Arsenal - crisis or not?

I've been a keen Arsenal supporter for about 11 years and I've never thought I'd see them lose so many games this season. What gives? I mean we have potentially the one of the best and most talented strikers in the world and a superb manager with a certain habit of picking up young gifted players yet this season we seem to be struggling. Does anyone have any concerns about this or am I the only Gooner stressing a worry. BTW we have managed to turn seasons around before but it does seem that at present we are leaving it a bit too late!

It's because your ways out are blocked by rich fags like Chelsea, they've managed to put a block to teams makin a comeback.

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Originally Posted by mobiletype

I've been a keen Arsenal supporter for about 11 years and I've never thought I'd see them lose so many games this season. What gives? I mean we have potentially the one of the best and most talented strikers in the world and a superb manager with a certain habit of picking up young gifted players yet this season we seem to be struggling. Does anyone have any concerns about this or am I the only Gooner stressing a worry. BTW we have managed to turn seasons around before but it does seem that at present we are leaving it a bit too late!

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I love supporting a team that considers fifth place in February to be a crisis. Everyone knew we weren't going to win the title this season, so essentially a Champions' League place is all we need to consider the season a success. We're three points behind Spurs with a game in hand and superior goal difference, so I don't see what the problem is.

Sure, we've been nowhere near as dominant as we used to be, but there are very good reasons for that. After selling Vieira, it's going to take time to find the right replacement (and Diaby looks as though he could fill the role once he settles in). We've also had horrendous luck with injuries in recent months. Ashley Cole has played eight games all season, and he's one of nine defenders who are out right now. For a team playing Mathieu Flamini at right-back, we're not playing all that badly, and when key players like Campbell and Toure return, our results will improve and we'll overtake Spurs.

That's not to say there isn't a problem. Our morale has been low since we lost our undefeated streak, and the performances on the pitch have reflected that. The fans know that the team is capable of better, and I imagine the players are as frustrated as they are. We just have to keep our faith in them, because sooner or later they're going to get their confidence back and make their way back into contention. This sort of bad spell doesn't last forever.

i think arsenals problem is that they lack a leader on the pitch. Veira was that, and i think that ye miss him badly. Theyres nothing wrong with your strikers, or pretty much the rest of your team for that matter. Lots of new players have come in, and its still a young and unfamilliar team. Players are struggling to gel together and find there place. Id imagine if you keep all your squad for next season, or it may take slightly longer, i think ye can be back to youre best, having said that, its not because arsenal are getting much worse, its that teams are getting better. Man united are finding there stride now, so is Liverpool, so its ups to arsenal now to keep the pace.
Potentially, i think Arsenal and United have the best team on paper, but Chelsea and Liverpool have more team disipline and motivation. Saying that, nothings going to deny the simple fact that chelsea are a circus! god they annoy me...:mad:

I think Arsenal's main problem stems from Arsene Wengers moves in the transfer market. Experienced players leave the club when thier contracts expire or are sold, and Wenger brings in young players, who will be good players in a few years to replace them.

I'm not an Arsenal fan so I don't know the entire squad, but I can't think of many Arsenal players who are between 23 - 26 years old. There either 21 or under or 28 plus. I think they could do with a few high profile established players with proven quality. It's good to have talented youngsters for the future but if thats all you buy then your 1st team is going to struggle if there are injuries. Which is what's happened this season. Imo there's no strength in depth after Wengers first choice eleven.

Look at what Rafa Benitez is doing at Anfield. He's bought in established, experienced players like Alonso, Garcia, Morientes and Zenden, but he's also bought in younger players for the future.

Arsenal are in a transitional period, but I also think Arsene Wenger needs to be abit more adventureus in the transfer market, other wise Arsenal may end up Like Liverpool in the 90's.

I don't think there's any real crisis as such, but I think Wenger needs to strengthen the squad in the summer. He needs a couple of players in midfield who can dish it out. Whenever Arsenal come up against physical teams, the likes of Reyes, Hleb, Fabregas etc. don't really convince. Viera was a physical player and they definitely miss the balance that he gave them.

Other than that, I think it's just a matter of getting over the injuries. And Flamini is a bit pants.

After Vieria left they have struggled and when Henry is out they look woeful, i think a new good Central Midfielder would solve thier problems:)

The reasons Arsenal are sucking:

1. They sold Patrick Vieria. He was a huge player for the club, and they were always going to struggle. More so when they decided the best replacement was Mathieu Flamini.

2. Ashburton Grove. Meant less money for transfers, meant they couldn't compete for the big names. All he could get was youngsters, and his judgment on them has never been that hot. I can't think of a single youngster to show true quality for them since Ashley Cole

3. Reliance on Henry. Arsenal's game plan focuses on Henry's ability to get around the pitch as well. He plays badly, or is adequately defended against, then the team suffers.

4. Age. Bergkamp's ancient. Pires is getting old. Same for Ljungberg and Campbell. The stars are aging, and the kids aren't good enough to take their place.

5. Injuries. The back four has been totally screwed up from those. You can't expect his youth team to fill in well.

6. Chelsea. Nuff' said. *loves her Chelsea* :love:

Arsenal are really a one-man show, and it all comes down to Mr. Thierry Henry.

But the thing is, these days with all the rumours of him leaving, he seems to be looking to the other players to convince him that Arsenal have the quality to make him stay, without putting in the effort himself. I don't know why Wenger made him captain, he's just not a leader. Well, actually, yes I do: To stop him leaving. If I were an Arsenal fan, I'd be happier seeing the likes of Toure, Campbell or Lehmann made captain instead.

Henry isn't the only veteran whose performances have been lacklustre. The likes of Pires, Campbell and Ljungberg have all seemed bored and unfocused. They simply can't do this. They have to set an example to the younger players in the team.

