What do you think the publics reaction would be If they made the main relationship in an upcoming Final Fantasy a homosexual one?
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What do you think the publics reaction would be If they made the main relationship in an upcoming Final Fantasy a homosexual one?
Wow, the whole Idea of that never came to me. I really don't knwo.
Dont joke like that. Overall I think square would go bankrupt agian and have to be saved by another company.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Merchant
Japan wouldn’t care either way (hell, it might sell more...) but I think the rest of the world would probably have a problem with it if it wasn’t two girls. People being prejudice idiots and all…
I am not a prejudiced idiot I just dont like having to think about two guys doing it from the back and OH GOD:barf:
I wasn't actually referring to you directly, I was talking about people in general. It probably would have been a good idea to leave out the 'puking smiley' though, because there may be people here who might take offence.
I don't think there'll be any outcries or anything. It just won't sell well. I like a good love story. But homosexual relationships are a little too alien to me. I can't relate at all. Its nice to be able to actually understand the characters. But then I guess I"m being discriminatory
I would even feel alienated
I would buy it. I would applaud Square for breaking a taboo that is even stronger in the game industry than the movie one. Then I would judge the game based purely on its merits, and not on the fact it had gay love.
I'd refuse to buy it, you know why? Because it would get so much damn support in this country and be called an amazing game, possibly the best one ever, got nominated for all these awards, even if it were crap.
I mean, there was this thing with brokeback mountain, where someone reviewed the movie and said the actors were amazing, and played their part well, but he thought the movie was crap. He was immediately called homophobic and the GSA, or one of those organizations wanted him fired immediately. I can deal with homosexuality, but it's not the norm, so stop shoving it in my face.... that's all I have to say.
THE JACKEL
I agree, just sickening to think 'bout some [leeza]*snip*[/leeza] like that:irked:Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Penalty
[leeza]Do NOT go around the filters and it wouldn't hurt to have some tolerance as well. ~ Leeza[/leeza]
FFVIII fans accepted SquallxSeifer pretty well. *runz*Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Merchant
Well, It'll affect sales, there will probably be an outcry, but I dont think it'll be a massive uproar, as I have never heard of a game in the past that has homosexuality, I know theres a game with Lesbian characters ( forget its name ). It depends on how far they take it, if there is a male to male kiss, I'd say it would be an uproar.
I think it will affect sales IMO, thats why they wont do it.
This is the second "stop shoving it in my face" post you've made, so now I have to say something and drag both of us into a whole ....thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
I get people all the time who tell me they could care less if I'm gay, as long as I don't "flaunt it". Then they hold hands with their girlfriends, or talk about their marriage, or in some cases comment every other second on someone's "rack" or how hot Angelina Jolie is.
So every day I get heterosexuality smeared all over my eyes and ears and nobody notices the irony when I make one mention of how a guy looks and they go "OH MY GOD YOU'RE GAY WE GET IT STOP BRINGING IT UP ALL THE TIME".
So if a gay relationship was in a Final Fantasy game, that would be shoving it in your face, but every other Final Fantasy relationship isn't shoving it into mine?
That being said, I believe there WILL be a time when a game like this can exist without any question of controversy. It won't be anytime soon, but in a few thousand years if we're all still around this won't be an issue anymore.
THAT being said, I understand why you feel this way. When a gay person walks in with hair so gelled it could cut you going "TOOT TOOT LET'S GO HONEYZ GET THIS THANG GOIN' SISTA QUEENIE DRAG STYLE MMMMHMMM!!" I also want to throw up. But when that happens, I smack the person and tell them their gay membership has been revoked because I'm embarrassed to allow them in the family... Just like I did with Michael Jackson. So don't let the flamers confuse you, they are more of an exception then what you think. When I assassinate the Fab Five a lot of this issue will be cleared up.
As for Brokeback Mountain, I'm glad that it exists and Ledger and Gylanhaal have no problem dancing the fairy hanky panky, but it shouldn't have been as big a deal as it was. If it's EVER going to be considered normal and equal, then every time a gay-related product is put out it needs to stop being a monumental event. I'm gay every single day and nobody gave me any damn Golden Globe for it. :mad2: But you have to understand it's such a big deal because it IS such a big deal right now. I can't even hold hands with another guy on the street without 40 thousand things being said to me by everyone, and I have to pretend I'm straight in certain parts of the city because I'd rather not think what would happen otherwise. So when something tasteful that breaks stereotypes comes along it's a rather large step forward. So when all that ridiculous bull has stopped then so will the "OOooh it's GAY give it an AWARD!"
Also, on the topic of not being able to relate, I can understand this simply because you never see it. I can relate to any straight love story in a movie or game or whatnot because I've been exposed to it repeatedly my entire life, so I'm USED to being empathetic for a couple that would certainly never include me. So if they never make games with homosexual couples, then no, no one will ever be able to relate to it unless you are.
Anywho, that was a rather long rant, I know. Just know I don't go to parades or protests or write angry letters, I'm not that kind of person at all. I just wanted to try and make my point of view a little clearer. I wasn't trying to like, ATTACK you, or anything. But it's funny that I have to justify defending myself at all, as me posting this will once again get eye rolls and a "Ah geez another one of THESE" kind of reaction, even though everyone else can make pukey faces and talk about how it would bankrupt Square.
Ah, the opposing opinion...The cause of all humanity's problems. Not to worry, soon Wal-Mart will take over the world and tell us all what to think, then we won't have debates like this anymore.
Media that features yaoi (guy on guy) style relationships are pretty common in japan, so yah they wouldnt have a problem with it. Internationally, the reception would be mixed, and here in america it would bomb pretty bad.
