Try this riddle out.

I expect it figured out by the time I wake up...

The Riddle:

Covered with sackcloth vile they seemed to me,
And one sustained the other with his shoulder,
And all of them were by the bank sustained.
But taken from me was this drowsiness
Suddenly by a people, that behind
Our backs already had come round to us.
Even as our eye did not uplift itself
Aloft, being fastened upon earthly things,
So justice here has merged it in the earth.
Appeared to me with laden and living boughs
Another apple-tree, and not far distant,
From having but just then turned thitherward.
And I, who stood intent upon beholding,
Saw people mudbesprent in that lagoon,
All of them naked and with angry look.
Shadows borne onward by the aforesaid stress.
Whereupon said I: Master, who are those
People, whom the black air so castigates?
And he to me: The grievous quality
Of this their torment bows them so to earth,
That my own eyes at first contended with it;

If its not figured out by the (i was gonna say morning, but it is for me already), I will give a single clue.

I don't understand these words:

Sackcloth
sustain
drowsiness
aloft
laden
thitherward
mudbesprent
borne
castigates.

Worst riddle ever. :(

^_____^

*waits for riddle master Lenna to take a guess*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Levian

I don't understand these words:

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Sackcloth - cloth made from a sack?
sustain - how long something can go at it (NOT sexing :tongue: )
drowsiness - how tired you are
aloft - floating, staying in the air
laden - weighed down by something
thitherward - :confused:
mudbesprent - :confused:
borne - erm...born? :confused:
castigates.- :confused:

^^ dunno if that helps :P

EDIT...so like it sounds like a poem NOT a riddle x__x what is it asking?

I AM GOD!

wrong Bert.

he heh heh, Im gonna looooove these next few days...

I dont get it what does mudbesprent mean.

It's not a real word.

I hope you dont figure it out TO soon....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by boris no no

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Levian

I don't understand these words:

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borne - erm...born? :confused:

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Borne as in "the weight of the bags was borne by the mule." In the riddle, "borne onward" means roughly "carried onward."

What am I trying to figure out?

A clue *gives it away*


Envy.....

Ok im thinking on this but what ive come up with so far is probably incorrect.

"Covered with sackcloth vile they seemed to me" People who usually are in sackcloth are traditionally either poor, repenting for something or are humbling themselves.

"Appeared to me with laden and living boughs
Another apple-tree..." sounds like an allusion to the forbidden tree from the garden of Eden. So this passage is probably talking about forbidden fruit.

Ok "thither" can mean to a place, point, end, result, being on the farther side from the person speaking, or can be applied to time: n the thither side of, older than; of more years than. So the phrase "From having but just then turned thitherward" can be about turning away from someone, looking to the past, or the narrator has just gotten a new goal.

"Saw people mudbesprent in that lagoon". Ok mudbesprent. Mud is well mud. Besprent means sprinkled over or stewed. So mud stew, yummy. I guess that mudbesprent could also be a creative term for burial. So people buried in a lagoon:confused: .

Ok the definition of a castigator is one who castigates or corrects. So castigate=correct. But that doesnt make sense with the rest of the phrase. I think that in the context of "People, whom the black air so castigates?" castigates means corrects. So People whom the black air so corrects ?

Your clue is not helping me much and this is all i can think of at the moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by look_out_below

Ok the definition of a castigator is one who castigates or corrects. So castigate=correct. But that doesnt make sense with the rest of the phrase. I think that in the context of "People, whom the black air so castigates?" castigates means corrects. So People whom the black air so corrects ?

Your clue is not helping me much and this is all i can think of at the moment.

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Castigates is closer to Punishes than Corrects. But, I'll take another look at this riddle later, gotta go to work. :(

Take a long shot guess, but Pandora's box.. Pandora, something around there. Sending the sins down to earth?

Or angels who have sinned and fallen from grace because they were tempted..

And im back to try and add some more, probably incorrect things, to what has already been put down.

This could be about enslavement. Narrator starts off looking at the people in sackcloth as another race; slaves were often viewed by their masters as being a completely different race then them. By the end of the poem the narrator is now calling someone else Master implying he is enslaved. The poem inbetween these two parts is about the narrator being confronted, defeated, captured and inslaved by an enemy.
The people bowing to earth also reinforce the idea of slavery because it sounds like they are being bent over by a heavy weight. Like something they would have to carry or pull if inslaved.