I genuinely do not believe that Henry, Cole or Pires will be playing at Ashburton Grove next season, and we already know that Dennis Bergkamp won't be. This isn't as bad as it would seem, however. Remember how many people predicted doom and gloom for Arsenal when they sold the likes of Overmars, Anelka, Petit, and people like Adams retired? Sure, they fell behind Man Utd again, but then their younger, less-established players like Henry, Vieira, etc. improved and they became an incredible force, and I expect the likes of Fabregas, Van Persie and Reyes to do the same.

However, for this season and next season their ambitions will be limited to Champion's League qualification. They can overtake Spurs and qualify this season, provided the likes of Henry pull their fingers out of their arses.

And now, because I like correcting Czanthor:

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Ashley Cole has played eight games all season, and he's one of nine defenders who are out right now

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ERK! Wrong. At the worst point of Arsenal's defensive crisis, only 8 defenders were out (Campbell, Toure, Eboue, Clichy, Gilbert, Cole, Cygan and Lauren) and seeing as how both Toure and Eboue played against the mighty Liverpool last week, Gilbert has been selected for the England U-19 game vs Slovakia, and apparently Ashley Cole and Gael Clichy are due to return from injury this week, this leaves only three injured. :p (and is Pascal Cygan being injured a bad thing?)

PS: One more thing that Arsenal need to do is to get rid of the vastly overrated and extremely ineffective Gilberto Silva. I don't care if he won the World Cup. The likes of Djimi Traore, Antonio Nunez and Josemi all have Champion's League Winners medals!

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Originally Posted by Black Mage 121

I love supporting a team that considers fifth place in February to be a crisis.

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I know I certainly wouldn't be complaining if Everton were in that situation.

I certainly wouldn't consider Arsenal being in a crisis, having lived through Everton's disasterous first half of the season, which I would consider a crisis. Though I really think that Spurs are bound to drop the points and you'll finish in that last Champion's League spot. If you fancy loaning us a goalkeeper, well be more than happy to beat Spurs for you!

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

Arsenal are really a one-man show, and it all comes down to Mr. Thierry Henry.

But the thing is, these days with all the rumours of him leaving, he seems to be looking to the other players to convince him that Arsenal have the quality to make him stay, without putting in the effort himself. I don't know why Wenger made him captain, he's just not a leader. Well, actually, yes I do: To stop him leaving. If I were an Arsenal fan, I'd be happier seeing the likes of Toure, Campbell or Lehmann made captain instead.

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The sad thing is that you're right. The whole club is in a total panic about Henry leaving, and so we're doing crazy stuff like giving him the captain's armband to keep him at the club. While I don't think that the club is doomed, I do believe that if Thierry leaves at the end of the season we'll have a tough 06-07. Our youngsters won't be quite ready to take over from the established squad, and we won't have Henry's flashes of genius to bail us out.

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Henry isn't the only veteran whose performances have been lacklustre. The likes of Pires, Campbell and Ljungberg have all seemed bored and unfocused. They simply can't do this. They have to set an example to the younger players in the team.

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I wouldn't say that Henry has been lacklustre, since any striker who's scored fifteen times at this stage in the season must be doing their job pretty damn well. But I do agree that the other mainstays like Pires and Ljungberg (despite having injury problems of their own) haven't been themselves as of late. We used to score from midfield all the time, but it just hasn't worked for us this season. Freddie's scored once in nineteen Premiership games, which by his standards is quite frankly terrible.

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I genuinely do not believe that Henry, Cole or Pires will be playing at Ashburton Grove next season, and we already know that Dennis Bergkamp won't be. This isn't as bad as it would seem, however. Remember how many people predicted doom and gloom for Arsenal when they sold the likes of Overmars, Anelka, Petit, and people like Adams retired? Sure, they fell behind Man Utd again, but then their younger, less-established players like Henry, Vieira, etc. improved and they became an incredible force, and I expect the likes of Fabregas, Van Persie and Reyes to do the same.

However, for this season and next season their ambitions will be limited to Champion's League qualification. They can overtake Spurs and qualify this season, provided the likes of Henry pull their fingers out of their arses.

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This is all pretty much true, although I think it's rather pessimistic to say that all of our stars are going to leave after one bad season, particularly if we still make the Champions' League. Still, I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that we're going to lose at least one of our key players over the summer, so it's up to Arsene to rediscover his once-keen sense for finding young talent (insert paedophilia joke here) and give us a reliable replacement for Cole/whoever.

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And now, because I like correcting Czanthor:ERK! Wrong. At the worst point of Arsenal's defensive crisis, only 8 defenders were out (Campbell, Toure, Eboue, Clichy, Gilbert, Cole, Cygan and Lauren) and seeing as how both Toure and Eboue played against the mighty Liverpool last week, Gilbert has been selected for the England U-19 game vs Slovakia, and apparently Ashley Cole and Gael Clichy are due to return from injury this week, this leaves only three injured. :p (and is Pascal Cygan being injured a bad thing?)

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Holy smurf, you mean that we've only lost eight of our first team defenders!? And yet we still haven't managed to cope!? Why, you've opened my eyes! What a shambles our squad must be, not to overcome such a trifling loss! Why, my fury at this pathetic display is so great that I shall henceforth break all ties with the club and start supporting Chelsea, whose record with injuries is remarkably good for a club with five czillion pounds, and have enough cash to buy Shaun Wright-Phillips and then wreck his career, just so we can't get our hands on him. You'd think that with all that money, karma would come into effect and John Terry would suffer an unfortunate skydiving accident (e.g. discovering that his parachute is actually full of rotting whale meat). It almost makes you wonder if there's any justice at all! (Can we at least agree on this bit?)

Besides, I was actually including Justin Hoyte, who is on loan to Sunderland and is therefore unavailable. To be fair, they weren't all unavailable at the time of writing, but I don't think this changes the fact that losing nine sodding defenders is a bit of a bit. I'd also like to point out that Pascal Cygan has scored twice as many goals this season as Harry Kewell and also does not have the worst haircut in the world. This statistic doesn't have much relevance, but it's still fun to note nevertheless. Frankly, you wouldn't have won the Champions' League if Kewell hadn't had the good sense to go and get injured, so don't go around thinking we're the only team with a complete and utter joke in our squad. :p

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PS: One more thing that Arsenal need to do is to get rid of the vastly overrated and extremely ineffective Gilberto Silva. I don't care if he won the World Cup. The likes of Djimi Traore, Antonio Nunez and Josemi all have Champion's League Winners medals!

