite difference in mass there.

Forget the "mass" thingy.

What I mean is that when a young shumi is possessed by an adult the shumi will look like a teenager obviously.

Zone has no pain on his stomach.He has pains on his legs but he is good to desguise it.

geez thats dumb, Well then why do Zones legs make stomach noises xD?
10-07-2005, 05:16 PM
Christmas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Unknowns,I had the care to say "young shumi".
Mass can´t change.So Laguna will appear younger of course.
Also,they were smart enough to get a clothe different than the ones they usually dress.
.

Why dun you go look at the ending FMV where the young laguna proposed to Raine and compare it to the present Laguna at Raine's grave.

Do they look so different that you cannot recongnize them as the same person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Guy at the right of the train driver(Forest owls)
A young Shumi possessed by Kyros Seagil.
Objective-To help save Timber.

Kiros had dark skin, do this Shumi have since it take the form of Kiros.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Master Martine:
A Shumi possessed by Master Laguna Loire.
Objective-To save the world.

Fat instructors at Galbadia Garden:
A Shumi possessed by Ward Zabac.
Objective-To help save the world.

Zone:
A young Shumi possessed by Laguna Loire.
Objective-To save Timber.

Watts:
A young Shumi possessed by Ward Zabac.
Objective-To help save Timber.

So Laguna and Ward possessed two Shumi at the same time? Why not Laguna possess all of them or vice versa.

And Lastly, I said before, Shumi became whatever depend on whether they are bad or good not taking the form of someone who possess them.
10-07-2005, 05:34 PM
Winter Nights

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

What I mean is that when a young shumi is possessed by an adult the shumi will look like a teenager obviously.

Zone has no pain on his stomach.He has pains on his legs but he is good to desguise it.

A) There is no indication whatsoever that Zone resembles Laguna, while there is strong indication that Squall does. Plus, the fact that we see a younger Laguna, everytime Squall and company are put to sleep by Ellone. He doesn't look that different from his older self.

B) The game clearly indicates that he is having stomache cramps. To say that he is pretend that his leg pain is in his stomache is just nonsense. You even hear his stomache gurgle.
10-07-2005, 05:40 PM
Future Esthar

Quote:

Why dun you go look at the ending FMV where the young laguna proposed to Raine and compare it to the present Laguna at Raine's grave.

Do they look so different that you cannot recongnize them as the same person.

I was talking about teenagers Unknowns.
And I recognize Zone as Laguna.

Quote:

So Laguna and Ward possessed two Shumi at the same time? Why not Laguna possess all of them or vice vers

Team work.Something which relates with his personality.
10-07-2005, 05:45 PM
Destai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destai

Well then why do Zones legs make stomach noises xD?

yeah I still dont get it.
10-07-2005, 06:06 PM
Winter Nights

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

I was talking about teenagers Unknowns.
And I recognize Zone as Laguna.

A)Teenagers usually look marginally like their older selves. Just less aged. He'd look more like alot like Squall, as their resemblence is easy to see. You make it sound like teenagers' facial structure will be completely different, when they get older. This just isn't true.

B)Like most NPCs in FF8, you never see Zone's face clear enough to make the claim that you recognize him as Laguna. And what little you CAN see looks nothing like Laguna.
10-07-2005, 06:22 PM
Future Esthar

You all people thinks (like Squall) that the Owls tears were a bunch of stupid jokers.

But they were genious.
The owls tears were founded by Zone and Watts.
Zone was initially the leader.It wasn´t until they save Rinoa that they pass their leadership to her and the woman who lives at the side of Timber Maniacs.
So,zone is a leader like Laguna.

And no Rinoa is not the stupid child you think she is.

Rinoa was clever to get to the sorceress room and try to offer Odine bangle to Edea.
The Owls tears had planned it long ago.It wasn´t just Rinoa´s idea.

Quote:

Well then why do Zones legs make stomach noises xD?

They are good actors.Don´t forget Laguna once made a film.
You don´t realized this but it was Watts who,desguised as a Galbadian Soldier,distracted the other soldiers so that you could get the train to Balamb.And he even runs after it.
Do you think Watts is really stupid to do that things?
It was scenering.Good way to deceive Hyne.
10-07-2005, 06:24 PM
crazybayman

What country are you from?
10-07-2005, 06:35 PM
Winter Nights

Nothing you just said has anything to do with our questions, aside from Zone "acting" a stomach noise.. Which doesn't make any sense at all. A stomach grumbling isn't something that can be acted.

And Laguna isn't even an actor. He took a job in a movie to pay for food on his travels.
10-07-2005, 06:38 PM
Future Esthar

Kyros-It´s good that you don´t look like your father.
Squall was not supposed to look like Laguna,Autumn Rain.

