I heard from someone, that FFXII unlike many others doesn't have a love story. I always kind of liked a little drama. Is this true, if so, does the main plot make up for it?
NO SPOILERS
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I heard from someone, that FFXII unlike many others doesn't have a love story. I always kind of liked a little drama. Is this true, if so, does the main plot make up for it?
NO SPOILERS
Actually, not really, and the main plot is predictable, and not at all surprising or interesting. Every single time, I'd call out the events with near pinpoint accuracy.
It's not a bad game, though. Lack of love is not really all that new; FFI, II, III, and V don't have the "traditional" love stories as the others do; however, in IIIj, Sara falls for all four of the Onion Kids and FFV has Bartz/Faris and Bartz/Lenna, if you looked at it in a certain way.
FFXII doesn't lack any drama, that's for sure. Drama != Love.
The only two that really focus on love are VIII and X anyway. Some others have nicely developed fluff, but it's nothing huge. Zidane and Garnet have a nice love thing going, but it's not the main focus of things...But I'll give IX a "maybe" to keep everybody from chewing me out.
So there's really not a love story, but there's still plenty of drama to be swept up in I guess. And I also found the plot to be surprisingly straightforward.
Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have a straightforward plot than a confusing, convoluted storyline that requires me to use a book just to figure out what's going on.
It's not just you. Metal Gear Solid 2 is my favorite of the SolidQuote:
Originally Posted by Zeromus_X
trilogyEdit: series, not a trilogy anymore, you think anybody should listen to my opinion on plots?
What can I say, I like needlessly convoluted :cry:
Yeah, because references to other works of writing and a plot that requires a little bit more than common logic and higher thinking skills is just SO unnecessary.
MGS2 was decent until the last 30 minutes, when it became a drug trip.
The plot is definitely one of my gripes about FF12. It's really bad at first, but after 20 hours or so it starts to pick up a bit. It's better now, but still not great.
Ashe was in love with her husband and she does keep seeing him all over the place, but that's about as close as it gets to a love story.
There is love in the love that a knight has for his queen, or the love that queen has for her country -- I really think that is the big relationship in the game. There are also some psuedo-couples, but at the point I am at, nothing really for certain.
FFXII's story is great; I certainly did not miss the presence of a sappy romantic sub-plot or the obligatory accompanying J-pop song. But don't worry, Nomura and company are coming back for FFXIII, and they can be relied upon to serve up yet another helping of the same angsty, meandering, teen-targeted dreck you've so come to enjoy.
You don't have to have a sappy romantic sub-plot to have a more complicated, better developed story. :p That's just how many of the FFs have done it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryűkishi
I don't think saying that the plot seems needlessly complicated automatically translates to "I'm too dumb/have too short of an attention span to understand the plot". There are plenty of games/books/movies with complicated plots that are done well, and plenty with complicated plots that are done poorly.
It all depends on how you would define "convulated" if you were hoping for something like Tactics, Xenogears, or Vagrant Story... all I have to say is that you've come to the wrong series. If you really think about it, most of the FF's have pretty simple stories. The few that have complex plots with weird "story altering" plot twists are pretty bad in my opinion. FFV's multiple world plot was weird and never really explained, but then again FFV's plot wasn't all that great to begin with (though it's definetly one of the better games)
If you're looking at FFVII-FFX for complex well written plots, I feel you've come to the wrong place. Each game has a horrible plot twist that tends to kill the game for me.
FFVII- Cloud's past after all the hype was a major let down and since I started with the earlier games, I can safely say I wasn't exactly brought to tears when Aerith died.
FFVIII- time travel was poorly explained as well the whole "we all grew up together" twist was pretty stupid
FFIX- Was going really well until Zidane's past was explained... I usually don't care when a game rips off another games plot but I can't forgive a game for doing it within the SAME GAME! Zidane only wishes he was as cool as Vivi.
FFX- I'm dead but I'm also a dream? WTF!Now you're just being pretentious...
Now with exception of FFVII and FFX I can safely say I like most of these games but come on people. Sometimes it's better to have a well written story with characters that are actually like real people. So FFXII doesn't have some weird convulated plot about Vaan being an alien and the half brother to Princess Ashe who is the reincarnation of a goddess who has been brought back to reunite with her immortal lover Balthier. And the empire isn't using the souls of the dead to generate a weapon capable of drawing Ivalice into the higher plane dimension that it originally was in before the original emperor stole the power of the Demon god Ulithitar and created this world even though the original emperor is actually a 13 year old Japanese kid in a coma which makes everything I've written above about the plot to be irrevelant.