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I think you're being a little unfair on Gilberto. He's overrated, sure, but still a dependable player in the middle of the park, who has the experience needed to counterbalance the youth of Fabregas or Diaby. He gets forward when needed, and can put in a strong tackle if needed too. I'm not saying he's essential, just that there's no need to be getting rid of him either.

And this thread was going so well, too... :(

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Originally Posted by Black Mage 121

I wouldn't say that Henry has been lacklustre, since any striker who's scored fifteen times at this stage in the season must be doing their job pretty damn well.

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He was doing fine until around January, but in the last couple of Arsenal matches I have seen, all he seemed to do was throw his hands up in the air in exasperation, or stand with his hands on his hips.

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This is all pretty much true, although I think it's rather pessimistic to say that all of our stars are going to leave after one bad season, particularly if we still make the Champions' League. Still, I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that we're going to lose at least one of our key players over the summer, so it's up to Arsene to rediscover his once-keen sense for finding young talent (insert paedophilia joke here) and give us a reliable replacement for Cole/whoever.

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It's not really because of a bad season, it's because they need a new challenge. What more is there for Henry, Pires or Cole to achieve at Arsenal that they haven't already achieved? Well, success in Europe for one, and let's face it: Arsenal do not have a good European record. Henry and Pires aren't getting any younger, and I think they'd like to experience something new in a different league while they still have the ability to do so. For the record, I don't want any of them to leave...well...maybe Pires, diving bastard...maybe Cole too, actually, he's no better. Okay, I don't want Henry to leave, because he is an exciting player to watch on top form

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Holy smurf, you mean that we've only lost eight of our first team defenders!? And yet we still haven't managed to cope!? Why, you've opened my eyes! What a shambles our squad must be, not to overcome such a trifling loss! Why, my fury at this pathetic display is so great that I shall henceforth break all ties with the club and start supporting Chelsea, whose record with injuries is remarkably good for a club with five czillion pounds, and have enough cash to buy Shaun Wright-Phillips and then wreck his career, just so we can't get our hands on him. You'd think that with all that money, karma would come into effect and John Terry would suffer an unfortunate skydiving accident (e.g. discovering that his parachute is actually full of rotting whale meat). It almost makes you wonder if there's any justice at all! (Can we at least agree on this bit?)Besides, I was actually including Justin Hoyte, who is on loan to Sunderland and is therefore unavailable. To be fair, they weren't all unavailable at the time of writing, but I don't think this changes the fact that losing nine sodding defenders is a bit of a bit. I'd also like to point out that Pascal Cygan has scored twice as many goals this season as Harry Kewell and also does not have the worst haircut in the world. This statistic doesn't have much relevance, but it's still fun to note nevertheless. Frankly, you wouldn't have won the Champions' League if Kewell hadn't had the good sense to go and get injured, so don't go around thinking we're the only team with a complete and utter joke in our squad. :p

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You distinctly said at the present moment in time! You could've recalled Mr. Hoyte from his Sunderland loan, especially as there was a transfer window, so I didn't count him. I didn't say it wasn't a blow, either, I was just stating the facts. ;)

As for Harry Kewell, he has had an outstanding season, and has performed better than every single Arsenal midfielder. Now, I know this is for one reason: The World Cup. However, it still doesn't change the fact that he's been our best player in about 8 matches since his return from "Injury". As for the Champion's League, well, even though he scored, it's not like Vladimir Smicer was a threat other than then to the likes of Cafu, Stam, Nesta and Maldini.

(I agree fully on the Chelski thing!)

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I think you're being a little unfair on Gilberto. He's overrated, sure, but still a dependable player in the middle of the park, who has the experience needed to counterbalance the youth of Fabregas or Diaby. He gets forward when needed, and can put in a strong tackle if needed too. I'm not saying he's essential, just that there's no need to be getting rid of him either.

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Get rid of him and buy Owen bloody Hargreaves, as even he'd be a better player. Gilberto, Fabregas, Diaby. That's the midfield I'd expect at someone like West Brom. (I think Fabregas just might level up to the awesome Zoltan Gera)

Just compare:
Makalele - Hamann - Gilberto (veteran defensive midfielder)
Essien - Sissoko - Diaby (young French-African defensive midfielder)
Maniche - Alonso - Fabregas (Silky passing star from south-west Europe)
Lampard - Gerrard - Ljungberg (Two of the best midfielders in the world, and Freddie Ljungberg)
Joe Cole - Luis Garcia - Hleb (Trickster who pops up with a goal from time-to-time...wait, does Hleb even score?)
Robben - Kewell - Pires. (Whiny winger who everyone hates)

(Who would I compare Duff and Riise - guy who makes penetrating runs from the left, and has a powerful shot - to, anyway? Flamini? Help me out here!)

It's all very well to blame the defensive injuries, but when you look at this comparison, that much more of a problem, and it is why you aren't going to finish in the top two. Arsenal have the worst player in all 6 comparisons. I'd be happier with Lennon, Davids, Carrick, Tainio, Jenas and Murphy than I would be with Arsenal's midfield, truth be told, but I can't really fit their players into the categories. :p

If you get a better midfield, you will no longer need to be a one-man show. (And don't you give me guff about Liverpool being a one-man Gerrard show, because frankly, I'd be more concerned if Xabi Alonso was injured than if Stevie G was. Heck, his injury last season is probably why we finished 5th.)

