The game isn’t out in the uk yet but by what people are saying and by the reviews its getting could this be the best final fantasy game ever?
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The game isn’t out in the uk yet but by what people are saying and by the reviews its getting could this be the best final fantasy game ever?
Not the best ever, but damn close.
what would you say was better then?
FFIV-VI, and FFT.
Better then it?
FFIX, FFIV, and FFVI
FFIX was a personal favorite of mine so it ranks above FFXII if only because it was my first.
FFIV's gameplay was, in my opinion, the pinicle of the ATB Battles. Its battles where fun, challenging(in hard-type), and strategy's can be made unlike many of the FFs where it was just make an Uber party
FFVI has a great storyline, and its battles were great as well. I'd basically spend the entire post listing off parts of this game that are great.
Worse then it?
FFVII, FFVIII, FFX, FFX-2
FFVII's storyline was good but doesn't match up to this game's, and its battle system is nothing compared to FFXII's.
FFVIII wasn't a great mark in FF history, its battles were easy, and become pathetic when mixed with such an abusable level up system. The storyline of the game is very forced, unlike in FFXII where the storyline flows well and is complex, yet easy to understand.
FFX was a great game, I enjoyed the battle system dispite it being so abusable, but its storyline fails in comparison to that of FFXII, and the Sphere Grid has nothing on the license board.
so what do u think of this game goldenboco? what score would you give it out of 10?
Personally I think that this game is great, I've logged in about 50 hours and at the moment I'll give it a 9/10 at the moment. I look foreward to seeing what the rest of this game has to offer.
i cant to play it either!
I haven't finished it yet, but if I were to base my opinions on my first 35 hours of gameplay in each game, XII would be pretty high up there. :P
Hi everyone...this is my first post... FFXII it´s my 2nd favorite after FF9 (the 3rd could be FFVI...)...with some more weeks this could change.I love the graphics...the characters..the storyline...the music...and after of the FFX and X-2 personal disappointment...FFXII save the title for me.
(forgive my bad english..please..)
It's pretty excellent. Not my personal favorite, but I only like them differently by slight margins, so it's a grand RPG in my mind still. If it had more plot and character development, it would be my number 1. That's not to say it isn't there, but after I beat it and reflected, I couldn't help but think the incredible translation masked that not too much actually happened. Or so my silly opinion goes :jess:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this is my favourite Final Fantasy thus far. Maybe not in terms of storyline, but in terms of everything else. I usually don't pick favourites when it comes to Final Fantasy, but this game has consumed me. I'll probably change my mind later though after I beat the game, like I usually do. I'm just caught in the moment right now.
FFT is the best FF. FFXII, so far, comes somewhere not long after it. Maybe around 3rd-4th best or so, from where I am so far (40-some hours into it).
FFIX is the ultimate Sakaguchi/Uematsu/Amano game, and FFXII is the ultimate Matsuno/Sakimoto/Yoshida game. And they're both better than everything else.
agreed, however I'm not that far! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
No idea what the foreign words meanbut they are both high in my ranking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryűkishi
They're the names of the main men behind each game.
Hironobu Sakaguchi on ideas, Nobuo Uematsu on music, and Yoshitaka Amano on artwork and character designs. These three men are ultimately responsible for everything we know and love as "classic Final Fantasy." FFIX was their swan song.
In a parallel fashion, Yasumi Matsuno, Hitoshi Sakimoto, and Akihito Yoshida have had their own thing going for many years with games such as the Ogre Battle series, Final Fantasy Tactics, and Vagrant Story. Compared to the original trifecta, their vision is distinctly different but certainly equal in terms of sheer genius. Case in point: FFXII.
it's better than ffx and it's got good graphics. best ff for ps2.
the storyline is pretty hard to understand in XII. for me, the best was IX.
Yes. It's quickly climbing up my ladder of quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowy
Yes, FFIX and FFXII are both my favorite FFs now. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryűkishi
This is my favourite Final Fantasy.
It sounds promising what’s the music and the gameplay like? Is it very different or Similar? (my favourite FF games were 7 and 8 i didnt rate X at all)
Nah, not the best, but still pretty good.
ffxii is my fourth favorite in the series at this point, behind ffix ffx and ffvii.
40 hours in and i'm enjoying it alot, and although i didn't really like the battle system in the first few hours of play, now that i've fought espers and hard bosses i've changed my mind. its pretty wicked.
/
for me FFIX is the best...this is second
Wow, am I just imagining things or does this game make people like FFIX better since it's been mentioned so many times in this thread? :p I don't know about FFXII being the best FF because I haven't played the game yet, and I try not to get myself too hyped (I thought FFX would be the best FF, and it almost turned out to be my least favorite FF), though FFXII has got pretty good reviews, such as a 40/40 score from Famitsu and a 9.0 from GameSpot. It's also one of the most awaited FFs, if not the most.
Kishi: Are you saying FFIX and FFXII were your favorite games by Sakaguchi/Uematsu/Amano team and Matsuno/Sakimoto/Yoshida team, respectively? It's amazing if FFXII even surpasses FFT, or Vagrant Story, which some people consider a masterpiece (I think it also got a 40/40 score from Famitsu).
yea reviews dont mean anything!
I absolutely agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth1999AD
Hmm, I'm not far enough to make a complete judgement yet but thus far I think this will very easily become second or third fave. Only VII and X have any real chance of maintaining their positions; I never liked IX much and XII is already in my eyes better than VIII and VI.
the thing about this game is is that it's got such a drastically different feel and appeal than any of the other final fantasy games (its kinda like a linear MMORPG) that it stands out so much more than any of them in my opinion. the battle system, the characters, the graphics, the music, the terrific translation and voice acting, all add together to make this game easily my favorite, if not second favorite. i would probably say my faves are either vii or viii or tactics, which no one agrees with me on, but after close to just 25 hours of gameplay this game has me hooked and infatuated. GO BUY IT...you shant regret it. 10/10
Your all lucky b*stards. By the time it gets its release here (uk) you'll all be playing FFXIII.
I love this ff! Its fun, additcting an you can do so much crap in it. You can do mob hunts if you get bored of the game, there are so many dang weapons you can get an use. An the quikenings are awsome, an i love how they did the chaining thing!
it sounds good
I'm somewhat less enthusiastic.
I would say it is a great game when rated on an absolute basis, but rated up against the Final Fantasy name (no MQ jokes), I would say it comes in lacking.
I just bought this game last night and I haven't put it down. I've played it for 6 hours straight and you better believe there's more to come. This game is amazing. I'm extremely surprised by the voice acting and the story. The graphics I don't really care about because - I mean - look at Final Fantasy I-VI. Great games. 16-bit, 32-bit graphics. The music I really like because it reminds me of movie scores, and while it's no Uematsu score, this score is very good.
Its up there, but not surpassing VII or VI in my eyes. Definately third though.
It doesn't hold a candle to FFX but it is quite good, better than X2.
Music - Worse than X
Story - Worse than X
Game start - Slow, while X exceeds at it. I couldn't put the joystick down until Tidus got to Besaid. XII is like all regular games: drags on at the beginning
Game play - Better than X, battle system more slick, controls streamlined, gambits make leveling up fun... I just miss all the fun in-battle banter X had like Auron saying "This is how it's done". XII has just grunts and whimpers. Yuck!
Flow of missions / story - X is much better, unexpected but fun. XII is a bit weird and off putting. Hunting for a rogue tomato is one of your first missions. WTF ? Leave the cuteness to moogles!
Graphics - Better than X and that is saying something!!!
Overdrives / Special attacks - XII has some very cool "quickenings" up to par or better than X but the Special dresphere attacks at X2 were better IMHO.
Espers / Summons - Haven't got one yet :(
World - XII's world is huge!!! It wins over X in vastness, variety and graphics, though I do wish XII had some temples and hyms :D
This is by far not the best FF.... music is weak and the story is extremely weak... i don't know how anyone can find the music in this game attractive..