Myself being a run of the mill heterosexual would balk at the idea as well. I try to be openminded but even mild hints at those sorts of relationships give me the heebie jeebies.
my point was how Brokeback mountain was hyped up and put way too much into the media, solely because of the gay relationship. I have no problem with the movie existing, nor would I have a problem with a gay relationship in a game, and if the game were good, I would get it. It's just that I feel if they put a gay relationship in an FF game, it would be pushed as a must have game and if you don't have it, you're homophobic, just like it was pushed that you must see Brokeback Mountain, or you are homophobic. I have no problem with the existence of these things, it's the fact that the media pushes it to try and make people more accepting. I accept it, I know gay people, some are my friends. But we all agree that it's pushed way too much when a general media has a homosexual relationship.
So don't get me wrong. I'm fine with homosexuality, I'm not fine, that the media plays it up everytime it is present to try and get people to accept it. Let people live how they want, don't force things on them.
And some people will never accept it. I don't agree with it at all. But I know it exists. I find nothing wrong with the relationships per-se, but it's the matter of family that gets me. It's a completely different issue. But I have straight cousins who are married, who aren't having any children. I am as opposed to that as homosexuality, because I believe the main purpose of marraige and life in general, is to reproduce and pass on your own knowledge and experiences, oh and the main purpose of sex is to reproduce, and homosexual sex, involves no reproduction, hence my problem with it.(and if you ask if I ever have sex for fun, no I'm a virgin and will stay that way until I'm in love and plan on having kids with someone... on another note, yes I have been asked to have sex so don't just say I've never had the chance or I would). That's my opinion, so yeah....
THE JACKEL
Marriage and sex for reproduction is mostly a Christian view. I'd rather marry someone because I love them. There's another term for sexual intercourse called "making love" that doesn't necissarily equate to "making babies" :D I plan on marrying one day. Having kids however isn't a goal of mine. And I'm hetero, not that it should matter. I agree with pretty much everything Weaver ranted about, except it seemed a little extremist towards the end :P I realize you get discriminated daily, but you can relax here. Tons of other openly homosexuals here, tons of acceptance to go with it. Yay for liberals on that part. I also agree with JACK, Queer Eye and Will and Grace were so played up on network television, despite the fact that they weren't very good shows (in my opinion) based on quality of content, rather on content itself. I got bored of Will and Grace, not because I'm a homophobe, but because it just stopped being funny.
Though I don't have cable TV anymore, so the media can't try to guilt me into doing things just to avoid critical judgement. I'm not a big fan of western film genre no matter what. Granted, I don't really want to see two guys kissing, but that has nothing to do with me not seeing the movie, as I could accept that if the film offered a premise I could enjoy. But I just don't enjoy westerns.
If it was two guys, the game would fail, Square would go bankrupt, and Dragon Quest would rise again and rule the world. If it was two girls, Square would make triple profits that year, and if there was a sex scene profits would be so high that Square would recycle the idea until it was old.
If it happened, It would be a Japan-Only release...
Stupid censors...
christian view eh, I'm far from any religion, so it's definitely not religion that gave me this view. I just think that to have a complete life, you need to create another one, plus that's how you're remembered...
THE JACKEL
what he saidQuote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
So what about people who cant have kids? People with reproductive issues?Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
You know who had a uncomplete life. Mother Theresa. She'll never be remembered either, cause she never had kids.
XD The hell is Mother Theresa XDQuote:
So what about people who cant have kids? People with reproductive issues?
You know who had a uncomplete life. Mother Theresa. She'll never be remembered either, cause she never had kids.
Very amusing. I love watching people act like idiots. And I would buy it.Quote:
What do you think the publics reaction would be If they made the main relationship in an upcoming Final Fantasy a homosexual one?
THANK YOU!!! Seriously,I cannot stand hypocrites. I don't get this so much, but I know people who do.Quote:
I get people all the time who tell me they could care less if I'm gay, as long as I don't "flaunt it". Then they hold hands with their girlfriends, or talk about their marriage, or in some cases comment every other second on someone's "rack" or how hot Angelina Jolie is.
So every day I get heterosexuality smeared all over my eyes and ears and nobody notices the irony when I make one mention of how a guy looks and they go "OH MY GOD YOU'RE GAY WE GET IT STOP BRINGING IT UP ALL THE TIME".
People watch Brokeback because it's gay... if it were a non-gay story, the straightest people ever would be the only people who watch it (since without gay, it's a dumb old western movie)
Being that I am homophobic to a degree I wouldnt buy it but I just have problems.
I demand that you all stop talking about the merits of Brokeback Mountain until you actually watch the movie.
I watch a LOT of movies, and I can honestly say that Brokeback Mountain was one of the most heartbreaking love stories I've ever seen on the silver screen. Gay or not.
So it's mind-boggling to me when people claim that this movie is simply a "dumb old western movie" or that it was hyped up simply because of the gay relationship. To put it simply, Brokeback Mountain was a wonderful movie.
If Squeenix made a wonderful game that involved a gay relationship, I would buy and enjoy the game.
I have watched the movie and I am homophobic but regardless gay cowboys is not the thing most people want to watch. It was wierd how people expected that movie to win an oscar. It was horrible.
I'm not into western movies... the storyline is too un-appealing...
It's not a western movie. It has to do with "cowboys" but they're not in the wild west, fighting the law or whatever. They're cowboys in the 1960s who do farm work and herd sheep. The story itself is a love story and the relationship between two men and their families.
I truly feel sorry for those who can't have kids, and not everyone does great things like Mother Theresa. Way to point out an extreme. But most people want 2 things in life, money, and to be famous/remembered, why do you think a bunch of people with money go into politics, you get put into history books for that. I mean family always remembers family, for who they really are, ona different level than in the public eye, stop twisting things when you know perfectly well what I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
THE JACKEL
What you mean is gay people are wrong. You use the excuse that they cant have kids. Well, that isnt a valid reason, as there are plenty of people who cant have kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
Homosexuals also have family and friends and even adopted children. They are remembered and cherished for who they are. So why again is being gay wrong?
