Wow this article REALLY hates this game

http://www.toastyfrog.com/toastywiki...inalFantasyVII

Yet he says FFVI and Chrono Trigger are just so perfect... I normally don't get all wrapped up in the "I'm anti-ThisandThis because it's popular and I can only like obscure things" but this article was pretty brutal :O.

He attacked the story and the gameplay...I love Chrono Trigger, but as a game to FFVII it is both technically and at its core a weaker title. Of course, it's all just opinion I suppose.

Have you ever noticed that when something comes out and it's popular always a few years later it becomes cool to criticize? I remember when this came out all my friends gushing over it and now they're all like, "Oh, THAT game, it was boring and mediocre at best." I call this the "Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty is the Best Game of all Time Until a Few Years Pass and then it is the Worst Effect". I'm working on shortening my Effect name down ^_^;

I guess it's easy to forget what it's like in 1997 when this game was all that and a barrel of jellybeans... *Sigh*, how my poor FFVII has aged... Don't worry, Lunar still loves you *snuggle*.

Zidane: :cry: AT LAST! Another person with common sense, I've been saying this stuff since I first played FFVII.

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Originally Posted by ZidaneAndGarnet

Zidane: :cry: AT LAST! Another person with common sense, I've been saying this stuff since I first played FFVII.

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If you're agreeing with the person of the article, I agree, too.
Almost everything in the article sums up what I think about VII.
But I'll still will play it through the end. Because I want to hold my final judgement until I finished the game.

Tehre are some godo parts about the game, though.
Liek it is really fun to battle and lv up. Teh characters respond quiet fast.

But the bad far outwaights the good.
But, again, it all comes down on personal taste.

(Although the writer CERTAINLY was right about Kefka and Sephiroth.)

Has it become a fad to bash this game? If its so bad why is it the ebst seling rpg of all time? Its getting stupid. Most of the people contsantly bashing NEVER played games before the advent of the playstation, and have been bottle fed 3d graphics and fmvs. When VII came out, 3d was still in its infancy, I never saw a fmv before I played 7, A few 3d games, but only like sonic 3d for the mega drive.
I still love you seven. If people keep on whining about the graphics Im going to tear there legs off and beat them with it.
I still play this game 9 YEARS after it was made. I threw X in the bin halfway threw my second time.

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Originally Posted by Wuggly Blight

Has it become a fad to bash this game? If its so bad why is it the ebst seling rpg of all time? Its getting stupid. Most of the people contsantly bashing NEVER played games before the advent of the playstation, and have been bottle fed 3d graphics and fmvs. When VII came out, 3d was still in its infancy, I never saw a fmv before I played 7, A few 3d games, but only like sonic 3d for the mega drive.
I still love you seven. If people keep on whining about the graphics Im going to tear there legs off and beat them with it.
I still play this game 9 YEARS after it was made. I threw X in the bin halfway threw my second time.

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I'm gonna rip people appart if they continue bashing IX because teh main character doesn't have a big sword and spikey hair. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Elpizo

If you're agreeing with the person of the article, I agree, too.
Almost everything in the article sums up what I think about VII.
But I'll still will play it through the end. Because I want to hold my final judgement until I finished the game.

Tehre are some godo parts about the game, though.
Liek it is really fun to battle and lv up. Teh characters respond quiet fast.

But the bad far outwaights the good.
But, again, it all comes down on personal taste.

(Although the writer CERTAINLY was right about Kefka and Sephiroth.)

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Hate for Sephy? I would love to see the response if Sephiroth looked just like Kefka and Kefka like Sephiroth... Then we'd all be bashing VII for it's silly villain that can't be taken seriously and praising VI for it's wonderfully dark villain that was realistic. Jeez :rolleyes2

This is where I draw the line on anti-Fanboyism.
I think that guy went a bit too far on it, although he had some VERY good points.
I still thought FFVII was a great game despite the problems it had.