It's "ambient music", semi classical easy listening schlepp of the kind they put on call waiting phone mazes :tongue: Not annoying like FFX2's technopop but too bland to be of note. Definitely NOT a Nobuo Uematsu piece :DQuote:
Originally Posted by skillzboy4
I put a smal 1 min video of some of the Quickenings to the background of a Uematsu piece at Youtube and it got much improved!!! :D
I like how you think you can make sweeping judgments like these when you're still so early in the game that you haven't even gotten an Esper yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renmiri
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii RyűkishiI like how you think you can make sweeping judgments like these when you're still so early in the game that you haven't even gotten an Esper yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renmiri
I don't think you can compare this to X anyway. They are completely different beasts. There are things X does that XII doesn't, and things XII does that X doesn't. Before you sit down to play XII, you really need to expel all comparisons to X from your mind completely, because it ain't the same ballpark kids. If you're constantly thinking "X did this, X has this, X that" then you're not gonna like it. XII is different on purpose, you should love it because it's different from X :jess:
I know that sounds hypocritical because I have made semi-comparison statements around before, but really I was only saying that I personally like X better, not that X is better. I like them both, I just happen to like what X did more is all.
This pointless rant was only 2 paragraphs, that's not too shabby.
Well but that is just it, FFX got me hooked on the first 5 minutes, with that blitzbal game, heavy metal song, a huge fiend attacking. And it only got better from then on, with Tidus sent "1,000 years on the future" and the weird world / society he found himself on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii RyűkishiI like how you think you can make sweeping judgments like these when you're still so early in the game that you haven't even gotten an Esper yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renmiri
XII drags on and I have yet to find one memorable song. Even the opening song is fluff, more annoying than good.
The initial missions are pretty dumb too, capture a rogue tomato and a cactus with a flower on his head ? Walk around telling everyone you are someone else ? Compare this with saving a summoner on X or winning a championship of a sport as cool as blitzball. There is just absolutely no comparison!
The game did get more fun after I got a party, the quickenings and some less dumb missions so I'll wait and see. But I fear this game will be like X2, i.e., some cool gameplay, battles and graphics lost on a weak story and lame missions. But at least XII does not have the annoying technopop playing! :tongue:
I do love the world they created and the graphics. Gambits are fun. Battles are fun too. License board is as cool as sphere grids or better.
But the game clearly lacks something. It won't be the best ever, not by a long shot.
PS: The X team is reunited doing XIII so we may have another great game from SE yet! :D
Honestly? The best FF game ever? Damn close. Best FF game in recent memory? Most definitely. The story well executed, even if you people think it's not immersive enough. It makes a lot more sense to me than FFX's did. While I love Uematsu, Sakimoto has put together a score that is gorgeous in its' own right.
Personally, I found FFX very lacking overall. Yes, it was a fun game, but it felt so fluff compared to this, or the days of old.
This game gives us an even array of characters, and so far, I really haven't found any of them annoying (Though the whole Larsa thing STILL confuses me... boy/girl. ugh). Quickenings are something I really missed (ok, so didn't miss, but giant limit-y type things, YAY!).
It does change the flavor and formula of FF, but that's not a bad thing. Innovation is great. They could have stuck with a tried and true formula, but kudos for breaking the mold. It really is refreshing. You can even take XIII back to the old style now if you'd like. It's just nice to finally get something different.
In any case, I'm only 25 hours into the game (Salikawood), so I'll have to hold off full judgement until I'm done, but this is a gem of a game!
Really, the beginning of FFX sucked the most, IMO. Everyone is hooked on their first Final Fantasy, because they never know what Final Fantasy is.Quote:
Well but that is just it, FFX got me hooked on the first 5 minutes, with that blitzbal game, heavy metal song, a huge fiend attacking. And it only got better from then on, with Tidus sent "1,000 years on the future" and the weird world / society he found himself on.
The opening song was taken from FFI, FFIV, FFVII and FFVIII. It's one of Final Fantasy tradition. I dunno why you hate the opening song, though, I like it so much that I listen to it everytime I play FFXII.Quote:
XII drags on and I have yet to find one memorable song. Even the opening song is fluff, more annoying than good.
That tomato is a monster, you face a stupid leech-like thingy in the beginning of FFX. That is far worse than the tomato. That tomato is a hunt, which introduces you to a sidequest, the main point of this game is to save a kingdom. Saving a kingdom > Saving a summoner. Blitzball sucked, just like eestlinc said, that rubbish mini-game in FFI is better. And Blitzball is another important sidequest in the game, don't compare it to "I'm Captain Basch" mini-game. Compare it to the Mob Hunt.Quote:
The initial missions are pretty dumb too, capture a rogue tomato and a cactus with a flower on his head ? Walk around telling everyone you are someone else ? Compare this with saving a summoner on X or winning a championship of a sport as cool as blitzball. There is just absolutely no comparison!
As well as FFIII, FFV, FFVI, and FFIX.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dell
I thought FFIX have different opening song.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii RyűkishiAs well as FFIII, FFV, FFVI, and FFIX.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dell
The only games prior to FFXII that actually "open" with that song are FFI, FFIII, and FFIV. But it's still present in the rest of the games mentioned.
This is, of course, if you're talking about Prologue. If you're talking about Prelude, that's been in FFI through FFX, although FFVIII only features a few notes from it during its ending credits and Game Over screen, and FFX was cursed with a crappy electronic remix version.
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryűkishi
Thanks for telling. :)
To be honest, I do feel that the game drags on a bit at times. This is probably because I've been busy with other things than FFXII, and when I get stuck on a boss or I'm dirt poor and don't feel like grinding for an hour it takes away all the exaltation of a brand new adventure and replaces it with an unease that maybe I won't like this game so much after all. That's not to say that the battles aren't fun and that this game isn't revolutionary as far as the FF series goes, it's just kinda dragging along. Thankfully, there is alot to look forward to regarding the development of the story, but I just wish it wouldn't take such a long time to do so.
Maybe I'm just tired right now, but Final Fantasy IV isn't a Final Fantasy now? What's going on here? O_oQuote:
Everyone is hooked on their first Final Fantasy, because they never know what Final Fantasy is.
I liked this game a lot. I'd put it pretty high up in the list because it had a significant amount of development time and utilized a different art direction than some of the other Final Fantasy games.
eh.. it's a great game.... doesn't have the same feel as the old FF's... not quite as exciting... and it's definitely not as good of story.
I find FF 12 to be too different to be singularly best, no matter how good it may be. But despite that so far I am only entertained by it, it's interesting and well-directed but is so far not the life-shaking thing some other FFs were. FF7, though it perhaps wasn't as complete as Tactics or 6, got away with its memorable cool feel. Tactics and 6, for me, were just purely beautiful. :) FF 12 however is very interesting. It's not exactly the type of game I would devote a piece of my worldly heart to as the other ones but I have fun with it:) And I find it's ever so much better than 10 and X-2 :)
Agreed 100% . My intention was not to offend FFXII lovers. The thread is "is this the best game ever" and IMHO it clearly is not, although it is a very fun and enjoyable game.Quote:
Originally Posted by six underground
The dragging on at the start is normal for any game but it does take the "best game ever" title away from FFXII for me. The music is good but I have yet to find a memorable tune, let alone tunes I'm fanatic about like "To Zanarkand" or "Kuon - Eternity of Waves and Light" (X2 opening). The graphics are outstanding but FF was never about just graphics to me. The story is weak, saving an empire is all well and good but it is so cliche! And Bash and Noah, want more cliche than THAT ?
Heresy!!!!!! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by six underground
I do believe that FFXII has replaced FFVI as my favorite FF. It is everything that I love about the FF series(Big bosses, sidequests, optional bosses, summons, gorgeous music, expansive cutscenes).
Empirically judging FFXII necessarily leads it to be judged based on opinions; and of course people are going to be nostalgically connected to other FF's so their judgments are going to be flavored by their past experiences with the series without focusing on FFXII objectively. This is especially true for people who have only played 2-3 FFs. You can't base a game's rank solely on one element of the game that you liked better in another game.
