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Hi guys, I'm back! Just took a break to attempt to beat Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance. I just started playing FFXI again and I was wondering, Is buying FF gil a smart thing to do? Apparently GM are starting to take action against gill sellers and buyers. I have never bought gil before but do you think its worth 10mil gil with the risk of suspention or is it just worth being really poor. I saw the ad on your homepage and I thought about it? Can someone tell me what to do?
Thanks
bad idea. You would be critisized, etc. It's better to be poor. It;s better to do things on your own.
If you think you'll get away with it go for it. Unless you dont want to take the dum bitching from people.
There are plenty of other ways to get gil. >_>
Gilsellers are a great annoyance. Supporting them by buying gil from them results in a backlash from the majority of the FFXI community should others find out. Like Straw said, there's plenty of other ways to make money.
Seems a lot of end-game users buy gil. *shrug* I don't really think it'd be worth it, and you are helping out the gilsellers, which for the most part are complete assholes.
No, not really, most gilsellers are actually really nice people, they're just tired of being labeled as "chinese gilsellers" "japanese gilsellers" etc, you treat them nice, they will treat you nice as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omecle
Yes, they do MPK on HNM's such as Serket, however thats part of the game, almost everyone will do it, you just need to plan ahead and bring extra people to take care of the undead-low-hp-aggro-mobs.
Shouldn't label people as "assholes" unless you truely know them, dont judge a book by its cover just because they're doing a job you perhaps are jealous of. Playing a game and earning money? {Yes, Please}
As for the topic itself, I'm not afraid to admit I've boughten gil, I wanted to play the game, and not spend days doing stuff I've done in the past, I came back expecting to have fun, not repeat the same old farming I've done countless times already, and there is really nothing wrong with that.
However, if it is your first time playing, I would frown on gilbuying simply because its like using a gameshark for RPG's.
Gilsellers make the economy go bye-bye by devaluing gil. It makes the game harder to play when you're starting up. For that alone I think they're assholes.
Apparently they're paid below minimum wage. Sucks to be them.Quote:
Playing a game and earning money? {Yes, Please}
Gilsellers/Gilbuyers are not only factors that devalue gil, naturally inflation makes gil worth a little less than it is yesterday and pointing it at a scapegoat isnt going to work. Everyone is responsible, me, you, everyone that uses the AH has some kind of dirtyness in it. Gilselling is but only one factor of this. Gilsellers DO NOT MAKE GIL OUT OF THIN AIR, they are gotten by legitimate means within the game with no hacking, therefore gilsellers actually could archive the gil until it is bought. Also if they keep putting in items to the AH, as long as its not a monopolization, they will keep prices DOWN because theres always supply to mea the demand. Gilsellers arent exempt from economic rules in the game and i see they are people too, some nice, some asses.
To me, companies that sell gil are just selling pieces of data to you, not necessarily that even, they can sell the time they are sending that gil to you. If i was the head company, and people would actually pay to get virtual money, i would exploit it and think of the money i can gain. By operating in third world countries or economically less stable countries, they can easily do so with minimal loss for the uneducated and finanally unstable people with minimal training.
Basically to me:
Gilbuyers: Started the gilselling and put a real world value on virtual money and have the means to purchase it whether it be the virutal money itself or the time spent to deliver it.
Gilsellers: Low income families struggling to get more money and working hard and dont see this as a game, but as work, get paid under minimal wage. The head people of the companies see this as a buisness because as long as there is demand, they will keep getting virtual money. Or people that want money out of an MMORPG before quitting.
Whether or not you want to buy is your choice, your decision, i wont look down on you either way because its your money and your gaming experience (for that area only). But to say gilsellers are the sole reason for the economy it is today is just stupidity. I personally wont buy it, however alot of people do look down on gilbuying. Its a pretty gray area, especially with some companies like Sony Online Entertainment selling their own virtual money as well.
Well, RMT isn't supported by SE's terms of service, so it's in the wrong whether it screws the economy or not.