I hope i am right in what i have thought so far.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bipper

What am I trying to figure out?

---

I agree.

Each three line block is from a different Canto from Dante's Purgatory and Inferno, and it's not even following the right order. :p
It's going:
Purgatory XIII (The Second Circle: The Envious. Sapia of Siena)
Purgatory XVIII (Virgil further discourses of Love and Free Will. The Abbot of San Zeno)
Purgatory XIX (Dante's Dream of the Siren. The Fifth Circle: The Avaricious and Prodigal. Pope Adrian V)
Purgatory XXIV (Buonagiunta da Lucca. Pope Martin IV, and others. Inquiry into the State of Poetry)
Inferno 7 (4th Circle of Hell)
Inferno 5 (2nd Circle of Hell)
Purgatory X (The Needle's Eye. The First Circle: The Proud. The Sculptures on the Wall)

Very good Endless. You seem to be on the right track there. I was going to add that it also seems to me like perhaps The Son and The Father (He Who Is Called I Am) are looking down from Heaven at the miserable folk down here. The Angels in particular at one point held great disdain for Mankind. I am probably not nearly as close as you are here, but thought I should throw in some more food for thought. I feel pity for anyone here who may not be somewhat familiar with Judeo/Christian mythology and Dante's writings about the Afterlife.

How about a specific question as to what we're supposed to identify in this riddle, eh Tsukasa? Is it the narrator, the Master, the People, all of the above, the whole riddle? :confused:

It's definitely a diety or a holy being who is saying this. My first thoughts are that of God (not likely), the Devil (very unlikely), or Angels.

But only because I do not intuitively think of the Holy Trinity as One (wow I had to force myself to capitalise all of that).

And yeah, I can't determine what the riddle is asking of us either :confused:

Is it something you can eat?:tongue:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Endless

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bipper

What am I trying to figure out?

---

I agree.

Each three line block is from a different Canto from Dante's Purgatory and Inferno, and it's not even following the right order. :p
It's going:
Purgatory XIII (The Second Circle: The Envious. Sapia of Siena)
Purgatory XVIII (Virgil further discourses of Love and Free Will. The Abbot of San Zeno)
Purgatory XIX (Dante's Dream of the Siren. The Fifth Circle: The Avaricious and Prodigal. Pope Adrian V)
Purgatory XXIV (Buonagiunta da Lucca. Pope Martin IV, and others. Inquiry into the State of Poetry)
Inferno 7 (4th Circle of Hell)
Inferno 5 (2nd Circle of Hell)
Purgatory X (The Needle's Eye. The First Circle: The Proud. The Sculptures on the Wall)

---

I completley agree, as the imagry and such is fairly vivid and less obscured, as riddles often are. Are we trying to figure out what the people are, where they are, who the master is? The objective is not clearly stated, it is implied.

Also, the gemeral flow seems inconsistant and the punctuation is lapse (which makes it hard to understand the connotation of the verses). This leads me to belive these may have been intentional, and
Endless is right, or damn close.

Knowing you, I was going the guess MMORPG before I even read it :p

Bipper

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avarice-ness

Take a long shot guess, but Pandora's box.. Pandora, something around there. Sending the sins down to earth?

Or angels who have sinned and fallen from grace because they were tempted..

---

so far Avarice-ness is the closest one.

extremely close....


she actually said a part of the answer.

Quote:

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Purgatory XIII (The Second Circle: The Envious. Sapia of Siena)
Purgatory XVIII (Virgil further discourses of Love and Free Will. The Abbot of San Zeno)
Purgatory XIX (Dante's Dream of the Siren. The Fifth Circle: The Avaricious and Prodigal. Pope Adrian V)
Purgatory XXIV (Buonagiunta da Lucca. Pope Martin IV, and others. Inquiry into the State of Poetry)
Inferno 7 (4th Circle of Hell)
Inferno 5 (2nd Circle of Hell)
Purgatory X (The Needle's Eye. The First Circle: The Proud. The Sculptures on the Wall)

---

Endless subliminally said a part of the answer (by this I mean, avarice said a part, and Endless's post sort of represents the other part of the answer).

your almost there folks, checking back tomorow morning.

edit: in fact, I have just noticed that when I quoted Endless, that I gave another clue.