You're wrong, your family WILL forget you... do you even know who your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather is? No, you probably do not... so, the only way you'll be "remembered" is being FAMOUS!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
Just disregarding all of the unnecessary homophobia in here, I think it would be an interesting idea. Square's done it once before, but it was so obscure it kind of fell under the radar. God only knows how it would end in America though. Some religious fundie gets their panties in a wad, the game gets pulled from shelves, and it becomes the next San Andreas.
I probably wouldn't buy it. Why? I'm personally not gay, and I don't find that kind of relationship appealing to me, personally. If it were the central focus of a game or movie, just because I am a straight male with no interest in gay relationships, I wouldn't feel any pressing desire to buy it.
Kind of like how I have no pressing desire to buy GTA because I don't find the concept of shooting cops and hookers appealing. Same basic principle in this case as far as I'm concerned.
I would not have a problem with it existing, however, it's fairly popular in some Japanese media (the aforementioned yaoi and shounen-ai). It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it were released. I would just not spend money on it.
Of course were the relationship not really a central focus, then I might be pursuaded to get it. It has to do with how the game is presented, really.
Confession time! Brokeback Mountain didn't appeal to me either, and I've never seen the movie. But full-on love stories aren't really my thing. I would never say someone was homo hating just because they didn't want to see it. I'd say they are all discriminating only if the REASON they won't see it is because it has a gay relationship, and if one of them was replaced by a woman it would suddenly be something of interest to them. I guess it depends on if you're telling yourself you don't like it just because it's "western" style when you actually know you were turned off from the moment you saw it, or if you honestly just flat out don't care because you don't, true stories!
I don't think critics liked it just because it had a gay couple in it. If it sucks, I'm sure they would have said so. They don't just hand out awards to a movie because there's gay things in it. Look at The 24th Day, Latter Days, The Trip, Eating Out, or Big Eden. Those movies all blow...er, suck...er, I mean! They aren't any good ;)
That critic was called homophobic for his comments because he made it sound like Jake just wanted some action and manipulated Ledger into some loving. ARE those homophobic comments? Not really, in my opinion. It sounds to me just like he hated the movie... But whatever.
My final hope for the matter is that a topic like this would simply never exist. As in they will make gay couples and straight couples and it won't phase anybody. Just think, back in the ridiculously ignorant days when racism was at an all time high, black and white people couldn't even share a bathroom. Now when a black person walks into a restroom nobody even thinks twice about it, because it's completely stupid to split our bathrooms for no reason, right? Someday, it will be considered entirely silly to make a fuss over anything gay-related, and gay related movies and games will co-exist with straight ones side by side without any controversy or excessive attention just because it has a gay theme. SOMEDAY...but not in my lifetime.
As for saying the purpose of life is to pass on life, that's sort of a split thing I guess. I know some people who would never have children and some who say they can't imagine not having them. I guess it depends on you. I hate weddings, children, and dogs all three (yikes!) and therefore will never have any of those things, whether I can or can't. I hate to agree with a psychotic terrorist made of pixels, but Psycho Mantis spoke for me in finding it...strange...all humans ever think about is passing on their seed. But if the meaning of your life is to create life, then I am all for that. But that doesn't mean homosexual sex has no point. Perhaps to some the meaning of life is pleasure and nothing more...Get all you can before you die sort of thing. I guess it's different for everybody. The meaning of my life is to expose Hillary Duff's true identity, Satan. See, different!
I wouldn't say there's necessarily a problem with buying a game or movie that has a romance between straight people as the main focus over a game or movie that has a romance between gay people as the main focus. I'm allowed to like what I want, and I like women. Thus, if I am going to get something with romance as the central focus, I would prefer it be between a man and a woman, that's the kind of relationship I enjoy.
Of course, that requires me to actually get something that's primary focus is romance in the first place, which is something that is... unlikely at best.
What game?
Personally, I’d like to see a game where you could inadvertently, but not inevitably, end up in a homosexual relationship. Their have been doing the whole ‘affection’ thing since FFVII; it’s time to take it a step further. How awesome would it be to be able to manipulate who the protagonist ends up with in the end? Of course realistically, this means that they would have to downplay the whole ‘love’ theme a little, as multiple partners would cause trouble in relation to FMVs etc. I don’t really see this as a negative though. Ever since FFVIII far too much emphasis has been put on relationships.
It could work.
The term homophobia literally means an "irrational fear of or contempt for homosexuality or homosexuals"Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowy
Sorry, I don't fear homosexuals, I just disagree with their lifestyle. No matter what way you look at it, nature's reason for sex, is to reproduce.
THE JACKEL
Ok, let’s not turn this into a debate over the morality/nature of homosexuality. It isn’t really relevant to the topic.
actually it has everything to do with the topic. IF they made the game, those who were against homosexuality, probably wouldn't support the game nearly as much as those who were supporters of it. So yes, I do believe it relates directly to the topic...Quote:
Originally Posted by The Devourer Of Worlds
THE JACKEL
The subject is not whether homosexuality is wrong; it’s whether adding a homoerotic demeanour to an FF game would effect the public reaction to it. It relates to the topic, but it isn't relevent.
and the answer would be yes, people who supported homosexuality and homosexual rights would push the game as one of the best ever and a huge breakthrough, while others will get sick of hearing about how great it is, no matter how good the game actually is *coughff7cough*Quote:
Originally Posted by The Devourer Of Worlds
THE JACKEL
I'm not saying that people who find homosexuality immoral wouldn't have a bad reaction to the game; I'm just saying that discussion of whether homosexuality is moral or not should be conducted elsewhere. Right now, the topic is in danger of going down a road it won't recover from.