Well not saying in defense of RMT, but you do know you only pay for the transfer of gil, and no one can really ban anyone that transfer gil since its about gil selling, not selling your time for using a free service.
If you buy gill you are very sad
Very sad
Very sad
I wish you jailtime!
Haha, whatever. :rolleyes2Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
They do not "inflate" the prices of items, if one item raises in price, all other items will as well.
Starting off, farm fire crystals if you start in San d'oria - theres 6-8k a stack on midgardsormr, that already is more then enough for a just starting off character. Items such as O- Kote aren't meant for every mnk/nin/sam to have, they're luxury items, can't handle the price then dont buy it. People need to stop complaining about prices and learn how to earn it, there is several ways to get gil, all the time people complain about gilsellers "raising" prices, they could be farming, crafting, anything.
I agree with what lionx said, however, they dont always get less then minimal wage, it depends on what "section" they're in, low ranked gilsellers, for example: 4 people who camp nm's in Sea serpent grotto all day, mainly siren hair from Novv the whitehearted, etc, those people probably get less then minimal wage, however, higher tier gilsellers, god killers, sky campers, the more "advanced" HNM's, etc, get alot more because they get more millions of gil.
People judge gilsellers because they want to fit in, people are too afraid to agree with people who think they aren't bad, I'm not saying they're all good, but most of them are, for example, Rage linkshell, they're nice people, but they use a bot program so they know when the HNM/NM will spawn before average players do.
Bottom line is, gilsellers dont inflate the prices, the community does, they can put an item on AH for 4million gil, but they're not forcing anyone to buy it.
WEll each site differs with prices. There are adds on this site that advertises gil sellers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valacion
I say earn it yourself and save your extra money man.
Most gil sellers are con artist its just dishonest to sell one currency for another make-believe or real.
Like converting US to Euros. You can goto an official place to do that,and then you have those dishonest businessmen who say "hey why not give me 20 dollars and you get 5 Euros."
Anyway its all up to you in the end. I mean you can do it, but you'lll end up spending it unless your like me and you just spend whenever you have to.
Also you shouldn't worry about inflation that much its deflation thats gonna hurt you lol it happened on pandy for about a week kinda sucked hard to get gil and hard to get stuff.SAme with inflation when it goes to the extreme. There should be a good balance but its kinda tough to find that so inflation happens. Gil sellers really dont inflate the prices gil sellers kkinda help the users out while making a penny for themselves.
SE doesn't like it because SE isn't getting any of that money and they want players to work harder for the gil thus playing longer thus SE making more money.
SAying htis theres nothing wrong iwth SE speaking out against it. SE has to make money to stay alive. And Gil Sellers are kinda "Stealing " SE money. BEcause players are working less harder to earn gil and working more on improving there players and going throught he levels faster.
What slows you down from getting to lvl 75 is the fact that you spend a lot of time earning gil.
It's cheating. And cheaters suck.
Its not really cheating, its being able to afford something and spending money on it, cheating would be hacking, such as making a program and going invincible. Gilsellers get the gil legitly, and you're paying real cash for it.
Uh, it's against the rules, therefore it's cheating.
but its not against the rules because its cheating. Its against the rules because SE loses money from private companies selling video game currency for real cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
What? That makes no sense whatsoever.
If you're playing monopoly and you make a deal with the banker to give you 500 monopoly money for 5 bucks, you wouldn't consider that cheating? It's against the rules because it's an unfair advantage and even besides all that, the fact that it's AGAINST THE RULES makes it cheating.
I honestly don't know how anyone can advocate buying gil. I work for my gil. I earned enough seed gil through farming crystals in order to invest in something that will return more gil to me. I invest time, energy and capital in order to make my gil. And anyone who says that they don't have time to do this is being lazy.
It takes me 1 hour to make 100,000 consistently and 250,000 when the market fluctuates to my advantage.
Earning a living in FFXI is part of the game. It's part of the challenge. And while gil buying and selling isn't the ONLY reason for the devaluing of gil, you can bet that it's a major factor.
