Jack Thompson's Anti-Game Law

Jack Thompson, one of the biggest critics of the gaming industry, has been asked to write a law by Florida Governor Jeb Bush to ban the sale of M rated games to minors. According to Thompson, video games are literally "murder simulators" that are teaching our kids how to kill. He also says:

-that the original Doom was a major factor in the Columbine killings
-that multiple copycat killings across the US were inspired by the Grand Theft Auto series
-that the Entertainment Software Association (ESA), the US game industry lobby, is a "criminal organization" with a "thug" president
-that the Sims 2 is packed with easily accessible "full frontal nudity", basically with private organs

Don't believe me? Go to Gamespot and you'll see this on the front page as part of a Halo 3 rumors article.

First of all, I think insulting everyone who likes video games will make people hate you a lot (and possibly get you killed, if you happen to be in the wrong place).

Secondly, how the hell are all video games "murder simulators?" How does Tetris, Katamari Damacy, and Super Mario Bros. teach people how to kill?

Finally, saying that video games are the cause of all the world's problems proves that you are either an idiot or hate video games. People that kill are usually mental, and that is the main reason that people kill, not video games.

Post your thoughts on this topic.

Um, selling M rated games to minors is already not allowed? That's just silly, really. If they feel so strongly about it, why don't they punish the PARENTS for getting the games for the kids? :p

Even though I think Jack Thompson is a friggin moron and he really needs to pull his head out of his butt, I dont see anything wrong with M rated games being banned from minors. While I do think that parents need to take resposnibility, we all know that wont happen anytime soon, and maybe the ban of M rated games for minors will take away the scapegoat parents use.

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Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix

While I do think that parents need to take resposnibility, we all know that wont happen anytime soon, and maybe the ban of M rated games for minors will take away the scapegoat parents use.

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[img]http://home.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/heart.gif[/img] I think I love you.

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Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix

Even though I think Jack Thompson is a friggin moron and he really needs to pull his head out of his butt,

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:lol: Agreed.

Video games are just the latest "incarnation of satan" after rock n' roll, comic books and heavy metal. There have actually been studies done that show that people are no more prone to "bad" behavior after playing video games. Also, as video games have risen astronomically in popularity in the last 20 years, violent crimes, drug use and other "problems" of youth have decreased over the same time peoriod. (I got this from the latest issue of Game Informer but I can't find the article on their website.)

Then again seeing as this is a gaming board I doubt that we will disagree with each other much on the issue. ;)

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

Video games are just the latest "incarnation of satan" after rock n' roll, comic books and heavy metal. There have actually been studies done that show that people are no more prone to "bad" behavior after playing video games. Also, as video games have risen astronomically in popularity in the last 20 years, violent crimes, drug use and other "problems" of youth have decreased over the same time peoriod. (I got this from the latest issue of Game Informer but I can't find the article on their website.)

Then again seeing as this is a gaming board I doubt that we will disagree with each other much on the issue. ;)

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It sure doesn't seem like it. And thanks for the info from the article, which further proves Jack Thompson is a moron.

I heard he also has a 9 year old son... Boy do i feel sorry for that kid.

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Originally Posted by FFGuevara

I heard he also has a 9 year old son... Boy do i feel sorry for that kid.

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Someone breeded with him?!


Well this is probably a good idea, though yeah agreed Thompson should pull his head out of his butt. Hes a moron of the highest calibur. So I'm behind this decision but I still strongly dislike Jack Thompson. Its the parent's fault the minor's got their hands on these "murder simulations" since adults are the only ones who can buy them for them anyways.

Wait, is he trying to keep 17 year olds from buying M rated games, or does he not realize that they already have that rating?

I don't know about here in Cali (haven't went game shopping since I got back, and when I was younger I know the rating system wasn't something many if any stores really paid attention to), but in Oklahoma they won't sell minors M rated games anyway (yes, you have to be over eighteen and show an I.D. to purchase 17 and up games there :rolleyes2 ), so it's nothing new.