Sorry but thats the biggest load of crap ive ever seen. If theres one thing that cant be knocked on this game is its story which is timeless, and to say FFVII has no plot, i stoped reading from there. Pure hate trash...

Quite possibly the most factual article about ff7 I have ever read. Especially the part about Cloud's character.

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Originally Posted by BlackWaltz

If theres one thing that cant be knocked on this game is its story which is timeless

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Opinion. Pure opinion.

Anyway. I really like this article. It's pretty well thought out, and even the writer says we can do without people who vehemently hate the game.

Damn heavy gamers.

It is just a game; no need to get so in depth. :rolleyes2

I liked it...though it was slightly annoying that the characters had three different looks (field, battle, fmv) and they all looked like lego people...

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Originally Posted by Elpizo

I'm gonna rip people appart if they continue bashing IX because teh main character doesn't have a big sword and spikey hair. :mad:

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Zidane: Whoa, whoa, whoa, no ripping apart people who bash FFIX, it isn't right. That article simply says to me, that FFVII; however, is not as perfect as most seem to want it to be. Sehpiroth? He was a good villian, better than Kekfa IMO, but Sehpiroth was a momma's boy over someone something that wasn't even his mom, that's the only flaw I saw in him.

People don't like it because of annoying fanspersons. If those annoying obsessive fanspersons were gone, I can guarantee that it wouldn't get as much hate. If something is overhyped, it seems to be hated.

I actually like the game, without overly obsessing about it, so we both win. :cat:

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Originally Posted by Zeromus_X

People don't like it because of annoying fanspersons. If those annoying obsessive fanspersons were gone, I can guarantee that it wouldn't get as much hate. If something is overhyped, it seems to be hated.

I actually like the game, without overly obsessing about it, so we both win. :cat:

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Zidane: Agreed.

Poor Parish.

Personally, I would never look into a game as much as this guy in the article has. I find it kind of sad actually.

Sure, I did like FFVII for what it was, I don't really need anyone to convince me that I shouldn't like it. And I do disagree with a few things he has to say.

I don't know what his intent in the article was anyway, to convince people to stop liking and playing it? Oh well, that'll never work.

Each to their own, I guess. *shrug*

I think he just wanted to express his opinion and be educated about it. I admire him for it, really.

A lot of the reasons for him not liking the game are pretty poor (especially when he was talking about the way characters change size/proportions and how the music was crap) as they're either trivial (not to mention normal for Eastern RPGs) or clearly down to opinion (you can't expect everyone to like the music).

As much as I love FFVII, I actually found the article pretty funny. The thing about Cloud's personality (or lack of) was especially amusing - and I have to admit that it's spot-on when he complained about how Cloud changed main characters. Personally, I wouldn't mind having a nice variety of lead characters but instead it seems it's either a) terribly upbeat or b) terribly downtrodden.

Having said that, nobody should blame FFVII for every other RPG copying it. FFVII was the first to do a lot of things that happened to work - so give credit where credit is due. Other games are repeats of it, so blame them, not FFVII. That would be like blaming Queen for so many people covering their songs.

Hey gang, Aeris just died a tragic, heartbreaking death -- it's time for snowboarding!
Well, I don't know about you lot, but I was happy that she died, and this was a good way to celebrate. I'm sure Cloud felt the same way. :D

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Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix

I think he just wanted to express his opinion and be educated about it. I admire him for it, really.

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I agree. It takes quite some courage to write an article liek that, especially when you consider how many people seem to like VII...

It takes very little courage to slate FFVII on the internet. People do it pretty often. It takes very little courage to do almost anything on the internet, actually.

I don't admire him for stating his opinion, I do admire him for making some good points (although as per my previous post, I don't blame FFVII just like I don't blame Queen) and for doing it in such an amusing way. :)

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

It takes very little courage to slate FFVII on the internet. People do it pretty often. It takes very little courage to do almost anything on the internet, actually.