Playing a board game for a few hours is alot different then spending months on an MMORPG. Like said above, its against the ToS because they lose money, not because its cheating. The gil is earned fairly, its no different from a friend giving you gil, or items if he/she is quiting, are you considering that cheating as well? It would indeed propose an "unfair" advantage, so from your theory, giving items to friends is considered cheating.
You can choose to earn your gil fairly, like I mentioned above, it should be done "normally" the first time through the game, but in my situation, having played since it was first released in usa on PC, I have quit several times, and each time I've started from scratch.
Also, as I mentioned before, gilbuying and selling has nothing to do with inflation of prices, what changes the prices is what people pay for items, Supply and Demand.
But back to gilbuying being cheating, how exactly do you feel its cheating? Are you so sure of yourself that you're not over using the phrase cheating, or perhaps do you mean "not right, frowned upon"?
To say that gil buying and selling has nothing to do with current ingame inflation pretty much negates your whole arguement to me.
Also, the definition of cheating is to break or violate the rules of the game. This is the part that I don't think you're understanding. Giving friends gil isn't cheating because that's not against the rules. There are no ifs ands or buts about it. It's gaining personal advantage by deliberately going against the rules of the game, therefore it's cheating. The fact that you're arguing that gil buying is NOT cheating is almost mind-boggling.
To say that gil buying/selling is not cheating but just "frowned upon" is like saying that selling cocaine isn't illegal but merely frowned upon. No. That's not the way it works. You buy gil, you're breaking the rules, you're cheating.
If you want to do that, then fine go ahead and do it. Buy your gil, buy mithra prostitutes, I don't care. But don't act as though what you're doing is completely legit. It's not.
Again, you're not giving legit examples, comparing drugs to ingame currency isn't exactly related. So you're saying if I buy gil, gaining gil from an unfair advantage, it is _not_ the same as gaining gil from a friend, that another person might be jealous of, having him/her having an unfair advantage at gear? Let me ask you something, can you give someone money in monopoly? No, and if you did, the other players would be at an unfair advantage because you're gaining something they're not.
You're simply trying to negate all my points and theorys instead of giving me legit reasons as to why you believe the things you do, which isn't really nice, thats more like flaming.
Let me ask you another thing, what level are you? If you're another non-sky character who doesn't understand the full definition of gods, HNMS, point systems for linkshells, I would not expect you to understand my reasons for buying gil and/or considering it not cheating.
Anyhow, as you wish, if this is just going to lead to a flame war I won't reply, and you can "win".
If you have to buy gil to succeed in this game try this.
/logout > cancel content ID > uninstall
no matter how many excuses you throw around buying gil is against the ToS.
If you cant make money in game without buying it this is not the game for you.
P.S. if you need to use a gameshark, buy gil,use cheat codes, etc to play a game you are just a loser who appearently cant do anything without it being dumbed down for you
and I suggest you read this entire thread before throwing a tantrum like a little kid.
No one is throwing a tantrum Khaotic. We simply disagree with you.
Miriel, he didn't read this thread, I have given a very good "excuse" to buy gil, I played fairly the first 3 times, this time I wanted to play the game for the 4th time without hassleing over farming, and there is nothing wrong with that at all, you have never been in my position, so you really dont have much say in it, or would understand how I feel about it. I have already said, you should play fairly the first time through, but that is not in my case. Its like replaying a game, but to have fun with it, are you telling me you have NEVER used a gameshark only to have fun? You buy a game, you might as well take full advantage of it and have as much fun as possible, there is nothing wrong with beating a game once and then playing it again a different method, by entering cheats, or buying gil to save months of wasting time and play the game with friends.
I also like how you completely ignored my post and "ganged" on me with what he said so you gain the upper hand, with that said, I'm not replying here anymore.