And here I am.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Devourer Of Worlds
Personally, I'd like to see it. However, I doubt it'd be recieved well. I could pretty much guaruntee it'd be banned in the Southern states at least, not to mention bible thumpers picketin Squenix's HQ 'til it's pulled from shelves worldwide. Or not. Who knows?
I think Fable allowed that. And had a lot of flack about it. It wasn't really intentional on their part. They just decided to be lazy, and found the results amusing, because the affection [program? ...thing] had no variables to differentiate betwen male NPCs and female NPCs so they were both capable of falling in love with the protagonists :DQuote:
Originally Posted by The Devourer Of Worlds
One of my friends is a huge bible thumping homophobe. But he's not a butthead about it. He's actually rather amusing and accepting considering how set in stone his beliefs are. He wont preach to homosexuals unless someone asks for his opinion. But don't you dare put a guy in a game that falls in love with his character xD
I guess in Fable they represent how much someone feels for your character by having a heart over their head or something? And he walked into, I think he said a school, and it had a male teacher, with a huge heart above the teacher's head. Teacher approched him with his love, so he just punched him in the face to make him hate him xD The heart dissappeared or something. Sounded amusing. I'm kinda glad they were lazy in that manner. So the game is open minded in an off handed sorta way
The Devourer Of Worlds is correct. I do not want this thread turning into an all out debate on whether homosexuality is right or wrong. Keep the topic to it's affect on the game.
I've always liked the idea of choosing who you end up with (a la harvest moon). That would please a lot of people I think. Then homosexuals can have their love story, straight people can laugh at it, and heterosexuals can have their love story, and homosexuals can laught at it.
Stop it, Homosexuality will never truly be accepted until everybody forgets judeo-christianty... and even if it did... parents would boycott... Square would lose huge amounts of money and Final Fantasy will forever be hated by parents... and preists would say "these video games are poisoning our youths into believing being a homosexual is okay" or something ridiculous... It would simply be a bad idea and it would never see a US release unless they change the lover into a girl (e.g. Vivian from Paper Mario) or make it seem like they aren't even in love...
B-but... Fable...
And you can CHOOSE to be homo there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareNUKE
As much as I hate to say it (Nothing against FlareNUKE, more against society) he's right. The moral majority find any reason to associate video games with all things evil, and this would only bolster that cause.
It would be cool to see. Honestly, it is not like people buy FF games for the love story now is it? People buy FF because they like the games, though seeing homosexual relation would be intruiging and would probably be boughten by more female players. After all the Boy's Love genre (manga) mostly sell to females. Anyways, I would not mind seeing it at all, as long as it is done right. In general I am a sucker for all types of love stories. So I do not see it as being any different. People just like to make a big deal of things. Just because you are straight does not make the game by virtue not understandable for you, after all love is love and someone's sexual orientation does not define them. For those two reasons it would not make it any harder to understand the character if s/he was homosexual, the only thing would be hard for a heterosexual would be the fact it is the same sex, not the fact they are in love or any other character trait.
So long as it can't affect whether or not we get the games, I honestly couldn't care. There are plenty of gems that are (or would be) hated and reviled. I would prefer to see some game makers take a bit of a chance here and there and stick to their guns. It'd make things so much more interesting.
True. Unfortunately I try to relate on more of a literal sense. Granted love as a whole I can sympathize with. But I'm one of those suckers that if the main heroine were real, I'd probably go for her (for the most part). One of the main reasons I didn't like FFX: Yuna. I didn't find her lovable in the least. It'd be even less of a draw if it were a guy 'cause I'd find him even less lovable (no offense). But that certainly doesn't mean I denounse the idea. I actually totally approve. Why should heteros be the only ones who can enjoy and relate to a good love story in a game?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Summoner of Leviathan
I hear ya about relating to the characters, or sympathizing with them as you put it. I cant go for a love story unless I can relate to the character.. like in the Star Wars prequels, I very much disliked Padme and thus the love story didnt endear to me at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyk
As for the game being reviled and freaked out about... I could see it happening. I dont know the degree it would be fought against, though... for some reason violence and homosexuality and so on (no, I'm not saying they're the same at all!) are accepted in movies, books, and comics, but not in video games. I suppose because video games are interactive. Or maybe people are just dumb.
And while the game may be spurned, I doubt it would be pulled from the shelves, at least not right away. I'm sure places like WalMart would refuse to sell it, but I wouldnt be surprised if all the outcry against it helped boost sales.
I think we may be overestimating the popularity of the Final Fantasy franchise a little. I mean, it isn’t GTA or HALO; it’s not going to draw the attention that these games would if they included homosexual themes. Sure, most people have at least heard of FF, but most of them only know it because of FFVII. Sure, you may find a few fundamentalist groups that catch wind of the game and treat it in the same manner they treat everything that has magic, demons and minorities but I think you will find the general public would be rather indifferent to its existence. I think if anything, it would be the Final Fantasy fans themselves that would protest the addition of homoerotic material.
Although when I say protest I really just mean not buying the game, spamming the net about how sick it makes them, and maybe writing an angry letter to Square-Enix (probably with the grammatical skills of a mentally retarded wombat).
That's a good point. Though really I rely on the homosexuality itself to increase the recognition. Once word gets on the grapevine, it'll be in the hot little hands of every psycho anti-homo group out there, and that itself with draw the attention.
I see FF fans as being a cross-section of normal gamers and obsessive super-bitchers who nitpick every single aspect of the game and freak out and everything Square does and does not do, so I definitly agree with that second paragraph. As for the severity, probably worse than usual, though I cant see Square giving a damn, especially because most of the complaints would (as usual) come from America and Europe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
Who's shoving anything? No one has to watch the movie, or turn on their radios and televisions to hear the commercials. We live in this society so we'll naturally interact with each other, and if you want to completely avoid something you always have the option of being a hermit or living with the Amish.
