Thie is Hardcore

You name the drama, I'll play the part.

Er, that is, I am going to keep a record here of my epic quest to do what few have done before, and fewer hve succeeded in doing. (Although I've met 3 who've done it, and at least one of them is here)

You say, "What is It?"

IT is the solo Thief no Class Change FF1 nes challenge!

The update now is that I have TERMINATED Garland, and am sitting pretty at lv 5 on top of the corpses of 3 dead 0 exp Black Belts who were all wiped out in a single hit by an imp (who was later defeated by me Thief).

I will soon be crossing the bridge, a Rapier in one hand and a Lute in the other. Bikke beware.

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If you are undertaking a Hardore challenge, feel free to post your progress here. Brag a little. Stretch the truth about how cool you are. Or about how lucky you get when you press the A button.
Or how unlucky you've gotten, and how your Rocky Balboa like perseverence has led you to victory against theoretically impossible odds!

EDIT: Check this out. I had this great title, and I totally mispell it, like some kind of retarded retard. I swear, if I ever find out how smart I am, it probably won't turn out that I'm very smart.

Which version of FF1 are you using?

NES. I don't do DoS unless it's ABSOLUTELY necessary, and I don't have a PS for Origins.

You can do whatever you want though.
You don't have to mimic me or anythihg. This is about your hardcore FF1 exploits in general.

Good luck. A solo Thief challenge could be a bitch.

Well I have already been there and done that... http://collector.5gigs.com/wm/macster/1th.html

The most trouble you will have is at the very end. Kraken is Insanely hard with the Dragon/Coral sword (The most powerful sword at that point) No matter what, 1 Physical hit will completely own you, or set you up with an easy kill with Lit3. Chaos is also hard, you need alot of lucky critical hits at the start. If you cant kill him before his first Cur4, your basicly screwed unless you get extreamly lucky.

Also another good advice is to skip Kary at the start. You must have the defence sword to beat her.

Ps: Was I one of those 3 people you knew?

Of course I wait on Kary. That goes without saying.

Right now, I've been really busy, unfortunately, and I'm still waiting to see if I can beat the pirates (They keep getting criticals for 26 damage! Yeesh!).

But I on't think I saw your game. I knew Black Mage FF1, somebody from Nuklearpower forums, and I think another dude from here too.

I only ever made it just past the marsh cave before getting fed up. But I'll try it again, soon.

I like your journal, by the way. I feeel like posting up every time I die too.

Edit: Wow, so Astos is where most people fail, eh? Same goes for me. (But not any more)
And your signature sword is the dragon sword? I like the RUne Sword far more.

Ah, I forgot about Astos. Yeah, most people that try a FF1 Solo Thief usually give up or start using savestates. Level 24-25 is the minimum level to beat him (Unless you get alot of lucky shots).

I like the rune sword too, but the dragon/coral sword gives 1 extra point of power, which is a giant help late in the game (Because its the most powerful sword a thief can have other than the masamune). Im asuming that your playing the American NES FF1 so element bounses dont apply...

But if you ARE Playing the JPN FF1, then the Rune Sword will be a GIANT help against Kary

I would have used Coral but:
1) Its pink... pink is just not my color...
2) Its in a diffucult spot to get while the Dragon pretty much comes with TNT...

Also in the pirate fight, This is really the only battle where you should use heals... Also being at lvl 6-8 helps too

i cant stand solo challenges on FF1. especially with physical job classes.

its usually a matter of leveling up until you can beat them with very little skill involved.

i tried one of these for BB and quit, not because i couldn't do it. because it was boring. its just constant attacking.

hopefully this challenge will prove challenging.

My God, you're insane!

I crushed the pirates, finally. I levelled to 10. Which means I'm in for one of the roughest points of the game: Nothing but more levelling.

Congrat's man

Lv. 12. I get 2 hits now. Finafreakingly, I can do more than max 30 damage to a monster. I get 30-50 on average, so I'm kicking butt.

I tried the Wizards at lv. 14, and got smashed.