That said, I honestly have a hard time saying that this is the best FF ever. When I think of FF at its essence I think of Amano's art, Uematsu's music, and the kind of stories that Sakaguchi dreamed up. Uematsu's music defines +90% of the FF world. Amano's art influences, if not pervades, EVERY FF. Sakaguchi's storytelling is simplistic and is also part of every FF. Uematsu's music is the only thing missing from FFXII, but as I stated in another thread, I think that graphic abilities have grown to a point that Uematsu's music, which was absolutely essential in telling the stories of the early games, is no longer necessary for a FF to feel FF. So I suppose that something else has to be considered to set a FF apart as best. It must be FFXII's battle system. Detailed, complex monsters are an integral part of FF. Their detailed artistry and fighting styles meant that given the limits of graphical capacity in the past, fights had to be setup in random battles outside of real-time/space. But now all of that detail can be expressed realtime while still allowing for the gargantuan size of the games, and so the magic and fighting styles can be felt better than ever before, and I think that it will only get better from here. I see FFs in the future with the ability to express the complex job systems in realtime. Ninjas that move swiftly and silently, thieves whose dexterity can be exploited on different parts of the mobs' bodies, summoners who can summon realtime(ala FFXI but more spectacular), dancers and bards who hold concerts in realtime battle, et cetera. So although this active battle system is completely at odds with every FF before it, I think it conveys FF-essence more than ever before. [And honestly I have to give consideration to FFX-2 just because it was the guinea pig for the active system seen in FFXII. Too bad it was such a horrible game.]
Really the best FF ever is FFXI, but because it is online and the general FF population will never play it, I don't take it into consideration at this point. FFXII is the next best thing. Although it departs from the FF formula at a few stages, there is no better FF game, and will eventually allow for the creation of the ultimate best FF ever, maybe XIV or XV.
But really I don't care which FF is the best. I love them all. The greatness of the Final Fantasy series as a whole is what I care about, and that is something which nobody can argue.
QFTQuote:
Originally Posted by chionos
I have to agree. FFXII battle system is indeed "the best ever" even for this biased FFX fanatic :p It's is much better than all others, including FFX2 which I only ended up finally liking because of the ABT and the opening song (plus Tidus and Yuna reunion of course) :love:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RenmiriWell but that is just it, FFX got me hooked on the first 5 minutes, with that blitzbal game, heavy metal song, a huge fiend attacking. And it only got better from then on, with Tidus sent "1,000 years on the future" and the weird world / society he found himself on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii RyűkishiI like how you think you can make sweeping judgments like these when you're still so early in the game that you haven't even gotten an Esper yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renmiri
XII drags on and I have yet to find one memorable song. Even the opening song is fluff, more annoying than good.
The initial missions are pretty dumb too, capture a rogue tomato and a cactus with a flower on his head ? Walk around telling everyone you are someone else ? Compare this with saving a summoner on X or winning a championship of a sport as cool as blitzball. There is just absolutely no comparison!
The game did get more fun after I got a party, the quickenings and some less dumb missions so I'll wait and see. But I fear this game will be like X2, i.e., some cool gameplay, battles and graphics lost on a weak story and lame missions. But at least XII does not have the annoying technopop playing! :tongue:
I do love the world they created and the graphics. Gambits are fun. Battles are fun too. License board is as cool as sphere grids or better.
But the game clearly lacks something. It won't be the best ever, not by a long shot.
PS: The X team is reunited doing XIII so we may have another great game from SE yet! :D
the X team is doing XIII!?!?!?!?!!? omg u just made my day!
I think he means that the first game you play is the one you appreciate the most, simply because it is your first experience. If so, then it definitely was not the experience for me; I don't find FFIV to be the best, nor my favorite (or FFVIII demos for that matter). As for FFXII, it's not my favorite either, and is probably somewhere in the middle as far as how I see the game in quality, but it passed my expectations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeromus_X
Takes up plenty time for me, and it's looking more epic than FFX based on content.
no, it can not and may not be the best final fantasy.. sorry:(
I liked it a lot, but I find the story was a little too straight forward. I like a little complexity. Also, I am near the end, but I looked ahead to the final battle and I was amazed. It looks pretty simple based off of stats of the boss. I mean, it should be slightly harder than that. I think it would be nice if his level were a little higher, forcing you to do some side-quest work or something. I guess that is just my opinion though. Everything else, I cannot complain too much.
I don't believe it is the best but I do feel it is very important to the series as a whole. It seems the most complete of the FF worlds and this may in fact be it's true strong point. The music, I will agree is not nearly as memorable as some of the composer's previous work but it at least works for the feel of the game. There are no bad tracks, it's just not memorable.
I won't argue about the cast and plot cause I've been doing that in two other threads now. I do find that alot of people miss out and judge it too quickly cause it's not nearly as melodramatic as the past FF's. It is just told in a very sutle way. I feel you have to read between the lines a little more and watch the characters reaction while talking to gain insight into them. Of course even I'll admit that I may also be reading too much into everything and most of what I feel is really going on is in my head;)
It is nearly flawless as a game once you get used to the new system. It's only glaring faults are the basic problem you find in most MMO's which is grinding, though FFXII does a slightly better job in fixing this issue, it is still there:cry: .
My only hope is that SE will remember the strengths of this game when it starts to work on the next game. It is definetly the best of the PS2 FF's no contest.
ok I didnt' read this whole thread, so sorry if anythign is repeated, I do like this game as far as the actual gameplay, but to me FF strongest point has always been the storyline, and the story in this game is weak,. I highly enjoy the game, but it just feels like something is lacking.
Personally, I think that it is the best Final Fantasy yet...Just because it has the MMO sensibilities in a Single-player Framework, and thats a first for console! =)
FFXII is 70 hours of dungeon crawling, with a little plot advancement here and there and no character development.
The game is a massive dissapointment, and nowhere near the best FF. It moves way to slowly and the most interesting thing you'll learn about the characters are their names.
The music is hit or miss with this game too. Some of it is great, but alot of it just plain sucks, and none of it stands out.
With that said, this game is absolutely fantastic. I haven't had this much fun with a game in quite some time. It is great, but it doesn't deserve the praise it's getting. FFIX, VI, VII, and Tactics are all better than FFXII. I like FFVIII better personally, but that's probably due to the fact that VIII introduced me to the series.
How can you say that it's both a massive disappointment and absolutely fantastic? If you think it's fantastic and are still massively disappointed, your expectations are set far too high.
I would disagree about the plot. There is a bit too much dungeon crawling, but I've only played the game 27 hours or so and I think there is ample political intrigue to keep the story going, though it does move slower than most of them, but that's to be expected when the story isn't of your typical save-the-world variety.
It's really just up to your opinion and how you like to play games. Personally, I don't think it's the best in the series, but the Gambits are a fantastic way to make random battles less annoying, the world is vast and beautiful, and full of things you can do, and the plot is far more adult than ever before. Top notch stuff.
Because FFXII was a good game when rated on a scale of all games, but a dissapointment when rated on a scale of Final Fantasies.
There are plenty of games out there just as good as the Final Fantasy series. Just because a game has "Final Fantasy" in its title, it's not all of a sudden on some new scale superior to the rest of video games. I suppose that rating would make sense if you considered every game in the series to be superb, but I'd consider that a bit silly to begin with. :p
I think he meant the gameplay is fantastic, but the rest of it is sorely lacking. I might be wrong. That's how I feel, anyway: the gameplay is amazing, but the plot, characters, etc. are all sort of meh. I wasn't as disappointed as nik seems to be, but I still share his basic feelings of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azar
There are also many games worse than the Final Fantasy series. The fact of the mater is, when a game is labeled 'Final Fantasy' there are certain expectations placed on it, differing from person to person. Since the game is labeled Final Fantasy we compare it to what we expect out of Final Fantasy, if it were labeled 'Dalmasca' or something like that then we would rate it against our expectations for RPGs in general.
does it hold up to "Final Fantasy XI: Chains of Promathia"?
Does anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukasa
The answer is most definately NO.
FFXI is above and beyond anything else SE has ever done, so it exists in a class all its own.
FFXII does a very good job, however, of delivering the MMORPG feel in an offline package.
Something that brings up that I've thought about a lot:
I wish that SE would use the hardrives available to some of the consoles to make expansions for regular offline console games. It's probably not anything practical or logical for them to do, just a bit of wishful thinking on my part.
Read it and party!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by skillzboy4
http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/706/706153p1.html
Quote:
Final Fantasy XIII (PS3)
Motomu Toriyama (Director)
Yoshinori Kitase (Producer)
Tetsuya Nomura (Character Design)
Nobuo Uematsu (Theme Song Composition)
Masashi Hamazu (Composer)
Eiji Fujii (Movie Director)
Isamu Kamikokuryou (Art Director)
X and VII is a disappointment (To me). I doubt FFXIII is gonna be good. However, I won't judge it yet, I just got a feeling.Quote:
Originally Posted by RenmiriRead it and party!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by skillzboy4
http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/706/706153p1.html
Quote:
Final Fantasy XIII (PS3)
Motomu Toriyama (Director)
Yoshinori Kitase (Producer)
Tetsuya Nomura (Character Design)
Nobuo Uematsu (Theme Song Composition)
Masashi Hamazu (Composer)
Eiji Fujii (Movie Director)
Isamu Kamikokuryou (Art Director)
I have a love/hate relationship with this game right now. I've logged in 90 hours of the game and honestly I'm getting bored. I'm not attached to any of the characters the way I was in FFX (one of my favorites storyline wise. I thought it was the most creative!)
Storyline: The story starts out great! There seems to be so much energy, so many interesting things and unknowns. And that's where they leave you. After 10 hours, anything "interesting" they bring up isn't talked about again. You go on missions that seem to end pointlessly. You get magical items that are supposed to advance the story, yet aren't talked about indepth. I found myself advancing the storyline, taking an hour to do some sidequests and then forgetting what the hell I was supposed to do next.
Character Development: Penelo who? Seriously, half the characters in this game could just as easily not be there and have the story advance all the same. You could throw out Vaan, Penelo, and perhaps even Fran and have the story advance near the same. None of them play vital roles at all, but are rather "along for the ride". I was talking to my boyfriend as I played the game and asked him what the point of Penelo was and he said he had yet to find a reason. You can sum up the back stories of most characters in 3 sentences. There are no background arks that tell anything interesting about the characters (Minus Fran in one small section, but it's hardly in depth). I didn't feel the characters grew or changed much through the story. Not much character interaction, no romance (which is a good or bad thing depending on who you are), very Star Wars. Characters are killed off and you barely feel a thing.
Voice acting is A+. I'll give it that.
Music is a hit or miss. Depends on what you like. I was "so-so" with it. Some tracks were awesome, others were blah. Very FF:Tactics.
Battle system is fun and open. You'll be doing a lot of hack and slash and little magic casting (besides white magic). By the time you get the strongest spells, they do almost the same DPS (damage per second) as quite simply just having auto attack on the monster. The damage ratio between spells vs. melee is pretty awful. Spells should have been stronger.
Espers have little to no backstory. The first summon you get has some story, but the rest are just there. You get them through the storyline. Half of them are optional with no story. They appear, you fight them. The end. The only "story" you get is from the game's beast log which tells some info on them that you don't get in the game otherwise.
Animation is very nice. Ingame, it's pushing the limits of what the PS2 can handle. It's a step up from FFX. Environments are lovely and the cities are beautiful. Dungeons have a tendancy to be repeat square rooms with lots of monsters though.
FMVs are nothing we haven't seen before. FFX had better, more eye-candy ones, in my humble opinion.
So, comparing FF12 to FF10.
Storyline: FF10 wins that one by a long shot. I was almost in tears at the end of FF10. Talk about unhappy endings!
Battle System: Toss up. FF10 had a larger sphere grid that took far longer to finish than the license board. At the end of FF12 (without much work at all) all my characters were clones of each other differing in only a few STR points or MGK points here or there.
Gameplay: Faster in FF12 by far. Both are good being Final Fantasy games. I'm ok with both honestly.
Characters: Much more memorable ones in FFX. :( I'm sorry, I really wanted Vaan and Penelo to have points and kept waiting for the points to come, but alas, they didn't.
Music: FF10 wins. The only thing I liked better in FF12 was the theme song. Suteki da Ne bothered me for some reason.
And a final note: FF12 has some oddly long load times. Between using Quickenings and changing zones, there's this slightly longer than should be lag fest.
I'm going to apologize for being a hypocrite right now.
I'm sorry, I won't do it again...:cry:
Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I have to laugh at how two people can play the same games and walk away with completely differnet opinions.
I could take your entire post Coronet, replace FFXII with FFX, change a few names, and you would have my basic opinion of how I feel about FFX. Though I wouldn't be that generous with the combat system review.
We are both entitled to our respective opinions though so I'm not trying to say you are wrong. We just have really different taste. I only mention it cause to me, you are comparing FFXII to what I feel is the worst game in the series. Whereas you feel FFX is the best. I'm not trying to pick a fight though, so please take this with a good sense of humor.
Anyway, I would like to ask that we try to tone down the point by point comparisons to other FF games. Please:D
Scathe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coronet
FFVII Summon Materia have no story at all. Even don't have some log to tell their story.Quote:
Espers have little to no backstory. The first summon you get has some story, but the rest are just there. You get them through the storyline. Half of them are optional with no story. They appear, you fight them. The end. The only "story" you get is from the game's beast log which tells some info on them that you don't get in the game otherwise.
I never said FF7 had a good story either, now did I? :)Quote:
FFVII Summon Materia have no story at all. Even don't have some log to tell their story.
Yes!!! I thought it was only me being impatient but those ARE long load times!Quote:
Originally Posted by Coronet
Love / hate - Ditto, the game is very uneven. For example, graphics kick butt but music is... unmemorable, insipid. I will not catch myself humming it like I do with Sutekidane, Hymn of the Fayth and other FF themes. World design is very cool, but story plot is weak. Battle system is great but Espers are lame and License Board is pretty cool but in the end a disappointment as it makes all my guys clones of each other.
FFXII has some pioneering stuff, like gambits, clan ranks and license board, that will be remembered forever, but also is very weak on some other areas.
Fitting that it is the last for PS2, a harbinger of good things to come for PS3, when they iron out the kinks :D
Some RPG make the summon very important to the story, while some make it not-important-at-all (Other than the use in battle). Some of them have its story to not touch the summon part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coronet
Sphere Grid is the same. All of your party member end up the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renmiri
It is good, but I wouldn't say the best ever. I believe that people think it could be good, because it isn't very difficult, and its Licence system and equippings are fairly easy, much like Final Fantasy VII where you just equipped the materia like a weapon, and it was simple and not a difficult game. That is why people like it so much. But it is one of my personal favorites, but I wouldn't call it the best Final Fantasy.....yet.:D
Not in the middle of the game!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dell
For the fanatics that get all items to 99, learn all skills, get all celestial weapons yes, but LB is so easy (and small) that anyone, even a casual gamer like me can fill it out entirely without even trying.
If it was like 3X the current size then it would be like the Sphere grid, i.e., hard to fill it up on a "regular" game.
Just finished it last night, and I can definately say it's my favorite FF game. It's a lot more subtle and mature in terms of plot and characters, and that's what made it so great to me. Blows FFX out of the water at any rate.
Nope, it's by far not anywhere close to being the best. Graphics have gone down a level, the story seems to be choppy and unbalanced to how much you're exposed to it. It lacks fun mini games. The fighting is great, but sometimes too difficult for me. The voice acting seems much stranger in this one to me, as most of the time it doesn't match the characters' mouthing as with X most of the time it did. I suppose it's all because it wasn't made by the same people who did all the other XI. Nobuo, Hinorobi, and Amano are the best!
The characters lack diversity as well with License bored being the problem with it, the Sphere grid definetly changed that in X Tidus was speedy, strong, and was in charge of increasing the party's turns, and decreasing the enemy's. LuLu was evasive and had high magic attack and resistance, while Wakka was profficient in taking down aerials and causing status ailments. I know you could practically make anyone have any abilities, but you can't do that from start, when teleport stones, and key spheres are scarce, most people will go with the default path anyway.
You mean Hironobu. And none of those guys had more than an extremely tenuous connection to FFX.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley Schovitz
Then, can I say the same thing? License Board does not make your character a clone in the middle of the game!!Quote:
Originally Posted by RenmiriNot in the middle of the game!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dell
For the fanatics that get all items to 99, learn all skills, get all celestial weapons yes, but LB is so easy (and small) that anyone, even a casual gamer like me can fill it out entirely without even trying.
If it was like 3X the current size then it would be like the Sphere grid, i.e., hard to fill it up on a "regular" game.
Before you say it's so easy, let me ask you something, have you completed your LB yet?
Sphere Grid only require 1 AP to activate one node, License Board require 5-235 LP to activate one node. And there are people who didn't finished his/her license board in "regular" game, even some hard-training player like me didn't finished my license board on my hard-training playthrough.
I have finished my LB and I still don't think it's a good game. The story didn't do it for me. Hell, the story was just lacking anyway. This game is not good, just another disappointment from Square-Enix.
Thanks a lot you Dragon Warrior, Monster, etc. people. You ruined Final Fantasy.
I think it is the best. I didn't think it would be but I really like the new battle system.
It tis the best. License board might be fairly straight forward but you have to grind forever to fill the thing out all the way. I am not a huge fan of it but I do think it is a massive improvement over the sphere grid. The sphere grid is a retarded way of gaining one level. Instead of having to get 2000 exp for a level all you need is 200 exp for one part of what would constitute a level. That really pissed me off and I am glad that levels are back and now I can choose who learns what. I don't have to have everyone learn everything.
FFXIII will also suck due to the people involved.
It's not even in the top 5, but there are some good ideas here that I hope get carried over and expanded upon in FFXIII (like the battle system and the LB).
It'sinteresting to see the bits and pieces some like and others dont'
Personally XII, bad story, loved the gameplay, wasn't huge on the LB, would prefer jobs or classes or something, and I think XIII will be the greatest ever, if they keep certain aspects of X, and XII
So . . . what was it you felt was the worst game in this series?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Personally, while I don't think is the best game, I certainly find it a good one. I do agree there seems to be virtually no point to Vaan or Penelo, whereas Ashe, Basch, Fran, and Balthier do have points. Hell, even Larsa, a guest character, has more point than Vaan and Penelo.
The game could use more humor, though. Only laugh I've ever gotten was when Vaan asked . . . something he shouldn't have.
That said, I actually like the music in this game much more than I like the music in any of the other games I've played (which have been V through X).
I'm pretty darn close. The top board is all but done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dell
I have completed magicks, techs and power ups for all my characters, by the end of Miriam stillshrine. And all the armor / weapon /accessories I can buy too.
I left gambits at 5-7 per character and concentrated my guys / gals on using Axes, bows and swords.
I could have varied the weapons but why if Axes give so much more hit power ?
I should warn-I make long posts.
So, 'best FF ever', eh?
I'm new around here because an evil friend of mine told me about this and I just needed to check it out.
Before I get into my thoughts on this topic at hand, Renmiri-I see that you truly love FFX. I'd like to give something in that regard-you're dead right that FFX had the BEST opening of any FF game. For me though, FFX focused on the characters I cared least about and the characters that I was truly interested in (*COUGH* LULU! *coughcough*) the game sorta' just tacked on. An affront which slapped FFX down so hard I got to the final battle and asked myself, "..why am I playing this?" As amazing as Auron was, he was not enough to bring me into the conclusion sequence of a game which dragged on, though for different reasons than FFXII (yes, I agree XII does drag on some).
Now for the matter at hand.
Before I played FFXII, if you would've asked me what the best FF game ever was, I'd have said FFIX or Tactics, more or less depending on the day. FFIX was a beautiful game where I really could feel the plights of the characters resonating strongly within me-it's not a far stretch to say that a little bit of Vivi and a little bit of Freya are part of who I really am. The art style was precisely that-an art STYLE. Seeing faithul renditions of Amano's work carried into 3D was enough to move me tears of joy. Complimented with the amazingly perfect, dramatic score by Uematsu, it was the finest game I'd ever played, especially in the FF series... This is doubly true when people count Tactics as a spin off.
But now that's the funny thing, isn't it? People don't always count Tactics as a spin off. Where FFIX made me relate to the characters on a personal, touching level, Tactics exposed us to innocence and how it was stripped of a boy, a land, and a people by ruthless people vieing for power over one another. A blood soaked ascension, a son who murders his own father, boys who were best friends before brother betrayed brother... Tactics set a mark for complex interwoven relationships between world, land, people, government, and tension. Then it went and coupled it up with a way for me to design the characters I wanted to play and I was hooked. In addition to all that, the Lucavi were the best demons I have ever seen in a Final Fantasy story. To the entire story, they were almost secondary because it was man's lust for power that brought them back to that world.
Vagrant Story gets a mention here because it took what they did in Tactics and took it a few steps further. Unfortunately, Vagrant Story was nearly unplayable for me if I wasn't using certain weapons-VS's nearly 'rythym game' mechanic really messed up my enjoyment of the greatest gothic adventure outside of Castlevania. Nothing pisses off a gamer more than screwed up potential.
So now on to XII. XII isn't the amalgam of everything I'd mentioned that might make it truly the best thing I've ever seen, but you can only push things so far every time you push. I wasn't an early adopter of XII-I let my evil friend I mentioned buy it first so I could check it out first hand. I waited for a friend of mine with tastes similar to mine tell me 'yay' or 'nay'. What I can say for sure off FFXII is that if you're playing it because you want to have some kind of deep, personal attachment to the characters... get it out of your system, that's not going to happen. That game was FFIX, and most of 'you' didn't 'get it'.
The story off FFXII is an epic spread across two empires and many nations-it's not that it's impersonal, it's that these events are so much larger than any one character everyone seems insignificant. In spite of that... These characters have their own motivations, and Vaan, stupid kid that he is, is growing up as time goes on. This is something I can't say for ANY character in all of Final Fantasy except Ramza and Delita, if you count them. Even my precious FFIX doesn't actually grow the characters-by the time Zidane finally begins to learn anything, time isn't left in that story for him to fumble around a bit more in the dark and make real decisions that are tested by the fires of fate. He grows, but by then, he's already comitted to his path.
It's new, it's different, and it definately beats the FF game I start judging all FF games by. The first one I played, of course-FFVI. It's still up in the air for me if it beats IX and Tactics, or is merely the next truly great game in their company in my FF collection.
Though let's be clear-that is nothing to be ashamed of. It does already beat both of those titles put together in one way. The world off FFXII beats any and all FF worlds-no, let's go further than that. The world off FFXII is as alive and believable as a pre-programmed world made of text and characters with preset movements can conceivably be at this point in time. FFXII has thrown down a gauntlet in challenge to the way RPGs have been created in the past. This isn't conjecture, this is a fact. By challenging the very 'stuff' of those older games, everyone in this topic has a fiery opinion, and everyone here agrees on at least one thing.
It's the most different Final Fantasy of them all.
That it did :love: Txs!Quote:
Originally Posted by LazarCotoron
I hated the end with Tidus dying :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by LazarCotoron
I guess this is why I've been ranting at FFXII so much. It could have been better than all, but...Quote:
Originally Posted by LazarCotoron
On the contrary. Tidus grew from a little clownish "surfer dude" to a world savior who sacrifices himself right before your eys on X. His voice even changed!Quote:
Originally Posted by LazarCotoron
Agreed 100% which makes me downright pissed off at the lame writing / weak soundtrack. The potential wasted thingie.Quote:
Originally Posted by LazarCotoron
You can say the same about FFX2. And it still doesn't excuse X2 from being a lame game, wasting the potential of a brilliant previous game.Quote:
Originally Posted by LazarCotoron
I wish we'd get a sequel of XII, this time character based with decent writing :love:
Desiring a character based story versus a 'swept in the tide of events' story is a valid point. Different writing for different people.
We all see potential from a different point of view-our unique points of view allow us to see things that someone else may not even notice-heck, they might not care at all, and worse yet, downright HATE the potential you see for something amazing.
I love XII so far. I REALLY thought I was going to love X, but the story lacked the elements I was looking for. The gameplay of X was a far cry better than previous entries in the series, and some of X's scenes were amazing. For me, X didn't tie it all together and 'sell the deal' in the same way that VI and IX did -for me-. There was so much in X.. but the second it turned into a time travel story, it took a huge hit in my personal PoV (point of view) because I have issues with time travel stories, personally. I felt it never recovered the power and momentum of the opening, so when I was litterally about to walk into the next screen to fight Sin for the big final battle, all my experiences of the game ran through my head. I realized that I couldn't recall very much at all of the story, other than how the one sequence in which you get to walk around and talk to the other girls for a glimpse of 'what could've been' was a total sham-I thought I was going to learn about the other characters for a change, and really push, at least a little bit, off of the 'rails' the game was on.