As far as homosexuality not being the norm, what is that supposed to mean? I find nothing abnormal about homosexuality...traditionalist conceptions seem to close the minds of those who are set in their ways- kind of reminds me of those people who burned Galileo for thinking the world was round...
Also, humans are not the same as some kind of animal; we are not dogs, ok? We decide who we want to share our bodies with, and it doesn't need to have ANYTHING AT ALL to do with reproduction. This is an argument that homophobes use to insult gays, but it is baseless since sexual relations amongst humans are characterized more strongly by bodily revelry than by need for reproduction. The decision for sexual relations for reasons not involving sexual reproduction is the choice of an individual human being, and the defense that heterosexual relations are right and homosexual relations are wrong is simply hypocritical and illogical.
The real reason is that video games are usually understood to be child's play... something only 9-year-old boys play... and i've noticed that bigot's favorite saying to homosexuality is that children are being affected... parents don't like the idea of their child growing up as a homosexual...Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
think about the "SpongeBob We are Family"... or the "Night Trap" game... Those have been heavily criticized... so don't hope on it... wether you guys like it or not... we live in a heterocentralist world, where heterosexuality is seen as the norm and homosexuality is seen as improper.
And yet Leisure Suit Larry gats by with nary a batting eye....hrmph.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareNUKE
You can keep thinking that if it makes you feel better, but homosexuality is here to stay and is accepted in most places around where I live (Southern California). Saying one is proper and the other not is simple hypocrisy and goes against everything the United States of America stands for.
This is true, but we also see homosexuality in manga (even manga released in the US) and movies, which children are also exposed to. Video games are an easy target because they're probably the least accepted by adults as a whole, and thus an easy target.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareNUKE
And no, we dont live in a heterocentralist world. We live in a sector of that world where parts are heterocentralist. I (like Lychon), live in Southern California, where homosexuality is generally accepted and even celebrated. Not by everyone, but that's to be expected. The whole world doesnt hate (or even neccesarily disagree with) homosexuals.
Because of the younger audience, I wouldn't agree to it, it would caus a whole load of problems.
I can just imagine the controversy. Mind you, FFs are usually 12+.
LunarWeaver...
LunarWeaver, LunarWeaver, LunarWeaver,
LunarWeaver, LunarWeaver, LunarWeaver...
The BIBLE doesn't 'approve' of, or whatever you want to say,
being gay. I don't really think there will ever be a time where
being gay will not be controversed. God made Adam, man, and
made Eve of Adam's rib , woman, he didn't make another
man did he? It was God's plan in having a man and woman
relationships. Your 'friends' do have the right to get in your
face, but you can speak up a little and tell them to get out
of your face. Maybe you should try getting into their faces
and tell them how they like it, and where have you seen someone
or a movie getting an award for being gay? Even if you did
would that stop you from being openly gay?
The bible devokes homosexuality and possibly invokes
heterosexuality
Sad, but true.Quote:
As much as I hate to say it (Nothing against FlareNUKE, more against society) he's right. The moral majority find any reason to associate video games with all things evil, and this would only bolster that cause.
For a T-rated series, it wouldn't fare well. It would be better to introduce the concept outside of Final Fantasy, in a not-so-mainstream gaming series. There will be more freedom that way, including the ability to rate the game 17+. Releasing it not under the FF label allows it to evade mainstream society's views and all the hoopla that will no doubt ensue.
Also, remember how Final Fantasy VIII was just a love story game? It would fare no better than that. I wouldn't condemn a game to that fate at all.
*agrees*Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Penalty
I have no problem with homosexuality in general, I just would rather not see 2 guys doing it... Or making out or anything.
My opinions getting across.Quote:
Originally Posted by vampirepiggyhunter7
First off, you do realize that this would be a Final Fantasy game right? Last time I checked they did not have sex in FF games. Also there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Okay, stop shoving your heterosexuality in MY face. Deal?Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
Gee... thanks for pointing out the obvioius for us... and it's not 'possibly', it's SURELYQuote:
Originally Posted by Sagensyg
Dont do it youll be in the system foreverQuote:
Okay, stop shoving your heterosexuality in MY face. Deal?
I don't and I'm not saying the typical homosexual person shoves it in mine either, I'm saying that when something involving gays in something like a movie is released, it's covered everywhere on every tv station, every news channel and everything, as if it's the greatest thing to ever happen, and in this case, the greatest movie to be released. That's all I'm saying. I have no problem with it, just when it's blown way out of proportion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torren McHasselhoffgard III
THE JACKEL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagensyg
Brokeback Mountain won SEVERAL awards, for the record.
and if we're gonna be honest, what do those awards really mean. How often have you seen a movie you've never even heard of nominated for something. How often have you seen a movie advertised for the first time saying it was like 6 golden globe nominations. Those awards are just ways for actors, directors, and everyone else to toot their own horns, they don't really mean anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Guess
THE JACKEL
They make a big deal out of many movies, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, etc...Unfrotunately I cannot say how much Brokeback mountain was covered on TV since I very rarely watch TV, due to me not having one. Brokeback Mountain is not the first, nor the last movie that will be plastered all over the TV stations. Also you have to understand, that it was a big deal. As far as I know, it is one of the first movies that featured a homosexual couple (As much as you could considered the two a couple) as the main love interest of a film. That does not happen every day, so people tend to make a big deal about it. Sure it got hyped, but many movies get hyped. *Shrugs* Its the media, deal with it. They go for what will get their viewers as a whole. Something controversial always works.Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
>>> Thats so true..Quote:
Originally Posted by Rengori
Didn't Fear Effect try to play off that?
I don't know how the world would react to it. It might be a commercial failure for Square, but it'd fulfill the dreams of more than a few " Otaku's " and other sad individuals out there.