I think you can run from them in the Ice Cave at high levels like 17-19. So I might try to get to that level and be one of the first people who went into the marsh cave and ran from every battle, including the boss fight. :)

You can never run from wizards, but wizards can run from you ;)

You CAN however, run from vampires... but I am not sure if you can run from the Boss vampire because... I have never tried...

PS: I hate geist's!!! Geist's are my number 1 hated enemy! next to gas dragons...

I may as well update this, since Psi is going solo with the Fighter.

I finally beat Astos and whatnot, but then I quot because Lich thwacked me about, and the levelling was unbearable. But I haven't played in so long that I think I can try to continue. So I'm going to try and kill Lich and maybe see if I can find someplace where levelling isn't hell. Maybe right outside Crescent Lake so I can run out, kill a giant, then run back into the inn to heal up, and so on. I'll see.

I find you can run from WIZARDs (Piscodemons, whatever) as long as it's not one of those forced encounters in Marsh Cave...

Ah, is that what it is.

I thought so, because I could've sworn I'd done it before.

I didn't manage to run from them in the Marsh Cave for that reason, then, I suppose.

Hmm, this thread has inspired me. When i've finished what i'm doing now i might try some single character challenges. Unfortunately that will be a while as im going through 1 to X-2 in order (adding 12 when it comes out). Which class would you recommend going solo with first?

I hate magic classes in FFI, they're a waste.

Solo thief is fun times. Basically as with most solo games, it's about overleveling. I have a few suggestions for later on. White shirt will be great. Using Invis on yourself can help dramatically, in any solo game without magic. That's my best piece of advice for the later part of the game. Yes it takes an armor slot, but later in the game, you'll be dieing easily even with the thief's best armor. It's a more than worthy sacrifice.

THE JACKEL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

I hate magic classes in FFI, they're a waste.

Solo thief is fun times. Basically as with most solo games, it's about overleveling. I have a few suggestions for later on. White shirt will be great. Using Invis on yourself can help dramatically, in any solo game without magic. That's my best piece of advice for the later part of the game. Yes it takes an armor slot, but later in the game, you'll be dieing easily even with the thief's best armor. It's a more than worthy sacrifice.

THE JACKAL

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Why do that when you can use the defense sword and cast ruse on yourself?

The defense sword and the heal staff are two very important weapons to have in a solo thief game. I wouldn't have been able to beat it without them. So make sure you keep them when you get them. But I'm sure you knew that already.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Black Mage FF1

Why do that when you can use the defense sword and cast ruse on yourself?

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Invis and Ruse are virtually the same thing, and I tend to forget about the Defense Sword because it only casts it on yourself, while the White Shirt casts Invis on everyone. Granted in a solo challenge it's great, but still easy thing to overlook.

THE JACKEL

Yeah but Inv2 only raises your evade by 40%. Ruse raises it by 80%. So Ruse is the better of the two. Plus, by using the defense sword you don't have to waste an armor slot.

I like to think that Lich used to be a girl back when she was alive.

One of the reasons is that necro-sorcerers make really hot babes, and I like that image in my mind.

Another reason is that Kary is obviously a chick, Tiamat is a chick, and Kraken may as well be a chick, so, since the LWs are all guys and their Fiendish couterparts are all women, then it makes for really interesting, yet strangely bizarre fanfiction.

(SPOILER)BUT THE REAL REASON IS THAT HER NAME SHOULD BEGIN WITH A B INSTEAD OF AN L!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll hold off on future updates until I finally make more progress.

Kraken serves as a tentacle-hentai giver. Therefore, Kraken is male (or completely lacking in gender like most hentai creatures). However the other three fiends keep him locked up in the basement until they need him because he sucks.

The Lich is dead!

Thw wicked Lich is DEAD!

(SPOILER)Lv. 27. More than halfway through my levels, with the most powerful weapon I'll have, with 3/4 the maximum amount of hits I'll be doing, I am just barely able to quench the earth of it's rot.

3 Fiends and Chaos left to kill:
I am oficially 20% through the game, and I've used 50% of my levelling power.

Lovely.

