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So I was watching Advent Children the other day, and all of a sudden I realized something. That Aeris and Zack are the Lifestream's eqivelent of the unsent. But what I don't understand is that isn't everyone supposed to return/meld back into the planet no matter how hard the try. (ex. Elmyra's husband) or are Cetran race able to maintain there original form/memories within the Lifestream. Can anyone explain the reason for this?
Things like her appearance in the game are not supposed to be analyzed. seriously.
I'm guessing that the soul of a person doesn't get recycled after they die in the game. just the....spiritual energy?
Also since Zack isn't a Cetra....
I'm not gonna point out that you're confusing games.
Chocobo hunter isn't comfusing gamesQuote:
Originally Posted by chocobo hunter
When Aeris and Zack appeared, just think of it as... a dream. They weren't REALLY there, Cloud's memories just created them, it happens ya kno?
The following is a public service announcement brought to you in part by Griff, who would like to remind you that if at any point of the movie something contradicts the game that he has two words for you: Plot Hole
Yes, with the exception of the Cetra. They had a special connection with the Planet. They probably have more control as to what happens to them after they die and when they are in the Lifestream. This is especially true for Aeris. She is able to actually control the Lifestream itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by chocobo hunter
As for Zack, he is not a Cetra, so when he died he was absorbed into the Lifestream just like any other normal person. What I think is that Aeris was lonely and wanted a companion, so she went and found Zack. That's why he appears at the end of AC.
The ending of AC is real. Aeris and Zack are actually there in the physical world. You can tell because Aeris is kneeling down beside two kids before she gets up to return to the Lifestream. What I think this means is that if Aeris wanted to, she could bring herself (and possibly Zack too) back into the physcial world, but she doesn't want to. She is telling Cloud that it's okay, and that she doesn't want to be resurrected.
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Originally Posted by Xurts
I'm liking most of this idea, EXCEPT:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xurts
wouldn't Zack's soul and memories have been "gone forever" and recycled unto the planet a little over 2 years earlier, and so it would have been too late for Aeris to die months after him and then decide to keep his soul and memories with her?
And what about that guy in Mideel during the game, pondering about what it would be like to drift around in a warm, gentle stream after he dies?
I seriously think that the souls (along with their memories and thoughts) of the people are supposed to remain intact and active when they return to the lifestream whether they are Ancients or not, but the physical energy created by their existence is recycled in order to form new life.
I do like your "self ressurection" idea, as only Aeris or other Cetra would have the power to bring themselves or others back.
That's probably how it is. I'm sure Aeris went and found Zack's soul in the Lifestream, and helped him from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentenigma
Whatever it was, I am sure that Zack didn't do it by himself. He had to have some help from Aeris.
Thanks.
i thought the web novel The Maiden Who traveled the Planet explained what aeris did in the lifestream? here's a link btw http://www.ffcompilation.co.uk/maide...the_planet.php
That is great, atlanteay. Thanks a bunch for the link.
Shinentai, no. Ghost/ Astral Projection, more likely. Simply put, given Aerith's personality, were she a Shinentai, she would have done something a lot less understated.
Wow, that is a great story. It gave alot of information. I just wish it would've covered the events in AC too. I don't suppose anyone knows of a sequel, do they?
Not really sequels, but even more novellas. (Translated.)
http://www.ff7citadel.com/compilation/ac_smile.shtml
Probably won't be exactly what you're looking for, but it does give more info into Advent Children, and Denzel.
I personally think she and Zack forgot to catch the FFVI Phantom Train and wandered away for the station
if they were the VII version of "Unsent" they would have eventually turned into Fiends... that and who would send them in such an alternate universe.Quote:
Originally Posted by chocobo hunter
I think maybe they would have been avatared perhaps by Clouds influence toward the lifestream and the relationships he once had with them, as you see, throughout the film the combination of the Geostigma and the Jenova cells once .... something something
eh I am ranting.
Its only a rumour.
FFX and FFVII are the same continuity. In addition It is entirely possible, in fact, PROVEN, that unsent- AKA: Shinentai- exist in FF7's time and planet. It's what Kadaj and Co. were.