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Actually, Jeremy Parish is a games journalist by trade, and he posted the article on his personal website instead of 1UP.com in order to avoid attracting attention, as something like this could put a damper on his relations with Square Enix. Of course, he didn't expect Slashdot to pick up on it.

FFVII still rocks... they can say what they wnt, after all this was the first 3D RPG...and the reason why I started playin FF's!

I admire him for being brave to show his opinion.
Some of it are correct but most of it are wrong, the author probably is another person who can't accept FFVII high sellers and fans.

I like both FFVII and FFIX but it seems that FFIX is bashing FFVII:( , I don't know what to do anymore:( .....

I thought it was a good article, I'm not averse to deeper analysis of games and I thought he was pretty spot-on in a lot of what he said, and while I did disagree with some of what he said, I agree that FFVII's really nothing to get excited about. Moderately enjoyable, I suppose, but not fantastic.

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Originally Posted by ZidaneAndGarnet

Sehpiroth? He was a good villian, better than Kekfa IMO, but Sehpiroth was a momma's boy over someone something that wasn't even his mom, that's the only flaw I saw in him.

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Well, he's CRAZY after all, he's a mutated person.

The guy makes some good points, but I don't understand how he judges games as bad because they aquired status for being "firsts". Does he WANT us to like the UN-ORIGINAL games out there, of which there are many?

Sure, story of FF7 is bad in parts, mainly poor translation in some places. To that, I say "Zero Wing" :P ROFL

To his whole "graphics changing between one design studio and the other" i say, well, basically the first game to have that kind of FMV sequences, do they have to get it perfect first time?

He's also tunnel-visioned. Its easy to focus on the negatives when reviewing a game, and neglect the positives. EG: He's bashing the minigames. Why? There's simply no reason NOT to have them.

Give me any game and I can nit-pick it to death, much like this guy.

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Originally Posted by Zeromus_X

I actually like the game, without overly obsessing about it, so we both win. :cat:

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I concur.

I couldnt care less, people who flame FFVII can do what they like. *shrugs*

~Setzer Gabianni

Meh the guy made a few points here and there but really there is nothing to admire. He isnt going to get death threats and he isnt a pioneer in video game reviews. He just a guy with a computer who knows how to type his opinion. Nothin to admire here. By these standards you should all be bowing at my nasty frost bitten feet.

That, and there are way too many of these to count. :cat: :(

Just as there are thousands of 'omg FFVII is great' reviews. They dont bring anything new to the table, either. Reviews and bashing articles and all of it, its all been done a thousand times. But I dont see anything wrong with someone hashing it again, its not like Im being forced to read it.

It was interesting to read and made me laugh a few times. But I don't like FFVII any more or less. It's just a game, it's up to the person who plays it whether its worth their time or not. The only point where the article made me a little angry is when he states:

"And then there are the gamers who totally love FFVII. Inexplicably, they number in the millions. Some of them are simply nice but misguided people, but generally speaking, they're youngsters who had never actually played a role-playing game before 1997. (Or who suffer from intense, debilitating head trauma.)"

Here he is implying that only his opinion matters, all others be damned. I would say go to hell, but its the internet and I don't really care enough.

This is classed as a good review?

The reason why I love FFVII is because of malfunctioning grey matter? That I'm hopelessly mistaken? That it's not even a true 'RPG'? That it came first?

And then going on to say that it started the downfall of FF games, and that the plot isn't even a story - how ignorant and stupid can you get? This is hate, pure and simple.

It seems that he just wants to make excuses for why people love the game so much.

3 things are to be said
1 he's or she a goth
2 folks are dumb where i come from
3 he or she likes thing that involve a coulple of guys using swords for other purposes

I was obsessed with FFVII for a long time after I first played it (my first console RPG btw) but since then I've been able to step back and look at it from the same perspective as the author of this review does. Chrono Trigger is now easily my favourite Square game and I also realise that Sephiroth wasn't such an awesome villian (particularly compared to Kefka and Kuja). There's some stuff in there I don't really agree with but at the end of the day, it's just another review that's good for a few laughs.

he has a point but i still don't get what he sees so badly in ff7...i've got to face it, i'm just 'deluded'.