I'm sick and tired of fanboys and fangirls speculating over the sexual orientation of fictional characters in their favorite manga/ videogames. It's akin to celebrity gossip - a bunch of airbrushed, airheaded giggling 13-year old girls debating the significance of Brad Pitt's engagement to Angelina Jolie, while they're not saturating themselves in gaudy cosmetics or listening to the same music that everyone else listens to because " it's hip " and " the in thing." In this case we've got a slightly more intellectual bunch who rather than play the damn game and shut up, like to portray their favorite characters in blatantly homoerotic scenes or worse yet, discuss the subject of their sexuality ...
" Ooh, is Zell gay ? He sure has the hots for Squall, I'll bet."
" My, what an intelligent conclusion, " Otaku ", let's masturbate !
" Ok,I'll download the yaoi ! "
On the issue of homosexuality, it's very divided. I say it's a free country - people are free to love as they choose, so get over it all you homophobes. [leeza]*snip*
Considering that you are naming names, I will consider that to be flaming. Be a lot more careful next time you decide to give examples. ~ Leeza[/leeza]
you misunderstand me. There are numerous movies I never hear of, then they get nominated. LOTR, HP, you can't compare them. People knew of these movies years before they were released, so of course they're hyped. They don't get nominated for anything til after they are released though. Brokeback Mountain, and a number of others, got nominated before being released, and I had never even heard of, and no one I know did either. All of a sudden it's advertised as this huge amazing movie, and it's not even in theatres yet. That's what pisses me off.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Summoner of Leviathan
THE JACKEL
Critics and people in the movie business see these things before they're released. They give their opinions on it before they're ever released, hence why Brokeback was getting such hype and hence why it was nominated before its release. All movies that are released so close to Oscar time are watched as far in advance as possible so the Oscar folks can give it any nominations it deserves.
I can honestly say, there has never been a movie up for major awards in the past 5 years or so that I have never heard of.Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
Those awards DO mean something. And just because most of America would prefer to watch Jessica Alba in a swimsuit fighting sharks, doesn't mean that the films you've never heard of aren't any good.
Also, in order to qualify for the Oscars, a movie MUST be released before December 31st of that movie year. So every single movie that was nominated for an Academy Award was playing in theaters at the very least a month or so before nominations for the Oscars came out.
Just thought I should clear that up.
Oh really? I didnt know that about the cut off date. Thanks, doll [img]http://home.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/heart.gif[/img]
I would like to know who those awards mean something to... Cause they mean nothing to me. I'm not going to see a movie just cause it won all these awards, which is half the reason for the awards. TO tell people it's suppose to be a good movie and they should put money into it. If I had no interest before it won awards, I still have none after it does. Like I said, it boosts the ego of those involved with the project, that's what it really accomplishes.
THE JACKEL
Yes you did.Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
no, I said when something like a homosexual movie is produced, it gets shoved in my face, it's on every news channel for over a week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Torren McHasselhoffgard III
THE JACKEL
Umm... wait... most homosexual movies rarely get much hype... (In blockbuster, look in romance section.... I've never heard of many of theM)
Brokeback Mountain is the ONLY homosexual movie I can think of that has received any hype.
My friends have introduced me to a lot of films like Party Monster and But I'm a Cheerleader, and I'd never heard of them before. I go for more obscure films, so that made it even more unusual for me.
So no, I've never seen any single homosexual film given that much coverage, save for Brokeback.
Uh! I loved "But...I'm a Cheerleader!", such a smurfing tongue-in-cheek-type movie!
I think we're kind of deviating away from the subject here.
What other homosexual movie has recieved the kind of attention Brokeback Mountain has? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
Also, unlike Mel Gibson and the Passion of the Christ, Ang Lee and the Brokeback Mountain crew never rose to the bait that the media set for them. They never made challenges to the people who were against this movie, they never responded when people tried to ignite a controversy, they just quitely went about their business and did what they could to promote their movie without stooping to cheap tricks and media blitzes.
They did a fantastic job with the movie, and reward after reward is being handed to them, but they didn't ask for the kind of attention that they're getting. And I think they're handling it very well.
The Media might be churning up whatever they can about Brokeback, but that's just what they do. They latch onto something they feel is gonna "make it big" and then they don't let go until everyone is sick of it.
No one's shoving anything in your face. You're not forced to watch your TV or listen to your radio. And by your logic, any movie regarding heterosexuality is then also SHOVED into the faces of everyone who sees and hears about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
Sounds like you're just mad and prejudiced against homosexuality due to previous misconceptions of right and wrong. THis is the United States of America, and freedom supercedes any kind of pressure from religion or personal moral beliefs which are used as a weapon to control the lives of others.
Oh, and Brokeback Mountain is a great movie! I hope it wins all the oscars it has been nominated for and they make millions more movies with a homosexual topic :)
it has nothing to do with right and wrong, and if people choose to be that way, or whatever, let them. I don't support it. And I get sick of hearing that just because you don't support it, you hate it, and you have to accept it and all that crap. I also have freedom, freedom to disagree with it. SO let me, I don't have to agree with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lychon
THE JACKEL
it has nothing to do with right and wrong, and if people choose to be that way, or whatever, let them. I don't support it. And I get sick of hearing that just because you don't support it, you hate it, and you have to accept it and all that crap. I also have freedom, freedom to disagree with it. SO let me, I don't have to agree with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lychon
and also with reference to the right and wrong, considering it's an FF forum, I'll put this
"Right and wrong are not what seperate us from our enemies(in this case, eachother). It's our different standpoints, our perspectives that seperate us. Both sides blame one another. There's no good or bad side. Just two sides holding different views. " SQUALL
THE JACKEL
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
You can disagree with it all you want, no one is STOPPING you. People also disagreed with granting basic HUMAN RIGHTS to African Americans; maybe we should have let those people keep on disagreeing with the notion of civil liberties and brought back slavery, huh? Maybe their "standpoints" were their own right and they should have been allowed to degrade, torture, and murder African Americans because they had "different standpoints," and we should have "LET" them keep on doing these things, huh? That would have been nice, don't you think?