But they turned FFX into a railroad ride.... a railroad ride I was stuck taking with Yuna, the girl who's personality is that she doesn't have a personality. Rikku had a personality! Lulu appeared to have a personality, but they didn't even attempt to let you know her well enough to find out if she had one.
Like I said. I see you love X a lot-I don't need to come between you and that love. I feel differently about the game, and heck-it might be as simple as that I'm a guy. *shrugs* :mad: Yeah, it's kinda' lame Tidus died at the end...
Your point on X-2 is dead on. And in that regard, not all challenges are good. In terms of the challenges issued from FFXII, though... I think, or at least hope that FFXII's world design becomes the new point where every game world tries to reach. Not just Final Fantasy games-I mean EVERY game. When making a living world, it needs to live.
I don't know how much of a gamer you consider yourself, Renmiri. I don't know how far you will take things, but I can see one thing in particular. The fact that you understand the point about wasted potential and then can even say that you're pissed because you see the wasted potential in something DEFINATELY makes you an ACTUAL gamer. And so we're clear, that's a compliment coming from me.
Txs! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by LazarCotoron
Aye, and writing is a lot easier to fix (errr.. make it to my taste) than graphics / gameplay and world design. So I'm eager for XIII and / or an XII sequel :love:
Well, there's the sequel spin off FFXII Revenant Wings thingy. It has the appearance of being more character driven, at least, so far.
i think its possible this is the best final fantasy ever. i didnt read everyones post considering theres a good amount of them but i cans ee not a lot of people like that it isnt driven by the characters.
i personally like that about the game. makes it more realistic really. a small almost uknown group working on takeing down the empire as the empire fights its own battles and grows stronger. i dont really like when the story revolves around you and your team makes it so kinda there fates are set on one path. when the story doesnt revolve around you its more surpriseing you never know what is going to happen next. you were just some kid (normally a kid) liveing in a town and decided you had enough and were going to do something about it.
but besides all that. the story itself is quite interesting. each character has a very real personality. Vaan and panelo act like kids there age would. i also think that balthier is more of the main character in the story then vaan. the story has more to do with him then vaan so far atleats im not done with the game yet.
but i cant decide for sure if this is the best game yet il let you know after i beat it.
Of course Balthier is the more of the main character... Anyone with the audacity to call themselves 'the leading man' while in the company of other people is automatically the main character.
Y'know, now that I think about it... One of the biggest things I like about FFXII is the complete lack of any of the stereo-typical Japanese hero archetypes. There's no one with a truly mysterious past who is motivated exclusively by the ghostly voices that haunt them (though admittedly Fran is kind've close to that), there's no whiney kid who's forced to fight against his will because he's inexplicably good at it in spite of having the self confidence of the oozy stuff you scrape off your boots (take that, Eva!), and there's none of those "fighting is so terrible that I'm going to be a pacifist and pout when people fight" types. Nor are there any characters that are pacifists but always wind up fighting in the end.
My god, it's the first Final Fantasy since FFVI to feature characters that are more like actual people! I love FFIX, but FFIX had a cast of characters with a specific role-the game was written like a well written play. They weren't based off of real people at all-they were all archetypal characters. And that's good too because it grounds you firmly into that story.
But it saddens me when I think that the last time I played a game that felt like its characters could be real people was Sly Cooper. In fact, when Vaan first meets up with Balthier and Fran, the way he acts really makes him a much more believeable person-coupled with the way that he is treated in turn, it makes those characters live.
Arguments about event driven and character driven stuff aside, FFXII is definately the sort of game that I look forward to playing. Like all of my other favorite games, it transports me to a different place in which I feel deeply involved. Since my basing on whether a game is good or not is based on immersion, FFXII is, by my perceptions, one of the finest games ever. It may be good enough to knock one of my other favorite games out of my personal top ten, and it easily knocks out one of my previously favorite top ten RPGs.
Now to get back to hunting the dread Vorpal Bunny...
Lynx: When I was playing through the storyline the first time, I was a lot less harsh than I am now because I just assumed certain things were going to happen. I don't mean specific events, but I thought that everything would be tied together and concluded by the end. That doesn't happen in FFXII.
I will be very interested to see what you think once you get finished.
Use the gambit Foe = Undead / Phoenix down on at least 2 of your characters and Foe party leader's target / drain on all 3 of your active characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by LazarCotoron
The dastardly bunny goes down fast with drain (you don't need to be very close to him) after you clear those pesky skeletons :D
I ran into the skeles, but there was no vile fluffy bunny bouncing around. It's turning into the Stillshrine of Miriam again-cover the zone three times top to bottom, click my heels together three times, turn around, and *kerpoofle* all my problems are more or less solved.
Be wery wery quiet! I'm hunting wabbits!
see but the thing is im not expecting much. i dont really see a love story happening which im kinda happy about because not everything in this world has to be a love story. theres a few things i hope they make clear at the end of the game but i have a feeling most of them will be cleared up in the story itself. with how good i think the game is now itd have to be an unbeliveably horrible ending for me to not like this game. also i think a lot of ends are tied up throughout the game but are never explained and you have to figure htem out for yourself but i could be wrong ill give you the verdict on that one after i beat the game whgich should be sometime this week depending on how much i have to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timerk
after i finished the game, it felt short. Like i was expecting more but i guess that's where the sequal comes in:rolleyes2 and i just got a DS:D but yeah... i didn't really expect that much out of it and it certainly didn't bore me to death like FFX did so it's a good game.
The ending is beautiful and has a lot of wonderful moments for each character. The final boss fight was interesting but overall, I still go with my original opinion. It is a very good game. Not my personal favorite but it's ranked high in my list of best FFs.
I can only hope that SE put's this level of detail into future titles and cut down on the angst...
by far the worse FF game in history, the battle system doesn't let you take in control because of the gambit system and the storyline is just pure lame and boring. The only people who like this game are new comer FF fans!.
My gambits consist of the following.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultima_Weapon
Any Ally HP <40% Curaga
Any Ally HP <20% Curaja
Foe Flying Telekensis(or whatever)
Foe Party Leader's target Attack
That is it and my party leader has no gambits. Everything else I choose. You don't even need to play with the gambits if you don't really want to. It give you as much control as you want to have.
I think the point is that the majority of encounters are so simple that you can have your gambits do them for you.
A couple more:Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=98220
I am actually using this complex gambit system right now to level the smurf up in the StillShrine. There is a rare enemy that summons gausts...forever. I am at level 70 and rising. I am at work right now and the system is on at home doing all the work for me right now :D GO GAMBITS!Quote:
Originally Posted by RenmiriA couple more:Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=98220
Too Bad gausts only give about 300 exp per kill making the process very long.
As to the other thing. My point is that gambits only take as much control away as you let it have. You could do the whole game without ever using a gambit if you wanted to.
Ooooo!Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
Is that when you touch the first switch without the Dawn Shard and it raises 3 skeletons ? I did that to chain 200 skeletons, then got bored :D
It also gives you good loot. 200 x 200 gil for bone fragments = Ka-ching!
Says the FFVII guy with a pic of Barret and the name 'Ultima_Weapon'. Yeah, I kinda' figured you'd hate this game. BTW, Sephiroth is a girl.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultima_Weapon
Nope. There is an FAQ on gamefaqs.com about this. It is something autoleveling guide. The monster that summons is a rare spawning monster which is part of the 80 rare monster hunts. Recommended level to do this is 35 at least according to the guide but I would say you have to come back to do the trick due to weapon and armor strength being a bit low the first time you go there in the game(the second time would be to do this awesome trick)Quote:
Originally Posted by RenmiriOoooo!Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
Is that when you touch the first switch without the Dawn Shard and it raises 3 skeletons ? I did that to chain 200 skeletons, then got bored :D
It also gives you good loot. 200 x 200 gil for bone fragments = Ka-ching!
i love this game and am in no way a newcomer in final fantasy i was about 6 years old when i played my first FF and am now 19. this game actually should appeal to the veterans of the final fantasy series. more towards the FFVI crowd. its got a lot of old age way of acting and scenary yet mixed with hightech ways of transportation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultima_Weapon
also as far as the storyline it seems to be for the more intelligent crowd no effence to anyone. but if i was young and playing this game i coudlnt imagine likeing the story. but since im older and know a good deal more as far as government and polotics which is what this game revolves aroundm, it makes the story incredibly interesting. its nice to see a change from a love story to a political story.
by the way you cna turn off the gambits if you want.