It's funny how you are being so defensive about everything, and making assumptions that we know nothing at all. =\
Funny thing is just because he hasn't posted til now doesn't mean he hasn't read it. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
Actually Omecle and Miriel he was really rude about what he thought of people who use cheats and buy gil.The P.S. part mainly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hori
No one was claiming that he wasn't being blunt and rude. =/
Replying because strawberry man doesn't understand what I was saying(no offense)
I said he didn't read because he was accusing me of being "dumbed down" and "needing to buy gil" when I have infact played ffxi 3 times "fairly", meaning, I have farmed for hours per day, I have done all of that stuff that every person has done. So to say the stuff he did, even though I've already mentioned this, he did not read what I said, thus thats why I said "he didn't read it", because if he did, then I'm sorry but he has a problem with either understanding what he reads, or he's just a child who goes around flaming random people even though he doesn't understand whats going on.
As for the gameshark comment, I fail to understand why you can't read things before commenting, I said, AFTER you beat the game, there is nothing wrong with starting a new game and to laugh at bosses, to own bosses that you had troubles with, to explore glitches, and more importantly just have fun since you know you've beaten it fairly, why not have some fun now. Does that not make sense to you?
There, I even bolded/underlined the important things for your convience.
Edit: To all his own, we all have our own opinions on things, so I apologize for debating about this topic and stirring things up.
Khaotic, we're not incompetant. We understand fully about the issues with gilsellers and gilbuyers, and it's not a clear cut answer.
So, because you played three times, it justifies buying gil in end-game? And I don't believe for a second that you had made it through end-game with your other characters. (I am going by what you have told me in the past, though)Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
In conclusion, just because you think you've found a way to justify why you buy gil, doesn't make it right for everyone else to buy gil. Especially when you have people who don't know a thing about their job in end-game.
I'm not saying all are like this, but I've come across a fair few who have no idea because a) they've bought gil and raced to the end or b) they just bought a high level character.
As far as I'm concerned. I paid for the game, and I pay the monthly fee. I deserve a right to have a legit opinion on gil sellers and buyers, and I deserve the right not to deal with idiots who camp things all day long for their job. It's a game. (And before you go saying anything, no I'd hate to have that kind of job)
---
Do what you will with your money, it doesn't really bother me that much I'm just trying to add to a touchy debate.
Take what you will of my words.
I'm sorry, but, I dont see why you continue to debate about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
Okay, so now you've said what you wanted, you're going to totally dismiss everything anyone else said? Also, who's to say that someone else might come along and join in?
You don't own this thread, so stop trying to control it. =\
snap.
Control something? I was trying to end the pointless childish debating over something so stupid,I even apologized saying we each have our own opinions, meaning you and I are both correct in our own ways, but if you'd rather continue and possibly make enemies, so be it.
You think I haven't had 2 level 74's? Ask Karenbu on midgardsormr about Sakurai, theres your proof right there. Not only was my BRD level 65(4k tnl) but It was going to 75 with Karenbu, who is my HNMLS leader. You say you doubt I haven't been through end-game activites? What proof do you have exactly? If I remember correctly you're a level 66 pld with no sky access, and you try to correct, or accuse me of lying? You are a pure minimal of HNMLS, if you got one, they would be desperate for a PLD, which isn't always a case, PLD should be 70+ for any major HNM, unless of course you like kissing the floor, not to mention you're taru, and I highly doubt you have good +hp gear to make up for your racial loss, your jelly ring is minimal to bomb queen, etc.
Now, you must be like everyone else who doesn't read correctly, because I never once said buying gil is good, at all times, I said, playing the first time through should be legit, not buying. Anyone will have knowledge of all jobs by the time they come around again, so your arguement and points are nulled.
Yes, you pay, yes you have your own opinions, but you have no say in what other people do, if they camp something thats their lives, not yours.
Dont act like you know endgame stuff, you're talking about "knowing high level endgame people who dont know their jobs" when you, yourself, aren't endgame. Leeching off Linkshell members or watching them kill an HNM doesn't count, when you kite Kirin, Tiamat, Vrtra, one of those, come talk to me about endgame activities, reading about it on a forum doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.
See what you had to start? and to think I nearly nominated you as coolest male.
