RPG Making programs

So, Rase's EoFF RPG has definitely struck a nerve, and now I really want to make my own RPG. So, I'm looking for an RPG Maker of some sort that, if possible, will allow for certain dialogue scripts. I want more complete choices than "yes" or "no" (a la Baldur's Gate, where you can have whole sentences. Not necessarily that large amount of text, but enough to convey a certain thought), and the ability to have diverging paths in the storyline. Other additional features are nice, but not requisite. Can the RPG Maker do this? Or do I need to use a different program.

Oh, and I'm also considering using a classical-heavy score. Would I need to use primarily Midi files? And if so, can you do anything to Mp3's to compress them to make them usable?

RPG maker can do what you’re describing quite easily with 'fork events'. As for which RPG Maker program to use, it depends how much programming you know. RPG Maker XP is the most recent version, but it's very inflexible if you don't know how to edit scripts with Ruby. RPG Maker 2003 may be the better choice in this case, which has more pre-set event commands to choose from.

Really though, 2003 is geared more towards FF type games (it comes with an ATB battle system) where as XP is geared towards Dragon Quest type games. I've never seen someone try to make a traditional CRPG like Baldur’s Gate, but I'm sure it's possible. You're pretty much SOL if you want to make a battle system like BG in 2003 though; you definitely need to use the Ruby scripting in XP for that sort of thing.

I'm willing to settle for whatever battle system the game has to offer, I just want to make sure that I can make a cool story of it, and I am growing bored with the terribly linear characters that don't give you any choice of development. And dammit, I want the main character to end up BAD.

Also, is it possible to do job progression? Like change from Fighter to Paladin or whatever?

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Originally Posted by Behold the Void

I'm willing to settle for whatever battle system the game has to offer, I just want to make sure that I can make a cool story of it, and I am growing bored with the terribly linear characters that don't give you any choice of development. And dammit, I want the main character to end up BAD.

Also, is it possible to do job progression? Like change from Fighter to Paladin or whatever?

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The storyline is absolutely yours for the twisting with RPG Maker XP. I have zero experience with scripting but I have managed to make quite an in-depth plot with this engine. As for making character choices affect the outcome of the story, it's entirely possible! You just have to keep track of the splits in decision-making and come up with separate plotlines. The developement is yours with which to tinker. Also, to answer your previous post, the decisions can be made into sentences and don't have to be limited to yes/no. The sentences can't be very long but you do have some room for creativity. :D Job progression is also feasible but would require decent scripting abilities to make it possible to change jobs on the go. I can't help you there, though...

Good luck!

A job system would take a lot of time to impliment, but it's possible. Basic transformations like Dark Knight Cecil changing to Paladin Cecil would be very easy to do. Although keep in mind that this would probably require you to draw a lot of the sprites yourself...

Anything is possible in XP, pretty much. As long as you can do scripts. I remember a site (I forgot it though), and they had tons of scripts for this kind of stuff. You can do a lot with scripting, but it can be hard. I used some scripts without any knowledge of scripting, because the maker gave good directions on how to use it. I say go for XP.

Edit: In fact, you can do a lot of stuff without RUBY. My friend Bakerman could make it so you could walk around, and if you had the necessary items, you could start a fire and cook food over it. Its a pretty flexible program, but you need to get used to using it, and a lot of the features.

The Dark Knight Cecil to Paladin Cecil is basically what I have in mind, although possibly without having to restart at 1st level.

It's easy enough. What I would do would be to have two separate characters: One Dark Knight version and one Paladin Version. When you make the change you could simply remove the Dark Knight from your party, add the Paladin and set the Paladin's level to that of the Dark Knight.

You could also use something like Multi-Media Fusion, Games Factory, or Game Maker. It would take a long time to learn how to use these but I think they could offer more flexability than RPGMaker (at least, the RPG Maker I remember from 5 or 6 years ago).

Adventure Games Studio also can be used to create RPGs, although you need to use the AGS-scripting language to do so.

In my opinion, if you're going to learn a scripting language built into one of these game makers (ie. RUBY or the AGS-script), I say learn BASIC or even C++. It takes alot more brainpower and determination, but it DEFINITELY offers far more flexibility and room for originality than any game maker can offer.

What would learning these programming codes permit me to do? And how would I best go about learning them? Bear in mind this is to be a "for fun" project, but one I am willing to devote some time into making good (hence it will probably take me forever and 20 years to complete, what with university and all). Bottom line is I'm willing to go through some trouble to make it good, but I don't have all the time in the world to tinker with it, it'd be more of an "in my spare time" thing.

Well, the thing is that RPG maker will get the job done, but if you wanted total, unrestricted control over how you go about making the game you would probably only get that through making the game in C++ or something. Thing is, making a game that way would first require you to become very comfortable with the C++ language and it's not the easiest thing in the world to learn. Really, for a part time project that your just doing for fun I would consider RPG Maker your best choice.

Hooray for long posts!

