Sorry for the hassel. I was wondering...

I haven't played FFXI yet.
But I see a lot of Guides, yet people, who say the same.

Like the main job of a Warrior is to Tank.
And Black Mage is to cast Black Magic.

I understand everything so far and makes sence to me.

What I don't understand is why a character can't be multi-functional.

Say for example, I'm a Warrior. So I'm though, have high HP, some defence and can endure anything.
And Place my sub-job (let's keep it physical like Dark-Knight or Paladin, and no Mages of course.)

Say I'm the Tank, my sol purpose is to draw hate from the enemy so that he attacks me instead of one of my weaker friends (makes sense) what doesn't is the thing you cannot attack back.

WTF??
That part, I don't understand.

It's like I'm in the woods with two of my friend and say I'm the biggest and thoughest. The technique you say is that the bigger one (I) would draw the bear on him while the others hit him and bassicly being digested by the bear while hoping your friends will kill it before.
That makes no sence.
I mean, shouldn't a character be at least independant (self reliant?)
That he could take the damage while still deal good damage. ??

Tell me what you think and wth is all that. I mean, come on! Is this supposed to be fun? Powerless of action, must always rely on others, without other.. you are nothing??

Please someone explain this to me, I don't understand your theory at all.

Oh, And I was think of mixing theses Jobs:

-Black Mage / White Mage
-Paladin / Dark Knight
-Warrior / Dragoon (Not sure about this one, just tell me a good War combination.)

What do you think?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by King-Killer

Say I'm the Tank, my sol purpose is to draw hate from the enemy so that he attacks me instead of one of my weaker friends (makes sense) what doesn't is the thing you cannot attack back.

---

It appears someone has told you that you cannot attack as a tank? That is absolute rubbish. You attack, it's just as a tanking job you don't tend to deal very much damage. Your role as a Tank is to bear all the damage with a high defense. The monster takes less damage from you, therefore the healer is left with more MP to heal you, which means you and you team mates have more time to deal damage to the monster. As a tank I tend to try and do as much damage as I can aswell as take damage, but only if dealing that damage does not impede my role as a tank in any way.

Quote:

---

I mean, come on! Is this supposed to be fun? Powerless of action, must always rely on others, without other.. you are nothing??

---

You don't always rely on others, but for a lot of tasks you will have to.

Quote:

---

Oh, And I was think of mixing theses Jobs:

-Black Mage / White Mage
-Paladin / Dark Knight
-Warrior / Dragoon (Not sure about this one, just tell me a good War combination.)

What do you think?

---

Sadly, the Jobs you can sub with each Job are limited to what other players want you to have as a Subjob.

Black / White mage
This is a very good combo, if you're going to sub anything as a Black Mage, White Mage is the way forward.

Paladin / Dark Knight
Although it may seem like a match made in heaven these two jobs really shouldn't be combined, this is because the role of both of these Jobs are complete opposites. A Dark Knight is required to deal as much damage as possible whereas a Paladin is Required to take harsh beatings from enemys. Dark Knights wear Emnity - equipment (Reduces the likelyhood that an enemy will target you) whereas Paladins have Emnity + equipment (Increase the likelyhood that a monster will target you).

For Paladin you will probably need to sub Warrior, as much as I believe there are better subs people are stupid and won't entrust a Paladin to tank without Provoke.

Warrior / Dragoon
I don't see may of these around, but I don't see why not apart from the fact that you can't call your Wyvern. The only reason I can think of to sub this is the accuracy bonuses Dragoon has.

I'd say it would be better the other way 'round.

What scottNUMBERS said.

You are dealing damage, just not as much of it because you have to choose high def or high attack.

Don't forget that a sub job is only able to max out at half or your main. So if you sub a Smn for example to your lvl 50 Whm, your summons will only be operating at lvl 25.

This also applies to Job Abilities. Say at lvl 5 a war gets provoke (not sure on the actual lvl) but your Pld is only lvl 9. You won't have provoke until lvl 10 Pld making your sub max at lvl 5 :D

subjobbing dragoon is pretty popular right now, specifically because of the wyvern earring, which has latent effect haste+5%(everybody's all horny for haste lately) and is triggered by subbing drg. It's really only useful for a tp build, you'll still want str or att in that slot for war later on for ws, but at least people aren't going to hastle you for going war/drg like they would have a few months ago when they weren't thinking of the earring, which has been around btw for a hella long time, just nobody thought of it.

Since you've read up on Final Fantasy XI, I'm sure you've become aware of how party oriented the game is. Because of this, each job is required to have a specific role in the party. Some jobs are more flexible than others (most specifically RDM which can take on various different magic-oriented roles), but most serve a single purpose.

When it comes down to it, there's four different categories that people usually refer to: Tank, Damage Dealer, Support, and Nuke.

Tanks are most often Paladins (for their ability to build massive amounts of hate and heal themselves) or Ninjas (for their ability to create shadows to take damage for them and their high evasion). Earlier on Warrior is also a valid tank, but past level 40 most WARs will refuse to tank and instead walk the path of a damage dealer.