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

He was doing fine until around January, but in the last couple of Arsenal matches I have seen, all he seemed to do was throw his hands up in the air in exasperation, or stand with his hands on his hips.It's not really because of a bad season, it's because they need a new challenge. What more is there for Henry, Pires or Cole to achieve at Arsenal that they haven't already achieved? Well, success in Europe for one, and let's face it: Arsenal do not have a good European record. Henry and Pires aren't getting any younger, and I think they'd like to experience something new in a different league while they still have the ability to do so. For the record, I don't want any of them to leave...well...maybe Pires, diving bastard...maybe Cole too, actually, he's no better. Okay, I don't want Henry to leave, because he is an exciting player to watch on top form

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You have a point there, but I think that there is more to the decision than mere trophy-hunting. If players were motivated entirely by silverware, Cole would've moved to Madrid ages ago, and Steven Gerrard would currently be wearing an ugly blue shirt.

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You distinctly said at the present moment in time! You could've recalled Mr. Hoyte from his Sunderland loan, especially as there was a transfer window, so I didn't count him. I didn't say it wasn't a blow, either, I was just stating the facts. ;)

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We could've recalled Hoyte, but that would mean he'd be unable to return to Sunderland, and once the crisis was over he'd have spent the rest of the season warming our subs' bench instead of gaining first-team experience.

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As for Harry Kewell, he has had an outstanding season, and has performed better than every single Arsenal midfielder. Now, I know this is for one reason: The World Cup. However, it still doesn't change the fact that he's been our best player in about 8 matches since his return from "Injury". As for the Champion's League, well, even though he scored, it's not like Vladimir Smicer was a threat other than then to the likes of Cafu, Stam, Nesta and Maldini.

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How can you possibly say that Kewell has outperformed every single one of our midfielders? He's simply lucky to be surrounded by good players on a good run of form. In the matches I've seen, he's hardly been impressive, and certainly not good enough to make up for his history of abject failure at the club. And I still stand by the hair comment.

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(I agree fully on the Chelski thing!)

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We should form a club! :)

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Get rid of him and buy Owen bloody Hargreaves, as even he'd be a better player. Gilberto, Fabregas, Diaby. That's the midfield I'd expect at someone like West Brom. (I think Fabregas just might level up to the awesome Zoltan Gera)

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That's the kind of comment I'd expect from the football fan equivalent of West Brom. I still haven't gathered what exactly is so bad about Gilberto, and to criticise Cesc Fabregas after the kind of perfomances he's been putting in at age 18 is just plain foolish. As for Diaby, he's played six games, and has shown every sign of being the tough-tackling midfielder we need. Just because he isn't a big name doesn't mean he isn't any good. After all, who had heard of Patrick Vieira when he first joined the club?

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Just compare:
Makalele - Hamann - Gilberto (veteran defensive midfielder)
Essien - Sissoko - Diaby (young French-African defensive midfielder)
Maniche - Alonso - Fabregas (Silky passing star from south-west Europe)
Lampard - Gerrard - Ljungberg (Two of the best midfielders in the world, and Freddie Ljungberg)
Joe Cole - Luis Garcia - Hleb (Trickster who pops up with a goal from time-to-time...wait, does Hleb even score?)
Robben - Kewell - Pires. (Whiny winger who everyone hates)

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I absolutely love this. You're equating players because of their nationality? Ignoring the falsely-implied inferiority of the Arsenal players for a moment, it would have made far more sense to put Diaby in with Makelele and Hamann, as his role in the team is nothing like Essien's.
And putting Ljungberg, a creative right winger, in the same category as two offensive midfielders who compensate for their respective teams' lack of proper goalscoring talent? Don't get me wrong, I'm not for a moment questioning the talent of Gerrard or Lampard, but just because Arsenal don't field that sort of midfielder doesn't mean you can throw in anyone you like just for the sake of a comparison.

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(Who would I compare Duff and Riise - guy who makes penetrating runs from the left, and has a powerful shot - to, anyway? Flamini? Help me out here!)

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Well, Robert Pires plays on the left, is a great dribbler and has scored more goals than those two put together this season, as well as a dozen in each of the two seasons prior.

It's difficult to refute that Chelsea are stronger than Arsenal in each of those categories (although that's hardly surprising, for obvious reasons), but your misguided loyalty to the unemployed car-thieves really shows here. To suggest that Harry Kewell is a better player than Robert Pires is laughable, and I wouldn't say Hamann is better than Gilberto either. You can't possibly judge Abou Diaby after such a short time at the club, but I'd say he's already the equal of Sissoko.

The fact is that this is all a matter of form. Liverpool are on a roll right now, and each of their players is performing to the very best of their ability. Conversely, Arsenal are stuck in a rut and the individual players are suffering as a result. But these are just ongoing trends. Liverpool were poor at the start of the season, even after a lengthy Champions' League qualification campgain to help their new players settle in. When their current hot streak wears off, then players like Sissoko or Kewell will begin to flag. Similarly, when Arsenal find their form again, the indiviuals in their side will start to flourish. The fact that there was only a single goal between the sides last week shows that an under-strength Arsenal side can still compete, and had that been a full Gunners' side, we would have been a match for Liverpool, bad form or not.

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It's all very well to blame the defensive injuries, but when you look at this comparison, that much more of a problem, and it is why you aren't going to finish in the top two. Arsenal have the worst player in all 6 comparisons. I'd be happier with Lennon, Davids, Carrick, Tainio, Jenas and Murphy than I would be with Arsenal's midfield, truth be told, but I can't really fit their players into the categories. :p

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I'm sorry to have ever doubted you, PsyPsy. You really are funny. :laugh:

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If you get a better midfield, you will no longer need to be a one-man show. (And don't you give me guff about Liverpool being a one-man Gerrard show, because frankly, I'd be more concerned if Xabi Alonso was injured than if Stevie G was. Heck, his injury last season is probably why we finished 5th.)