Ya, and think about this: You don't get to class change, and since you need to equip armour that takes up spaces which your Power Glove* cannot fill (unless you ditch the Buckler) you're screwed.

*Oh my god. This was a NES game alright.


Macster, I'm reading your journal for solo Thief. Well done on that thing with the RUBY. Hilarious!

Alright. Got the airship. I wish I had the guts to level up by killing the Eye for 3000XP shots, but even if I go out and get a PRoRing first, I'm perfectly susceptible to reaching lv 40 or something, proudly marching to the exit of the cave to hit a sorceror random encounter and then get fried in a second, losing everything.

What? YES! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED!
(SPOILER)Well, I didn't exactly level THAT much, but I levelled a little...

Anyway, I am faced with a tactical problem.

The nature of this challenge is not only difficult in that I am playing with the least adept killer in the game, but also, as with all solos, that it is kinda cheating to use the weapon slots of my deceased friends for storage.
I can't risk opening the wrong treasure chest and picking up an item that I don't want now, but will need for a later part of the game.

Now, I'm going to Ordeals right now. And then, most likely, to the Waterfall. When I'm done, this will be my gear:
Dragon Sword, Heal Staff, Defense
Gold Bracelet, Ribbon, ProRing, Zeus Gauntlets

Then I'll go after Kraken. In Kraken's Lair, there are 3 items worth considering in my inventory.
Light Axe (Screw it. I'll have a Mage Staff)
The Mage Staff
Power Gauntlet

I'm going to want to Power Gauntlets, but I don't quite see any way to carry them, since I'll need Zeus to kill the water monsters.
Bah! This isn't too hard to figure out. I'm not going to get any of it.

When I hit the sky castle, I'll replace Zeus with the Black Shirt and pick up a Bane Sword, wish that I had room to carry a ProCape, and then the game will be all but over.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martyr

not only difficult in that I am playing with the least adept killer in the game, but also, as with all solos, that it is kinda cheating to use the weapon slots of my deceased friends for storage.

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No it isn't. The game lets you do it, and it's not possible to actually have a one-man party. If it were actually possible to remove the members then it might be cheating.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blim

Hmm, this thread has inspired me. When i've finished what i'm doing now i might try some single character challenges. Unfortunately that will be a while as im going through 1 to X-2 in order (adding 12 when it comes out). Which class would you recommend going solo with first?

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that's what i'm doin meself. started early last year i think, i play at a slow pace but so far i've done 1, 2, 3, 4 and i'm near the end of 5. waitin for 6 advance to come out, and i have the rest except 12.

it's great watching the series evolve and noting what ways each game has added to the ideas of the last.

[quote=Paul;2070787]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blim

it's great watching the series evolve and noting what ways each game has added to the ideas of the last.

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Except in 2 where they decided not to keep

Stats changing according to action in battle
Inns charging pro rata according to how healthy you are
Level up system for spells
Stats permanently going down after battle
Nearly everything else

[QUOTE=Psi;2070791]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blim

it's great watching the series evolve and noting what ways each game has added to the ideas of the last.

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Except in 2 where they decided not to keep

Stats changing according to action in battle
Inns charging pro rata according to how healthy you are
Level up system for spells
Stats permanently going down after battle
Nearly everything else

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yes but FF2 did introduce:
cid
chocobos
leviathan
beavers (precursor to moogles?)
an actually interesting story that unfolds as you play
amongst other things... okay yeah it changed a lot that people liked, but if it wasn't for FF2, final fantasy may never have gone on to include a real story, which is arguably one of its most important aspects. FF3's story was certainly a lot less interesting. so was FF5's.

[quote=Paul;2071032]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blim

it's great watching the series evolve and noting what ways each game has added to the ideas of the last.

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Except in 2 where they decided not to keep

Stats changing according to action in battle
Inns charging pro rata according to how healthy you are
Level up system for spells
Stats permanently going down after battle
Nearly everything else

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yes but FF2 did introduce:
cid
chocobos
leviathan
beavers (precursor to moogles?)
an actually interesting story that unfolds as you play
amongst other things... okay yeah it changed a lot that people liked, but if it wasn't for FF2, final fantasy may never have gone on to include a real story, which is arguably one of its most important aspects. FF3's story was certainly a lot less interesting. so was FF5's.