Damage dealers are exactly what they sound like, they're the ones that provide the main physical offense for a party. The primary damage dealers are monks, warriors, thieves, dark knights, dragoons, rangers and samurais. I'm unfamiliar with puppet master's role in a party (I've only ever partied with one once), but I can assume this is where they'd be. On the sparse occasions that BSTs party, they'd also be part of this category.

Support jobs include red mage, white mage, bard, and corsair. Their job, obviously, is to support the others. White mage and red mages are often main healers (RDM can fill in for a lack of WHM and, in my experience, often does). Bards focus on increasing the party's stats through their songs. Red mage has refresh (restores 3 MP per second for a total of 120 MP), and BRD has mage's ballad I and II (similar effect). Corsairs are very similar to bards. I've only ever partied with one, but what people most often talk about is their ability to refresh the party and the experience bonus they can provide. Summoner can also fall into a support role by taking the job of main healer. I haven't seen this much in the later levels, though.

The last group is the nukers. Black mage is the primary nuker. Basically it's just the jobs that deal out massive elemental damage. Summoners also fall under this category with their avatars' blood pacts, but only some of those are elemental in nature, while others are physical.

The selection of sub jobs are most often dependent on enhancing that job's strengths instead of making up for its weaknesses. Damage dealers usually rely on warrior or thief subjobs (warrior for strenght and thief for SATA). Thieves and warriors are often seen with ninja subs. They both use it for dual-wield (highly overrated, if you ask me) and both make use of the utsusemi: ichi/ni abilities that create shadows to take damage for you. I've seen DRK/NINs as well, but they're rather uncommon in parties as DRKs specialize in scythes and great swords (both two handed weapons). The only time I've seen that combination effective was with a DRK/NIN with full axe merits.

As for the subjobs you mentioned, Scott already addressed those. The only real advantage I can see to a DRG sub is the passive accuracy bonus, but the lack of the DRG's wyvern really hurts it as a functional sub job. Edit: I was unaware of the new developments with DRG as a sub. Probably just a phase with the haste obsession.

If you're really upset about jobs having a specific function, perhaps this game isn't for you. As far as I know, though, this kind of set-up is pretty standard in any MMO reliant on parties. There's always solo'ing for exp., but for the most part, such a thing isn't really managable in Final Fantasy XI unless you're a beastmaster.

Bst is an evil vice at early lvls ranging from 15-30 something.

The JA's you get are a bit lacking (comparitively) at low lvls and the mobs get tougher (than from lvl 1-10) as you do. Subing whm is ok but after lvl 15 or so cure 2 will really be needed (with poison and dia and other things like that slowly killing you on top of critical attacks and reg melee damage :) ), or a way to weaken the mob. I must not be on the BST mailing list cause i have had nothing but trouble with this job (that or crappy Exp !)

WAR/DRG with ATK Bonus and Jump makes one of the best subjob choices from 20-29. However around level 60 alot of other options open up, and other choices would probably better by then.

The worst thing that you can do or happen to you is what I experienced last night in the dunes.

I'm leveling my subjob whm so getting a party was easy, so we gets
me (whm
rdm, rdm, war, war, and war.

I thought hmm should do well with this party, except, the rdm doesn't want to enfeeble or heal the warriors refuse to tank unless I focus all my cures on them and leave the rest of the party to heal themselves.
So after a long drawn out conversation on what they should be doing, they agree, so I suggest testing our party on a lizard, the rdm wants to pull lol because he has a bow *shook head but agreed* anyway he pulls a damsfly worm, I heal the rdm before he dies the war's starts telling me to cure him, tells me to cure faster because hes lost 70 hp lol the rdm starts meleeing with a YEW WAND! anyways 3 died because when I told the rdm to stop meleeing he just told me to f***off. Luckily I had a scroll of instant reraise zoned to selbina while the rest died. When I went back to them they all asked me to call for a raise after to saying sorry and admitting it was their first time in the dunes.

So after I gave them all a bollocking for being useless and not listening I called for a raise, then they wanted to party again hmmm I do not think so.

That was my worst party ever.

/comfort Coll

That sounds horrible... although i have had pt's like that .

Crazy people doing things they shouldn't with the job they equiped,
People who don't know what they should be doing,
total anarchy in the pt and then as a grand finale group massacre.

As much as it sux, you can't really do anything about it, just get another pt. (easier for a whm :D )

It just really does your head in, i'm no expert on this game, i've been playing 3 months but I know what the basics are, lol at first none of the war's wanted to be tank because they were scare of dying, I was like WTF! I wasted an hour on those 5, from what I was reading on the text, it sounded like they all knew each other and they were all kids, no joke.

WOW ... i try to stay out of situations like that.

I don't like getting into a party where they are all mates and i don't know any of them (they may be more inclined to abuse you to protect themselves)

I agree you don't have to be playing for years to have a handle on the dynamics of the game.
And being a war you have to expect that it will be a possiblity that you will die to protect the mages and lesser def equiped players.
Most wars i know don't really tank after lvl 40 or so ... but lvl's 10-20 ComeOn !
I woulda left them after the first incident of them not doin' what they're designed to. 3 wars and no tank is enraging ... and rdms that won't enfeeb is preposterous !