Speaking of riddles. Whatever happened to Del Snizz' christmas riddle? Did we find christmas or what? :confused:

going on a wild guess but is it a green box xD

ARe you simply saying they are the damned?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Levian

Speaking of riddles. Whatever happened to Del Snizz' christmas riddle? Did we find christmas or what? :confused:

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I was wondering the same, IT has been chewing at the back of my mind and festering. I was going to solve it, but I took a Hiatas as I frantically got ready for the season.

Bipper

getting there, sort of around that.

I am looking for 2 words. *gives away another*

Lost Souls? Satan's Army? Pandora's Bowl? Flying Mullet's Tea set? (damn... thats four words.)

or condemned souls? The wicked? Hell's Angels? Fried Chickens?

Adam's fall in the Garden of Eden? Or Lucifer's Fall casting out from God (along with his other angels) because of his avarice for power?

*nopes all of them*

:\

I might as well say the answer, cause it will sound lame if I say it later....

Cain and Abel?

um.. Babylonian King...


Is it biblical at all?

If not, then it must be the greek guy who could turn anything to gold by touching it.

You can if you want, but I don't think this was lame. Honestly, my mind was awhirl over the possible answers for a good hour this afternoon. I am curious to know the answer, since basically somebody's gotten it even if it isn't the exact phrase...

you people all get so close then swurve away from the obvious.


edit: I will now only post to give away a clue. or if the answer is correct.

Is it the story of Joseph helping the Pharoah? where as the master isn't pharoah, but rather Joseph, because he reiied on joseph to answer his ominous dreams?

Is it about me?

:D

Not helpful I know but I have no idea where the answers are going.
Still seems rather obscure to me

... Pandora's Box.

If I said it, and it's two words that has to be the only liable two words in there. X x
Well crud, now I can think about is something to the extent of hell being on earth, with the sins of man are technically man itself. I THINK TO DEEP. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsukasa

Covered with sackcloth vile they seemed to me,
And one sustained the other with his shoulder,
And all of them were by the bank sustained.
But taken from me was this drowsiness
Suddenly by a people, that behind
Our backs already had come round to us.
Even as our eye did not uplift itself
Aloft, being fastened upon earthly things,
So justice here has merged it in the earth.
Appeared to me with laden and living boughs
Another apple-tree, and not far distant,
From having but just then turned thitherward.
And I, who stood intent upon beholding,
Saw people mudbesprent in that lagoon,
All of them naked and with angry look.
Shadows borne onward by the aforesaid stress.
Whereupon said I: Master, who are those
People, whom the black air so castigates?
And he to me: The grievous quality
Of this their torment bows them so to earth,
That my own eyes at first contended with it;

---

I believe I may have it. I came across this while doing some looking into the bible stories that may fit.

The prophet Jeremiah talks about his experience watching the punishment of those he feels sorry for due to the famine that god has put upon them:

Jeremiah 14:1
The word of the LORD that came to Jeremiah concerning the dearth.
Jeremiah 14:2
Judah mourneth, and the gates thereof languish; they are black unto the ground; and the cry of Jerusalem is gone up. [the use of the word black leads me to understand that this may be a link. The black air would be in reference to the fact there is no rain, leaving dust and hunger lurking in the air. Also referencing to death.]


Jeremiah 14:3
And their nobles have sent their little ones to the waters: they came to the pits, and found no water; they returned with their vessels empty; they were ashamed and confounded, and covered their heads. [This paragraph leads me to believe it has something to do with the fact they are all by the bank in the riddle. They continue to return in hope of the water returning, therefore sustaining their visits.]

Jeremiah 14:11
Then said the LORD unto me, Pray not for this people for their good.
[This line is what leads me to believe that Jeremiah felt sorry for the people within the torment of the famine. That God had to tell him of their bad deeds to make him understand why he was forcing his punishments on them.]

Jeremiah 15:1
Then said the LORD unto me, Though Moses and Samuel stood before me, yet my mind could not be toward this people: cast them out of my sight, and let them go forth. [This paragraph gives me the impression that god does not want to view his creations, and then casts on his feelings towards Jeremiah, trying to make him despise these people for their sins.]

