I know there's many other ways of having a battle system that you may well think are better, but of the two options presented above which do you enjoy the most? What do you like about it?
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I know there's many other ways of having a battle system that you may well think are better, but of the two options presented above which do you enjoy the most? What do you like about it?
I like both, honestly, since they offer different things. I've seen turn-based utilized in a variety of interesting ways, tbh, but I do really appreciate the originality of ATB.
Since there is no "both" or "neither" option, I'll go with turn-based simply due to its versatility.
Turn based!
I used to count myself among the ATB fans, but playing them now with a critical eye I really dislike it. The ATB is like that ladder in MGS3. You know the one. It's just a period of 'dead' time that exists with no specific purpose. I like the ladder sequence, but I wouldn't like it if I had to climb it after killing every enemy. That's what the ATB feels like to me.
That's because you're using FFIX as your point of referencje :p
FFIV, X-2, and XII is where ATB shines, imo, as you really have to think how to manage these turns in real time. Taking away the charge times from V onwards really killed it, IMO, but then X-2 brought them back with a vengeance and ATB got exciting again. And then FFXII did something really fresh and new with it which was great.
XIII had a neat idea (actions costing only part of the gauge? great, fun idea in theory), but the execution really left a lot to be desired.
Going off on a tangent, but as someone who used to speedrum MGS3 the ladder is both a blessing and a curse. You were screwed in that no matter what you did, you couldn't cut that corner. But you could put the controller down, use your toe (yes I did this) to climb and rest your hands for a bit. And the song. The song!
I like ATB, makes it so I can't sit and think and calculate my moves. I gotta make a move or oh no!
I did put turn-based down, primarily because I sometimes take forever agonising over a decision. I will say though that ATB with wait mode is a very good compromise, and I really enjoyed FFX-2's combat system.
What did you all like about X-2's ATB?
Not only did it reintroduce charge times, it also added cool-downs, in a way - depending on the last action executed, the bar could be extended or shortened, which further added to strategy. Also, you could have the girls attack all at once to chain attacks and increase damage, so that was cool. Made the whole thing way more dynamic.
I will say X-2 pulled it off very well. If more ATBs were like that I may reconsider my vote :)
Honestly, it's just the PSX era where ATB is noticeably stale. It was fine at the time, since we were all too busy being in awe of the 3D battles, but as I replayed them recently, the shift from sprites to models really made the battles slow. Thankfully, X-2 fixed that
I agree with this. I hate to mention that one mobile game you don't like again, but that also uses ATB and I've never found the downtime slow, indeed I don't get downtime unless everyone is asleep or dead and it's usually frantic as all hell. I am wondering if that's because there are five characters to juggle as opposed to the typical three of the PSX era.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
I'm playing FFIV now and I've never played with five characters before and it has certainly made battles more complex. I definitely needed Wait mode for that though, can you imagine playing active on that? Sheesh.
With FFX-2, I really liked the varying bar length and the charge times. It also made caster types more viable by not having them have to sit through both a green and purple bar per cast of fire. Instead, they can just spam magic moves and rely on the charge bar.
It did make rushing to get Black Magic Lvl. 3 and especially White Magic Lvl. 3 all the more important, though. I'm not waiting an age to pop off an emergency curaga.
FFXII also did well with the ATB. It made items way more viable (though FFX-2 gave items the alchemist, one of the best dresspheres in the game) by giving them an instant use. I liked how different weapon types had different charges, and while my favourite weapon type (the gun) had the slowest charge, I did appreciate the balancing mechanic.
The only thing I didn't like was the effect capacity which made most high-tier spells pretty useless, but that's a mechanical constraint of the PS2 which TZA won't have so I'm super happy.
Turn-based is ATB's daddy so of course.
I enjoy the ATB as a programmer of not so great JRPG's, as it allows me to think of neat spells and things that give speed some use besides they get to go first.
However the turn based wait and take your time has merit too for those who are playing for the story more then the battles.
I actually think that Turn-Based combat has aged quite poorly. I just recently played a few hours of FF1, and I can honestly say I strongly prefer ATB combat.
And on the topic of MGS3: I actually just finished the game for the first time in October. That ladder scene is honestly one of the coolest moments I've ever experienced in gaming. So smurfing awesome.
ATB = Turn-based. You are fundamentally still taking turns, just with a time meter.
I prefer ATB to FF1's system, because that's just... not a great system. But I'll take X over pretty much any ATB. Maybe even X-2...Quote:
Originally Posted by Scruffington
And yes, the ladder part in MGS3 is freaking amazing.
I did like X's system. I wish I could re-create the swapping option in my little projects.
SMT and Bravely Default show that turn-based can be used in a very interesting way. Honestly, even bare-bones turn-based works in stuff like Dragon Quest, but that's mostly because it's really fast and there's stuff around it that makes it really exciting.
Xenogears has the best turn-based combat IMO.
ATB. X-2 is a great example of it done very well, and anyone who disagrees can fight me.
Gladly. You stand over there, I'll stand over here, when my egg timer hits 0 come and hit meQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Carnelian
Shots fired :pQuote:
Originally Posted by FoxGladly. You stand over there, I'll stand over here, when my egg timer hits 0 come and hit meQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Carnelian
I'd take that threat seriously if I were you, this guy has previous. Just look at his signature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Carnelian
Versus I'll stand here and wait for you to hit me, then you stand completely still while waiting for me to hit you, until one of us falls over.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxGladly. You stand over there, I'll stand over here, when my egg timer hits 0 come and hit meQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Carnelian
ATB set to the fastest setting is the way to go.
Ah, nothing like having enemy AI get extra hits on you because it takes a few seconds to navigate the menus! That's the best. Really feels tactical :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by theundeadhero
X is the best way to do turn based. They pretty much copied it for Cyber Sleuth. I really like the press turn system of some MegaTen games. And I turn my ATB games on Wait. I like to look through my skills and see what's best.
ATB set to the fastest setting on games with charge times is really fun (like in FFIV), frustrating on games without it (FFVII and VIII), and pretty much a must if you don't want to go insane in some others (FFIX)
Though even fastest on FFIX is glacially slow. The fastest ATB combat in FFIX is still like the Austin Powers henchman versus the steamroller.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
In my play of FFIV, the ATB is currently at the second-fastest setting, mainly because the interface only shows a few menu choices and I have to scroll down to commands I can't actually see yet. Many a time I've accidentally entered into the items menu when I wanted the menu above it.
It's always at the fastest in FFX-2, though.
When ATB is done well, it sings. I am Setsuna reminded me how awesome ATB 2.0 (Chrono Trigger's version) really is. I love both, and I prefer them over action gameplay, but ATB was something I grew up with, so I'm partial to it.
Turn based! I need tons of time to plan and strategize with my advisors and commanders before the next move! Each turn is as impt as choosing the right underwear for the right toilet. :bigsmile: