PS3 Under Fire

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10-09-2006, 03:26 AM
The Fat Bioware Nerd

PS3 Under Fire

Do you think Sony might lose the console war this time? I do because at E3 Sony had lost the franchise(Grand Theft Auto.) which was a system seller for the PS2 in the last generation console war to Mircosoft. Other titles that I thought would be exclusive for the PS3 are going to be available for the X-Box 360.(Assassin's Creed and Sonic The Hedgehog.) Also the Playstation 3 version of SmackDown! V.S. RAW 2007 was cancelled. And of course there's that six hundred dollar price tag. I could buy a couch with that amount of money. Anyway I don't know about you but I'm not buying the PS3.
10-09-2006, 03:27 AM
Shoeberto

More liek PS3 ON FIRE

because they're like overheating and stuff

Seriously dude I know science and this is science
10-09-2006, 03:29 AM
LunarWeaver

I think they'll do better than what it seems, because everybody is bitching about it right now but most will still get one anyway (eventually). But I don't believe they will have a super lead like they have in the past.

I do not foresee this thread being filled with bitter arguments in the future at all.
10-09-2006, 03:31 AM
Yamaneko

Just to clarify the overheating thing (and I'm sure Hsu is aware), the PS3s at TGS were enclosed in very confined spaces together. There was very little in the way of space, so it's only natural that some of the machines would begin to overheat. Sony stock took a dive because of this, apparently.
10-09-2006, 03:34 AM
abrojtm

Although it's initial sales won't be great, I bet their one year sales will be better than 360's, but Wii will probably do the best due to low price and playability.
10-09-2006, 03:42 AM
Yamaneko

I think Wii will do very well in Japan, but the American market will be fought between Microsoft and Sony. In the definitional sense, American gamers tend to be more "hardcore" than Japanese gamers. The largest gaming market in Japan is the mobile phone market. That's why DS does so well over there. Americans want their first person shooters, their sports games and their action games with the latest and greatest graphics. While I think Wii will do well here (better than Gamecube), I still believe it will come in last place among the big three.
10-09-2006, 03:43 AM
Kawaii Ryûkishi

Sony's arrogance right now seems pretty analogous to Nintendo's arrogance leading up to the release of the N64, if not worse. As huge as their installed consumer base is, I can definitely see them losing in America to the Xbox 360. And they don't even seem to be making an effort in Japan, where Nintendo is poised to easily overcome them.

But you never know, I guess.
10-09-2006, 03:46 AM
Shoeberto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

Sony's arrogance right now seems pretty analogous to Nintendo's arrogance leading up to the release of the N64, if not worse.

"See you later, boooooooys!"
"Yeah, thanks for the pizza, guuuuuuuuys!"

But yes very much.
10-09-2006, 03:46 AM
Erdrick Holmes

Sony will probably make it, since their fans can't seem to realize their console costs too damned much and offers so little so far.
10-09-2006, 03:48 AM
Kawaii Ryûkishi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamaneko

I think Wii will do very well in Japan, but the American market will be fought between Microsoft and Sony. In the definitional sense, American gamers tend to be more "hardcore" than Japanese gamers. The largest gaming market in Japan is the mobile phone market. That's why DS does so well over there. Americans want their first person shooters, their sports games and their action games with the latest and greatest graphics. While I think Wii will do well here (better than Gamecube), I still believe it will come in last place among the big three.

The Wii has the advantage of appealling to non-gamers as well as the hardcore lot, so they could very well come out "on top."
10-09-2006, 03:54 AM
Roto13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erdrick Holmes

Sony will probably make it, since their fans can't seem to realize their console costs too damned much and offers so little so far.

You're not talking about fans, you're talking about fanboys, and fanboys alone aren't enough.
10-09-2006, 04:01 AM
Agent Proto

There are more "casual" gamers than there are "hardcore" gamers. Wii will likely win out because of that. However, the PS3 or XBox 360 will likely win the support of "hardcore" gamers.
10-09-2006, 04:04 AM
The Fat Bioware Nerd

Quote:

Originally Posted by LunarWeaver

I think they'll do better than what it seems, because everybody is bitching about it right now but most will still get one anyway (eventually). But I don't believe they will have a super lead like they have in the past.

