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I am christian...nostly and I notice how everyone talks so horribly about the devil and how all bad things are his doing. That has fueled my compassion for the devil kinda. He was an angel that made a bad decision and now is blamed for all things bad. What if he asked for forgiveness would he get it. Doesn't he deserve a chance.
The question is do you pity the devil and do you think I'm a satanist?
Not really since he will just backstab you if you help him. :(
The best way is to let him do and be what he want.
I cannot pity what does not exist, but no, you are not a satanist, either in the movie/stereotype or the Laveyan sense of the word.Quote:
Originally Posted by outlaw starwind
However, your compassion for what is supposed to be the emblem of all evil is a touching trait, one which more christians ought to share.
Actually if you think about it Satan's fall is intentional. If you believe that angels do not have free will, then God must of willed it for him to rebel. Thus making the existence of Satan within God's will. Sure you can pity him, but he was created (assuming you believe the aforementioned stuff) to entice humans to do evil. He is rightfully blamed for causing evil since that is his role. He is God's adversary, in the most literal sense. Satan means adversary.
This is all assuming that you are Christian or believe in some Christian doctrine. Also a Satanist are typically people who worships Satan, in whatever regard. Pitying him is different from worshiping him.
The way I understand it, if the devil and the demons (i.e. the fallen angels) were to repent, God would forgive them; however, they are so full of pride and passion that it is impossible for them to repent, so it will never happen. During an exorcism, the priest can get the demon to say just about anything, but no matter how hard he tries he can never get him to say, "Forgive me" or "Have mercy on me."
I can't find a way of responding to the first part of your question that doesn't treat it as nonsense. Satan is one of the least believable parts of Christian myth, by far. I don't pity the devil any more than I pity the tooth fairy. In an entirely metaphorical sense, i.e. "Is it wrong to pity a PERSON who does something bad", I'd say not necessarily. Bad people do tend to suffer, and it's a natural reaction to pity such people. But pity shouldn't override the knowledge that they really are bad people and may be deserving of punishment and may actually deserve any suffering that comes their way.Quote:
Originally Posted by outlaw starwind
So far as "am I a Satanist", I don't think you can accidentally become a member of a religion without noticing.
Saying that a made-up deity has caused all the bad things in the world is an insult to all the people that have died under the hand of truly bad individuals. It absolves our actions.
Mercy is a Christian attribute. Perhaps you just adhere to the old saw, "Love the sinner, hate the sin" and if there was more of a sinner than Satan, the south has yet to find him xD
Besides, satanists do self worship. They tend to be amused by people who think they worship satan, it seems.
Do you know what a Satanist is?
That's very honorable of you. No, I don't think you're a satanist.Quote:
Originally Posted by outlaw starwind
Satanists dont worship satan, in a sense you could say they worship themselves. Read "Theory-Practice"Quote:
Originally Posted by rubah
So no, you are not a satanist. And i dont pity lucifer. As Darth Anarcus said, satan and his demons are prideful. Sure, god would grant them forgiveness if they asked for it, but they dont. So if he was stupid enough to get his ass thrown out of heaven and then be too proud to even as his creator for forgiveness, i'm not going to pity him.
And then dont say "i'm a christian" and then turn around and wonder if you're a satanist. You dont seem to be grounded in your faith very well.
A lot of people have died in the hands of plain and ordinary people too. As Martin Luther King said once, sometimes all it takes for evil to triumph is the fact that good people stay silent in the face of evil they see being done. Google MLK or Hannah Arendt and "the banality of Evil" to see more about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaneko
Pride, sloth and greed can prevent us from a lot of good stuff and make us "evil", just like it did with the mythical Devil. For example: Arendt's research subject, the Nazi guy who made sure the trains loaded with people sent to die arrived at Auschwitz efficiently and on time.
The guy was a "nice and normal" guy that wasn't full of hate or deluded with the Nazi ideals. He was married, had even tried once or twice to help refugees... But he was too lazy to think about WHAT was he expediting and making faster. He was too greedy and devoted on keeping his top post, which made him proud and satisfied to dwell on the bad consequences of what he was doing. Also too much of a coward to do something against it even if he did think about it and regretted it.
I think that the devil myth is referring to integral parts of the human spirit - pride, sloth, greed... - and cautioning us from being slaves to it. In a sense we all have Satan inside of us as we all have God within us. You just have to decide which master you serve, and be strong enough to live by your choices and convictions. ;)
Yes.
You're not a satanist, its just that you dont sound very sure of your faith. I dont pity the devil. As said, he deliberatly got kicked out of heaven because he tried to overthrow God.
I odn't have pitty of the devil coz I'm atheist so for me God and the Devil does not exist!
If he isn't behind things all bad then who is? I pity him for the things he still does presuming he has enough influence on me to even exist
bad things exist coz some humans are bad!
Here's a checklist.
Do you worship (put your heart and love and soul) Satan: Yes or No.
If you checked no, then you are not a satanist. :)
How about "the persons who do those bad things"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart's Friend Milhouse
DR. SATAN!
Okay. I'm confident in my faith but there are times when I see many people at my church not thinking as I do and acting as though they are higher than a sinner. Being 15 is confusing
Your not a Satanist.