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Originally Posted by Behold the Void

So, Rase's EoFF RPG has definitely struck a nerve, and now I really want to make my own RPG. So, I'm looking for an RPG Maker of some sort that, if possible, will allow for certain dialogue scripts. I want more complete choices than "yes" or "no" (a la Baldur's Gate, where you can have whole sentences. Not necessarily that large amount of text, but enough to convey a certain thought), and the ability to have diverging paths in the storyline. Other additional features are nice, but not requisite. Can the RPG Maker do this? Or do I need to use a different program.

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RPG Maker can handle it quite easily. Here is a quick step-by step:
Click Show Choices.
Here you can change the up to four choices.
Using the Message command, you can create the four trees however you like. Here I have it so after you make a choice, the player repeats it, as if they are talking.

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Originally Posted by Behold the Void

Oh, and I'm also considering using a classical-heavy score. Would I need to use primarily Midi files? And if so, can you do anything to Mp3's to compress them to make them usable?

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Midi files are your best bet, due to the size. Charas has a good number of midis, ranging from game-rips to original tracks. There are bound to be plenty more out on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Behold the Void

Also, is it possible to do job progression? Like change from Fighter to Paladin or whatever?

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Yes. More on that later.

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Originally Posted by Genji

Anything is possible in XP, pretty much. As long as you can do scripts. I remember a site (I forgot it though), and they had tons of scripts for this kind of stuff. You can do a lot with scripting, but it can be hard. I used some scripts without any knowledge of scripting, because the maker gave good directions on how to use it. I say go for XP.

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There are also a good number of pre-made scripts for RPG Maker XP. Here is a good range of examples, from Custom Menu Systems to a Random Loot Script to a Personality Engine. Most require simple Copy/Paste jobs, and those that don't are usually fairly detailed in their descriptions.

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Originally Posted by Genji

Edit: In fact, you can do a lot of stuff without RUBY. My friend Bakerman could make it so you could walk around, and if you had the necessary items, you could start a fire and cook food over it. Its a pretty flexible program, but you need to get used to using it, and a lot of the features.

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Just as an example of how you would do this:
Choose Conditional Branch.
Here you can make a variety of preconditions for things to happen, from needing an item to having a party member to having a certain weapon or piece of armor equiped.
You can also "stack" conditions. Here, you need both Firewood and Flint to make a fire. Choosing "Yes turns on a switch...
Which can change the event to another page, with entirely different possibilities.

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Originally Posted by Behold the Void

The Dark Knight Cecil to Paladin Cecil is basically what I have in mind, although possibly without having to restart at 1st level.

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Originally Posted by Lilliputian Hitcher

It's easy enough. What I would do would be to have two separate characters: One Dark Knight version and one Paladin Version. When you make the change you could simply remove the Dark Knight from your party, add the Paladin and set the Paladin's level to that of the Dark Knight.

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A much easier option would be to simply use the "Change Hero Class" event command. Especially since I'm not sure how you would make it so the game changed one characters level to reflect that of another.

That would still require you to change the character's sprite and remove any old skills that they had (iirc) though.

Not really that difficult, but I would have thought that just having two seperate characters would be easier.

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Originally Posted by Lilliputian Hitcher

That would still require you to change the character's sprite and remove any old skills that they had (iirc) though.

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Very true, I forgot about that.

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Originally Posted by Lilliputian Hitcher

Not really that difficult, but I would have thought that just having two seperate characters would be easier.

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The only ways I can think of doing this are if you KNOW what a characters level will be (and set the new characters starting level to that), did something with variables (I'm not to knowledgeable about these, so it may be a possibility or not) or if you use some sort of script. I may be wrong here, but to my knowledge there aren't any other ways to "transfer" one characters level to another.

C++, as the hitchhiker suggested. Duh! The better answer would be not JAVA ;)

Actually, for your skillset, I think learning Java would be beneficial, as you would have the control of C and a lot more ease of use. There are some tricks with threading and such you will get into later, but JAVA will ease you nicely into the ends. It is supprisingly not much harder than RPG maker code - you just have a lot more to work with. Bantam is gonna smite me if he sees this :(

Bipper

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Originally Posted by Lilliputian Hitcher

That would still require you to change the character's sprite and remove any old skills that they had (iirc) though.

Not really that difficult, but I would have thought that just having two seperate characters would be easier.

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But you wouldn't have to change the skills if theyw ere job based, changing the job/class would change the kills, and if they were Hero only skills then you could just add another line in the evennt code thing after the job change, wouldnt be that hard.

Rase's method actually works, especially since I'll be making custom "Advanced" Classes that should have the same basic skillsets with more advanced ones, and the class advancement will really just be getting stronger, kind of like in Final Fantasy I or Seiken Densetsu III.

By the looks of it, I can set it so that a certain amount of script requirements are met. So would I be wrong in assuming that I could make it so that if you've answered at the very least, say, 3 out of 5 choices, you end up with x path?

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Originally Posted by Behold the Void

By the looks of it, I can set it so that a certain amount of script requirements are met. So would I be wrong in assuming that I could make it so that if you've answered at the very least, say, 3 out of 5 choices, you end up with x path?

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You'd be completely right, I believe. Give me a minute and I'll check and, if so, put up a screen or two for reference. I'm almost 100% certain you can, though it would be a little complicated and may use variables.