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Originally Posted by FallenAngel411

"And then there are the gamers who totally love FFVII. Inexplicably, they number in the millions. Some of them are simply nice but misguided people, but generally speaking, they're youngsters who had never actually played a role-playing game before 1997. (Or who suffer from intense, debilitating head trauma.)"

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These are pretty broad, and stereotypical statements, which hold no merit. I for one played a bunch of those early FFs, including FF1 when if first came out. And I REALLY enjoy FFVII. I'm playing another quest in it right now.

He's just bashing for the sake of bashing. I'm sure he's just a cry baby hiding behind his computer, and finds this is the best way to let his sookiness, anger and frustration out. He's obviously just annoyed with all the fanboys/girls.

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Originally Posted by Limit Breaker

he or she likes thing that involve a coulple of guys using swords for other purposes

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ROFL

But I laughed (because I couldn't understand why) when he said that the minigames detract from the main story:

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Originally Posted by Article

Square even tried to compensate by tossing in a handful of minigames, which were simultaneously terrible and inappropriate. Hey gang, Aeris just died a tragic, heartbreaking death -- it's time for snowboarding!

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Why NOT have minigames?

While I do like the fact that he points out many things some people refuse to see concerning characterization, I am a bit disappointed that he uses these things to conclude the game is of poor quality. Just because every character in the game has deep running flaws and weaknesses doesn't make for a bad story. In fact, I would argue that it actually makes for a more interesting one. Yes, the characters have crazy flaws that perhaps aren't that realistic, but the fact that there really is no saving grace for any of these characters fascinates me. They have to get by on the skin of their teeth, because there's no final realization of "Oh, I've been wrong this entire time!" In the end of the game, Cloud is still confused and cold, Tifa is still a needy, weak woman, Barret is still jaded, Nanaki is still indifferent, Vincent is still depressed, Cid is still a bastard and Aeris will always remain manipulative.

Yes I skipped Yuffie and Cait Sith, because I feel they have no dimension whatsoever. So nyah. :p

I think the sales numbers speaks for themselves. FFVII is not a bad game.

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Originally Posted by Levian

I think the sales numbers speaks for themselves. FFVII is not a bad game.

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That's exactly what this is all about. Things that are extremely popular usually get this kind of hate from certain types of people.

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Originally Posted by Amaru

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Originally Posted by Levian

I think the sales numbers speaks for themselves. FFVII is not a bad game.

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That's exactly what this is all about. Things that are extremely popular usually get this kind of hate from certain types of people.

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Agreed.

These people are what you call nerds. Nerds have a problem with liking things that are really popular or things that the majority loves. They may have once loved something, but once it starts getting a lot of attention, they deem it as no longer being "cool." We tend to ignore them and shrug them off as a minor annoyance in modern day society.

Id like to say that its opinion. but to put it plain and simple, its just bull[img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img]. The review itself was poorly written and no self respecting gamer would take it seriously

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Originally Posted by ZidaneAndGarnet

Zidane: :cry: AT LAST! Another person with common sense, I've been saying this stuff since I first played FFVII.

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*gasp*:eek: Who let you in here?! Bad boy/girl! *Brings back to FF9 forum*.

7 is the shiz and the only reason people seem to hate this one so much is because it's loved so much at the same time. And other people can't stand when people don't love what they love. That's why they bash the goodness that is 7. Besides like PontiusPilate said it's just an opinion that means that it isn't neccesarily correct 100 %.