Well, as part of the "more intelligent" crowd I can tell you that the political intrigue in XII is like vanilla: way over used and done much more flavorful elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynx
When you get a bit older you will realize that this kind of political intrigue has been written hundreds, if not thousands of times and by much better authors such as Alexandre Dumas, Shakespeare and others. Heck even in real life and more recently we have better: Lawrence of Arabia's story is much better. Hopefully you will read them one day, since you like the theme. I myself don't dislike it, but I am a bit tired of it, because we're living it in Iraq and we are the Archadians, not the good guys. And our "Lord Vayne" isn't nearly as smart but just as insane as the XII one :(
:monster:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynx
I thought the story was rather simple, actually; the main objective is constant for most of the game, and all this political stuff is just window dressing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultima_Weapon
It's your opinion, but i have to disagree.
I dont use gambits but to the slightest. (meaning i have ONE gambit that says attack party leader's target...i put that on my other two active party members.) Anything done other than simple attacks... I DECIDE MYSELF!!!
Storyline was incredible to me... much more complex than just "save the world"... It followed the typical FF storyline though... find crystal.... it's extremely powerful....bad guys want it to rule the world.... BUT, to a better degree and intricateness. (is that a word?)
ANYWAYS! It is probably my second or third favorite... (FF6, and FF8 i loved.....)
But for the time being, i can't play anything else, or stop thinking bout playing it again... Got me more addicted then EverQuest did. And I think that is what i love so much, it feels alot like an MMORPG, while keeping its RPGness. (I KNOW that isn't a word.)
My 2 cents.
ok i know the objective in the game is always the same basically stop the empire stop vayne. and i know that when it comes to books and maybe some video games i have not yet played that polotics are done to death in them. but i mean as far as final fantasies. i mean tactics was quite political but anyway... i dont really like to read books i get bored easily even though i know theres a lot of reading in videogames its not the same to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by RenmiriWell, as part of the "more intelligent" crowd I can tell you that the political intrigue in XII is like vanilla: way over used and done much more flavorful elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynx
When you get a bit older you will realize that this kind of political intrigue has been written hundreds, if not thousands of times and by much better authors such as Alexandre Dumas, Shakespeare and others. Heck even in real life and more recently we have better: Lawrence of Arabia's story is much better. Hopefully you will read them one day, since you like the theme. I myself don't dislike it, but I am a bit tired of it, because we're living it in Iraq and we are the Archadians, not the good guys. And our "Lord Vayne" isn't nearly as smart but just as insane as the XII one :(
final fantasy XII is actually a more complexed pollitcal story then people may realize. the way vaan and everyone talks in the game makes it sound like a dalmasca vs archadia war. but thats not really ther case at that point in the game. its a rozarrian/resistance group vs archadian even though rozzarian empire isn't brought up much (thats from where i am at in the game im at ancient city giruvegan). theres a lot of confusion with ondore and whose side hes on at times. theres the betrayal in the archadians, two sons with different objectives, vossler and his side on the matters at hand. the senate and there pollitical stand on things. the judges and whats happening with them. im trying not to give any spoilers.
anyways if oyu look at every aspect of the pollitics in the game then its interesting and kinda complex. if you look at it in the sense that well all in all its about takeing down vayne then i can see why people woiuld think the story isnt complex or even that interesting.
by the way i in no way consider myself of high intelligents so dont think i was trying to put myself above anyone anyone whose been on fire as many times as me by there own actions is in no way smart :p i just dont think a younger crowd would like this game is all cause i dont think i would if i was a lot younger then i am now.
The main plot isn't as much about (SPOILER)stopping the empire as it is about restoring Ashe to the throne, even though there is a lot of overlap between those two goals. I think the distinction is that the 'bad guys' are not that really antagonistic, but rather misguided, even though you could make the case that they are the ones on the right side. Rozarria is really only a bit player, and its leader, Al Cid, is played mostly for comic relief. You never get the sense that Dalmasca is caught in the middle of two empires, so that drains some of the tension out of the games final scenes.
The weird part about the last moments of FFXII is that they are set up as personal battles, even though the plot, up to that point, has more of a big picture emphasis. I understand why they had to give evil a face, but I would have liked to have seen them work on setting that up more throughout the plot.
There are a couple of scenes which hint at political behind the scenes stuff ((SPOILER)such as the excellant scene where we find out Vayne has poised his father, and Gabranth is forced to kill Drace), but it never becomes the main focus of the storyline, in my opinion.
one thing ive come to notice with the game is that there really isnt a lot of dialogue which leads to very little character development. and i think the reason behind this is because most of the time everyone is talking about there past which is kinda a part of the story. so that could be the explanation for the little character development. my point in all this is that i dont think the game was made with intentions of ongoing character development throughout the story. i think the story is written to make you think of how there lives were and how they ended up where they are. so in a sense there is character development but you never witness it.
Actually, the REAL bug of the game is that the Japanese are pointing with their eyes and elbows at Korea. Vayne is just like Kim Jong Il... The scary son of Kim Il Sung. It's their fear of him and the rest of Korea, basically. In fact, I'm a little scared of them, too. (The one thing I like about Kim Jong Il is that he's rumored to be the biggest Daffy Duck fan ever to exist. hehe.) I'm guessing that maybe Square Enix decided their fear of the future is a good subject to mold around and stuff into a game. I just hope that if this is true, the Koreans don't catch on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timerk
Also, the humor of FFXII is VERY Japanese. And since Japanese humor is kind of like Irish humor, I get to laugh at it too. Bully for me.
Maybe... I do see some Nethicite / atomic energy similarities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic Shopkeeper
You sounded that way... Which for someone who does read books, and a lot of them, wasn't very pleasant to hear... ;) But you didn't mean it that way so no offense taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynx
This argument that FFXII only appeals to "the more intelligent crowd" has been making the rounds lately. I find it funny because even if you don't read books, if you read your history or at least watched some old or recent movies you can't really say it is a "new" plot.
The Roman Empire had a Senate AND an Emperor, which made for some pretty dicey political situations. The Emperor couldn't rule doing all HE wanted and the Senate was always worried that the Emperor would turn into a dictator / King. One of their most powerful emperors, Julius Caesar was getting tired of the Senate's meddling and also really didn't trust his older son Brutus so apparently he was planing to close the Senate and give the throne to his younger son Caesarius. The boy who was pretty partial to the queen of a conquered land and didn't care much for war (her name was Cleopatra). Brutus got wind of this and killed Caesar, his own father. Sounds familiar ? Sure you probably saw a rerun of an old movie about Caesar and Cleopatra but also (SPOILER)It describes Vayne, his dad, Larsa, Ashe and the Archadian Senate almost to the T, does it not ? The only twist that FFXII "removed" is that Ashe is not dating Vayne's father and Larsa isn't her kid, whereas in history Cleopatra was dating Caesar and Caesarius was her kid with him
What about twin brothers Louis and Pierre (?), one evil and bent on power gathering and the other very nice and heroic. Louis was so evil that he made sure Pierre spent years locked in a dungeon, as a traitor of the State. Pierre was forced to use an iron mask so no one knew Louis was his twin brother.