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Not sure whats happened here but that quote was not me

Yeah... The Defense is too cool for school.

I used it in the first 5 turns against Kraken, but I only needed to use it 3 times. I was only hit by crits, and the tentacle beast was whacked shortly thereafter.

I've come to level 41, so I hit 4 times and have infinite HP with Defense and Heal Staff, so the levelling is over with.

Now that our multi-armed friends are gone, I must face the Queen of Multi herself, the many headed dragon, Tiamat. Poor thing, she don't realize I'm carrying a Dragon Sword in one hand and a Bane Sword in the other.

(SPOILER)What? The Dragon Sword doesn't do extra damage against dragons? Well now, I never said it did. I was simply implying that that girl BETTER be scared, because whether or not it's got special abilities, it's the second most powerful sword in the entire game!

Also, on the issue of storing items- I don't care about your "game making provisions for solo" ... whatever.
Taking on the "Solo" challenge means that, whether or not the game allows extra slots, you must resist the urge to use them. The same way you resist the urge to revive the characters. Putting weapons and armor on the bodies of the deceased, as though you're dragging all them along with you, with your weapons, isn't real, it isn't what the solo is about. None of that makes sense. None of that is real. The solo means you're a lone character. You get 4 weapons and 4 armors for equipment. If you need different ones throughout the game, make sure you pick them up at the right time because if you got 5 armors, one has to go. If not, you're breaking the rules. Unless, of course, you think you're playing DoS. But, as DarkLadyNyara has shown to us, a Solo WM can beat DoS on a lowest level possible challenge (Lowest Level Possible Challenge: No levelling at all! If you level because of inescapable boss fights, then that's a shame. If you run into a pack of zombulls or wizards and can't run, Reset!)

And so the DoS isn't even applicable.

But anyway, that's how I see it. I'm looking at from a realistic and real challengy point of view. I guess it isn't any super big deal if you fill up the dead slots with weapons and armor. It isn't lioke they can ALL be used during battle. It simply makes things more convenient, which you may desire, and which I think is something (convenience) that ought to be absent from a challenge game.

But whatever. I'm going to drop my mage staff and Zeus Gauntlets, pick up the Black Shirt and Bane Sword, put an end to Tiamat.
Then I'm going to go back in time 2000 years, slay Chaos before the time loop maintains Garland's everlasting life, and call this game completed. I can almost taste victory, and it is sweet. Like sugar.
The only thing that scares me is Da Macster's trip through the game.

But I got news for you, Mac, you seem to have been whining about the Ribbon not protecting you from RUB magics. Now I haven't gotten there yet, but I'll bet cash that you weren't wearing a ProRing!!! Because Ribbons don't protect you from RUB, only elemental magic. ProRing would've saved you a thousand resets at the Phantom (I think)

I may be wrong though. I don't think so. I'll see. I'll see soon enough.

The Ribbon does prevent RUB and similar spells, just not very well. It also prevents BANE. Open the ROM in FFHackster and you can see all these things.

The ProRing, so far as I can tell, works on RUB spells but not BANE; it wouldn't surprise me if the effect were cumulative though.

Anyway, why the Black Shirt? I thought only a Black Wizard could wear that...

And thanks for that post dammit, now I feel like I gotta redo my solo Fighter after I'm done with my White Mages.

Update Time!!!
(SPOILER)Yeah... Like anybody cares.

Lv. 50.
Waxed Timat with the Bane Sword (First Time I've ever done it, actually. I feel like a cheater. But I have got him with BRAK, so what's the difference.)

Anyway... My attack is at 43, Evade at 95%. I'm kind of like a lv. 16 Fighter with a Silver Sword. (By my guess)

Weapons: Dragon Sword, Heal Staff, Defense, Bane Sword
Armor: Opal Bracelet, ProRing, ProCape, Ribbon

As I enter the ToF, 2000 years in the past, i can't help but wonder whether or not it's worth it to trade out my ProCape for the Black Shirt.