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Originally Posted by PontiusPilate

Id like to say that its opinion. but to put it plain and simple, its just bull[img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img]. The review itself was poorly written and no self respecting gamer would take it seriously

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It wasn't poorly written. It also isn't something that anyone should take seriously, it's only for humorous purposes, and is a personal opinion of the writer. If a movie gets a bad review, does that necessarily mean people are going to hate it? I hardly think anyone takes movie reviews seriously.

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Originally Posted by Seifer

These people are what you call nerds. Nerds have a problem with liking things that are really popular or things that the majority loves. They may have once loved something, but once it starts getting a lot of attention, they deem it as no longer being "cool." We tend to ignore them and shrug them off as a minor annoyance in modern day society.

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Excuse me?

Oh my god! Someone on the internet doesn't like FFVII!!! Stop the presses!

With a respectful bow to VII, I love bashing X-2.

I am not a fan of bashing too many games because they almost always have fans waiting around the corner, waiting to jump to that particular title's defense.

As for this article, it became quite clear to me that the author was a bit confused as to what it was that he actually hated. It seemed to me that he hated the fanboy (and girls) and the affect that this game had on other games.

I can't say that I disagree with him on that. Every RPG now seems to have the basic plot that if you find and defeat the right long-haired pretty-boy, the world's problems will be solved. Also, now every character is a wild-haired weakling with social anxiety and inner conflict like Cloud (or his more extreme successor, Squall).

However, I would go so far as to say that the author is hugely wrong when it comes to the story of Final Fanasy VII. The plot is almost impossibly complex, often needing more than one playing of the game to take it all in and understand just what it all meant. Every character is delved into quite deeply (unlike say, Final Fantasy VI), all with immense backgrounds and problems of their own.

The music here is fantastic, so here I also disagree with the writer. Some of Uematsu's best work can be found here, namely "One-Winged Angel", which brought game music beyond the usual midi format kind.

As for the animation, it was about time that RPG's moved beyond the 2D kinds offered in the previous FFs and others. The in-game cinematics only served as an extra treat for players, adding, along with more epic storyline a better experience (instead of saying to other FFVII players, remember when so-and-so said "blah-blah", now you could say, "remember when the Saphire Weapon attacked Junon and just before he was to blast another shot he got blaste3d right in the riggin' face!?").

Final Fantasy VII was and still is and awesome experience. Were the story so bad then people wouldn't remember it, were the characters not interesting nor developed then people wouldn't remember their names. It's good when there are people like this who write such things about Final Fantasy VII. It pulls the rest of us together to remember what an awesome experience we have all shared, and yet also had personally. Go Final Fantasy VII.

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Originally Posted by Kain424

I am not a fan of bashing too many games because they almost always have fans waiting around the corner, waiting to jump to that particular title's defense.

As for this article, it became quite clear to me that the author was a bit confused as to what it was that he actually hated. It seemed to me that he hated the fanboy (and girls) and the affect that this game had on other games.

I can't say that I disagree with him on that. Every RPG now seems to have the basic plot that if you find and defeat the right long-haired pretty-boy, the world's problems will be solved. Also, now every character is a wild-haired weakling with social anxiety and inner conflict like Cloud (or his more extreme successor, Squall).

However, I would go so far as to say that the author is hugely wrong when it comes to the story of Final Fanasy VII. The plot is almost impossibly complex, often needing more than one playing of the game to take it all in and understand just what it all meant. Every character is delved into quite deeply (unlike say, Final Fantasy VI), all with immense backgrounds and problems of their own.

The music here is fantastic, so here I also disagree with the writer. Some of Uematsu's best work can be found here, namely "One-Winged Angel", which brought game music beyond the usual midi format kind.

As for the animation, it was about time that RPG's moved beyond the 2D kinds offered in the previous FFs and others. The in-game cinematics only served as an extra treat for players, adding, along with more epic storyline a better experience (instead of saying to other FFVII players, remember when so-and-so said "blah-blah", now you could say, "remember when the Saphire Weapon attacked Junon and just before he was to blast another shot he got blaste3d right in the riggin' face!?").