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Nah, the time when Liverpool lived and died by Steven Gerrard is long gone. However, your inconsistency and lack of attacking options last season was why you finished fifth. Nobody finishes behind Everton on bad luck alone. :p

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Originally Posted by Black Mage 121

You have a point there, but I think that there is more to the decision than mere trophy-hunting. If players were motivated entirely by silverware, Cole would've moved to Madrid ages ago, and Steven Gerrard would currently be wearing an ugly blue shirt.

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When did Madrid win anything recently?

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We could've recalled Hoyte, but that would mean he'd be unable to return to Sunderland, and once the crisis was over he'd have spent the rest of the season warming our subs' bench instead of gaining first-team experience.

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I think you can still loan players out to lower division teams outside of the transfer window. I know we loaned Zak Whitbread out to Millwall outside of it.

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How can you possibly say that Kewell has outperformed every single one of our midfielders? He' simply lucky to be surrounded by good players on a good run of form. In the matches I've seen, he's hardly been impressive, and certainly not good enough to make up for his history of abject failure at the club. And I still stand by the hair comment.

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If you're saying Liverpool's success has come from other players besides Kewell, then look at this. Fun for all! And that's just recent games. He's been top in many other previous games. All of this is voted for Liverpool fans, and you're not going to claim we're biased in favour of that guy (especially above Kop heroes like Gerrard or Carragher) after the abuse we gave him after the Champion's League. :) And as Liverpool's midfield has been performing at a much higher level than Arsenal's, I think that we may assume that the most in-form midfielder for Liverpool has been performing better than the most in-form midfielder for Arsenal. As for the hair, it's the third-worst in football, yeah. Only Claudio Caniggia and Carlos Puyol can beat Mr. Kewell.

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We should form a club!

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A Chelski dislike club? I think that's pretty much every football fan.

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Originally Posted by Cizzle

That's the kind of comment I'd expect from the football fan equivalent of West Brom. I still haven't gathered what exactly is so bad about Gilberto, and to criticise Cesc Fabregas after the kind of perfomances he's been putting in at age 18 is just plain foolish. As for Diaby, he's played six games, and has shown every sign of being the tough-tackling midfielder we need. Just because he isn't a big name doesn't mean he isn't any good. After all, who had heard of Patrick Vieira when he first joined the club?

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Oh now, no need to get personal. Gilberto can't tackle, can't pass, and looks lost. Look at him playing against Liverpool, if you want an example. I didn't criticise Fabregas, as I genuinely believe Zoltan Gera is a good player, and easily WBA's best.

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I absolutely love this. You're equating players because of their nationality? Ignoring the falsely-implied inferiority of the Arsenal players for a moment, it would have made far more sense to put Diaby in with Makelele and Hamann, as his role in the team is nothing like Essien's.
And putting Ljungberg, a creative right winger, in the same category as two offensive midfielders who compensate for their respective teams' lack of proper goalscoring talent? Don't get me wrong, I'm not for a moment questioning the talent of Gerrard or Lampard, but just because Arsenal don't field that sort of midfielder doesn't mean you can throw in anyone you like just for the sake of a comparison.

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Oh okay, it's very wrong and naughty to use nationalities to show how three Premiership sides have similar teams to each other. I'm sorry, Internet Police, please let me off with a caution this time. :rolleyes2

If you want to put Diaby in with Maka and the Kaiser, the point still stands: He's worse than both of them. But as it happens, he looks like he's going to be a nasty piece of work, just like Vieria was, and just like Essien and Sissoko are.

What do you think Steven Gerrard has been playing as this season if not a creative right winger? Perhaps a goalkeeper? Well, he'd probably be better at it than Ljungberg. And isn't he Arsenal's top midfield scorer, just like Gerrard and Lampard are for their respective clubs? I was going for that angle.

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Well, Robert Pires plays on the left, is a great dribbler and has scored more goals than those two put together this season, as well as a dozen in each of the two seasons prior.

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Robert Pires....great dribbler? I think you meant to type "diver" there. Also, might I add that there is more to being a footballer than scoring goals, incredible as it may seem.

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Originally Posted by Cz

It's difficult to refute that Chelsea are stronger than Arsenal in each of those categories (although that's hardly surprising, for obvious reasons), but your misguided loyalty to the unemployed car-thieves really shows here. To suggest that Harry Kewell is a better player than Robert Pires is laughable, and I wouldn't say Hamann is better than Gilberto either. You can't possibly judge Abou Diaby after such a short time at the club, but I'd say he's already the equal of Sissoko.

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Oh, another personal taunt about Liverpool. Wow, I'll bet your post will prove to be an objective and completely unbiased analysis! Pires better than Kewell? Dream on. Cast your mind back a few days ago to the Valentine's Day encounter. Who was the one pulling the opposition's defence apart, and who was the one standing around looking like he couldn't be arsed? Kewell has clearly had a much better season than Pires this season. As for Hamann vs Gilberto...now who is misguided? Honestly, that has to be a joke. Watch the second half of Liverpool v AC Milan. Watch him take one of the world's best, if not the world's best, playmakers, Kaka, to the cleaners. And what makes this even more incredible is that he was doing it with a broken bone in his foot (and he still took and scored a penalty with said foot in the shootout) Then come back and tell me Gilberto "Huh? What's going on?" Silva is superior. So...let me get this straight...you can't judge Diaby when he's only been there for a short time at the club, but already he's as good as Sissoko? Uh...you're judging him right there. :rolleyes2 As it happens, I'd be extremely surprised if he plays anywhere near as well as Sissoko has this season, as his performances have been immense.

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The fact is that this is all a matter of form. Liverpool are on a roll right now, and each of their players is performing to the very best of their ability. Conversely, Arsenal are stuck in a rut and the individual players are suffering as a result. But these are just ongoing trends. Liverpool were poor at the start of the season, even after a lengthy Champions' League qualification campgain to help their new players settle in. When their current hot streak wears off, then players like Sissoko or Kewell will begin to flag. Similarly, when Arsenal find their form again, the indiviuals in their side will start to flourish. The fact that there was only a single goal between the sides last week shows that an under-strength Arsenal side can still compete, and had that been a full Gunners' side, we would have been a match for Liverpool, bad form or not.