Wow.
Thanks a lot for the info.
I've wouldn't have dreamed of so much good reply.

Anyway, the way you said about the tanks 'like warriors' being able to attack is some comfort. I don't want to play a game were you're at the mercy of the enemy 'like some monsters in Silent Hill, no matter how hard you try to kill them, some of them just won't die!'.


The Paladin is a Tank, he is endurant, can take a lot of damage, high HP(?), high defence, white magic support.
The Dark Knight is a DD, he is strong, can deal a lot of damage, high Str(?), high attack, black magic
Is this exact?

Anyway, A Tank/DD is exactly what I'm looking for. I want my character to be able to deal damage as well as taking great hits. Especially on a one on one.
I do intend to play with a party, and alliances. And at times, solo and challenging, the harder, the better. I'm planning on using more healing than magic damage, so, even if you say it's not a good mix, I'll still try it.
Hell, I've got one month free (oh yeah.. are you still charge for Pay-Online, uh, I meant, Play-Online. If so, it's still Fee and not Free.) [coming back to my story] If I find the combo not good, or not enjoyable, I'll discontinue the game and give it to friends.

I'll use Paladin as a front and Dark Knight as a support.
EDIT: I forgot to mention, I'll be starting with Warrior at the start. Then I'll change.



The only thing I'm concerned about is their stats. How do they grow, what stats grows with them. ect.
----------
Anyway,
The Warrior/Dragoon was just out of the blue.

I'm planning of having theses jobs:
-Paladin
-Dark Knight

Also interested of knowing more on:

-Red Mage. (In the book, They say they can use white magic and some Melee Fighting, at least it's what I think it is... .

1- In FFV, Red Mages uses White Magic & Black Magic, can they support Black Magic, can they Melee?
2- If that's the case, is the best choice of the red mage a blue mage (I think they exist in the new expansion, right? BTW, I don't have the last expansion)?

-Samurai Or/And Ninja, are they good, what can they do, is it a good combo?

If you want either Paladin or Dark Knight, level WAR or MNK to 20 to get your subjob, then the other to 30 to get the advanced jobs.

Typically, you won't be meleeing as a RDM. They can cast black magic without being looked down apon, but only if they've finished buffing/enfeebling for the party.

Yeah, I'll be starting with Warrior anyway, just forgot to put it there.

Warrior is a great job to start out as. It is a good sub for so many other jobs, and can fill a few different roles in an early party.

Don't forget to get a subjob for your WAR when you hit level 18. Probably MNK or THF. You only need to take that to level 15 so that you can be an efficient warrior until level 30. Parties will be less likely to invite you if you have an underleveled subjob or an undesireable subjob.

I took WAR to 18 then THF to 15. Then WAR to 30 to unlock Paladin. Now I'm at PLD 33, and I like that I don't have to worry about my subjob again to level 60.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by King-Killer

I do intend to play with a party, and alliances. And at times, solo and challenging, the harder, the better.

---

I hope you intend to party because you won't pass lvl 20 if you don't (beside if you are a Beastmaster). Soloing after lvl 15 is very long and boring, you will only solo in the beginning. At lvl 30, you can almost die (and will spend 10 mins on him) from a monster that will give you like 25 exp (and you need like 5000). So I do hope you want to party but for the solo part, forget that.

PLD and DRK are very specified, however if you want to be able to tank and deal good damage, i recommend WAR because they can do both provided they get the gear to do them. Try it, its not as bad as you would think.

RDMs can melee, but past lvl 30 they arent recommended to, if you want to do similar things but also melee, try Blue Mage instead. RDM is more focused on enfeebling magic, and Refreshing(MP Regen) and more backline spellcasting.

SAM is a master or skillchains, their individual hits are nothing too spectacular, however they can do two skillchains at once and is able to adapt with just about any melee out there. Later on their Weapon Skills are nothing to sneer at as well.

NIN is a tank, they are expensive, i recommend not doing this job until you get a stabilized capital. They are more of an evasive tank, however they damage deal after lvl 70 in merit pts.

As opposed to Del Murder's lvl THF plan, i recommend MNK instead and forget THF until later. WAR/MNK is way more preffered from lvl 1-30, and is a superior tank to just about every other job that can tank with a Great Axe. /THF offers nothing great until lvl 30. It pains me to see everyone as /NIN or just using /THF just because they want to and not seeing to fit their party's needs.

I managed fine with THF, but yeah MNK is probably better. I just really hate the monk job, always have. I like the ability to steal and gain more treasure.

Another reason I chose THF was because I had a lot of the gear already from when I went through as WAR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Del Murder

I managed fine with THF, but yeah MNK is probably better. I just really hate the monk job, always have. I like the ability to steal and gain more treasure.

---

. .
_

The thing is, before 30 you only get Steal, and Gilfinder(not really anything).

With MNK you get more HP and also Boost, which is like a mini-provoke which helped me keep hate pretty solid after the second provoke if i spam those two.