I do not foresee this thread being filled with bitter arguments in the future at all.

Well I'm still NOT going to buy it...The only PS3 title that caught my eye is Final Fantasy XIII. That game looks awesome and I like the Final Fantasy series.:)

But I DON'T like Final Fantasy THAT MUCH.
10-09-2006, 04:13 AM
Samuraid

I don't think Sony will lose (meaning, they won't get knocked out of the console race), but I can only speculate that they probably won't do as well as they hope to do.
10-09-2006, 04:26 AM
The Fat Bioware Nerd

When I said lose I meant Sony losing first place in the console competition.
10-09-2006, 05:07 AM
RiseToFall

A systems success always depends on one thing:games. No matter how weak your system is, if the publishers have high support for it, the gamers will come. Sony has never had a problem aquiring those publishers, something that Nintendo seems to have lost since Super Nes. But lately due to the high cost of game development, exclusitivity has been dying on Sony's part. Honestly I really don't know who will come out on top, but it will be an interseting battle none the less.
10-09-2006, 05:16 AM
Ouch!

I fear for any system when an EB Games store employee tells me they'll be lucky to get four units at launch.
10-09-2006, 05:16 AM
ValkyrieWing

I don't know how it's gonna go...

I could give you guys a sales report after they come out...seeing as I work at GameStop and all. :)
10-09-2006, 05:32 AM
The Fat Bioware Nerd

That reminds me I went to GameStop the other day and sold a bunch of DVDs, video games, and console accessories for game credit. So I could pre-order the Nintendo Wii and the Wii version of The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess...But the cashiers said I couldn't pre-order the Wii yet so I just pre-ordered Twilight Princess instead.
10-09-2006, 05:34 AM
Araciel

i'd say sony has won two wars...the third, no matter their current problems, will probably also go to them as well
10-09-2006, 05:40 AM
Kawaii Ryûkishi

It would appear they agree with that. As did Nintendo after the success of the NES and SNES. But success happens for Reasons, and you can only get so far on name recognition and nothing more.
10-09-2006, 05:41 AM
Yamaneko

Sony still has plenty of third-party support. More than Nintendo. The demise of Nintendo was because of lack of third-party support.
10-09-2006, 05:46 AM
Kawaii Ryûkishi

There was more to it than that--unfriendly prices and a proprietary game format, particularly. Sounds familiar.
10-09-2006, 05:50 AM
The Fat Bioware Nerd

Yep the lack of third-party support somewhat led to Nintendo's downfall. But I think somewhere down the line Sony might lose third-party support too. Because like I said before the PS3 is losing exclusive game titles that might be a sign of things to come.
10-09-2006, 05:56 AM
Yamaneko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

There was more to it than that--unfriendly prices and a proprietary game format, particularly. Sounds familiar.

PS3 prices will be the same (in the U.S.) as 360 prices. Blu-ray is proprietary to a certain point. The cartridge format was limiting. Blu-ray is expanding and allows for media playback, just like DVD.
10-09-2006, 10:24 AM
Madame Adequate

It'd be awesome if the 360 'won' this generation. It's hard to call though, we need to look a year or 18 months into the future and see what Sony have done with the PS3 at that point. They can only charge what they're charging for the initial wave of fans/fanboys/whatever, other people won't pay that much for a console regardless of the actual value of what they are purchasing.
10-09-2006, 11:48 AM
Rocket Edge

I'll be purchasing the PS3 as soon as possible when it comes out. I just feel very comfortable with the playstation.
Whether or not it wins in the race for top spot, i don't know. It looks alot closer this time than the last time, and now everyone is not clinging on too the playstation as before. Sony are really gonna have to impress big-time to have people purchasing the $600-something console of theirs, because it's a big ask to gamers, the majority who are still in school and without a job. There's gonna be alot of worried parent's out there.
10-09-2006, 01:23 PM
Rainecloud

Hm. I'm not entirely sure (but I voted "yes", because I'm a biased Nintendo Fanboy ;)). Part of me thinks that Sony will lose the console war by a considerable margin due to the PS3's inflated price tag. Then again, another part of me thinks that Sony will win the console war because they have dominated the scene for so damn long. A few people I've spoken to on the subject have said the same thing: "Who cares how much the PS3 is going to cost? It's made by Sony, so people are going to buy it regardless of the cost". It's a tricky one to predict, no doubt.