Jeremiah 16:3
For thus saith the LORD concerning the sons and concerning the daughters that are born in this place, and concerning their mothers that bare them, and concerning their fathers that begat them in this land;
Jeremiah 16:4
They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcases shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth. [These last paragraphs show the intent of Gods punishment. Which in the riddle he speaks of the grevious quality of their torment bows them to this earth. Again referring back to the famine they are struggling to cope with.]

Edit: This last paragraph can also refer to the torment of the earth thing. As he said they shall be dung on the face of the earth if dead, leaving them to be the worlds scum tormenting and disturbing the peace of the city itself.

I really hope this is it I spent ages looking through bible stories and this is the only one that fits the riddle.

this is lame. lenna suxorz! LOL I WIN

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lenna

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsukasa

Covered with sackcloth vile they seemed to me,
And one sustained the other with his shoulder,
And all of them were by the bank sustained.
But taken from me was this drowsiness
Suddenly by a people, that behind
Our backs already had come round to us.
Even as our eye did not uplift itself
Aloft, being fastened upon earthly things,
So justice here has merged it in the earth.
Appeared to me with laden and living boughs
Another apple-tree, and not far distant,
From having but just then turned thitherward.
And I, who stood intent upon beholding,
Saw people mudbesprent in that lagoon,
All of them naked and with angry look.
Shadows borne onward by the aforesaid stress.
Whereupon said I: Master, who are those
People, whom the black air so castigates?
And he to me: The grievous quality
Of this their torment bows them so to earth,
That my own eyes at first contended with it;

---

I believe I may have it. I came across this while doing some looking into the bible stories that may fit.

The prophet Jeremiah talks about his experience watching the punishment of those he feels sorry for due to the famine that god has put upon them:

Jeremiah 14:1
The word of the LORD that came to Jeremiah concerning the dearth.
Jeremiah 14:2
Judah mourneth, and the gates thereof languish; they are black unto the ground; and the cry of Jerusalem is gone up. [the use of the word black leads me to understand that this may be a link. The black air would be in reference to the fact there is no rain, leaving dust and hunger lurking in the air. Also referencing to death.]


Jeremiah 14:3
And their nobles have sent their little ones to the waters: they came to the pits, and found no water; they returned with their vessels empty; they were ashamed and confounded, and covered their heads. [This paragraph leads me to believe it has something to do with the fact they are all by the bank in the riddle. They continue to return in hope of the water returning, therefore sustaining their visits.]

Jeremiah 14:11
Then said the LORD unto me, Pray not for this people for their good.
[This line is what leads me to believe that Jeremiah felt sorry for the people within the torment of the famine. That God had to tell him of their bad deeds to make him understand why he was forcing his punishments on them.]

Jeremiah 15:1
Then said the LORD unto me, Though Moses and Samuel stood before me, yet my mind could not be toward this people: cast them out of my sight, and let them go forth. [This paragraph gives me the impression that god does not want to view his creations, and then casts on his feelings towards Jeremiah, trying to make him despise these people for their sins.]

Jeremiah 16:3
For thus saith the LORD concerning the sons and concerning the daughters that are born in this place, and concerning their mothers that bare them, and concerning their fathers that begat them in this land;
Jeremiah 16:4
They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcases shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth. [These last paragraphs show the intent of Gods punishment. Which in the riddle he speaks of the grevious quality of their torment bows them to this earth. Again referring back to the famine they are struggling to cope with.]

Edit: This last paragraph can also refer to the torment of the earth thing. As he said they shall be dung on the face of the earth if dead, leaving them to be the worlds scum tormenting and disturbing the peace of the city itself.

I really hope this is it I spent ages looking through bible stories and this is the only one that fits the riddle.

---

your answer is????

Jeremiah! and the famine of Jerusalem

2 word answer.... >_> <_<

another clue:

Avarice

Cardinal Sins :S? or capital vices?

Fallen Babylon the adultress of the church.

