I hate computers

Can anyone tell me if this is a good deal?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...=A455-2116%20A

How can anyone keep up with all this crap? It used to be low numbers bad, high numbers good. Sell your 386 and get a 486. Now there's single cores and dual cores and hyperthreading and 32 vs. 64 bit, and no way to tell which of Athlon or Sempron or Duron or Opteron or Celeron or FX or X2 is best.

All I want is an average computer that's better than what I have, and that is going to be upgradeable for the next 4 years or so. I have an old Pentium 4 2.4GHz right now, and I can't even tell if the one I linked about is better or worse than what I have. Seeing as how my old one has a P4 2.4GHz and the motherboard can't take a PCI Express card, I'll assume what I linked above is better.

That's a good price. The 3200 is sort of weak, but since I assume you won't be doing much encoding it should be fine. The 939 socket will allow you to upgrade to a dual core AMD solution when you feel the need for real multi-tasking. You'll want to get at least another 512MB of RAM. You'll also need to provide your own GPU. I recommend no less than a Geforce 6600GT (which you can now find for around $120) and no more than a 7800GT ($300 price range), although that might be pushing the limits of what the CPU can push to a card as fast as a 7800GT.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&sku=P450-8576

That card is $99, that was my plan. Again I have no idea whether a XFX GeForce 6800 Xtreme is better or worse than a Geforce 6600GT.

I plan to use this computer for programming and light gaming and watching movies etc. By "encoding" do you mean video / audio encoding? No, I won't be touching that.

That should be fine.

Now you have me wondering if I should get something better than the 3200+.

*sepuku*

A more powerful proc will only benefit you if you plan on running the very latest games at 1280x1024 with everything on high. You would then have to invest in a better GPU as well. The 3200 has a P(entium) rating of around 3.2GHz, hence 3200. Of course it's only clocked at 2.2GHZ (or something like that), but AMD gives you better performance per CPU cycle than Intel does.

OK, that's reassuring. I was thankfully grilled for a semester at college on the fact that faster clock speed does not mean a faster computer. I have no wish to play the latest games at 1280x1024.

I will hesitantly plan to get the crap I've linked here. Thanks for your help.

Reformat and reinstall Windows.

I think that's pretty cheap for what you're getting. So good job.

I have a AMD X2 4400 and it multi-tasks like a beast.

The X2 line is sweet, although I also wouldn't mind an FX-60. :p

In what way does it multitask better? Is it better responsiveness when doing heavy disk I/O? Or better responsiveness during 100% CPU utilization? I would assume that latter, if the speedup is due to the CPU being able to execute two processes or threads in parallel. Which kinds of programs does it make the biggest difference for?

Linux uses a preemptible kernel that makes it feel a lot more responsive than Windows, especially if you enable DMA for your hard drives. Though I know dual processors would make a difference doing parallel compilation in GCC (when it's possible). It's good to know I can get a dual core processor if I ever want one. I figure I'm likely to get at least as much benefit from switching from an IDE to SATA HD than from upgrading the processor, however I'm basing this on vague theoretical knowledge and not on empirical data. I am looking forward to seeing what kind of difference a 64bit processor makes; my guess is not much, but Gentoo is compiled architecture-specific so you never know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neel Hates Clout's Guts

Reformat and reinstall Windows.

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Sage advice indeed.

There is less of a difference between IDE and SATA than between single core and dual core. A throughput of 150MB/s is only theoretical and assumes no latency between HDD, RAM, and CPU. Dual core's benefits are seen now. Ripping a movie? Watch another movie using the other core and experience no bottleneck except for memory and HDD requirements. Programs are now coming out that use both cores. This is especially important in Pro apps where managing seperate processes is key.

The 64-bit jump is not a big one. It's mainly a jump in memory allocation, where before a 32-bit proc could only allocate 4GB of RAM to a system, a 64-bit proc could theoretically allocate 17,179,869,184 GB of RAM (thanks Wikipedia), although a 16GB limit has been placed in most modern OS kernels.

After further searching, it seems that Tigerdirect are possibly a bunch of shysters. BBB report for example...

http://www.bbbsoutheastflorida.org/n...33000027000500

Isn't that depressing? :( "Too good to be true" comes to mind. Back to the drawing board.

I like Newegg myself. Oh and zipzoomfly.com is good too.

I don't know all the technological mumbo-jumbo, but I did do a lot of comparing before settling on a processor. Basically, I just learned that AMD is better than Intel. Also, I learned that a single core (FX-60) could be the fastest processor on the planet at doing one thing (gaming), but that most of us do different things (check email, listen to music, rip a dvd, whatever). Thus, most of us would benefit from dual core. I don't know why it works better, but the fact is that it does.