I personally think when your seventeen, hell sixteen, there's nothing you're going to play/see that's going to damage you anymore than you already are anyway, and it's not like you aren't already seeing worse things in the real world than any video game could show you by then. I personally think if a game says 17+, then it should be sold to you if you're just that, 17+...the problem is, there's alot of 17 year olds that don't have the means (like a drivers license) to prove their age, whereas most 18 year olds do (seeing as when you're 18 you can't really get by without it any longer), so I really don't see what harm raising it to 18+ is going to do. It'd shut alot (well a few anyway) of people up, and then the parents would HAVE to buy the games for their kids, so then when everyone wants to bitch and whine the parents can be the ones who get randown by the church mobs, aswell as parents not being able to say "Oh it's the game's fault and best buy's for selling it to my kid that my kid blew up his school!" because they'll have had to buy it for them.

So, dare I say it, but I actually think this would be more of a good thing. :|

It isnt a law, however. It's a voluntary deal between the ESRB and retailers. Most retailers comply (at least on paper), this measure would only make it an actual law as opposed to a voluntary measure.

And yeah, it's the same way here in California. I'm pretty sure it's nationwide.

-And damn you Rye, you got that song stuck in my head xD [img]http://home.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/heart.gif[/img]

*smacks forehead*

What a moron. It's one thing to criticise something you don't like, but quite another to do so without having even the slightest grasp of reality.

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Originally Posted by Elite Lord Sigma

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

Video games are just the latest "incarnation of satan" after rock n' roll, comic books and heavy metal. There have actually been studies done that show that people are no more prone to "bad" behavior after playing video games. Also, as video games have risen astronomically in popularity in the last 20 years, violent crimes, drug use and other "problems" of youth have decreased over the same time peoriod. (I got this from the latest issue of Game Informer but I can't find the article on their website.)

Then again seeing as this is a gaming board I doubt that we will disagree with each other much on the issue. ;)

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It sure doesn't seem like it. And thanks for the info from the article, which further proves Jack Thompson is a moron.

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There's this too, which is a pretty nifty little discourse on the matter.

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Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

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Originally Posted by Elite Lord Sigma

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Originally Posted by Flying Mullet

Video games are just the latest "incarnation of satan" after rock n' roll, comic books and heavy metal. There have actually been studies done that show that people are no more prone to "bad" behavior after playing video games. Also, as video games have risen astronomically in popularity in the last 20 years, violent crimes, drug use and other "problems" of youth have decreased over the same time peoriod. (I got this from the latest issue of Game Informer but I can't find the article on their website.)

Then again seeing as this is a gaming board I doubt that we will disagree with each other much on the issue. ;)

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It sure doesn't seem like it. And thanks for the info from the article, which further proves Jack Thompson is a moron.

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There's this too, which is a pretty nifty little discourse on the matter.

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Wonderful article. Anyone who thinks video games cause violence assumes TV tells the truth (which about 80% of time it doesn't), hasn't read that article, is ignorant, or is a total idiot.

And this is what I think of the media: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down:

Banning games from minors wouldn't do much of anything. Parents who allow their kids to play M rated games would just end up buying them at stores themselves. Parents who don't allow kids playing M rated games...would pretty much do the same thing they do now!

what kids are allowed to play should be up to the parents, but I think actually enforcing the game ratings system isn't a bad idea. for example having to show ID to get a game rated "M" is a good thing. It's something society deems bad for children, so put restrictions on who can get it, just like cigarettes and alcohol(don't even get me started on the age for this)... its all they can constitutionally do. If some kid shoots up his school after playing one of these games... then yeah you can blame the parents, caus either they bought it for him/her or they weren't responsible enough to monitor what their kid was being exposed to. I understand that it is hard for alot of parents to monitor what their children see and listen to, but they shouldn't complain to the government if their kids get ahold of something "obscene". Of course some kids are gonna get ahold of GTA, Doom, Counterstrike, etc. anyway, but banning M rated games is censorship plain and simple. Age-restrict the sale of it... don't ban it.

M rated games already arent allowed by minors. Its parents that give them the games, so its the parents that need to be advised.....

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Originally Posted by Elite Lord Sigma

Wonderful article. Anyone who thinks video games cause violence assumes TV tells the truth (which about 80% of time it doesn't), hasn't read your article, is ignorant, or is a total idiot.

And this is what I think of the media: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down: :down:

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Just to clarify, the article was not written by me. Nevertheless, I agree with your general opinion on the matter.