No I was trying to keep an open discussion and I'm sorry if it seemed as a personally attack, I really am. I do not want to make enemies, I just wanted to grow my opinion further.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
I'd just like to clear up that I never once said I knew end-game like the back of my hand or experienced it. I'm basing all my opinions on what my friends have been through, and they have been through a lot. (I'm apart of a largish post-HNM linkshell)Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
As flawed as it may sound, I can still make up some sort of conclusion in what I know. (Not the best, but I still can)
I guess so, but I didn't think I was paying so that other people can make a living off of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
I did read it correctly. And I don't see why you couldn't make the gil from your high leveled characters? That would make the challenge a lot easier and more rewarding, yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
Also, please note that I'm not trying to have a personal attack against you, I was trying to make it more generlised -- meaning that not everyone who buys gil has made it through the game even once or twice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
Seriously, as I've said in other threads, don't take everything I say personally, I'm just trying to grow my opinions by provoking debates. If I am stiring too much sh*t up, just tell me to stop, please. But I don't see any other way to get others opinions as there's so many with Hori's point of view (as you may have noticed throughout the community).Quote:
Originally Posted by Omecle
I was ending the debate by apologizing, it is not my fault you couldn't realize that.
Right, I highly doubt thats "not trying to cause fights, just trying to provoke the debate", thats just simply being an ass, especially the last comment. That would also be a personal attack, which you claim you're not trying to do.Quote:
Okay, so now you've said what you wanted, you're going to totally dismiss everything anyone else said? Also, who's to say that someone else might come along and join in?
You don't own this thread, so stop trying to control it. =\
About my past characters, and what "i've told you, in the past" apparently you didn't listen much, because I told you my past characters were on Shiva server, so how exactly could I get gil from them?
Who says you're paying for them to make a living? There is multiple ways to make gil, not just camping an nm. Something I realize people fail to do is talk to the gilsellers instead of going all ape on them. "/tell Gilsellersname {Can you speak english?} ^^" is that so hard? You're also not paying so people can make a living off anything, you're paying so you can play on SE's servers, and you know that quite well. Gilsellers have NOTHING to do with what you pay each month, so stop using that as an excuse.
Sorry I am not in a good mood for these last few days, but I seriously don't mean it to be. And I'm not trying to personally attack, I was saying I'd rather leave it open for discussion rather than just have you shut it down because you don't want to discuss it further (others might).Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
I don't remember you telling me they were on the Shiva server, to be honest. Slipped my mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
Everyone that pays to play this game is helping to keep the servers up. If no one paid, then would the gilsellers have a job there still? I know you're thinking "If I don't play it's not going to make a difference", but if you think of it on a larger scale with other people who think this way, it could make a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
And I'm not saying I go "all ape on them", I've actually been nice to a fair few, but I have also run in with a fair few that are just plain mean.
I was actually, since you got me with some points, trying to be more reasonable and shaping my opinions. Didn't mean to be an ass about it. But now you're just trying to sink anything I say. =\
Just as a side note: Do you think it'd be easier if SE just made up a more legit store where you could buy gil? Or what do you think the consiquences would be?
I apologize again, Vaprice is the reason I started "flaming" if you wish to call it. I wasn't trying to end the thread, either, I was ending my opinions on it, and by you saying "you, you, you" in all your posts, I was letting you know I was out of the thread, and therefore I didn't want all these "you's" in it, targeting me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaprice
Doesn't matter if they have a job or not, its your choice to let them interfere with your game play, not theirs. I will tell you from experience that not all gilsellers are bad, and they're not greedy, infact, I've been given free items from a group of gillsellers, they also helped me get my wyvern skull from hurricane wyverns for my opo-opo crown, I fail to see how they're so bad just because they chose to sell their fairly earned gil. That, will always be my opinions on gilsellers, it wont change no matter what facts and theorys people create, they may be different on different servers, but from the ones on midgard, they're not doing anything harmful, except for Rage linkshell simply because they use a bot giving other players an unfair advantage. MPKing is part of the game, its competition, and quite frankly its fun whether people admit that or not, it stirs the moment up.