I rip two dvds from two drives at the same time. I play Doom 3 while ripping mp3s off of a cd and downloading on bittorrent. No slowdown. The processor cost me about 500 bucks though. There are cheaper, better value AMD dual cores though. I just don't like overclocking, so I got one that I wouldn't have to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cid

I play Doom 3 while ripping mp3s off of a cd and downloading on bittorrent.

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Well that sounds tasty.

oops double post

AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester 2000MHz HT Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADA3800BVBOX - Retail

CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model Twinx2048-3200c2 - Retail

ASUS A8N-SLI Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black Aluminum Bezel, SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

ASUS Atlas A-45GA ATX12V 2.0 450W Power Supply - Retail

Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3300822AS 300GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

XFX PVT42EUDE3 Geforce 6800 XTreme 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail

$921.95

Questions:
1. Does anything I've listed here appear to be extremely senseless?
2. I could get the X2 4400 for $150 more. So tempting... worth it?
3. Does the processor comes with the fan and heat sink and thermal sludge etc.? Will I need an extra fan or anything?
4. Do I need a 450W power supply? I just threw it in there. I understand video cards use a lot of power, but I only plan to have one video card. I could get a cheapo case and power supply instead.
5. I plan to use my old Creative Audigy2 PCI card. Am I dumb?

I bow to your collective wisdom and experience.

SATA300 is overkill. You won't get a 300MB/s throughput anyway.

Do you value the extra 200MHz on each core? The 3800 you linked to has a 512kb L2 cache. I would look into a 1MB L2 cache instead. The Manchester core is getting old.

Heatsink and fan should come with the retail box, as well as thermal paste.

I would recommend an even more powerful PSU. Although many video card manufacturers state that a certain number, in the case of Nvidia's 6 series, around 350W, it is still a low wattage. The 6 series takes up a lot of power and runs hot. You also have to take into consideration running a dual core takes more power. You also have to look into a stable PSU that can have stable amperage over a single rail. If you have low amperage, wattage won't really matter because it won't be able to sustain power to all your computer components. Do not skimp out on a good PSU. Power systems thrive on them.

Audigy 2 is fine.

Something to add. With a proc as powerful as the one you listed, a 6800 would not really fit. A 7800GT (which runs cooler and with less power than the 6 series) would be a perfect match.

Here's also something to think about. AMD is soon to be releasing their new lineup of CPUs to battle Intel's new Conroe offering. The Socket M2 architecture of the yet-to-be-released AM2 will use a 940 pin socket as opposed to the 939 pin socket found in the Athlon 64/X2/FX/Opteron.

I hope this is not too much to think about. Do you really need all this for programming and light gaming? I doubt you're the FPS type that needs the most powerful gaming system all the time. Oh, and even if you are, you'd have to upgrade your video card at the beginning of next year to take advantage of DirectX 10. :p

Just for fun, here is what I bought a few months back:

Antec PERFORMANCE TX TX1050B Black Steel Server Computer Case 500W ATX12V v2.0 Power Supply - Retail


BIOSTAR TForce4SLI Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

eVGA 256-P2-N516 Geforce 7800GT CO SE 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo 2000MHz HT Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADA4400CDBOX - Retail

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM

ZALMAN CNPS7000B-Cu LED 2 Ball Blue LED Light Cooling Fan - Retail

mushkin SP3200 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model 991130 - Retail

Total Cost: $1301

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr Unne

Questions:
1. Does anything I've listed here appear to be extremely senseless?
2. I could get the X2 4400 for $150 more. So tempting... worth it?
3. Does the processor comes with the fan and heat sink and thermal sludge etc.? Will I need an extra fan or anything?
4. Do I need a 450W power supply? I just threw it in there. I understand video cards use a lot of power, but I only plan to have one video card. I could get a cheapo case and power supply instead.
5. I plan to use my old Creative Audigy2 PCI card. Am I dumb?

I bow to your collective wisdom and experience.

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Looks good, but I would recommend using Corsair Value RAM instead of XMS (as long as it is cheaper) as it offers not much latency/speed difference and is generally a bit less expensive. (Run memtest86 once you get it, but it's worked great in all 7 or so computers I've built with it.)
Also, instead of the ASUS PSU, get a Coolermaster RS 450 ALCY:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817171001
I've been running one for a year powering a Geforce 6800 GT, 3 HDDs, and a Pentium dual core CPU (an overly power hungry CPU), and the PSU runs quietly and efficiently. It's also got active power factor correction and runs at a higher efficiency than most PSUs.

Anyway, just $0.02

Sean, I'm rapidly approaching $1300 too. Far too rapidly.