ProCape provides about 10 defense. I really kinda need it.

Black Shirt is ICE2, which gives me an edge gainst Gas Dragons (if I don't just reset), both the Fire and Water rooms, and any other enemy that I want to mass attack.

And if you know me, I'm very much "Best Defense is a good offense"

In fact, i've jus convinced myself to do it because I can actually get a ProCape back if I don't think the Black Shirt is necessary (It's in a chest in the Kary's Room, strangely enough)

I have considered dropping the Bane Sword in exchange for the Thor Hammer, but ICE2 is still so much better, and the Bane Sword is fun to use.
Also, the Power Gauntlets are a consideration, but, since I'm already going to be wasting turns buffing with the Defense, I don't think I need to spend anymore turns on attack buffs with that.
Although it might be a spectacular help against Chaos (Since I'd rather kill Chaos fast than defend against what physical attacks he's got. Spending 2 turns to nearly double my damage with the Masmune more than makes up for defending against the off chance of his physical attacks as opposed to his many spells which my ribbon naturally protects me from. Although getting slapped by Chaos hurts like the Warmech...)

So...

Here I am, ready to finish.

I'll tell you this:
Up until I defeated Astos, it was Hell!

But after that, it was a blast and a really fun, really challenging game.

Because it's SO much trouble, I can't recommend it over Solo Fighter or RM or BM, but it's fun.

When I kill Chaos, I think I'll class change and beat the ToF with a Ninja.

Chaos is Terminated.

Shattered into a million tiny pieces, which then dissolved into nothingness so thoroughly that nothing remained. Not Chaos, not the Temple, not even the Time Loop.
(SPOILER)Maybe I'll post a screenshot later, if I feel like it

But I come to spread the news of this legend. The tale of the Solo Thief who rescued a princess, saved an elven kingdom and returned sight to a witch, reunited the people of the Aldi Sea with the rest of the world, faced the undead to savce the earth and it's farmers from rot and decay, traveled the crescent lake into the depths of a volcano to save a peaceful circle of old men from fiery destruction, brought back the legendary Airship of the Sky Warriors, long buried under the sands of the desert, saved a fairy, helping a family with their 50,000 G debt, saved the mermaids and restored the sanctity of the water shrine, tread through the Castle of Ordeals, like a Lone Ranger, not receiving the honor bestowed upon those who succeed the trial, helped Dr. Unne to decipher the ancient language of the Leifenish, cleared out the Sky Castle of the minions of the fiend who started the storms that destroyed the northern civilization in the first place, and revived the power or the orbs.

Equipment:
I used the same equipment I had in the previous post.

1. Never got the Black Shirt. Apparently, I didn't need it.
2. Power Gauntlet sucked and did nothing for me. I think it lowered my attack instead of raising it!

3. Masmune...

The Masmune was interesting to me because it brought me to a funnny revelation the moment I picked it up.

That revelation was that my Thief was suddenly equivalent in power to a Ninja (minus spells, which is a pretty big deal for 1 MASSIVE reason, which I'll briefly touch on later).

This is when I fully realized the extent of the importance of items in this game.
You see, Final Fantasy is a game about getting equipment. Every game is. You get money, you discover secrets, you murder coutless identical enemies in search of drops, you quest and conquer all to GET COOL EQUIPMENT! In 5 and 6, there are entire sidequests about acquiring legendary equipment, and, usually, the fully equipped will win the game very easily. Look at this FFVI (SPOILER)Quick+Economizer+Gem Box! I mean, Kefka Dies without hitting you once.

Point? I could've probably made it through the ToF and the entire game at lv. 10 if I'd begun with a Defense and a Heal Staff. It took patience to use the staff to heal myself, but there's plenty of time after a few shots of Ruse from the Defence.
NOBODY hit me, exceppt before my turn and on crit hits.
I passed through the first rooms of the ToF without a problem, except for some malicious critting Zombie Dragons. Gas Dragons, Woprms, Frost Dragons, Badmen, Fighter/Mage- I killed them all, and they didn't touch me.