In reply to that question, I agree with Mirage.Quote:
If he isn't behind things all bad then who is?
But if you think that Satan is responsible for everything bad, and if you think that God created Satan, does that not mean that God is indirectly responsible for everything bad.
You could blame God like you would probably blame Frankensein for creating the monster.
In fact, I would blame God even more, since he created Satan, knowing full-well that Satan would be responsible for human evilness. - Leading to suffering.
Yes god is the blame for everything but not directly in my mind. He created us and gave us free will that freewill is what allows us to do bad we are either tempted to do what is right or wrong.
If he asked for forgiveness he would be forgived. He is evil, and hates God with a passion. Get over it. NOT AN ACCIDENT.
No you're not a Satanist.
However, he knew exactly what would happen if he gave us free will, seeing as he is omniscient.Quote:
Originally Posted by outlaw starwind
Why would I pity a man who purposely called me names behind my back!? :mad2:
As a collective whole the south is probably worse than satan.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubah
'The Devil' doesn't usually make people do things. All he can really do is tempt you, it's still your decision to do it.
You're not a satanist, don't worry about it to much. Though I hardly think 'a mutiny to overthrow God' is simply a 'bad decision'.
I'm from the south )not country) God ggave us free will so he wouldn't allow someone like the devil into heaven. Having remorse over what you've done is all you need. If you can ask for forgiveness then you are allowed into heaven.
He already let Satan into Heaven, duh. Saint Lucifer be his name.
I'm actually getting more confused about what this topic is about with every post you make.
EDIT: NickelCobaltTitaniumNeon's post is almost worth changing my sig for. :bigsmile:
Well,
Satan does not exist as in molecules and atoms (although these are just philosophical/scientific devices anyhow) but Satan is the universal form of disobedience. All humans can and will relate to this myth i.e. it is a credible as a scientific experiment and it does have meaning - moreso that the former.
I will now proceed. If you take the side of Satan then you are choosing Narcissus and also Prometheus.
Both the mortal and Titan were fine examples of creation, however, they were vain and sneaky, respectively. It goes against ethics to be either, and hence, both entities were punished.
In the judeo-christian tradition, the punishment was grievously dealt. Satan is permanently separated from God. This must be agonising. Taking pity on Satan takes pleasure in refutation. We all feel this at times. Satan must confront his separation from paradise (this also does not exist in reality but is a place in our mind). This universe is half reality, half mind. Before the universe at present was created, whether we explain it with God = 7 days (relevant) or from singularity to now = 4 bya (less relevant to every day life) - big numbers are like monsters, they howl in our minds and have little reference. This separation happened prior to created order; hence, Satan has no place before God and as humans we should accept that this is God's matter.
Pity is much easier than judgement as it stimulates the liver reflex - our reptilian brains are stronger than the cerebellum Vs. cerebral cortex - and this is why Zeus extracted the liver of Prometheus daily. That self consuming feeling derived out of pity comes from deep within ourselves - mythology is the science of the reptilian, non-conscious brain (for some reason people need to have this explained to them these days, they just can't accept the power of stories).
Judgement, and I mean real judgement (not prejudice - this is another story) comes from the heart ... our most precious mind. The ancients believed that thoughts and decisions came from the heart. The brain was of little relevance ... a bit like the 4 billion years or whatever we have calculated the age of the universe to be. It is of little relevance. What is important is that you use your heart rather than your liver and this is the way of God.
Notes: space occupies most of the universe yet it has no physical property … does this mean it is a place of mind also? Indeed. The same can be said of myths, they resound clearly of nature yet resemble little of this world.
Thank you for your Religion/mythology related question.
just to answer the, "would satan be forgiven if he asked for forgiveness" question.
no. In christianity, the basis for forgiveness is Christ's death. Christ's sacrifice was relevent because, since Adam, the human, brought sin into the world by producing the first sin. Christ provided redemption from it by becoming human and dying without any sin. That's the short version obviously. Since satan is not a human, Christ's death did nothing to absolve his sins in any way. I suppose if Christ were to become an angel, he could die for the angels, but that's between god and the angels.
On kind of a side note, Anne Rice's Memnoch the Devil is kind of a neat take on the Devil theme, and is probably(assuming the devil's existence) far closer to the reality than what is generally assumed about the devil, even(or especially) by biblical accounts.
Assuming once again that god and the devil exist, I find it humorous that you pity the devil while he's in heaven before god telling god what a worthless loser and sinner you are(according to the bible).
I've often thought about this. If humans can turn back from their evil ways, repent and get back in God's favour again, surely the devil can apologise for all the nasty things he's done, suck up to the Almighty a bit and avoid his impending date with the eternal abyss.Quote:
Originally Posted by outlaw starwind
Nah, you're not a Satanist. You're just far too forgiving.
Satan can't apologise because he doesn't feel sorry for what he's done. It's as simple as that.
It's hard to make sense of all the terrible things in the world... Sometimes we use metaphors to help us along the way - in the end the one honest truth I can offer is that without any bad there is no good and the origin is hardly as important as the effect.