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No, all our players are not performing well. Look at the strikeforce! But still we manage to score from midfield. And Liverpool are currently fatigued, if it had escaped your notice, thanks largely to the Super Cup, WCC and FA Cup, not that I'd expect an Arsenal fan to know about the first two. :) Didn't you notice that Xabi Alonso was "flagging" (useful verb, thanks man) and had to be substituted? The fact that there was a single goal between two sides last week shows that a fatigued Liverpool with misfiring strikers can still completely dominate Arsenal, and that Jens Lehmann is a very good keeper, and is the only reason you're not further behind Spurs.

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I'm sorry to have ever doubted you, PsyPsy. You really are funny. :laugh:

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Thank you, thank you. For my next joke: The Arsenal Midfield!

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Nah, the time when Liverpool lived and died by Steven Gerrard is long gone. However, your inconsistency and lack of attacking options last season was why you finished fifth. Nobody finishes behind Everton on bad luck alone. :p

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For Everton, read Spurs. (The under-achieving inferior blue and white rivals...from ENGLAND no less, if I'm still allowed to compare nationalities) What will your excuse be? :)

Ok, having seen the last few posts degenerate into Liverpool bashing, I would like to interject:

On Arsenal: Cygan is dreadful, Flamini and Fabregas are too young, inexperienced and crap, their defence situation is partly to blame, Henry should leave before the ship sinks completely. Pires has been good in the past, but has struggled this season. They don't deserve to be in the Champions League next season, even though they probably will be.

On Liverpool: Harry Kewell is a nancy boy who has played well about 3 times in the last 2 years. He's scored a couple of reasonable goals, but is nowhere near as good as you're claiming. Your strikers suck, but I think you knew that already. Your defence and Stevie "16?17? goals" Gerrard are the reasons you've done so well this season.

On Chelsea: You're all just bitter cause we have players of far better talent than any of you. Especially Robben.

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Originally Posted by Pirate Wench HowlingMonkey

On Chelsea: You're all just bitter cause we have players of far better talent than any of you. Especially Robben an unlimited transfer fund.

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:D

Yeah, that too. :D

I'd just like to add that if Arsenal cloned Jens Lehmann 10 times and fielded a full 11 of Jens they'd be the greatest football team that ever set foot onto a pitch.

Edit: As it is they're not and Yeovil are far cooler than any of the teams previously mentioned in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Pirate Wench HowlingMonkey

On Arsenal: Cygan is dreadful, Flamini and Fabregas are too young, inexperienced and crap, their defence situation is partly to blame, Henry should leave before the ship sinks completely. Pires has been good in the past, but has struggled this season. They don't deserve to be in the Champions League next season, even though they probably will be.

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Flamini and especially Fabregas are brilliant. :)

They're young, but I wouldn't say TOO young -- Fabregas has quite a few matches under his belt, and when our defence was floundering and Flamini forced to play defender, I'm pretty sure he was the one who had played the most number of matches. Not that that's some spectacular feat, considering how inexperienced the defence had been at the time, but it's just to say that maybe comparatively, he's not so very inexperienced.

Defence situation is and was sad, but hopefully it should improve soon, with the return of Eboue and Toure and some healed injuries? I know it didn't help much the Liverpool game, but Eboue and Toure had just gotten back then, and so probably not up to their best. With any luck, the ship won't sink completely. Everyone sounds like this is the end of the world -- it hardly is. There's still...what...12? games to go in the EPL, and we're not out of the CL yet. Oh, and anyone who manages to qualify for the Champions League, I think, deserves to be there.

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Originally Posted by Pirate Wench HowlingMonkey

On Liverpool: Harry Kewell is a nancy boy who has played well about 3 times in the last 2 years. He's scored a couple of reasonable goals, but is nowhere near as good as you're claiming. Your strikers suck, but I think you knew that already. Your defence and Stevie "16?17? goals" Gerrard are the reasons you've done so well this season.

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Nah, trust me: He's played very well (by his standards, at least) this season presumably because he wants to get into the World Cup.

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On Chelsea: You're all just bitter cause we have players of far better talent than any of you. Especially Robben.

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Robben? Pssh, Joe Cole is better than him. I think Mr. Heath addressed the rest of this issue. ;)

I find it comical that you call Harry Kewell a Nancy boy when Robben runs like the campest Dale Winton clone in the world

I wouldn't say crisis but it's bad. The word crisis is floated about too much. Man Utd lose one game & everyone brings out the coffin.

Arsenal are having a bad season, and as much as I HATE THEM, they're a good footballing side & will improve. It's a transitional period now, out with the old guard, bring in the new.

This happens with every top side. there is usually a period of re-building after 10 years top flight.

This is United's 'crisis' period. we're 2nd in the premiership. If this is a crisis, I think I can live through it.

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Originally Posted by Cuchulainn

I HATE THEM

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:heart:

Pssh. You lot and your teams that do well. I do think that "crisis" is a bit of an over-reaction in all seriousness. What's a disaster? Finishing a weekend in 11th?

Cuchulainn: 2nd is about the best most can hope for until Mourinho decides to buy Exeter and choose their reserve side as his starting 11 every weekend.

Nah, going out of three cup competitions in the space of a month ;)

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

Nah, going out of three cup competitions in the space of a month ;)

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Who went out of 3 cup competitions in a month?

Neverton. Or maybe it was out of 3 by October. Either way, ouch. :p

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

Neverton.

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My colleague in work just called you a c88t. For some unholy reason he likes the Toffeemen.

We're too cool for Europe :(

Edit: Please give your colleague a high five on my behalf.

Ps. Everton mints are nice.

Edit 2: Champion's League - August
UEFA Cup - September
Carling Cup - October
FA Cup - February
4th - Last season
Bitter - Always =P

This is just what EoFF needed: A football banter thread.