Final Fantasy VII was and still is and awesome experience. Were the story so bad then people wouldn't remember it, were the characters not interesting nor developed then people wouldn't remember their names. It's good when there are people like this who write such things about Final Fantasy VII. It pulls the rest of us together to remember what an awesome experience we have all shared, and yet also had personally. Go Final Fantasy VII.

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I like you.

That dude must of played the game 20 times through, or he can't really enjoy RPG's.

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Originally Posted by Kain424

I am not a fan of bashing too many games because they almost always have fans waiting around the corner, waiting to jump to that particular title's defense.

As for this article, it became quite clear to me that the author was a bit confused as to what it was that he actually hated. It seemed to me that he hated the fanboy (and girls) and the affect that this game had on other games.

I can't say that I disagree with him on that. Every RPG now seems to have the basic plot that if you find and defeat the right long-haired pretty-boy, the world's problems will be solved. Also, now every character is a wild-haired weakling with social anxiety and inner conflict like Cloud (or his more extreme successor, Squall).

However, I would go so far as to say that the author is hugely wrong when it comes to the story of Final Fanasy VII. The plot is almost impossibly complex, often needing more than one playing of the game to take it all in and understand just what it all meant. Every character is delved into quite deeply (unlike say, Final Fantasy VI), all with immense backgrounds and problems of their own.

The music here is fantastic, so here I also disagree with the writer. Some of Uematsu's best work can be found here, namely "One-Winged Angel", which brought game music beyond the usual midi format kind.

As for the animation, it was about time that RPG's moved beyond the 2D kinds offered in the previous FFs and others. The in-game cinematics only served as an extra treat for players, adding, along with more epic storyline a better experience (instead of saying to other FFVII players, remember when so-and-so said "blah-blah", now you could say, "remember when the Saphire Weapon attacked Junon and just before he was to blast another shot he got blaste3d right in the riggin' face!?").

Final Fantasy VII was and still is and awesome experience. Were the story so bad then people wouldn't remember it, were the characters not interesting nor developed then people wouldn't remember their names. It's good when there are people like this who write such things about Final Fantasy VII. It pulls the rest of us together to remember what an awesome experience we have all shared, and yet also had personally. Go Final Fantasy VII.

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I too like you but FFVII paved the way intoweak wild hair etc etc charaters which will be used for centuries to come

I like how there has to be something wrong with him to have this opinion. As though no one could actually dislike it for any valid reason.

It's probably just a minor mental disorder.

That was the funniest article I've read for a while. Sloppy seconds. hehehe. And the Sephiroth/Kefka Comparison was Genious.

I got the feeling he just exagerated to an extreme to get people to read and laugh at the articl, and didn't try to be very serious.

Argh who cares? People can think what they want to think, its not worth your time trying to convince someone as up themself like that.

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Originally Posted by Limit Breaker

I too like you but FFVII paved the way intoweak wild hair etc etc charaters which will be used for centuries to come

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Thanks, I like being liked.

I agree with you on this, as I agreed with the article's author on this point. There is nothing wrong with Cloud being that way, but when now every character (so it seems) in an RPG has to look and act that way (or more extreme, like Squall) it gets to be a bit too much.

I didn't like Zidane because I don't like being monkies... but at least he had a good attitude most of the time. Why, then, did they flop back into whiny mode with Tidus? I don't know. But it sure sucks. Yuna had more balls.

I'm hoping for cool with the next one (FFXII).

>:-)

Ignorant S-O-B
He is calling us dumb for liking FFVII. Its all a matter of opinion, he can bash FFVII all he wants, it wont change anyones opinion on the game. What everyone must know, is that even if you dont like FFVII, you cant deny the fact that its a good game.

Wow...just like being in the FFVIII forum...

And the only reason I made this in the first place was just to say *snuggle* in reference to my Final Fantasy VII disc.