"What's happened to the once great american movie industury?"

I love it when people say something along these lines. Every time a bad movie comes out, or a movie doesn't live up to thier expectations, they run around and cry and say "Hollywood is out of ideas!" or "Movies are ll awful nowadays!"

As if no crappy movies have been made up until now.

Bad movies have always been made. Since the beginning. Not all movies can be gems. The classic movies you see from long ago are gems within . You don't realize that there were movies back then because they all fade from memory. It looks like every move from back then was a classic because that's the only movies we see from back then. Nobody saved the awful ones. Nobody's showing the crap movies on AMC. Don't look at all the bad movies running around. Look at the good ones.

So yeah. Shut up.

Yes, but the frequency of bad movies has increased. They really HAVE run out of ideas, since last year, there were no new movies. I of course, am a fan of the cliche, so as long as the movie is good, I couldn't care about new. If you don't want to watch it, don't.

Of course, people these days are wimps. They expect everything to be handed to them, as though you never had to earn anything anymore. Yeah, you encounter enemies in an Airship in FFIIIj... you can't even GET to the area otherwise. OMG I GET RIBBON! Can't handle berserk/confusion/poison in FFX... OMG FFX-2 is hard!

Seriously...


I agree for the most part.

What's happened to all the Scorcese's,Kubrick's,Ford's,Capras,Woody Allen's,Coppola's and Spike Lee's of the american film industury?.

Here's an example of the films hollywood has produced recently-

Scary Movie 1,2,3 +4 :mad:
Dude, wheres my car :mad2:
I know what you did last summer :mad:
Body Shots :mad2:
Charlie's Angels :mad2: :mad2:

If you wanna watch a good movie now, you've got to watch a european or japanese movie.

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Originally Posted by The Void

What's happened to all the Scorcese's,Kubrick's,Ford's,Capras,Woody Allen's,Coppola's and Spike Lee's of the american film industury?.

Here's an example of the films hollywood has produced recently-

Scary Movie 1,2,3 +4 :mad:
Dude, wheres my car :mad2:
I know what you did last summer :mad:
Body Shots :mad2:
Charlie's Angels :mad2: :mad2:

If you wanna watch a good movie now, you've got to watch a european or japanese movie.

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You named 5 movies. I am sorry but there are more movies than the ones that come out in theatres.

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Originally Posted by Ballistix Man

You named 5 movies. I am sorry but there are more movies than the ones that come out in theatres.

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I'd say it's exactly the problem with "Hollywood" now. I'm sure there are a lot of talented scenarists, directors, actors, who would love to have their original work be widely known. Instead, we mostly get the commercial movies.

Im a Film major and we actually discuss this in class quite often because people say the same things. One of the factors would be that the 'Hollywood Studio System' Is no longer around. For those of you that doesn't know what that is, it's the way they made the films in the classic era, in a studio with highly trained actors (Who were usually trained in dance/music/acting/speech etc etc), composers, cinematographers, directors and screen-playwrights in which that was ALL that they did.

That system is no longer existant and the basis in which Hollywood makes film nowadays is usually trying to copy those elements without the proper training.

Though it is true that some of the greats of the classic era went against that very system, including Orson Welles, Kubrick, Cassvetes, etc. The system was still one of those foundations that brought work out with high talent.

Now, Im not saying there is no talent nowadays, Im just saying the talent isnt as developed as it once was. Another thing to look at is the techniques used. Not many people are very experimental nowadays. Everything is cliche and cliche sells. There are many many people who like to see something new, but a factor to why there aren't many new types of film is because the cliche is both promoted and demanded in public. And those people who don't like Cliche are the ones who say "Hollywood is out of Ideas." It may seem Hollywood is out of Ideas, but they are still the ones making billions off of the general public.

Spiff is correct in his statement, there have always been films. In the silent era, in the classic era, in the experimental era just as there are now... and Gems arent always easy to find (Hell, Citizen Kane was loathed for decades until it became respected and seen as one of the, if not the, most revolutionary film of all time.) But sometimes you just need to know where to look. There are many great independent films, there are many good highly publicized films, there are many good foreign films... its just a matter of looking for the ones that are revolutionary in ideas, technique, plot and anything else that might be considered 'new.'

I happen to like both the unique films and the typical Hollywood films, but theres a place to both and you just have to know what you are looking for.

Spiff said what I've been wanting to say ever since the first idiot I heard drop that line.