I feel FFXII has a good storyline, there is no real love story, but the relations the characters have with each other is far more interesting. No one really trusts each other, everyone has something from their past they try to keep hidden, and though they all don't really get along at first. They each begin to slowly find their reason to be there. That is what the story is about on the character level. It's not earth shattering, but it works in a very good way.
The lack of LOVE is perfect. :bigsmile:
I'm not looking for more complex, necessarily. The story was simply very poorly developed for the first 20+ hours of the game. It has been getting better, though.
It is a HATE story. :bigsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Christmas
The first 20 hours were something of a bore for me also, but it does progress and becomes quite an enjoyable trip. You know that feeling when you actually start caring about the book you are reading or the movie your are viewing? That happens around this point in time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
At least that was how it was with me.
As for the love story, I don't believe it would have fit the storyline, seeing as it is steeped in politics and mystery rather than the focus being on the introspective storytelling of the characters' emotional makeup and relations.
I like the gameplay and doing all the sidequests was fun, but without good developed characters, which this game does not have, with the exception of Balthier, it's not that great. To me, the story didn't go anywhere and I'm at the end of the game right before going to (SPOILER)Bahamut.
When you say that the story starts getting interesting around the 20 hour mark, where exactly in the story is that? I've clocked about 50 hours and I don't feel engaged in the story at all yet (but I love the game anyway), and I just got to Mt. Bur-Omisace (I think I am going through it slowly, so play time as an indication of a certain part of the story is not necessarily useful).
I'd say the story starts picking up after, say, Raithwall. It picks up a little more after Mt. Bur-Omisace. But yeah, it's still not great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexy
I'm not looking for a huge twist or insanely complex, but this game is a huge amount of filler. Things start off well, then you run 50 hours of errands, and then things end well. It suffers from Kingdom Hearts II syndrome where very few things of importance are sprinkled in the center. There's a lot of talking but nothing actually happens. It wasn't until I was about 35 hours in my first time that I realized not very much had occured.
When I beat it and reflected upon the whole game, all I could think was that the fluid translation had completely hidden the fact that the plot and characters didn't go very far.
Now don't get me wrong, I do like the plot. Really, it probly doesn't seem like it, but I do. It's different and totally Matsuno, and he's about nations and not characters so whatever. The characters are likable, and I wish I got to see more of them, but I'm not gonna get it and I suck it up. But that doesn't change the fact this stuff feels like it's over a decade old. In fact, I think FFVI had better things going for it and it really is a decade old.
Shadow Hearts: Covenant is also about going from point to point with a group that assembles for little reason and barely speaks with one another, it also has a very shallow overall story when analyzed from afar, and it still managed to pull off a plot I consider to be great. It's not like I have unrealistic expectations from the story simply because the name Final Fantasy is on the box. It doesn't take that much to please me, and I think things turned out nicely, but I also had a part of me that was left rather unsatisfied by the whole thing. That's just how I feel, folks.
FFXII has memorable moments in it and I enjoy it, but it's nothing grand. FFXIII probably will go back to the way VII,VIII, and X is, and also include a huge love story, I don't know... I actually hope so, because I think they have better stories. But since Nomura and Toriyama are attached to them, many people are going to hate it before they play it anyway.
(SPOILER)I don't see how each has their reason to be there. 5 of the 6 characters could not even exist and it would make little difference whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Vaan openly admits he's "Just along for the ride," and Balthier eventually says "I'm only here to see the way the story plays out..."
Well, Penelo is there because Vaan is (and does appromixately 0% important activity), and Fran is there because Balthier is. Basch is there because he feels as a knight he's honor-bound to his Queen. This means that 5 of the 6 characters are along for the journey because they were bored and had nothing better to do with their time. Eventually, Balthier becomes committed because of Dr. Cid's involvement, but that's not until later in the game, and that still leaves the other four, not to mention the supposed main character Vaan who is nothing but extra baggage that Ashe allows to be dragged around after her.
I agree with everything LunarWeaver just said; that perfectly expressed my sentiments. Although I hope FFXIII isn't like VIII or X.
Well that all sums it up I suppose. :confused:
I hate love story because it's sad. I like a happy story like FFXII. Love story made me sick.
Lunar (SPOILER)Basch feel responsible for Dalmascan defeat and decided to help Ashe, remove him from the bored party. :D
FFX's plot twist was great I thought. I love that Tidus hides the fact that he's gonna die until the end. All the PS FFs were very satisfying for me
I am at the point right before you head for the final battles, and I don't even feel like finishing the game at this point. I will do other stuff like hunts and find espers, and eventually I will beat the last boss, but there isn't really any urgency to anything (storyline wise).
Since most 'love' love stories are extremely horrible to me I am very glad that a love story was not included. (FFX offered for the first time the innovation of me being able to leave the room for the overtly sappy parts.)
And yes, I most certainly noticed that quite a few characters are just along for the ride, and I can't say I'm pleased as to the implications on the story.
I think your generalizing the whole situation too much LunarWeaver. When I really look at the characters personalities. The fact just comes down that they are all really just normal people and what can really be said about normal people when placed on the greater backdrop of the world crisis.
Vaan and Penelo are just two people who got drawn into the whole mess and decide to stick around to see how it will finish. But it could also be looked as two people who dreamed of helping Dalmasca finally having a real opportunity to make a difference. Sure they can't do much since their basically children compared to everyone else but at least they are trying to do more than "play" Robin Hood or sucking up to the Imperials in order to calm their anger caused by said robin hood wanna-be's. It's their chance to finally do something and hey, they get to see the world while their at it. Bonus!:cool:
Ashe is princess mourning the death of her husband and father and trying to revive her fallen kingdom. The real conflict with her is (SPOILER)her choice between doing what is right for her people and what she wants to do. She wants to punish Archades with the Nethicite but she realizes that her own kingdom may be once again be drawn into the conflict as well as the obvious fact that punishing Archades would not really help her kingdom.
Basch wishes to correct the mistake his failure has caused, I don't see how that's "just along for the ride"
Balthier has his own past but mainly joined for the money (Is it wrong for a rogue to join a group only for the money?) (SPOILER)Though I expect he really joined to watch Lady Ashe and see if Nethicite would corrupt her like his father. Spectavely speaking, perhaps his true intention is to better understand his father who abandoned everything to know the secrets of Nethicite.
Your correct about Fran though, but that doesn't mean every character has to have a real personal reason to be there. Besides, we should be thankful we have a Viera helping out. Not like the entire race really gives a damn about Ivalice.;) I throw her into the FF tradition (Since FFVI and only skipped in FFVIII unless you count Zell...) of "token non-human". Sadly, all characters that fall into this tradition have never had a really good reason for helping out let alone a well developed personality.:cry:
Ultimately, with the exceptions of Ashe, Balthier, and perhaps Basch, everyone else is basically normal people. They may not have real trauma and issues to fight throughout the story cause their is nothing there yet. Fran has her past secrets but she seems really content with her decision and thus storywise there is no point to really dwell on it and evaluate the reasoning behind it. Mostly cause we can see the logic of why she chose that path and that's just it. Vaan, Penelo, Fran, and Basch basically come on the stage and say "Here I am, this is what I'm all about. You can either accept it or not."
Vaan matures quite a bit from what I've seen. It's not spelled out for you, but it's only something you begin to slowly notice. It's because that's how it is in real life. People change slowly and gradually. It's why we wake up one day and realize we've changed after all these years. We just never really notice I guess.
If you really think about it. Not counting FFI-III and FFVIII. All the FF's are filled with people who are only involved because they got caught up in the "grand struggle" that unfolds during the story. We could easily evalute that all but the few I've mentioned, has a few people who had no real business being with your party for longer than they had to be.
I'm pretty glad that there aren't a million really sappy cutscenes. I enjoy the love story aspect of past games, but this one is more...I don't know, a little more epic-movie-like, and I'm enjoying it.
there's really not much of a plot... i'm not sure if the bad guy is even bad, but it's a great game. not sure where to place it in the rankings of all final fantasies... i feel like it didn't live up to it's hype and reviews.
Ah, Remove Vaan too!In Jahara, Vaan said he joined Ashe because he want to get himself out of his past, he thought, he could do that by joining Ashe. Since Vaan have that, can we remove Penelo too?