Sounds familiar ? Yes, it is a recent Leonardo di Caprio movie but it is also (SPOILER)Almost exactly the Basch / Noah story (a tiny detail inverted on XII: Gabranth/Noah who is the evil one is the twin who uses the "iron mask". But Bosch rotted in a dungeon ad was accused of treason while Noah was living the good life
I also see some "Lawrence of Arabia" parallels with (SPOILER)Larsa's plot: A "son of the Empire" gets together with the conquered people and tries to help them regain their power, fighting side by side with them
In summary, you guys better rephrase "FFXII only appeals to the more intelligent crowd" to " FFXII has a strong appeal to the young FF players who just got politically aware" cause to anyone else it is not new, quite the opposite, it is a very old story being told for millennia by many good writers and story tellers. ;)
All of Matsuno's games will appeal to those of us who enjoy history. Now, I can offer valid debate that people who enjoy, and consequently, learn about history are 'more intelligent' than those who don't, but I won't bother going there because it's all that much more funny when the rubes take us to hell and look around saying "OMG what have we done, this has never happened before..." YEAH it has. It happened dozens of times, over and over again, and you don't get it because you don't read your damn history.
As for the whole 'nuclear threat' / nethicite' paralell... Maybe you haven't played experienced much of the Japanese culture, but they sorta' make it a point to say "you bastards dropped two nukes on us and it wasn't nice at all!" at about every opportunity they get in their pop culture. Ever seen the old Bahamut summons that make mushroom clouds appear?
I wouldn't say it's for young people who just got "politically aware" I'm certain a good chunk of them are there but I would say it's more for the "mature crowd".
By "mature" though, I mean that the game revolves around real life themes. Resources, petty politics, WMD's, and countries caught in the middle of super powers. It's not about saving the world or rescuing girls hailing from an advanced civilization. The drama of FFXII is steeped in reality, well until Giruvegan, but mostly reality.
I agree that there are better political stories, FFT definetly has a wonderful and deep political story, if you can get past the shoddy translation.
I go with my feelings though that FFXII is truly a breath of fresh air for the series. Something dark and gritty, that broke alot of RPG conventions (mostly for the better).
Aye, Vegnagun on X-2 was pretty much the same paralel. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by LazarCotoron
And the japanese are correct, dropping two nukes on civilian targets wasn't "nice" at all. :( It might have been necessary, though I seriously question that, but in the end I'm just glad I don't get to make those kinds of decisions because I would never be able to live with myself if I did something remotely similar, justified or not!
And therein lies the "downer" of FFXII political plot to me: It reminds me way too much of stuff I'd rather forget for a few blissful moments of gameplay. Like the fact that our "Lord Vayne" is a lot loonier and a lot LESS intelligent than the one in the game and there is no Ashe, Larsa, Basch and other heros around trying to stop him :(
I don't think dropping nuclear devices on anything could ever, in any conceivable notion of the word, be considered 'nice', 'friendly', 'neighborly', or even 'just barely tolerating your presence'. I do wonder that if the worst case scenario of the time-that if we let them surrender without a show of unstoppable force-would've happened. If you're unfamilar, there was an idea running around that suggested every Japanese man would commit ritualistic suicide for failing his country. There's no way to say it would've-or would not have happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renmiri
As for leaving real life behind when you sit down to play a game... Sometimes, it can be hard. When I was growing up, they talked a lot about gamers disassociating reality with video games-that we were losing touch with the idea that people really die because you can die as many times as you want in a video game 'without consequence', and that you can kill the same guy over and over again 'without consequence'. And these statements and feelings were coming from people that didn't really care to discern between something like Doom and FFIX.
I don't deal with this at all anymore, since I no longer live in that house with people who have such uninformed views. But for a long time, I had disassociate reality from my games. You shouldn't need to disassociate it either way, but we live in a f*çked up world full of batsh!t psychos who think it's their right to do whatever to whoever because they have an opinion rather than attempt to talk it out.
I'm not a peace person, and it's because people don't like to solve the simple problems with words. Someone has some damn idea in their head that they're right and everyone who disagrees with them is not only wrong, but is actively out to hurt that person. FFXII really taps that. After all, that's what the struggle over the Nethicite is about, really. It's about two strong views vying for position over one another. And really, both of them are out not to prove that their view is right-hell, neither of them will even consider a diplomacy table. They're out to destroy the opposing view.
FFXII is the best game because its taken the things that are going on and put them into a format that makes them obvious to everyone. Being the best and being pretty though... Those are very different things, indeed.
You make some excellent points. I had not considered the "education" aspect of XII but it is there in spades and is very important. I'm still from last century where we learned those things in books :rolleyes2Quote:
Originally Posted by LazarCotoron
And the point about not even giving diplomacy a chance is sooo current! Why I can name you a current war that started just because the guy in power was in a hurry to be a "war Pres'unit" and look cool on military fatigues... He never bothered with diplomacy, making only token efforts to pretend he did.
:eep: And that saps the fun of my afternoon, remembering that dunce is still "Pres'unit" and has a red button with access to half of the nukes in our world within inches of his itchy fingers :eep:
Meh... My mom's generation lived 50 years of cold war, hopefully we will live 50 more of "dumb war"... :tongue:
sorry about the misunderstanding ill choose how i say things more carefully :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Renmiri
You sounded that way... Which for someone who does read books, and a lot of them, wasn't very pleasant to hear... ;) But you didn't mean it that way so no offense taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynx
This argument that FFXII only appeals to "the more intelligent crowd" has been making the rounds lately. I find it funny because even if you don't read books, if you read your history or at least watched some old or recent movies you can't really say it is a "new" plot.
as far as it saying its not really a new plot is true but i mean come on depending how you look at it every final fantasy plot has been told every game for that matter.
looking at FFXII in the sense thats its a war and a group of rebels are trying to get there queen her thrown back has been done.
now look at FFVIII a love story where besides fighting for there love theyre fighting to save the planet its been done in sci fi movies before possibly books but then again i dont read much.
same goes with the rest of the series breaking it down to a sense of only looking at whats on the surface everything has been done before.
but then with FFXII you throw in nethecite, espers, 6 characters with quite the back storys and you got a pretty original idea worth checking out.
same goes for FFVIII throw together GF's, sorcerers, elone and you have quite the original idea. and same goes for the rest of them lookingon the surface most arent that original but if you break the story down you can see how complex and original each final fantasy is.
Is Final Fantasy 12 the best Final Fantasy?
I'll say "no".
Don't get me wrong though, the game is easily my favorite. People here have already addressed what I don't like about the storyline. While I like the cast of characters, most of the plot is pretty stale. The story isn't really all that interesting until the final phases of the game.
To me, it seemed like:
Get stone--->Long ass dungeon--->Do something with stone acquired--->Special Event---->Repeat with variation on something relating to the stone.
I was hoping for more political intrigue or some sort of offbeat surprise but I was never rewarded with either of those things.
The cast of characters were great though. I liked everyone for the most part. I even liked Vaan; something I thought was impossible.
I'll say Final Fantasy 7 and 4 had better stories.
However, Final Fantasy 12 had one hell of a world. Environments have f'ing weather changes and there are lots of secret areas that can be treaded upon. Characters wear the weapons you equip them with and are even included in cutscenes at certain times. The cities have so much going for them as well.
Am I the only one who uses the game camera when I go inside of homes and facilities to look at all of the attention to detail in them?
One can tell that Square Enix put a lot of love into this game.
While I think this game may not be the best FF title ever, I certainly do think it is the best Final Fantasy on the PS2. (And yeah...I thought FFX was an okay game.)
I did and do. Yes, FFXII IS incredible and amazing for the depth of detail it goes into!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wenco
Little things, like at Paramina rift, if Fran is your party leader you can see she slides and loses footing on the ice due to her high heels (I almost expected her to land on her ass :D ) while Vaan and the others don't. Or how delicately and intricately designed the fiends are even during battle scenes. Same for each and every place yo go, including shops and walking around the streets. Or how you can get sun glare in your "camera". Or the candle light reflecting on the metal decorations at the Stillshrine of Mirian.
FFXII world design rocks my socks! :D
Sacrilege! Yevon forgive you my child, Ye know not of what you speak ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wenco
I personally think this one isn't so great. the story line was lacking. It didn't really progress well, not that much intrigue. Pretty much what I expected to happen happened. Never really got into the story until the end.
No waterga? No earth? A lot of things are weak against both but didn't have good enough magics to use against the weaknesses. Seems like the main focus was the battle system and that was it.
loved the gameplay however. just need a little more work on story and other loose ends and all would be good.
QFTQuote:
Originally Posted by gdguy230
I liked the graphics nd world design too, but music, story and character are way too weak!