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Originally Posted by Bad Karma

Now, Im not saying there is no talent nowadays, Im just saying the talent isnt as developed as it once was. Another thing to look at is the techniques used. Not many people are very experimental nowadays. Everything is cliche and cliche sells. There are many many people who like to see something new, but a factor to why there aren't many new types of film is because the cliche is both promoted and demanded in public. And those people who don't like Cliche are the ones who say "Hollywood is out of Ideas." It may seem Hollywood is out of Ideas, but they are still the ones making billions off of the general public.

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I think you are right in saying that not many studio's are very experimental nowadays. One of my favorite film makers for his hong kong films is John Woo. Woo once planned to blow up an entire, ACTUAL hospital in the making of one of his films, and had to be talked out of it by his producers, as well as the hospital administration. He is a director who set up a series of explosives during an action shot, without telling Chow Yun Fat just to get a realistic reaction when the explosions went off. He was a bit nuts, but he made damn good films.

Hollywood sure fixed that situation in a hurry.

The thing about hollywood is that they have the most highly funded movie making studio's in the world, but the double edged sword to that is that they will only fund films that seem sure to be a big hit. or at least see SOME kind of return. Critical acclaim wont pay the bills, its john and jane moviegoer that do that and so the highest funded films are typically the ones are the most cliche or sure to get the people off the couch and into the theatre. Some of the best films in hollywoods history were poorly funded and almost never saw completion. The original Star Wars being a prime example. The original Star Trek series as well had to fight hard for its three seasons, despite there being some truly good stories in there. And one of Disney's most highly acclaimed TV series, Gargoyles, the creators had to struggle mightily just to keep the show intelligent and epic. In Hollywood, art, is a gamble that even most of the vegas gambling addicts wouldnt bet on. Cliche is a money train that nine times out of ten always pulls into the station right on schedule.

It's kind of sad, but the vast majority dont want something new. They want to see what has been proven in the past to entertain them. any change in that and they become discontent. They change the channel, and stop going to the theatre's. I can name so many televsion shows that won awards and critical priase, Reboot, Shadow Raiders, Beast Wars, Exosquad, Gargoyles, yet because they deviated from the norm, they met early deaths. Heck, look at Final Fantasy Spirits Within, A great film that is an industry joke just for being different from fan expectations. Hollywood knows this, so they play it safe. Whereas other film industries, such as the Japanese and Hong Kong film makers, can afford to take some risks due to the fact that there is a significantly lesser amount of capital involved. Interviews with the staff of Hayo's Moving Castle (Hayo Miyazaki film) state that during the creation process, the deadlines ran so tight that sometimes the animators worked overnight, taking turns making ramen in the office. I cant imagine Disney or Pixar sweating like that.

And to close, most of the New Idea's hollywood gets does come from overseas. Lucas got the inspiration froms star wars from Akira Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress. Speghetti Westerns like Fistful of Dollars, The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, and Magnificent Seven were also all based on prior Kurosawa successes such as Sanjuro, Seven Samurai, and Yojimbo. The Matrix films were inspired by various anime and Hong Kong action films. And lets not even start and the gratuitous importing of Hong Kong and japanese films for a way for hollywood to test out film ideas at dirt cheap prices. As I stated, most other film industries can afford to take the risks because the loss is significantly less then a hollywood film bombing. Which is why so many of the fresh Ideas do come from overseas.

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Originally Posted by The Void

Here's an example of the films hollywood has produced recently-

Scary Movie 1,2,3 +4 :mad:
Dude, wheres my car :mad2:
I know what you did last summer :mad:
Body Shots :mad2:
Charlie's Angels :mad2: :mad2:

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Way to miss the point of my post completely.

And Bad Karma and Ishin Ookami are my new favorite people. I wish I knew people like you in real life to talk about things like that. Nobody I know cares enough. I love my movies, and I'd like to know people who cares about them as much as you two. :)

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Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff

Way to miss the point of my post completely.

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Whatever, if you like hollywood movies then carry on watching them, I'll stick with american indie and european films

America's really lost it's grip on the movie industury, even the best american movies are made by foreigners-

American Beauty (Brit)
Leaving Last Vegas (Brit)
Three Kings (Aussie)
Memento (Brit)
American History X (Brit)
Truman Show (Aussie)
Gladiator (Brit)
The Rock (Hong Kong)
Leon (French)
Lord of the Rings (NZ)

There's probably loads more i don't know too. One thing that annoys me about hollywood is although a lot of european talent has contributed to the sucess over the years, were still portrayed in a negitive way.