Maybe it was all right that some people "DISAGREED" with a certain quality of other individuals and thought it was ok to kill them, to destroy their homes, to rape their wives all because they had "different standpoints."
Or maybe we should have never granted women voting rights because some people diagreed with it because their sick minds were intent on controlling the lives of others...that would have been nice too, huh? Perhaps we should make separate reservations for homosexuals and lockup anyone who mentions the subject in public, huh?
So yeah, you can disagree all you want. But your arguments seem baseless. No one is shoving anything. No one is forcing anything on you. Freedom is here to stay, and there IS a generally accepted notion of right and wrong in this society. Just like slavery and civil liberties, more and more people are understanding that arguments against homosexuality are illogical, unconstitutional, and downright hateful.
By the way, that was a nice quote from Squall, but even I, who prize Final Fantasy 8 above almost anything else, know when to draw the line between our reality and a video games reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeza
Oops, I totally didn't see that post. :D My bad...I just get hyped up when people make arguments against something and they are so...ah forget it...what's the point?
I pretty much agree with leechy
ljkkjlcm9, have you seen "Brokeback Mountain"? (That was a rhetorical question, by the way; I find it likelier that you're Elvis Presley reincarnate.) I dare you to go and see it. Then you can come back and give us your (more) enlightened opinion. Until then, you have no right to judge it.
Some statistics on the movie, from Box Office Mojo http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/...ckmountain.htm:
Domestic Total as of Feb. 10, 2006: $63,586,000
Overseas: $31,000,000
Worldwide: $94,586,000
Widest Release: 2,089 theaters
Hardly a "failure", in any sense of the word. In fact, I would call BBM a resounding success - both commercially and critically.
Oh, and BBM was made as a straight movie; it was called "Titanic". Quite successful. You might have heard of it...? Hey! Even the posters are similar! (Check out attachments)
P.S. I'd just like to get in a free plug for BBM: go and see it guys! Not only will you appear less ignorant in threads like this one, but is it a beautiful and heartwrenching movie (prepare for pain), and it, you know, won't "turn you gay" or anything! (Not that it's possible to "turn someone gay", anyway.)
My god people. You're blowing what I say way out or proportion. I'm not saying we should like, enslave homosexuals. Or that they deserve no rights or anything. NOTHING like that. I'm just saying that if they want to be treated equally, then don't make such a big deal out of this movie. IN FACT, I feel they deserve all the same rights as anyone else. Marriage is a touchy subject cause of religion, I'm not religious, so I don't care if they get married, but those who are religious, may have a problem with it. I disagree with their lifestyle, I don't disagree with their life, or their existence.
It's a movie, and it did well, mainly because of the homosexual relationship. AND, if they made a homosexual relationship in a game, most of the success would come from people interested in how that relationship is played out in the game. And don't try the "have you seen it" thing. I did not see the entire movie, but I have seen enough of it. It's fine as movies go, not exactly my favorite, and not because of the relationship. I just don't enjoy that type of movie, I also didn't enjoy titanic, if you want to make that connection. I still think the actors did really well.
Let me ask you, Have you listened to Rush Limbaugh? THAT isn't rhetorical, though I doubt you have.
THE JACKEL
Homosexuality will never truly be accepted... what's the point?
Does Leeza need to quote herself again?
Yes
did I not say in my last post that the game would probably do well because people would be interested in how they played out the relationship?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rengori
THE JACKEL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starboard Regulator FlareNUKE
Yes it will be because progress will never be stiffled by conservative oppression.
All I can say is if they make it so that the characters are guys that happen to be gay, I'll buy it. If they end up being flamers, I will boycott Square for life.
Well, I just posted an erotic picture for all the homosexuals in my avatar ;)
But Christiantitiy is 85% of America, and they oppose even ACCEPTING it, one site (http://www.tencommandments.org) said homosexuality is the equivlent of murder and should met with death... (ermm... talk about overdoing it). Black People were never mentioned in the bible to be oppressed and while women are said to be oppressed but the subject was simply not brought up for some reason...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lychon
omg, conservative oppression? I just lost some respect for you for calling it that, you really think they're being opressed? Don't even try and compare it to women's rights, or slavery with blacks, it's not even close. They have it so much better if this is oppression for them. Blacks were slaves, no rights. Women had a number of rights and were definitely human beings, they had it better than blacks, but they couldn't vote and a few other things too. Homosexuals... let's see, they can't get married.... is there anything else? I don't think homosexuals are being opressed. Though, it'd be interesting if Square made the game so that homosexuals were in slavery, and they revolted and that's the basis of the game. Now THAT would be interesting...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lychon
THE JACKEL
Ummm...off topic but women were not consider people in Canada until the Peoples case that went to the JCPC *forgets date* Before then women were not considered people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
"They had it better than blacks." What little respect I had for you has just flown out the window as well. I believe you have no idea what you are talking about and misunderstand your own sub-conscious manifestations of racism and discrimination. "Blacks?"
The situation with homosexuality is EXTREMELY similar to African American oppression and sexism against women. It is pure and simple conservative OPPRESSION by the religious right and political traditionalist to control the freedoms of individuals. Homosexuals are constantly barraged with verbal and physical insults in daily society. If you had been paying attention to the news, you will have known that just recently an individual opened fire in a gay bar, killing and injuring several individuals. This is just one example of continued conservative oppression which has caused a fanatical person to take action against someone else's freedom.
You are attempting to oversimplify a complex situation by stating that the only thing homosexuals cannot do is get married. You can say the same thing about slavery through the comment "Slavery was ok because the only thing African Americans were missing was their freedom. Otherwise, they were just fine."