So midgar = Zanarkand! It would almost make some sense. Sin does seem to be rather.. Goestimatic in function too :)
i remember hearing people say that ffx is in the same universe sort of thing as ff7. Where's the proof of this? hmm sin could be like jenova and geostigma could be sin toxic:p
Nojima made such a statement, unfortunately. We can only hope he was on narcotics when he said it.
i don't see much similarities in the two games and i don't want to see it. It's just not original :eep:
i believe that statement that cloud had over-exposure to lifestream and mako so he can see them. That still doesn't explain the two kids.
I wish I had a link to it, but Nojima basically said that the descendants of Shinra in FFX-2 eventually developed space-travel and journeyed to the world of Final Fantasy VII, and eventually founded the Shinra corporation. (Yeah, small details, but its ridiculous enough as it is.)
I don't really like it either, but he's the writer, and its there.
Well that makes sense, except for the fact that if Shinra's descendents had the technology and knowledge to travel through space, why was it suddenly lost when they reached the new planet?
I dont think that was ever true, not even in FFX. I mean, all the unsents were basically regular people. Seymour, Mika, Belgemine, Yunalesca, Maechen, none of them turned into fiends....Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukasa
I think that whole thing was something made up by Yevon to prevent people from NOT sending and having people come back to life.
As for this topic, I guess you could say that. She hasnt ever seemed to just "disappear" like other people do when they die. Her presence was always around, and in AC, she just out of nowhere shows up!
Agreed. There is enough damn FF7 crap the way it is. Another game related to it is ridiculous. Enough already Square. Make something original.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeromus_X
They're different planets, but hey, Jenova and Sin could be related, since a number of Spirans did migrate over to GaiaQuote:
Originally Posted by bipper
Nope. Not only has he said numerous times that it was his intention from the start, it's been put into official publications.Quote:
Nojima made such a statement, unfortunately. We can only hope he was on narcotics when he said it.
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Well that makes sense, except for the fact that if Shinra's descendents had the technology and knowledge to travel through space, why was it suddenly lost when they reached the new planet?
Crash landing, Jenova related incident causes them to abandon and eventually forget it, until Cid uncovers it later, they simply abandon it as they are converted to the Cetra way of life. Any number of reasons could have happened. It's not like forgotten technology is anything NEW for the FF series. FFT is a fallen society that used to have technological marvels such as airships. If you're critical of the Spirans for losing such a technology, be critical of the Ivalicians, too.
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Originally Posted by Rhi
Its a good little thread, I never really thought about Aeris and Zack in that way. Maybe because I didnt think about a tiny Final Fantasy "crossover."Quote:
Originally Posted by starseeker
Lets not forget the whole Sin vs Technology & sloth vendetta going on as well. :screwy: hey, whateverQuote:
Originally Posted by Ryushikaze
in Final Fantasy VII Advent Children Reunion Files, Nojima said,
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"Since Sephiroth exists, Aerith must exist. There was no doubt about that one (laughs). The incredible guilt Cloud feels because of what happened to aerith can only be lifted by forgiveness from Aerith herself."
Meaning...?
Aerith is the directing concious of the Lifestream. Really all you need to know.
anyone remember Aeris' last words? "I'm going now. I'll come back when it's all over."Quote:
Originally Posted by Xurts
simple: she's going to bring herself back one day to finish her work on Earth.
Remember how she said that when she thought she wasn't going to die? Aerith ISN'T coming back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acula, MD
obviously Square said that she can come back. Sephiroth can and so can Aerith. They didn't give out too much explainations because they think it's so OBVIOUS that if sephiroth came, then so can aerith. She is a Cetra afterall, so she can probably do extrodinary things.
With the correlations between final fantasy X (memories formed in their pyrflies - thier lifestream) and Final Fantasy VII (thier physical lifestream native to the planet, prehaspe there is a lot more to be said between memories and the actualy ... life... of the life stream?
Sephioth refuses to just become a memory, Arieth is prolly happy as a memory. She is unhappy when her memory causes those she loved, Cloud. Also, unsents become fiends if they do not accept death - prehapse this has somting to do with sephy?
Whoe knows - this is kinda fun though.
Obviously Square doesn't think that this is a very big deal that requires a lot of explaination. Their tone was almost like "common sense! duh! of course she'll come back!!" so i don't think they expect all this depth of explanation.
i think aeris is sort of like Maester Mika and Auron. She died peacefully and can come back but she stays in the lifestream to tend the planet or something. Hmm, if she really is like Auron, then she's kind of selfish to leave everyone grieving over her when she can just come and go.