I have a similar opinion, a movie only sells really well if it has big name actors (expensive), impressive special effects (expansive)and a bucketload of marketing (expensive). Most summer blockbusters need to make $100 million just to cover costs. As a result they have to cater to the lowest common denominator which lowers quality since families rarely go to the cinema to watch unusual or intellectual films that weren't heavily advertised or lacking in explosions. My sister just summed up a money making film as 'good guys, bad guys and explosions'. I agree with her.

More and more movies are portraying the same things:

-stereotyped actors (asians, african americans, latinos, caucasians).

-Superhero movies with themes which have been done too many times before.

-Nothing is RAW anymore, everything's technological and wowsy.

-Actors are being asked to talk too much.

-There are too many movies with either ghetto black people or DUDESY white people (meaningless!).

-Same actors different movies (they are using the same actors over and over again).

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Originally Posted by The Void

Whatever, if you like hollywood movies then carry on watching them, I'll stick with american indie and european films

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Way to miss the point twice in a row.

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Originally Posted by Angel Heart

America's really lost it's grip on the movie industury, even the best american movies are made by foreigners-

American Beauty (Brit)
Leaving Last Vegas (Brit)
Three Kings (Aussie)
Memento (Brit)
American History X (Brit)
Truman Show (Aussie)
Gladiator (Brit)
The Rock (Hong Kong)
Leon (French)
Lord of the Rings (NZ)

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Gladiator, Lord of the Rings, Truman Show, The Rock, and maybe a few more of those are "big hollywood movies". No one's discussing what countries the directors are from, or where it was filmed.
I was gonig to list some of those and more to disprove:

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Originally Posted by The Void

Whatever, if you like hollywood movies then carry on watching them, I'll stick with american indie and european films

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But now not so much work for me. :D

I've never heard anyone say that Hollywood used to be great. The common sentiment as far as I've seen is that it's just gotten even worse than it ever was previously.

I agree most of the best and most original movies in Hollywood came out awhile ago, but that's not to say good movies don't come out anymore. You just have to look in the right places. There's been a lot of great movies in the last few years, for example:

Eternal Sunshine, The Life Aquatic, The Squid and the Whale, LOTR, Lost in Translation, The Machinist - Just some great movies I've seen that are fairly recent

Well, although Hollywood doesn't look to be embracing originality anytime soon, at least this year is going to be fantastic for people who like movies out of the norm. Youve got Southland Tales from Richard Kelly, the Fountain from Darren Aronofsky, Inland Empire from David Lynch, and a new movie from Michael Gondry coming out this year. If more people can go see movies like these, than maybe we can get Hollywood to recognize originailty.

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Originally Posted by The Void

Whatever, if you like hollywood movies then carry on watching them, I'll stick with american indie and european films

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I will keep on watching them, thank you very much. There are plenty of great films that have been made in the past 10 years, as well as plenty of crappy ones. Frankly, the crappy films are what we sometimes judge the good films by!!

-LYCHON

P.S. Hollywood rocks!!! It's America's gift to the world and without it we'd all be a bit 'insaner.' lol

Spiff, did you ever know that you're my hero?

I mean, 2005 did have quite a few bad movies, but every decade has at least one bad movie year. There have always been bad movies, and there have always been classic movies, ever since movies were created.

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Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff

And Bad Karma and Ishin Ookami are my new favorite people. I wish I knew people like you in real life to talk about things like that. Nobody I know cares enough. I love my movies, and I'd like to know people who cares about them as much as you two. :)

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Wow. That's cool. I know how you feel though, there are hardly any people I know who can actually discuss Cinema (or Music, Books, Anime, Games) Intelligently. Good to know there's someone else out there.

Which kinda goes into the point I made above. People should just be more open minded about good and bad, there is generally good AND bad in EVERYTHING.

The problem with Hollywood is that they pay everyone too much of a base pay instead of a pay based on how well a movie does. They would get more original ideas and films made if everyone got payed on how well a movie does. Obviously everyone would have a base pay but no one would be getting payed $30 million a picture as a base pay.

The Biggest Problem with Hollywood Today : Romantic " Comedies ". God, I hate them ... usually riddled with cliches, and some smarmy punk called Darcy Bigley or something, drives a Mercedes and smacks women's asses for fun. I can imagine him, sitting on his couch, slapping that big sweet old ass, laughing his very smarmy laugh, like his debauchery is funny. Damn, then it's more of a sex comedy than anything else. I hate it.

In the movie industry, even during years when some of the most epic and legendary films have been produced and released, there were movies that sucked. There's always some garbage amongst the gems. There has been good movies among the bad, there still are some good movies among the bad, and there always will be some good movies among the bad. My point is, just because most of the films released in a year sucked does not mean that Hollywood is losing creativity and such.