About your "sidenote", THAT would cause problems, for reasons we've both discussed, there would have to be some sort of limit, like atleast 1 job level 75, etc.
Understood, sorry I didn't mean to personally attack you. Just came out wrong I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
I have met nice gilsellers too, and bad. But also nice gilbuyers and extremely bad ones. I guess it depends where you look.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
Yeah, sorry I don't want to change someones opinion if they feel strongly about something. Just thought I could get more insight on things. And anyone who bots, whether gilsellers or not, are in my bad books anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
I was once told MPK'ing was not around prior to EN release. The reason GM's call it 'part of the game' not is because they can't do anything about it. As people can sue for anything, especially wrongful banning. But that's just what I've read around, take it as you will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaotic
How does my statement make no sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
Just wondering?
IF you had a multimullion dollar corporation adn you invested on a MMORPG and you pay the expenses withthe cash people make and a few pirates(gil sellers) Are selling gil to players and the players are putting SE's profits into people taking advantage of Your MMORPG that your running and trying to make cash off of it? YOu lose millions literally. So to combat this you make it against the rules.
It isn't about cheating at all. Sure you can be a little 8 year old and say that its cheating. I mean gil sellers are wrong for what they do. Hell SE doesn't even get 5% of what a gil seller makes by selling their video game currency.
Gil Sellers aren't selling their property they are selling SE's property which is hella illegal but there aren't any clear laws on limiting gil sellers because gil sellers are making a profit off of selling gil. So for SE and other companies that invest in MMORPGs they make it against the rules and hire a staff able to find and exploit the gil sellers. This way they won't lose money. It makes business sense to me. SE has to make a profit. It cost so much to run the server pay their staff and employees and have a profit. Anyway rather its cheating or not. Its up to the individual player. I can tell you this. Gil sellers are selling a currency. So its a dishonest business. Selling any kind of currency make believe or real is dishonest. Buyers perpetuate this. So SE cracks down on players who buy gil from these gil sellers.
It doesn't make sense because the fact that it's against the rules is exactly why it's cheating. If the ToS allowed you to buy gil, then it wouldn't be cheating. Since it's expressly forbidden to do such a thing, it is cheating.
It's not hard to understand.
I don't care if you buy gil, I don't care who you buy it from, I don't care how much you buy and for what cost. But it's still cheating! If you're cheating, why not just say, "hey, yeah, I'm cheating cause it's just easier this way" instead of, "hey, I buy gil but it's not cheating, it's just doing something against the rules to make things easier for myself, but it's not cheating." Sheesh, just own up to it.
Nope, gilsellling actually keeps some people playing. Where some people are so confused as to not being able to make gil those that sell them gil keeps people playing. Like Khaotic who made different chars, some people wouldnt if they had to farm ALL of it back legitly, so buying gil keeps them in the game.Quote:
IF you had a multimullion dollar corporation adn you invested on a MMORPG and you pay the expenses withthe cash people make and a few pirates(gil sellers) Are selling gil to players and the players are putting SE's profits into people taking advantage of Your MMORPG that your running and trying to make cash off of it? YOu lose millions literally. So to combat this you make it against the rules.
Currently it is still in the gray area, some court rulings are in favor of the player buying gil saying its THEIR data, not the game companies. Some do not even recognize it as a legit case, and some are in favor of game companies. Its one thing to say real currency, but its not, its just data, and no one really has too much legal ownership to that (at least thats what some courts are thinking of).
How are people getting around this? You are paying for their time to send you the gil, not the farming or anything, just the time and nothing is saying its illegal. IGE is the middleman, some people farm it up, sell it to IGE(ie: IGE pays for their transfer time), and they do the same to you.
I'm jsut explaining why its against the rules because SE loses players and gil sellers are seling property of SE a creation of SE and exploiting for cash. Its really dishonest to sell gil manQuote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
Thats like some ugy in a alley trying to sell you 500,000 Lira for 400 USD.