I have no real qualms against restricting the purchase of M-Rated games to minors, but as was said, the parents who buy them for them will probably continue to do so. I work at Target, which requires us to card people on M-Rated games (but, interestingly enough, not on CDs with explicit lyrics or DVDs). However, I've seen parents come through (I've also seen this happen at Gamecrazy where a friend of mine works) with their kids and buy the game, completely taking in the kid's description of why they need to buy it. That description, by the way, is usually some sort of permutation of "It's rated mature so they won't let me buy it without you."

So really, I would hope that this would just effectively remove the ability for irresponsible parents to just mindlessly blame the games.

This is kinda pointless, considering almost every store already does this, and also, being 18 doesn't always mean your smart enough to know not to blow things up, shoot people, and all that over stuff. Being under 18 also doesn't mean your immature enough to not know it's just a game. Parnets are gonna buy it anyway, and even when the parnets don't, they can just go find someone who will sell it to him, even though they're under age. I have quite a few people at my school at sell video games for quick cash (One used to do it right next to me, in the middle of class) and they can just get it from people like them. It's a hard thing to control, and if anyone is gonna try, it should be the parents, not the government.

If they think the child is mature (or at least smart enough) to know not to do what they see in a video game, then get it for them, if they don't think so, don't get it for them, and inforce it, as in, look at your child's video game collection from time to time, or check in when they're using the console. You can also make sure to talk to the parnets of the child's friends and tell them at they don't want them to play certain games, so that when they're over there, they won't be playing them.

Most people aren't mental enough to shoot people because they see it in a video game, and it'd be nice if Jack Thompson actually tried to do something useful, instead of competely ignoring all the facts that say at kids don't kill because of video games. There have been excellent articles to prove they don't, one was linked to in this thread.

It'd just be nice of people like this didn't worry about making their name known by causing a big something that doesn't NEED to be caused, because it's pointless and wastes peoples time. I mean, it's a good idea to keep certain games away from certain people, but it just shouldn't be done by the government.

I think we all agree on the rating and that M games shouldnt be for minors. However i feel this law actually helps the gaming industry in that theres no more room to say "its the game's fault". :P

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Originally Posted by lionx

I think we all agree on the rating and that M games shouldnt be for minors. However i feel this law actually helps the gaming industry in that theres no more room to say "its the game's fault". :P

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As though that will stop them from saying it anyway.

Well in case they do, lets prepare the pitchforks :3

No parent would buy an R18 movie or magazine for their children, so I'm constantly surprised - and dismayed - that so many utter morons buy restricted games for their children. Age restrictions are in place for bloody good reasons, yet people still act like interactive electronic entertainment is in some kind of class of its own.

In my country, games - and any other media - can be restricted based on their content. The restriction is legally binding, so it can be an offence to supply to an underage person. The system is largely effective, except for the aforementioned morons.

Plenty of games are "murder simulators" and reward the player for murdering the innocent for personal gain. These games should be restricted so they're out of the hands of the young and impressionable. Contrary to what some people would like us to believe, exposure to violent media can - and does - potentially have a significant impact on developing minds. People who're exposed to gratuitous, graphic depictions of murder, suffering and cruelty become desensitized to it and, in some cases, more prone to 'copycat' offending.

Restricting games in the same way as other publications isn't stupid, it's bloody common sense. Something harmless and inoffensive should, of course, avoid restriction; but potentially harmful material should be restricted as appropriate.

it's as simple as this...
http://gr.bolt.com/articles/violence/violence.htm

yep that pretty much says how much crap this whole violence and video games issue is, that is all....

THE JACKEL

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Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

There's this too, which is a pretty nifty little discourse on the matter.

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Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

it's as simple as this...
http://gr.bolt.com/articles/violence/violence.htm

yep that pretty much says how much crap this whole violence and video games issue is, that is all....

THE JACKAL

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Looks about the same.

WTF is wrong with people these days? It seems like people are getting more idiotic and absurd.

o: ebil! Anyway, I thought there was already some kinda law about kids not being able to buy games rated M or A. That is ebil. And besides, that makes no sense. What, in 2010, everybody will be having beams and fireballs coming out of their hands and everybody will be turning to super sayians and then Sin will come and wipe good ol blitzball out of the earth? That's crazy xD

I've done debates on the affects of video games (and other media) on children relating to increased violence for school before, and I've found that there are very few studies that can actually prove that there's a negative relationship. Most of the tests just get ambigious results.