Kary was easy, Kraken whacked me once, but I came back, and the most annoying fiend was Lich, but Lich never killed me. Just made me waste Heal Staff turns against Grey Worms and Fires.

And so I entered the Wind Room (Where enemies ran from me, I might add. A funny thing to note: In the beginning, enemies ALWAYS got the first attack. At lv. 50, I almost ALWAYS strike first. And then I run. If I don't, it's often a battle between who can run away the fastest. HAHAHA!) - Whatever- I entered the Wind Room and grabbed the Masmune and sliced up Timat for over 500 Damage and walked into Chaos and suddenly had a realization:

I'm not a Solo Thief anymore. I'm an unhittable, fast healing, highest damage dealing LIGHT WARRIOR. I sill have 46 heals left, and my HPs are maxed before Chaos. I don't get that in 4 player games. And it's not because of who I am. It's because of my awesome equipment.

Can I equip the Defense, Healing Staff, or Power Gauntlet? No. Can I equip the Masmune? Sure, but anybody can. It's a gratituous everyman weapon in the last monster dungeon of the game.
That's definitive of a Thief. *sarcasm*

No... No. The only honest way to beat this game is to slay Chaos without the Masmune. At least! But to teach him the same lesson that everybody else learned. With a Dragon Sword. Like a Thief. Not like a Light Warrior. I ain't one yet. Chaos lives. The world is yet to be unveiled of darkness.

Since I came this far with the Defense and Heal Staff, and since I don't think I can seriously beat the game without those tools. Not without extroardinary critical hit luck in nearly every fight, which is too impossible for me to comprehend or bother with, I decided to continue using them.
I turned around and refought Timat without the Masmune. (I didn't drop the Dragon Sword when I picked up the Masmune. How horrible and against the rules...)

Then I went at Garland born again, Dragon Sword blazing.
And here, my friends, I finally learned the truth.

And the truth is: SLO2

That's right, ladies and gentlemen. In a second, my Thief loses his intelligence. My 30 Damage turns to 1 or miss instantly.
I get Power Gauntlets, which I never used in pervious games, and tested them in similar conditions against Rock Golems, but I deemed that crap useless.
I returned to Chaos, ripped out a Masmune, SLO2! SLO2! SLO2!
And finally, Mr. 3000 HP Chaos (He never once failed to use CUR4 after taking about 1000 damage) casts SLO2, and it is ineffective!
And he finally died.

Will I return and try again with the Dragon Sword? Maybe, but probably not, since SLO2 is such a bitch.
Will I upgrade to a Ninja, get FAST, and then try with a Dragon Sword, since FAST is the only counter for SLO2 and, provided I only used it for that scenario, there would be no difference between a Thief winning with a D. Sword and a Ninja except that Chaos' SLO2 is nullified? Maybe. But I have a feeling that class change will leave me with no spell points since I'm already at lv. 50. I actually don't know. I'll edit this post when I find out.

Anyway... Yeah, I won. Any 300 HP monkey with a Masmune, a Defense, and a Heal Staff could do the same. (Actually, high Evade is probably a super important factor in using RUSE. So that ain't entirely true. But I have been using the Defense effectively since levels like 30. But, again, 30 isi usually more than a high enough level for 4 characters to win, and, therefore, already a high evade #, even though it's low level for a Solo Thief.)
(SPOILER)Monkeys have high evade anyway

So... That's it.
-Solo Thief.
-No more than 4 Armor and 4 Weapons in the inventory at any time (Except when picking up equipment out of a chest and deciding whether or not to keep it or discard it on some occasions. I ought to know what treasure chest holds what, really.)
-No Class Change (Obviously)
-No Save States
-No Masmune(SPOILER)Next Challenge

And... That's all I have to say. I hope I've inspired you all. If not, piss off. play a solo WM No-Class-Change game.

EDIT:
Class changing to Ninja at lv. 50 allows me to load up with lv.1-4 black magic, but I'm afraid my MP is terminally at zero. So... Alas, I will not bother beating the game solo Ninja.