It comes from Dante Alighieri's Divine Comedy, in the Purgatory section n.n:D

:moomba:

Duck? Or smurf?:confused: Or Seven?:D

still not an answer :D *deletes previous clue*

Original Sin. Was commited by Eve in the Garden of Eden.

almost there... -_-.....

some says half an answer, the other says another half... some way or another.

The Seven Deadly Sins? But Lenna already said that when she said Cardinal/Capitala Sins. They are three different names for the same thing...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dignified Pauper

If not, then it must be the greek guy who could turn anything to gold by touching it.

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His name was Midas and he was granted that power by Dionysis I believe.

*thinks more*

Avarice and Envy...and something to do with bringing sin into the world...The Fall of Man was it, so does the Original Sin.

Guess: Seven Sins, though it is only another way to say what Lenna had already guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ramza Beoulve

It comes from Dante Alighieri's Divine Comedy, in the Purgatory section n.n:D

:moomba:

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Actually, not only. As I posted, it's from both the Purgatory and Inferno sections.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Endless

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ramza Beoulve

It comes from Dante Alighieri's Divine Comedy, in the Purgatory section n.n:D

:moomba:

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Actually, not only. As I posted, it's from both the Purgatory and Inferno sections.

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Yeah, thanks, I really not put attention in the Inferno section n.nU, but at least, we agree that it is from Divine Comedy n.n

ME!
I mean.. the seven deadly Sins?
Maybe I'm looking at this wrong.. Because I'm looking at it through the Idea's of Pandora's box and how the Seven sins went, and since your naming the seven sins I should just bust it.
Rage/Wrath, Avarice/Greed, Vanity/Pride, Lust, Glottony, Sloth.
All that was left was Hope. Man being the hope to triumph over it's own sin..
Am I getting close?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avarice-ness

ME!
I mean.. the seven deadly Sins?
Maybe I'm looking at this wrong.. Because I'm looking at it through the Idea's of Pandora's box and how the Seven sins went, and since your naming the seven sins I should just bust it.
Rage/Wrath, Avarice/Greed, Vanity/Pride, Lust, Glottony, Sloth.
All that was left was Hope. Man being the hope to triumph over it's own sin..
Am I getting close?

---

On an interesting note, the fact that hope was stuck under the lid is viewed as a good thing to the Hellenistic peoples.

That's from Canto. I hate to admit it, but I can't figure this riddle, being agrudis of very little brain. So I'll sing Cottleston Pie, instead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Summoner of Leviathan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avarice-ness

ME!
I mean.. the seven deadly Sins?
Maybe I'm looking at this wrong.. Because I'm looking at it through the Idea's of Pandora's box and how the Seven sins went, and since your naming the seven sins I should just bust it.
Rage/Wrath, Avarice/Greed, Vanity/Pride, Lust, Glottony, Sloth.
All that was left was Hope. Man being the hope to triumph over it's own sin..
Am I getting close?

---

On an interesting note, the fact that hope was stuck under the lid is viewed as a good thing to the Hellenistic peoples.

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I didn't mean it as a bad thing. =]
I'm just trying to figure out what I said that is basically it. x x
Other then Deadly Sins, Pandora's Box... Two words...
Maybe about Falling grace? Falling from Grace. Hmmm..

Your answers are to answerish.

the answer specifically was Seven Sins.

but yeah, good work :)


see.... simple.....

So what to do now?

thread is free to be whatevered....



or I could annoy people even more by putting together a harder riddle.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tsukasa

Your answers are to answerish.

the answer specifically was Seven Sins.

but yeah, good work :)


see.... simple.....

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So did I win? I just added Deadly infront of that. xD
God I love sins. O o;; *The Greedy*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avarice-ness

God I love sins. O o;;

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Telling God you love sinning isn't really the smartest thing to do.

lol - I feel used, as I am still pondering what the hell the question was :) lol BTW, Cardnal sins are the same.

That's not fair Tsukasa, The Seven Deadly sins are not classed as the seven sins. They are known as the Seven Deadly Sins, the only "two words" related to that are Cardinal sins or the Capital Vices.

That was very unfair of you :(

Yeah 'cause technically there's alot of sins out there. Depending on which belief, but no arguments here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mittopotahis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avarice-ness

God I love sins. O o;;

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Telling God you love sinning isn't really the smartest thing to do.

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Uhm... I'm agnostic. :)