This is bogus.

Jack Thompson just hates video games because somebody stole his Cloudsong on a game of Dark Age of Camelot and somebody made a recording of it online.

there's a disease or mental condition that people have, causing them to not be able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. that's the only problem i see in violent games: if kids or people with this condition plays these games like grand theft auto, then that might be a problem.

my cousin apparently has this type of condition, and he plays grand theft auto alot, which is my aunts fault. she KNOWS that he has this condition, yet she doesn't stop him from playing this. (my relatives are somewhat dysfunctional) a friend of my dad asked my cousin "what's so fun about these games?" and my cousin responded with "you get to kill people, it's a lot of fun!". yeahhh.... that's where i'd get freaked out and completely block out violent games for that kid.

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Originally Posted by Darth Holmes

Jack Thompson just hates video games because somebody stole his Cloudsong on a game of Dark Age of Camelot and somebody made a recording of it online.

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xD

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Originally Posted by Big D

No parent would buy an R18 movie or magazine for their children, so I'm constantly surprised - and dismayed - that so many utter morons buy restricted games for their children.

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Because videogames are made for kids, you silly. Just like all animated films are for kids!

Actually, my mother is a manager at our local Blockbuster. You'd be surprised how many parents rent or buy rated R movies for their children, namely horror movies. And I mean 8-10 year-olds, at that. It's sick. Most parents just don't smurfing care until their kid stabs another kid with their pencil.

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Originally Posted by Autumn Rain

Actually, my mother is a manager at our local Blockbuster. You'd be surprised how many parents rent or buy rated R movies for their children, namely horror movies. And I mean 8-10 year-olds, at that. It's sick. Most parents just don't smurfing care until their kid stabs another kid with their pencil.

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It's symptomatic of the whole "somebody else is responsible" culture. As you say, the parents are content not to care; but when their negligence finally has serious consequences, they want somebody else to be accountable. Very lame.

This kind of thing is exactly why schools in my country are actually gonna start teaching values again - trying to instill a basic sense of right and wrong.

As far as I have seen there is nothing in any video game that has ever existed that a ten year old cannot handle. There really doesn't need to be a rating system on video games, since the content in video games is harmless.

This isn't about video games being bad though, it's really about morons like this guy who want to get their 'bitch fix'. They overdramatize a situation to the point of absurdity, and argue their strong opinions on the matter. Why? Because it makes them feel good, it makes them feel right and just, and it quite possibly makes them feel better than others. These guys aren't on a moral crusade, they are just another link in the complain chain. Worthless, really.

This is kinda like the time when my schools english department had to stop teaching about a certain book because it contained sexual references and some parents complained. true story.

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Originally Posted by nik0tine

As far as I have seen there is nothing in any video game that has ever existed that a ten year old cannot handle. There really doesn't need to be a rating system on video games, since the content in video games is harmless.

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Graphic depictions of violence, cruelty, sexuality. All potentially harmful/infleuntial on a developing mind. With games, there's an added factor: the fact that the player has control of what occurs, and can actively make said events take place on screen.

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Graphic depictions of violence, cruelty, sexuality. All potentially harmful/infleuntial on a developing mind

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I disagree. Although these things are in video games, I have never seen a game where any of it had reached even a mild form of intensity. Yeah, GTA is violent, but it isn't so violent and brutal that it scars the mind.

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With games, there's an added factor: the fact that the player has control of what occurs, and can actively make said events take place on screen.

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This is true, but I still don't think it is a big deal since they can only make mild forms of immorality occur.

I disagree too:D

Games that permit a player to cause violent death to others, or even seeing it around them, could easily have an effect. Even with slightly dated graphics systems - like the PS1 - it's clear what's happening. Graphicness can exist without realism; I'm sure few sensible parents would let their children watch South Park or Happy Tree Friends without expecting bad consequences...

I don't know what Happy Tree Friends is, but the worst that could come out of kids watching southpark is a foul mouth.

Aside from the low levels of intensity in video games, another thing that kind of waters down the 'damage factor' (please pardon my word choice, it's almost 5:00 am and I can't think of any more intelligent ways to word this :p) is that video games aren't real. Everyone who plays video games knows this (at least, I hope so) and when you are commiting acts of violence against something that you know is not real it isn't really going to leave a lasting impression. Killing a living, breathing human being is one thing, killing a mass of pixels is another.