Look at what happened to Nintendo back in the early 90's. Everything was going so well, and then came Sony. A few years later, and Nintendo had been hit pretty hard - albeit not nearly hard enough to get put out of business. Who knows, perhaps we'll see a reversal of fortunes once more. I, for one, would like to see Ninty back on the throne. I'm so sick of seeing the same old generic PS2 and XBox games on the shelves. It's so boring.
10-09-2006, 01:27 PM
Slothy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamaneko

PS3 prices will be the same (in the U.S.) as 360 prices. Blu-ray is proprietary to a certain point. The cartridge format was limiting. Blu-ray is expanding and allows for media playback, just like DVD.

Precisely, the only huge hit to the wallet is in the initial price of the console itself, and that will go down in the long run. Cartridges failed because they were an overly expensive format that was faced with a format that was superior in every way but load times. In this case, Blu-ray IS the superior format, and some companies are already using it to full advantage (a single level in Lair can be up to 4GB).

Sony won't lose this war. I have no doubt that their position will be hurt, but regardless of how many titles have gone multi-platform so far, they still command a good list of triple-A titles that are exclusive and almost guarenteed console sellers. Also, I'd say Microsoft is dreaming if they think they're ever going to win the Japanese market, no matter how many Japanese developers start working on the system. Odds are that Sony will still decimate Microsoft over there, and that's a huge market, both in terms of gamers and developers.
10-09-2006, 01:42 PM
XxSephirothxX

I think it's really anybody's game at this point. In a few years, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the Wii the uncontested ruler of Japan, and the PS3 and Xbox 360 pretty much neck and neck over here. The one year advantage for Microsoft, and a considerably lower price point, is going to make it much, much more difficult for Sony to catch up. Assuming they are able to retain third party support, which is likely, and they release enough exclusive stuff like Metal Gear Solid 4, Final Fantasy XIII, etc., I think they'll do well. Who knows? I, for one, would like to see Sony kicked off their high horse. :p
10-09-2006, 01:44 PM
NeoCracker

Its sad how a discussion in General Gaming about the PS3 is taken far more seriously is is conducted in a more civilized manner than anything in EoEO.
10-09-2006, 02:14 PM
JKTrix

Despite what we all might think, Sony is still the strongest going into this generation. It's hard to tell right now whether or not they will come out on top. As for this holiday season, the 360 is likely to come out on top when it comes to software purchases simply because there may not be enough PS3s to go around.

As for the long run, that's even more difficult to predict. While Halo is apparently the strongest non-sports franchise in the US, Sony outnumbers Microsoft when it comes to its own exclusive heavy hitters. Halo alone will probably sell more in the US than a Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, God of War or Devil May Cry would individually, but when you put all those together they'd sell more than Microsoft's only big gun. The 'loss' of Ninja Gaiden doesn't help Microsoft either. Sony still has the stronger potential, as they have the most exclusive 'big name' franchises among the hardcore players. Microsoft has a chance to establish new, potentially big franchises such as Gears of War, and the Mass Effect and Too Human (if it turns out to be good) trilogies.

However, the other 2 franchises, which are probably *the* biggest franchises in the US, are shared between the 2 systems. Madden has always been multi-platform, and now that GTA will be on both systems on the same day, Sony has a gaping hole in their previously unstoppable (now merely overwhelming) arsenal.

Nintendo has a lot of work to do with the Wii. It won't initially win over the PlayStation generation, the ones whose first RPG was FF7 and have never played Zelda, or the 'mainstream' Madden/GTA players. It has the potential to bring in the casual gamers, and people who don't even play games, so if they do pull it off then they could be the big winners. This kind of growth will help the industry as a whole if it actually happens.

As to who has the most to lose from a failed system, it's definitely Sony. Nintendo instantly profits from every Wii sold. Even if it fails the DS is so hugely successful they wouldn't be hurt too bad. Microsoft could lose money for eternity and it wouldn't affect them much. Sony has invested a lot in the PS3: The cell chip, BluRay, etc... if it flops, it will really hurt. Neither of these 3 companies will be particularly crippled if their console fails. Sony and Microsoft have other products outside of gaming, and Nintendo dominates the handheld market.