You say "women had a number of rights and were definitely human beings." Are you implying that homosexuals are not human beings? Your discrimination is not going to stifle individuals from being free. Homosexuals are here to stay and will only grow and influence society to a greater degree in the future. If you don't like other people from having their freedom, then move out of general society and be a hermit. Conservative oppression has ALWAYS been defeated in the past, and your kind of racism and discrimination will also be crushed in the face of individual FREEDOM in the years to come.
As an attempt to save this thread I made a topic in Eyes on Eachother. http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthrea...45#post1535045
Please continue the Argument there so that the topic of this thread can continue.
The publics reaction? The game would be rejected imho.
For myself, if there happened to be a gay relationship in a ff, I wouldnt mind. If the game was about the gay relationship, I probably wouldnt buy it.
There has never been a Final Fantasy game where the focus of the story was a romantic relationship. I doubt this would change if the relationship just happened to be a homosexual one.
Well, just so you know... looking at my avatar will turn any straight man gay!
I personally wouldn't care what sort of relationship was in the game, I'd buy if it looked like a good game, if it didn't, I wouldn't, the type of relationship in it wouldn't affect my decision.
As for Brokeback Mountain, I think it has been hyped up a bit because of the "different" relationship in it, because that's the only thing I've heard about the film really. I think I would like to see it though, because friends have said it is good, and I like the actors in it.
And, personally, I think that it is a disgrace that in this day and age people can still discriminate against homosexuals! I am a Christian, and I understand many other Christians believe gay people to be sinners and bad people, but I do not. I believe that everybody should be treat the same regardless of their age, gender, skin colour or sexual preference. Also, I realise how much my views look like they've just been stolen from a website on equality, but yeah :p
you are insane. I called them Blacks, so I'm racist. African Americans is a politically correct term. Hell, that means I have to be referred to as Caucasian. I'm white, plain and simple. And you're the one to oversimplify what I said. I said "African Americans" had it far worse that Women, and Women had it worse than Homosexuals. That's the problem. Homosexuals are acting like they have it nearly as bad as these people did in the past. THEY DON'T. I never said I had a problem with Homosexuals. I'm not racist or prejudice. They're fine, they can exist, they can live normal lives, they can be here with heterosexuals. I think diversity is what makes this country I live in great. You realize Abraham Lincoln was conservative. You compare extremist to everyday conservatives, and that's just wrong. I'm not calling you a psycho Michael Moore am I?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lychon
You know what, they should make a homosexual game. Just to shut people up, I look forward to it.
THE JACKEL
They have made a Genesis Game that had a homo character in it if I recall correctly, though the US version removed it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starboard Regulator FlareNUKE
It worked for me.....:love:
[leeza]*snip*[/leeza]
P.S. This is a good post. :choc2:
[leeza]The language and content of this link is not acceptable. ~ Leeza[/leeza]
um...as awesome as that link is, maybe some sort of warning is in order due to its content...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
So now I am insane, huh? I see you've degraded to name calling in the face of an argument that you have no defense for.
Get this through your head: you are a RACIST and you DISCRIMINATE against others due to your biased upbringing. Homosexuals DO have it as bad as others, not like you would know anyways. You DID say you had a problem with them by stating that you disagree with their lifestyle. THis means that you have a problem with them; don't try to twist your words and backpedal. You are a CONSERVATIVE OPPRESSOR who fights against freedom you will be defeated just like slavery was defeated; just like Nazi Germany was defeated; just like social inequality was defeated in the 20th century.
Abraham Lincoln was pivotal in the ending of slavery, and has absolutely nothing to do with your position. You are grasping at straws now. Homosexuality is here to stay, and it will only grow and influence society to a further degree until people like you no longer have a voice to attack other peoples freedoms.
As deeply enthralling as this backwards-and-forwards battle of childish name calling is proving to be, it has been pointed out several times now that what you are discussing is completely and utterly off topic. Another thread has been made in EoEO so you can continue your “discussion” without it effecting this thread. You can find it here.
EDIT: This was much more fun.
ljkkjlcm9: Keep it out of this thread please. You are going way off topic. corncracker has made this thread in EoEO. Take it there if you further wish to debate this.
EDIT: This also means you, Lychon.
EDIT 2: The Devourer Of Worlds. Please use the warn button in the future instead of doing your own moderating.
[leeza]*snip*[/leeza]
EDIT: sorry, I posted this before that post previous of this was made, I won't post here anymore
[leeza]Thank you then. ~ Leeza :)[/leeza]
[leeza]*snip*[/leeza]
[leeza][/leeza]
OOC: Having no access to EoEO is unfortunate for you at this point, but his post does not belong here. You'll just have to wait till your ban is lifted in order to respond. ~ Leeza
well I'd like to say on topic, that I think it would be a very interesting game and probably sell pretty well. It will definitely get a good amount of attention because it is an FF game, plus an added amount for the homosexual relationship, and it would be very interesting to see how the story is played out.
THE JACKEL
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
WOw, this guy just won't stop. I cannot believe how quickly you reverse your stance when met with argumentative opposition. This was your FIRST post regarding this topic on a Final Fantasy game featuring a homosexual relationship:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
You have now COMPLETELY lost credibility and proven yourself as a clear and direct bigot by claiming such contradictive statements. There is no argument you can dish out against homosexuality to disprove its validity. Sex is only for reproduction? Says who? You? The conservative oppressors? Your religion? Reproduction is but ONE purpose for sex. Recently on the news, a report of 3 pairs of penguins who were involved in homosexual relations were introduced to an equal number of FEMALE penguins. Guess what happened? They wanted nothing to do with them, so if you think homosexuality is against nature, you've got another thing coming. It is a basic principle of the natural world and is common amongst many animals, not just humans.
This is not communist China, this is the United States of America, and freedom of privacy and speech will not give way to brutal suppression by traditionalists who wish to hold on to what little power they have left. I bet you are against abortion too, huh? Christ...
Thank you for killing this thread.