Now let's all insult Newcastle. Boumsong, hahaha.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

This is just what EoFF needed: A football banter thread.

Now let's all insult Newcastle. Boumsong, hahaha.

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I miss Graeme Souness. He was the one man capable of achieving my dream: getting Newcastle relegated.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

This is just what EoFF needed: A football banter thread.

Now let's all insult Newcastle. Boumsong, hahaha.

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Why bother when their own players are willing to do it themselves?

If it wasn't for Shay Given and Scott Parker, and maybe Michael "Oh my, I've been injured and will be back just in time to get in a run of games before the World Cup. How unfortunate!" Owen, they'd be below Birmingham at least.

"arise sir alan you have been knighted"

No way. Any team with Emile Heskey is scientifically proved to suck 73% more than if it was Heskeyless. This is clearly Steve Bruce's problem.

There's also the fact that he's an idiot. Bruce that is, not Heskey. I'm sure Emile is in actuality a genius, who could've gone on to be a university professor (he'd look very dapper in a tweed jacket) but knew he'd make more money as a lazy footballer instead.

speaking of university is it true that Adrian Mutu holds a Masters in Mathematics?

If by "Mathematics" you mean "cocaine", then definitely.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

If it wasn't for Shay Given and Scott Parker, and maybe Michael "Oh my, I've been injured and will be back just in time to get in a run of games before the World Cup. How unfortunate!" Owen, they'd be below Birmingham at least.

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We'll try and beat them for you next week.

No way man, Birmingham have got DJ CAMPBELL! He was that one who played for yeading against Newcastle last season. I can see him getting into the World Cup the way he's going!

P.S I love Mika Richards with all my heart but Darius Vassell makes me angry

Edit: Mika Richards got my heart 25% for saving us from a travesty and 75% for then saying "F**kin" on Live National television

DJ Campbell's real name is Derek. I can't help but be amused.

And yes, god bless that little bundle of love, Micah Richards, if only because he has the highest squad number ever. What the hell is with half the City team having their numbers over 40 anyway, Dan?

i believe i can field that one.
You see whenever a player gets some time on the pitch he gets a little bit of recognition. Given that he plays well die-hard fans will wanna buy a shirt with his name on it, thus leading to extra cash if there are more number's or letters in his name. Kapisch?

He's not as bad as that crazy Turkish guy with a number 77. What exactly made him think that would be cool?

That would be Coco and isn't he Italian
Anyway I think Portugal's ex number one keeper Vitor Baia had 99 on his shirt, what makes him so special to do that?
The cheek of some people!

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Originally Posted by Port Regulator mobiletype

That would be Coco and isn't he Italian

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Wasn't thinking of Coco, but it's a stupid number regardless of who wears it. This isn't ice hockey. :mad:

There are several Italians with numbers like 60, 75, 99, stuff like that. The joys of having an Italian Master League side in PES5 :D (All fell to Lecce's wrath, and the now-destroyed Alan Smith was my captain.)

And according to said game, Greek clubs like to give the number 1 to outfield players.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

There are several Italians with numbers like 60, 75, 99, stuff like that. The joys of having an Italian Master League side in PES5 :D (All fell to Lecce's wrath, and the now-destroyed Alan Smith was my captain.)

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The coolness of choosing Lecce is totally offset by the other thing. But yeah, all those Italians are stupid. :p

I only chose them because I thought they had the coolest kit. It's sort of like Melchester Rovers. And hey, it's better than when I had Andy Johnson up front...speaking of the which, he's a perfect example of Bruce's stupidity. He traded him as makeweight for Clinton Morrison to Palace, being valued at £750,000, and later tried to buy him back for £6m.

And with Smith gone, I think that's also Man Utd's last capable central midfielder gone. Before anyone suggests Fletcher, note the word "capable". Looks like we might finish second after all.

and cupless too:D

I think 2nd and cupless is better than 5th (or 4th if you're lucky) and cupless. :p

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

I only chose them because I thought they had the coolest kit. It's sort of like Melchester Rovers. And hey, it's better than when I had Andy Johnson up front...speaking of the which, he's a perfect example of Bruce's stupidity. He traded him as makeweight for Clinton Morrison to Palace, being valued at £750,000, and later tried to buy him back for £6m.

And with Smith gone, I think that's also Man Utd's last capable central midfielder gone. Before anyone suggests Fletcher, note the word "capable". Looks like we might finish second after all.

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I Resent That. We have Giggs, Richardson & Ronaldo. If you mean capable defensive midfielder...then I concede.

Liverpool have always had this tendency to implode & are as blunt as that girlyman who sings about Love & heartbreak, with the exception of Saturday, where our players managed to leave their brains behind, Liverpool have not shown they are in any way better than us. 1-0 from a header that took 2 posts to go in is hardly a massive humiliation.

Still, Benitez has worked wonders there and they are back up where history says they should be.

Hopefully United will get Duscher in the summer. All will be great, he's a fantastic player.

INCIDENTILLY, Ronaldo has hinted he wants to leave Real. Think he'll go to blighty?

Giggs, Richardson and Ronaldo are all better off on the wing, though.

As for the other Ronaldo, well, I bet Chelski will be sniffing around him.

Duscher?
That names rings a bell
Didn't he get sent off at Old Trafford for breaking David Beckham's toe?
Jeez you're desperate

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Originally Posted by Port Regulator mobiletype

Duscher?
That names rings a bell
Didn't he get sent off at Old Trafford for breaking David Beckham's toe?
Jeez you're desperate

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He did. I don't believe he got sent off & why in HELL is that desperate? You make avbout as much sense as a deaf drunk Albanian singing God Save The Queen.

you are desperate in the sense that you're willing to sign somebody who got booed off the pitch by your very own fans and he did get sent off by the way (you can do all the research you want but you can't prove me wrong on that basis). Plus your can eat your own words on that drunk Albanian since your spelling isn't exactly top-notch

The amount of Newcastle hate in this thread makes me sad. :(

Haha, don't worry about it Jess. I think there's been hate directed towards every English team that has made it into the Champion's League (as it is now) other than Leeds and Blackburn.