So to restate: PlayStation is still the strongest brand and has the most clout behind it. Microsoft has some potential but does have quite of work to do if it wants to overtake Sony as the market leader. Nintendo is the wildcard--it isn't even trying to 'compete' with Xbox and Playstation, it's aimed at a much larger (but difficult) market.
10-09-2006, 02:37 PM
Pete for President

I don't think sony will lose.

I think all the fuss about the prices of the console and the games was just made up for promotion. They want to make a fuss about everything that has to do with the ps3, so everyone will talk about it, everyone will discuss sony's possible insanity and all that.

Eventually, when it comes out, I think the prices will be roughly the same as the Xbox 360 and the PS3 will get an even or larger share of the games-market.

I could be horribly wrong though, but this is just my prediction.
10-09-2006, 03:06 PM
Rainecloud

Quote:

Originally Posted by corncracker

Its sad how a discussion in General Gaming about the PS3 is taken far more seriously is is conducted in a more civilized manner than anything in EoEO.

xD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete for President

I think all the fuss about the prices of the console and the games was just made up for promotion. They want to make a fuss about everything that has to do with the ps3, so everyone will talk about it, everyone will discuss sony's possible insanity and all that.

Hm. Personally, if I was working for Sony, I'd be quite upset about all the fuss concerning prices, etc. After all, no publicity is better than bad publicity, right? Although everyone is talking about the PS3 at the moment, the majority of the discussions are overhwhelmingly negative. That sort of publicity won't get people to buy consoles ... surely?
10-09-2006, 03:16 PM
MecaKane

I'm sure there's 400,000 out of the 330 million (US and Canada) people who can and will afford to buy a PS3. And by the next shipment there should be more, due to more games being out, those 400,000 absolutly loving it, hype from the mad shortages, or a price drop. So it's not really about priceing anymore, maybe Sony's smurfed because 400,000 isn't enough to get a dent into the million 360s already sold, but that's a problem for their manufacturing whatnots.
10-09-2006, 04:41 PM
Slothy

I don't think the 400,000 PS3's on launch day will hurt Sony too much. They've already said they'll have 1-1.2 million available in North America by the end of the year. That's more than the 360 had at launch or could sell in that time frame last year, and the shortage didn't really seem to hurt Microsoft in the long run. It was long forgotten in a matter of months. As long as they can keep a steady supply coming in, I imagine Sony will come out none the worse for wear from it.
10-09-2006, 05:17 PM
Cz

Sony will start poorly, but once the price drops the system will grow in popularity. They'll almost certainly lose ground this generation, but I can't see the PS3 becoming another N64. While the console has been a PR disaster in the online community, the general public's perception of gaming is quite different to ours. As long as Sony maintains its strong base of third-party support it'll be able to shift units, and while it'll lose out to the Wii in Japan, it's probable that Sony will continue to be the market leader in the US and Europe.
10-09-2006, 05:21 PM
Rainecloud

Quote:

While the console has been a PR disaster in the online community, the general public's perception of gaming is quite different to ours. As long as Sony maintains its strong base of third-party support it'll be able to shift units, and while it'll lose out to the Wii in Japan, it's probable that Sony will continue to be the market leader in the US and Europe.

That translates to me as: the general public in the US and Europe part with their cash quite easily, as they automatically fork out for expensive consoles simply because of brand names, as opposed to actual quality of hardware and games, whereas people in Japan recognise good quality products and don't buy things simply because it's the "in thing" to do so.

Or maybe I'm analyzing the situation far too much. :D
10-09-2006, 05:24 PM
Dreddz

Its anyones game, well not really, its between the PS3 and Wii in my eyes. I can see the PS3 either first or second, I doubt it'll topple to the 360.
10-09-2006, 05:29 PM
Yamaneko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainecloud

...whereas people in Japan recognise good quality products and don't buy things simply because it's the "in thing" to do so.

I thought Japanese youth culture was all about the "in thing". Plus, they have Cooking Mama. Let's not talk about the Japanese. :D
10-09-2006, 05:40 PM
Cz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainecloud

That translates to me as: the general public in the US and Europe part with their cash quite easily, as they automatically fork out for expensive consoles simply because of brand names, as opposed to actual quality of hardware and games, whereas people in Japan recognise good quality products and don't buy things simply because it's the "in thing" to do so.