The SATA300 drives appear to be nearly the same price as the slower ones. Same with the RAM. I'd only save $20 getting the cheaper kind. I'd rather get whatever is least likely to break in a month or be dead on arrival. The speed doesn't really matter too much to me.

I really can't spend $300-400 on a video card. It's painful. I really will never use it.

I can't find any info on whether the 450W PSU Samuraid mentions is enough to run an X2 3800 or 4400 and the Geforce 6800. I have no idea about amperage vs. wattage. I don't see any such thing listed in the specs for the video card or CPU. In fact it lists voltage.

[qq=Yamaneko]Here's also something to think about. AMD is soon to be releasing their new lineup of CPUs to battle Intel's new Conroe offering. The Socket M2 architecture of the yet-to-be-released AM2 will use a 940 pin socket as opposed to the 939 pin socket found in the Athlon 64/X2/FX/Opteron. [/qq]

When it's released it's going to be expensive right? No matter what I buy, it's going to be obselete almost immediately. Another reason I hate computers. Even if I wait another year to get a socket 940, socket 973.7 will probably be coming in another couple months. I can't really wait.

[qq]I hope this is not too much to think about. Do you really need all this for programming and light gaming? I doubt you're the FPS type that needs the most powerful gaming system all the time.[/qq]

Oh, it is way too much to think about. A compelling reason I'd like a dual core is because GCC can use the dual cores for parallel compiling which is almost twice as fast. I spend 2 hours just recompiling Firefox twice a month. I think I can get plenty of use out of my CPU.

If I get a cheaper CPU now planning to get a better dual core later, I'm going to end up with a $150 chip that I have no use for and will probably sit in a box for the rest of my life. Then supposing I get a $150 discount on a dual core by waiting for the price to drop, I'll end up with the same thing anyways, but I'll have missed out on months of dual core goodness. Whatever I buy I'm probably going to be stuck with.

I may still go with a single core though. I'm probably looking at spending $400 just to save myself a few minutes a month. Blarg. At least I'm learning and I can make a more informed decision now.

Waaaaaaaaaay too much to think about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr Unne

I can't find any info on whether the 450W PSU Samuraid mentions is enough to run an X2 3800 or 4400 and the Geforce 6800.

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The 450W supply is definitely enough to run even an X2 4800+ and a 6800 Ultra and a few HDDs if you wanted.
I'm running a Pentium D830 (which uses far more power than an X2), 3 HDDs, a 6800GT, and a few optical drives off the 450W supply and it maintains stable operation even under 100% load on both CPU cores.

You can calculate you expected power usage here, which is roughly accurate:
http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/

EDIT:
Good power comparison charts:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/01/...lt/page19.html

Good amperage on a 12V rail is at least 18A or more. My PSU has 30A on the 12V rail. Very stable.

Thanks everyone for your help. I got everything I linked above except I got a different PSU. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817712002 It looks roughly similar to the one Samuraid linked to. I can't tell if it meets Yamaneko's requirements:

+3.3V@30A, +5V@35A, +12V1@18A, +12V2@16A, -12V@1.0A, +5VSB@2.5A

Gibberish to me. 18A or 16A at 12V, is what it looks like.

I had to get something today or else it wouldn't have gotten here before the 3-day weekend, so if I got a sucky PSU I guess I'll have to get another. No big deal. $890 total for everything after all rebates, not bad.

That's a dual rail PSU. You don't need as much amperage on each rail because you will have less components plugged into them. The user manual should tell you how to differentiate between the two rails. Ideally you want to power certain components on seperate rails. Mobo/GPU, GPU/HDD, Opticle Media Drives/GPU. Something like that. Maybe the GPU by itself because it takes the most power of any other component in your system.

Have fun with your new system... after you put it together. Of course Windows will ruin the experience. :)

So I gather my PSU should be adequate. That is good to know. Also I think I have finally grasped the meaning of the term "rail".

Yeah, that one should be more than adequate. :)

Thanks for the link of power consumption comparisons. My CPU seems to do pretty well there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yamaneko

Here's also something to think about. AMD is soon to be releasing their new lineup of CPUs to battle Intel's new Conroe offering. The Socket M2 architecture of the yet-to-be-released AM2 will use a 940 pin socket as opposed to the 939 pin socket found in the Athlon 64/X2/FX/Opteron.

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First test of the Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Socket AM2:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/328

Doesn't seem like the benefits of the 940 series will be seen soon enough to warrent waiting. Good job, Unne.

And http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/...nvents_itself/

It's nice they finally updated the memory controller to support higher RAM speeds. Intel's P4 line has been doing it for a while now.

By now I've pretty much missed all the action but...
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_To_...sing_the_parts
That helped me out.