Blackburn are dirty bastards.

Hahahahahahahaha. Leeds. :laugh:

Okay, make that every English team that has made it into the Champion's League. :)

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

I think 2nd and cupless is better than 5th (or 4th if you're lucky) and cupless. :p

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Ooh, take that, Tottenham Hotspur! :p

Melchester Rovers 4 lief, BTW. I'm so creating them. :D

Didn't Spurs win that Peace Cup thing in Korea?

I have a Roy of the Rovers annual somewhere. It featured the future of football, with women's football being as big as men's football (The World Cup final was between the women of England, featuring Roy Race's great great great grandaughter Camel or something like that, vs Mandelaland (South Africa)) and in men's football, the league was made up of teams from all around the world. The Nairobi Rhinos were relegated, I think, and although North London Aces (A mixture of Spurs, Arsenal and, bizarrely, Barnet) won the league, Melchester Rovers won the first ever Moon Cup.

Oh Roy. :love:

Psy i honestly have no idea what you're talking about :confused:

>>> *watching Arsenal vs Real Madrid* (champions league)
Im not a madrid fan but I want them to win this match..

What a freaking relief! It's nice to be reassured that however low our confidence might be at the moment, we're still capable of playing good football. Our best performance of the season, without a doubt.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

I have a Roy of the Rovers annual somewhere. It featured the future of football, with women's football being as big as men's football (The World Cup final was between the women of England, featuring Roy Race's great great great grandaughter Camel or something like that, vs Mandelaland (South Africa)) and in men's football, the league was made up of teams from all around the world. The Nairobi Rhinos were relegated, I think, and although North London Aces (A mixture of Spurs, Arsenal and, bizarrely, Barnet) won the league, Melchester Rovers won the first ever Moon Cup.

Oh Roy. :love:

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I subsist mainly on the old-skool thrills of my dad's 1963 album, where the Melchester gang must compete with the testing demands of a new authoritarian trainer with a pencil moustache!

Oh come on, winning the Champion's League to hide a disappointing domestic season (5th!)? It's been done! Then again, we'll probably finish second and win the FA Cup, so y'know. :p

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Originally Posted by Cz

I subsist mainly on the old-skool thrills of my dad's 1963 album, where the Melchester gang must compete with the testing demands of a new authoritarian trainer with a pencil moustache!

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The main Roy story in my annual was where the Rovers faced a nasty Italian team, in one of those new-fangled European thingamajiggies, who wore the same kit as the national side. After the Rovers go ahead, the Italians target their goalkeeper with dirty tricks, until he is forced to go off injured, and Roy dons the green jersey. In the last minute, the Italians get a penalty, and their star striker steps up to take it. Roy eyeballs him, and in a way that oddly foreshadows Roberto Baggio in the '94 World Cup final (He even has a ponytail, I think), the guy skies it, and then weeps.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

The main Roy story in my annual was where the Rovers faced a nasty Italian team, in one of those new-fangled European thingamajiggies, who wore the same kit as the national side. After the Rovers go ahead, the Italians target their goalkeeper with dirty tricks, until he is forced to go off injured, and Roy dons the green jersey. In the last minute, the Italians get a penalty, and their star striker steps up to take it. Roy eyeballs him, and in a way that oddly foreshadows Roberto Baggio in the '94 World Cup final (He even has a ponytail, I think), the guy skies it, and then weeps.

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Those pesky foreigners! I remember a story from a more recent annual where the Rovers went into a penalty shoot-out with a French goalkeeper who could hypnotise his opponents. Of course, it was all dirty cheating mindgames, and Roy proved it by overcoming intimidation and scoring the winning penalty with good old-fashioned British grit!

P.S. This is totally my sig/avatar after the elections. :D

Signing someone who injured a former player in a tackle is desperate? What planet are you on kid?

To Psy...WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU'LL DO BOTH?? I've learned NEVER be a cocky bastard in football. Because fate always kills you. We're currently 2nd, and it will take a balls up by us as opposed to Liverpool playing well for that to change.

Regarding the FA Cup. That thing is a lottery. Anything can happen & nothing is certain.

On the European Cup results. Arsenal (SCUM%$^) secretly impressed me. They outplayed a Madrid side vastly superior to the one before November. And Liverpool (SCUM%$£) where VERY unlucky to lose. Yet again their bluntness up front paid dearly.

Great football tonight from a neutrals perspective.

I don't think we'll do both, it's called joking around. If you'll notice, I was trying to show how the fates of Liverpool and Arsenal had swapped. :p

But if you want to mention the FA Cup, since 1992, only once has a team outside the "Big 4" has won it, and that was Everton in 1995...a team that came 4th last year. It'd be a surprise if Chelsea or Liverpool didn't win it, going by that kind of form.

Anyway, www.royoftherovers.com YES!

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

Anyway, www.royoftherovers.com YES!

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xDDDDDD

The Spandau Ballet special.

Well, they certainly had the hair for it. (Emlyn Hughes and Bob Wilson, haha, classic)

Anyway, "On this day in 1976 - Trevor Cassidy anxious to fill the void left by the departure of Jumbo Trudgeon makes his debut for the Rovers against Second Division Hansfield in the first leg of the League Cup semi-final."

Jumbo Trudgeon? That's the best name I've ever heard!

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

Well, they certainly had the hair for it. (Emlyn Hughes and Bob Wilson, haha, classic)

Anyway, "On this day in 1976 - Trevor Cassidy anxious to fill the void left by the departure of Jumbo Trudgeon makes his debut for the Rovers against Second Division Hansfield in the first leg of the League Cup semi-final."

Jumbo Trudgeon? That's the best name I've ever heard!

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Let's not be too hasty. What about the legend that is Jonjo Dickman?

Don't forget Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink. Longest I've heard atleast