Lawful Good?

Am I the only one sick of being stufck with this alignment through almost every Japanese RPG?
I want to be more free to do what I want in Japanese RPGs, and not always have to choose the "morally correct" options. I understand that it can't affect the main story too much though, but I can't really see the problem in "persuading" a shopkeeper to give me a discount by force. Remember that the world I'm trying to save is the same world as his crappy shop is in anyway.
I want to be able to form my own character a bit more, and to let that affect many things that are not crucial to the main plot.

What do you all think?

Well, not all RPGs are like that, but I see what you mean. The only RPG I can think of that doesn't have that same alignment with the main characters is (SPOILER)Tales of Phantasia, when the team ends up destroying the antagonist's home planet by defeating him.

But yes, what you're saying would be interesting. 'Shape your character' and what-not. It's actually surprising that console RPGs haven't developed scenarios or whatever for this kind of thing by now, at least not many that I know of.

JRPGs generally take out the "role playing" aspect in preference of just "on-rails stat-based story game" but they still call them RPGs because ORSBSG sounds like a garbled mess.

:)

I couldn't agree with you more.

Well, is the destroying of his home planet optional or not? I'm not against being the hero, but do I always have to be a lawful good hero?
In Disgaea you were an antihero, which was a very nice change. However, you were still not able to change your alignment based on your own choices.
The only things I see that touch this subject is personal relationships between the playable characters, but their choices don't change the outcome of subquest very much at all.
Non-partyleader: "Let's go here, what do you say, Mr. Leader?"
*Player gets to choose yer or no.*
Partyleader: "I want to do this instead!"
Non-partyleader: "But that's not smart, go there anyway, else something bad will happen to innocent NPCs"
Partyleader: "OKAY! :("

-edit-
This was in reply to Zeromus' post.

Also, I can see that the example I used would be smart if the NPC in question was crucial to the story. But in very many cases, that is not the case.

It could be fun to end up with different conversations at the final showdown too. Such as a main character filled with feelings of hate and revenge towards the villain versus one that fights for justice and a better world.

It wasn't really the best example, (SPOILER)the villain was just another evil sadistic type villain, until he at the final battle explains what his motivation is. So you find it out at the very end of the game, while being the goody-two-shoes hero throughout the rest of the story.

Unfortunately, most optional things to 'shape' your character only determine minor things, and not really the outcome of the story. (Ex: Private Actions in SO, I'm sure you know about those), which just determine minor things but don't actually change the entire story.

Chaotic Good > Lawful Good

I couldnt agree with you more Mirage, its getting kinda lame.

However in Shin Megami Tensei: Lucifer's Call, you have many different paths you can take, and theres about 5 or 6 endings, eg, destroy the world, save the world, etc

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Originally Posted by Reine

However in Shin Megami Tensei: Lucifer's Call, you have many different paths you can take, and theres about 5 or 6 endings, eg, destroy the world, save the world, etc

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Yes, it's stuff like that I'd like to see in a CRPG.

I don't really mind very linear story telling. It could be cool to choose and truly be the character and what not if it was handled well. I'd like to choose relationships more myself. I'm sick of being forced to date ridiculous people like Rinoa.

I don't care when RPGs follow the standard setup they have now as long as the story is interesting, but that's really not the case. I'm tired of getting the same game from different companies all the time. So choices could definitely save me from rescuing the world all over again. Maybe once I want to burn down a village and give somebody else amnesia!

I really would prefer more nonlinear games. Especially those that don't follow the standard JRPG setup, as that's getting kind of old.

I would agree with you, but whenever I can do something bad in a game, unless my secret-finding intuition kicks in, I'll always play nice. I don't even use Cyber-Elves in Megaman Zero because they die when you use them. :p

What about both KoTOR games? You got to choose whether you wanted to be good or evil, and even choosing one alignment didn't restrict your actions to only that alignment's type of actions.

Your alignment isn't something you choose though, it's shaped by your actions.
If you say "Well I'll be good and lawful" and then go off to slaughter a village, you are chaotic evil, no matter what you chose earlier.