As stereotypes go, it's a good 'un. Whatever the reason, though, Nintendo products have always sold well in Japan, and Sony products in the US. If anything, the Wii is going to widen that gap. I can Japanese consumers embracing the new interface in vastly increased numbers, but for the West to view the Wii as anything more than a charming novelty will take something special. Sales will rise, without question, but it's not going to take the world by storm in the way the PSOne did.

I'm more than prepared to eat those words in a couple of years' time, by the way. :D
10-09-2006, 06:03 PM
Vincent, Thunder God

The main worry right now is that the console is still looking very pricy for many countries, there aren't many must-have launch titles, and given the fact that Sony has already lowered the console prices dramatically, they may never recuperate from losses.

So yes, they may well lose this time. I'm still definetly buying a PS3. It's been the plan all along. I'm not interested in the 360 or Wii.
10-09-2006, 07:54 PM
The Fat Bioware Nerd

Well be prepared to folk over six hundred bucks Thunder God.
10-09-2006, 08:00 PM
Dreddz

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_912

Well be prepared to folk over six hundred bucks Thunder God.

Can people stop and remember that there is a $500 version once in a while.
10-09-2006, 08:04 PM
Vincent, Thunder God

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_912

Well be prepared to folk over six hundred bucks Thunder God.

A while ago it was expected to cost 499$ for the 40 GB version and 599$ for the 60GB version.

Then Gamespot said it would sell for 399$.

I assume this is in American money, so it will be more in Canada. But at this rate, probably not 600$.
10-09-2006, 08:06 PM
The Fat Bioware Nerd

Yeah but nobody is gonna buy it because a lot of features that are in the $600 version are removed in the $500 version.
10-09-2006, 11:47 PM
Slicksword45

I'm forking over $600 :)

I'm all hyped up about Ps3s Release. can't wait. must play now. *Turns into a mindless fanboy zombie :) *

Ok well I'm not a fanboy.... anyway, I think that the Ps3 might have a crummy launch, but it will do good the next year or so.
10-10-2006, 04:53 AM
MecaKane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent, Thunder God

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_912

Well be prepared to folk over six hundred bucks Thunder God.

A while ago it was expected to cost 499$ for the 40 GB version and 599$ for the 60GB version.

Then Gamespot said it would sell for 399$.

I assume this is in American money, so it will be more in Canada. But at this rate, probably not 600$.

That second gamespot article is from goddamn a year and a half ago.
It's going to be $599 in the state and the exchange rate between here and america is going to account for more than a dollar probably $650, so yeah you're going to pay more than $600.
10-10-2006, 11:49 AM
Sunny Day Suicide

Nah. Ps3 is totally getting butt raped right now. I think there's a time where people are going to get out of the habit of saying Ps3 for me for the fun of it and realize what they truly want. Not what they've supported. And it seems to me there are going to be a lot to turn the xbox side.
10-10-2006, 12:05 PM
Nifleheim7

I also believe that the PS3 will have low sales at first but in the end i see Sony as the long term winners.
Personally i'll buy it but not before it's price drops considerably.My favourite titles are not going out until late 2007 anyway.
Until then i will have lots of PS2 and Wii games to play.
10-10-2006, 12:06 PM
escobert

PS3 ftl!
10-10-2006, 08:46 PM
Pete for President

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainecloud

Quote:

Originally Posted by corncracker

Its sad how a discussion in General Gaming about the PS3 is taken far more seriously is is conducted in a more civilized manner than anything in EoEO.

xD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete for President

I think all the fuss about the prices of the console and the games was just made up for promotion. They want to make a fuss about everything that has to do with the ps3, so everyone will talk about it, everyone will discuss sony's possible insanity and all that.

Hm. Personally, if I was working for Sony, I'd be quite upset about all the fuss concerning prices, etc. After all, no publicity is better than bad publicity, right? Although everyone is talking about the PS3 at the moment, the majority of the discussions are overhwhelmingly negative. That sort of publicity won't get people to buy consoles ... surely?

Actually, I think it does! For example, when Michael Jackson got accused of abusing children, his album sales went up 1000%. And that's not exactly positive promotion.

I still could be wrong though.