I'm confusing myself:confused: pretend i didn't say a thing
Sephiroth could only come back because of his insane desire and willpower to do so, and even he came back fragmented.
Aerith may have the power to project images, but there's nothing to suggest she can become a true shinentai, and a lot to suggest she can't, or at the very least does not want to.
Even if the two games are in the same universe, they don't follow the same rules. FFX was made well after FFVII. They haven't 'fixed up' FFVII's rules to conform to FFX's and they aren't going to. It's silly to think of it that way.
They're similar concepts but they aren't the same. You could probably say all FFs are in the same Universe, because each game has a similarity. However, the similarity doesn't make them the same.
If Aeris COULD come back, she should have... before Sephiroth's meteor came down. But oh well. I don't think she wanted to, if she could have. She wanted to stay with Zack, so that means she probably couldn't bring anyone back but herself.
Too many different possibilities.
They don't have to. Different planets with different lifestreams. Spira's lifestream is a lot more chaotic and unorganized than Gaia's, and shinentai form far easier.
G spotz, while one could argue that, the case is different for FF7 and 10, since they've said they were written with continuity in mind.
I think its just a nod towards the rumor that u can see Aeris at the Church in Sector 5 after she dies in the game
It's not a rumor.
Nor does it require her to be dead.
whatever but I think the scene is just a reference to that
I disagree. What do you base this on?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryushikaze
Shinra in FFX-2 just made a vague reference just for fun. I don't think that makes connected at all.
As for Shinentai-How about the fact that Vincent refered to them as Shinentai explicitly? The fact that when Kadaj died, he turned immediately into pyreflies, instead of a body like everyone else?
As for their continuity, Nojima said he wrote 10 and 10-2 with the intend of continuity with seven. This has now been included in an Ultimania. Look at Squall of Seed's FF7AC faq for further info.
oh, smurf you Nojima :(. Stop ruining things.
Can't deny it, but I still think it's stupid.
I don't think it makes sense at all, how the heck would the planet change so much? It would take millions of years. So, FFX's Spirans are FF7's ancients? Wait, no. The people of spira would have had to wipe themselves nearly completely out, then the cetra later arrived and did their stuff. The people of spira must have either lived with nearly no technology for millions of years, or they nearly wiped themselves out just in time fot the Cetra to come. Yet, we see no evidence of ancient Spira technology thorough FF7.
This is just made of pure stupid. Someone fire that guy, before he smurfs up more stuff. Next we'll find out Aeris is actually Madonna, Tina's mother.
No. They're different planets. I said that earlier in this very thread.
And actually, we do see some Spiran tech in Gaia. The Sierra is based on ancient spiran technology that was lost somewhere in Gaia's past.
I didn't read that far back.
Well, then we have two different planets that developed nearly identical life forms. they should just leave the already finished games alone. What was the point of doing it anyway. Just so they could put a reference to it in X-2, or an airship that easily could have been explained with different things.
It just doesn't make any sense at all to me.
Yeah. He just said they're in the same universe. He obviously didn't plan it out very well, as they don't follow the same rules. I guess he can be credited with being creative (or something), but he isn't really the smartest chip on the block.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeromus_X
The airship is an airship. It's a Final Fantasy. Final Fantasies have airships. Cid made the airship. Final Fantasies have Cids. Cids usually make the airships or do something related to technology. It doesn't all go all the way back to X; VII was made before X.
I agree. That was just ....bad. I can't think of any words for it. What got Square so ****ing obsessed with FF7 anyway? GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON PEOPLE. Enough already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
The thought of them being related makes me want to punch whoever thought of it in the face for thinking up something so incredibly stupid. Ugh.
Your forgetting that Zack was shot full of modified DNA along with Cloud. Why would he need Aeris' help?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xurts
There has also been very definate statments that they are not bringing Aeris "back". They never intended to and never intend to.
He was not a Cetra. It seems that he didn't need help though, because he was the one that found Aeris in the Lifestream.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrianna
I never said anything about Square intending to revive Aeris. Where did you get that from?
Well, it's not like he was totally unaided. He was kind of woken up by Aerith, though accidentally. You are correct about him finding her on his own, though.
Not you, the others who keep commenting that she could come back the same way Sephiroth did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xurts