Why are you asking Crazybayman?
10-07-2005, 06:44 PM
crazybayman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Why are you asking Crazybayman?

Just curious.
10-07-2005, 06:48 PM
Winter Nights

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Kyros-It´s good that you don´t look like your father.
Squall was not supposed to look like Laguna,Autumn Rain.

All well and good, except the Moombas recognize Squall as Laguna.

Kiros making such a statement just paints a picture of the type of friendship Kiros has with Laguna.
10-07-2005, 06:59 PM
Future Esthar

Well,whether a face looks like another is a subjective question.
But looking at their personality it´s easy to spot Z=L.

Many people say that the moomba licked Squall´s blood and call him "Laguna".
Another explanation to this is to say that Laguna sent the Moomba to help the characters scape.
10-07-2005, 07:08 PM
Winter Nights

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Well,whether a face looks like another is a subjective question.
But looking at their personality it´s easy to spot Z=L.

Many people say that the moomba licked Squall´s blood and call him "Laguna".
Another explanation to this is to say that Laguna sent the Moomba to help the characters scape.

A)Zone's personality isn't really shown, aside from him acting nervous and liking porn. Laguna is a bit of a loud mouth and a goofball. He does show nervousness in the game, but only around Julia. Zone acts nervous most of the time you are near him.

B)It is not implied anywhere in the game that the Moombas had ever licked Squall's OR Laguna's blood, so this theory is easily dismissed. The other theory is dismissed, because Squall and co. later have to find the President of Esthar (which turns out to be Laguna) to inform him of the situation and ask for help. Also, Laguna had no way of knowing that his son was amongst those were captured. There isn't even any implication that he even knew about it, to begin with. The implications of them being father and son do not come, until they actually meet. The Moobas recognizing Squall as Laguna, as well as Squall's thinking Laguna was himself during the first dream sequence ("I dreamt I was an idiot."), were meant as early hints, that later implications would confirm, that they were father and son.
10-07-2005, 07:21 PM
Future Esthar

The "blood licking" theory is not mine´s.
People had post it on the forums.

Yes,Laguna knows it through Zone.
Didn´t you read what I said about Watts helping them to scape to Balamb?
10-07-2005, 07:26 PM
crazybayman

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazybayman

What country are you from?

Like I said, just curious.
10-07-2005, 07:28 PM
Future Esthar

Well,let me go (important things to do.
10-07-2005, 07:42 PM
crazybayman

:confused:

:chuckle:

That's actually hilarious. :laugh:

I was just curious. I wonder why he wants to hide it. Seriously.
10-07-2005, 07:42 PM
Winter Nights

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Yes,Laguna knows it through Zone.
Didn´t you read what I said about Watts helping them to scape to Balamb?

It is never implied anywhere in the game that Laguna was involved with that or that he even knows Zone and Watts.
10-07-2005, 08:42 PM
Gilgamesh of Legends

Evidence, solid SCRIPTAL evidence, esthtar
10-08-2005, 09:58 AM
Christmas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

I was talking about teenagers Unknowns.
And I recognize Zone as Laguna.

If you can recognize Zone as Laguna from that monitor of yours, I dun see why Squall can't. Then if Squall and everyone recognize Zone as Laguna, then it is no secret.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Team work.Something which relates with his personality.

Care to explain how?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

The owls tears were founded by Zone and Watts.

What Owls Tears? Aren't Owl Tears those stuff that recover your HP?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

They are good actors.Don´t forget Laguna once made a film.

Ya, and we all know how "well" he act in that film, dun we? And just because you cast in a one and only film mean you are a good actor?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

You don´t realized this but it was Watts who,desguised as a Galbadian Soldier,distracted the other soldiers so that you could get the train to Balamb.And he even runs after it.
Do you think Watts is really stupid to do that things?
It was scenering.Good way to deceive Hyne.

Also Selphie and gang is even better in this case when they infilrate the missile base. aren't they?
With the helmet and armor on, anyone can look and act like a Galbadia Soldier well.

And pls dun avoid this question too:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Guy at the right of the train driver(Forest owls)
A young Shumi possessed by Kyros Seagil.
Objective-To help save Timber.

Kiros had dark skin, do this Shumi have dark skin since it take the form of Kiros.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Another explanation to this is to say that Laguna sent the Moomba to help the characters scape.

When did Laguna became the leader of the Moombas? It is Zell and CO that helped that Moomba in the prison and in return, they helped them.
01-10-2006, 07:46 PM
MJN SEIFER

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilgamesh of Legends

how are they shumi's HOW?!

Because Shumi's can evolove into other things.

It's OBVIOUS that Cid is a shumi and I thought of that long before I read this post.

Think about it.
01-10-2006, 08:01 PM
Leeza

This thread is too old to be revived.