EDIT: Here you go...
Choose Variable Operation
Variables are basically number-keepers. You can add a number to a variable from here, and it will store that number. Variables are mainly used in conjunction with the Conditional Branch command, as you will see.
Here I have a series of questions with two answers. Depending on what answer is picked, a variable is increased by one.
After all five questions, use the Conditional Branch command and make two of them, identical except for the variable they're using. Make sure they are set to what you want it to use to determine what happens, be it >, <, >=, <=, etc.
Here is the finished product. After the part where it tells you what you are, you would change the class, sprite, skills, etc. to fit that decision.

This is just one example of many. You can have it so that, depending on what you answer, you will get different quests, different equipment, different skills, or gain access to different locations, to name a few more.

If you want to, I'd settle with downloading a (SPOILER)pirated version of the latest RPG Maker XP off torrentspy or something. If you have the time to invest in, it can be loads of fun, or the most annoying thing you'll ever do. You got the innovated ideas, just so much as applying it into the program that was hard for me. :)

Neverwinter Nights has a nice editor as part of its package. Not free, but definitely more like Baldur's Gate than RPG Maker is.

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Originally Posted by Rase

The only ways I can think of doing this are if you KNOW what a characters level will be (and set the new characters starting level to that), did something with variables (I'm not to knowledgeable about these, so it may be a possibility or not) or if you use some sort of script. I may be wrong here, but to my knowledge there aren't any other ways to "transfer" one characters level to another.

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I'm not sure about XP, but in 2003 you could set a variable to the same value as the level of a party member. You can then add the amount of levels stored in a variable to a character. So all you would have to do is remove the Dark Knight from the party, create an event that sets a variable to his level then subtract one from this variable (to compensate for the fact that the Paladin will start at level 1), put the Paladin in the party and add the amount of levels in the variable to him.

This works in 2003, but as I said I haven't checked if you can do the same in XP.

*checks if XP is still installed*

EDIT: Yep, looks like you can do the same in XP as well.

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Originally Posted by Lilliputian Hitcher

I'm not sure about XP, but in 2003 you could set a variable to the same value as the level of a party member. You can then add the amount of levels stored in a variable to a character. So all you would have to do is remove the Dark Knight from the party, create an event that sets a variable to his level then subtract one from this variable (to compensate for the fact that the Paladin will start at level 1), put the Paladin in the party and add the amount of levels in the variable to him.

This works in 2003, but as I said I haven't checked if you can do the same in XP.

*checks if XP is still installed*

EDIT: Yep, looks like you can do the same in XP as well.

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Man, variables are even more useful than I thought. I've been trying to solve this problem myself in my own RPG and had just given up today, but thanks to you I now know a way around that problem. Thank you for the correction, and the helpful information. :)

I've been considering using Flash to make something like this.

Which would mean that it would be an embedded object in the browser and not require any installation (Assuming you're one of the 75% of computer owners that have the lastest flash player).

But that would mean that you'd have to code most of the things that come as standard in these RPG packages. And it would, of course, require that you own flash.

As for the story goes...RPG Maker allows you to turn goody goody characters into bad asses that´s what i´ve done turn former friends into enemies that´s what makes RPG´s unique not the same old good guy beats the hell out of bad guy.:mad:

Err, I'm pretty sure the whole 'good guy turned bad guy' thing is just as cliché now days as fighting the same guy throughout the entire game.

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Originally Posted by Lilliputian Hitcher

Err, I'm pretty sure the whole 'good guy turned bad guy' thing is just as cliché now days as fighting the same guy throughout the entire game.

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It depends on how you put the concept, if you make a good plot around it and if the passage to bad is smooth and step by step then the player becomes interested in it and wants to keep playing just to see that transformation. I´m not talking about a sudden change.

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Originally Posted by Lilliputian Hitcher

Err, I'm pretty sure the whole 'good guy turned bad guy' thing is just as cliché now days as fighting the same guy throughout the entire game.

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It depends on how it's handled, and I tend to make my bad guys just a lot more ruthless and a lot more willing to employ brutaller means to achieve their ends. So they think they're wholly justified in what they're doing. It will come down, essentially, to how brutally the player plays their character when the choice arises. Of course that'll be yet more work for me, but if I can pull it off it should be fun.

So you will give a good side and a dark side that the player can choose from?
It sounds like Dark Forces II.

You could also try this:

http://www.toolkitzone.com/

I don't know how good it is in comparison to RPG Maker XP but it's totally freeware. And the community around it gives a lot of support.

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Originally Posted by Her Majesty's Agent Umaro

Neverwinter Nights has a nice editor as part of its package. Not free, but definitely more like Baldur's Gate than RPG Maker is.

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youd be suprised.

the scripting allows you to totally change the game... if you have the smarts.

A friend of mine, BigKev coded a first-person view system into Rpg Maker XP. That's how flexible it can be. With enough smarts you could even make a battle system much like Final Fantasy Tactics. I'm sure BigKev would be able to handle it - he's a god with the scripting process of games.

But honestly, the things that you guys are asking are more than child's play if you're even slightly competent with the program. The easiest way to change class is to take advantage of the CLASS aspect of Rm2k3. It makes sense.