Even live-action movies aren't real, as the violence is simulated...

In Syphon Filter, it's possible to kill opponents by electrocution with a ridiculously powerful taser. Sure it's justified by the fact that they're nasty militants trying to unleash biological weapons, but watching a "mass of pixels" shudder, scream, smoulder and finally burst into flames was bad enough when I was 16. You eventually get de-sensitized to that kind of thing, so the effect is diminished, but it'd be worse for a younger mind.

[As for Happy Tree Friends... it's an animated series about a bunch of cute fluffly animal pals who keep on having accidents that result in brutal, agonizing death. It's all done with super-deformed 2D animation, but trust me - if a child saw this, it would mess them up something crazy. If you ever have the opportunity, watch an episode and see what I mean:p]

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Even live-action movies aren't real, as the violence is simulated...

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And I don't think that most live action movies will leave a lasting impression in the mind of a child, unless it is just insanely brutal and over the top.

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In Syphon Filter, it's possible to kill opponents by electrocution with a ridiculously powerful taser. Sure it's justified by the fact that they're nasty militants trying to unleash biological weapons, but watching a "mass of pixels" shudder, scream, smoulder and finally burst into flames was bad enough when I was 16. You eventually get de-sensitized to that kind of thing, so the effect is diminished, but it'd be worse for a younger mind.

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I remember that game. How could I forget that taser? :p I was about ten or 11 when I played that game and used that taser. I'll admit that it was pretty brutal, but not to the point where it would scar my mind. Fighting Anton Girdeaux (sp?) in the first Syphon Filter was also fairly brutal but I do not believe that it has the power to actually leave a lasting impression in anyones mind.

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[As for Happy Tree Friends... it's an animated series about a bunch of cute fluffly animal pals who keep on having accidents that result in brutal, agonizing death. It's all done with super-deformed 2D animation, but trust me - if a child saw this, it would mess them up something crazy. If you ever have the opportunity, watch an episode and see what I mean:p]

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haha, that actually sounds like it could be a half amusing show. :p

Personally, I don't have a problem with the law, but I do have a problem with how much of an idiot Jack Thompson is when it comes to this issue. :mad:

My thoughts are...you just used a number of logical fallacies in your post.

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Originally Posted by Elite Lord Sigma

Secondly, how the hell are all video games "murder simulators?" How does Tetris, Katamari Damacy, and Super Mario Bros. teach people how to kill?

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Fallacy of the unrepresentitive sample.

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Finally, saying that video games are the cause of all the world's problems proves that you are either an idiot or hate video games.

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Ad hominem.

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Post your thoughts on this topic.

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Anyway, I think that Thompson is not well informed and over-sensational about video games that contain any sort of violence in general. Banning all M rated video games from minors may be far too hasty of a solution.

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Originally Posted by Elite Lord Sigma

Jack Thompson, one of the biggest critics of the gaming industry, has been asked to write a law by Florida Governor Jeb Bush to ban the sale of M rated games to minors. According to Thompson, video games are literally "murder simulators" that are teaching our kids how to kill. He also says:

-that the original Doom was a major factor in the Columbine killings
-that multiple copycat killings across the US were inspired by the Grand Theft Auto series
-that the Entertainment Software Association (ESA), the US game industry lobby, is a "criminal organization" with a "thug" president
-that the Sims 2 is packed with easily accessible "full frontal nudity", basically with private organs

Don't believe me? Go to Gamespot and you'll see this on the front page as part of a Halo 3 rumors article.

First of all, I think insulting everyone who likes video games will make people hate you a lot (and possibly get you killed, if you happen to be in the wrong place).

Secondly, how the hell are all video games "murder simulators?" How does Tetris, Katamari Damacy, and Super Mario Bros. teach people how to kill?

Finally, saying that video games are the cause of all the world's problems proves that you are either an idiot or hate video games. People that kill are usually mental, and that is the main reason that people kill, not video games.

Post your thoughts on this topic.

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I agree with you. Except for the mario bros things. Swinging people around from a limb and throwing them at bombs or pointy objects may be considered attempted homicide.