Umm...it may not be a jap game....i think, but I know in Fable you can choose what you do, and your allignment is chosen on your actions, not by yourself. Its not FF style rpg, more everquest and stuff, but its what you're looking for none-the-less.

Yeah, Fable did it. I think it's present in those Forgotten Realms and Elder Scrolls games too.

They don't have to pull it as far as these games, but atleast something like it would be cool.

Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 do it.

they also make it so your characters status can change depending on there actions :)


edit: as for non linear games - I reccomend Conquer Online as a simple first.

Yes, NWN is a Forgotten Realms game, if I'm not mistaken.

Yes it is and, they have a cool system. The more evil you get the more evil you look wich I like :D

I haven't played it yet and only seen people play it so correct me if I'm wrong, but what about the new city of heroes/city of vilians mmorpg that's out. You can pick whether to be good or evil.

I also think KotOR ans Fable pulled off the good/evil thing the best.

Stay Essential
EE

Yes, Japanese RPGs tend to be a sort of scripted, linear experience. Western RPGS (especially those from Bioware, and Bethesda) tend to be very free to mould the story based on what you do. To take Oblivion as an example; there is a linear story in the game that progresses the same way, but it's the stuff outside of the story that you can do. You don't have to save the world, you can just exist. Some people don't really like open-ended games like that, but some people can get tired of linear stories.
Get Oblivion, and keep an eye on Mass Effect (it might come out on PC...)

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Originally Posted by Bert

Yes it is and, they have a cool system. The more evil you get the more evil you look wich I like :D

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thats fable bro.

Also NWN and knight of the old republic.

I really like the stories, battle systems and character progression systems of japanese RPGs though, I prefer them to the style of western RPGs. Just want them to have a bit more of the roleplaying part :p.

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Originally Posted by Bert

Also NWN and knight of the old republic.

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o_o

I must have never noticed cause my characters always had full armour (unless a monk... in which I always made Lawful Neutral)





in reply to Mirage.

I also reckon RPGs should have a little more pleasent roleplay, and I am sure that in the future, roleplay will get alot deeper minded or something.

Oh! Check out Steambot Chronicles. You might like that for a change.

I agree. I've always wondered what it'd be like if you could make Rikku fall in love with Tidus by doing certain things for her, etc.

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Originally Posted by DeathKnight

I agree. I've always wondered what it'd be like if you could make Rikku fall in love with Tidus by doing certain things for her, etc.

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or you could do it gta: san andreas style and pimp all the womens....and I think rikku wa inlove with tidus. At one point anyway.

Stay Essential
EE

Its like that in Ogre Battle.... Sometimes I'm too chaotic to get Paladins or sometimes im too lawful to get Black Knights. I try to go out of my way to get someone lawful or chaotic and it ends up affecting someone else. But the item clone glitch fixes that problem.

My character in Oblivion is Inexplicably evil!!!!! Mwahahahaha! I slaughtered almost all of the towns..so when i walk around them nobody is even there...

Note that the best examples of the non-linear make your own character's alignment games are American games. That's because for whatever reason Japanese game makers don't seem to want to do that.

The Japanese "silent hero" stereotype would probably bother me a lot less if you could actually make the hero's decisions what you would do. I've resigned myself to the fact that JRPGs are there to tell a story, so it annoys me when what seems to me like they try to have it both ways. It's kind of like you want to shout at the game "if the hero is supposed to represent me let me make my own damn choices!"

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Am I the only one sick of being stufck with this alignment through almost every Japanese RPG?
I want to be more free to do what I want in Japanese RPGs, and not always have to choose the "morally correct" options. I understand that it can't affect the main story too much though, but I can't really see the problem in "persuading" a shopkeeper to give me a discount by force. Remember that the world I'm trying to save is the same world as his crappy shop is in anyway.
I want to be able to form my own character a bit more, and to let that affect many things that are not crucial to the main plot.

What do you all think?

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Because Elder Scrolls sucks?

I like being forced to live a story, the cinematical rpg, as they were coined, is good fun in itself - but I believe you hit the nail on the head - they are not true RPGs.

Bipper

Baulder's gate gets some what close, but still meh.