So they're having an Assassin's Creed Crossover

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Originally Posted by Depression Moon

This is free. What y'all are complaining about?

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You have to pay for the game, though. The game itself was incredibly underwhelming and disappointing, and they could have put all of these extra development resources/time into the actual game instead of the tons of spin-offs, sidegames, films, anime, and festivals they have so far. I would rather trade all of that other nonsense for a better Final Fantasy XV in a heartbeat.

I also have no problem paying for good content. The actual game itself wasn't particularly good content, and the actual DLC episodes (which they charge money for) haven't been great either.

You people do realize that XIII-2 had a crossover thing with Mass Effect and that MGS4 already did the Assassin's Creed thing awhile back right? Oh how we forget the past and doom ourselves to repeat history and such nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

You people do realize that XIII-2 had a crossover thing with Mass Effect and that MGS4 already did the Assassin's Creed thing awhile back right? Oh how we forget the past and doom ourselves to repeat history and such nonsense.

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The difference is, the only "crossover" those games had was in the form of costumes. Those take hardly any resources or development time.

Meanwhile these festivals seem to have a lot more effort put into them. I would rather that effort be put into actually improving the core game, or making the DLC episodes better.

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Originally Posted by Scruffington

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

You people do realize that XIII-2 had a crossover thing with Mass Effect and that MGS4 already did the Assassin's Creed thing awhile back right? Oh how we forget the past and doom ourselves to repeat history and such nonsense.

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The difference is, the only "crossover" those games had was in the form of costumes. Those take hardly any resources or development time.

Meanwhile these festivals seem to have a lot more effort put into them. I would rather that effort be put into actually improving the core game, or making the DLC episodes better.

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Well technically they are working on those elements as well, since Tabata has stated that they are foregoing the ideas of sequels to better clean up the later chapters and add more content expanding characters and story elements. Considering the options in that survey they did a few months back, I feel the team has a decent grasp about which story elements that could be better.

MMOs do stuff like this the whole time, there is no rule that says other games can't either. Frankly, those unhappy with XV should probably do for this game what I do concerning XIII, just ignore it's existence, because it's very unlikely the team will ever fix the game to the high standards fans placed upon it. Even if they did, for those of us who remember the original, the game is pretty much tarnished anyway, and will always be the game that "patched in the good stuff later". So it seems silly to me to feel that any news regarding the game will somehow work as a silver bullet to fix all of the games problems that some have with it.

For people not happy with the direction of XV, it's better to save your energy and focus on the horizon, like hoping XVI will be an improvement, or at least the KHIII and VII Remake don't suck.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Well technically they are working on those elements as well, since Tabata has stated that they are foregoing the ideas of sequels to better clean up the later chapters and add more content expanding characters and story elements. Considering the options in that survey they did a few months back, I feel the team has a decent grasp about which story elements that could be better.

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Why couldn't they have just delayed the game another year? Why couldn't they have just scrapped all of these spinoffs, the anime, the movie, and focus on making the game as good as it could possibly be at launch?

I got burned by the experience I had at launch. Them updating the game after the fact is nice, but it doesn't do anything for me.

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MMOs do stuff like this the whole time, there is no rule that says other games can't either.

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Final Fantasy XV is not an MMO. I would rather Square Enix focus their time on their singleplayer content and actual story instead of time exclusive "festivals". Seems like SE has lost sight of what the franchise was built upon in the first place.

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it's very unlikely the team will ever fix the game to the high standards fans placed upon it.

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Expecting a Final Fantasy game to have fantasy elements, good characterization, a complete story, and depth in combat might be high standards. But they're also standards that the series exceeded and thrived at after 30 years of success. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect those things from an FF title, and FFXV failed to deliver on all of them.

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Even if they did, for those of us who remember the original, the game is pretty much tarnished anyway, and will always be the game that "patched in the good stuff later". So it seems silly to me to feel that any news regarding the game will somehow work as a silver bullet to fix all of the games problems that some have with it.

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I agree 100% on this. The problem I have with FFXV is...you can take everything else away. Take away the festivals, take away the anime, the film, the mobile edition, and all you're left with is a mediocre Final Fantasy.

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For people not happy with the direction of XV, it's better to save your energy and focus on the horizon, like hoping XVI will be an improvement, or at least the KHIII and VII Remake don't suck.

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I would have this attitude, but unfortunately Tabata's team keeps sucking away Square Enix's resources to add useless updates to FFXV (like the multiplayer update).

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

You people do realize that XIII-2 had a crossover thing with Mass Effect and that MGS4 already did the Assassin's Creed thing awhile back right? Oh how we forget the past and doom ourselves to repeat history and such nonsense.

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For sure, I absolutely dressed Noel in the Assassin's Creed outfit because his default pants were incredibly dumb.

The thing about this move is that it smacks of desperation. The logic behind it is "Assassin's Creed is popular, if we put it in our game the fans of AC will play our game!" and that's just a fundamental misunderstanding of the audience. It just ain't gonna happen. It didn't work for FFXIII-2 and it won't work here.

If they're really so obsessed with having mini festival DLCs and capitalising on the success and brand name of other games, here's one for you. Do the Chrono Trigger Millennial Fair. People will go absolutely berserk for it given how they've neglected the Chrono series over the past few years, and it's their own IP so they don't need anyone else's permission. Let's have the boy band whoop Gato's metal ass for silver points, give me a foot race between some Imperials and heck, have Noctis bash into Lunafreya and drop a pendant too!

They could even pull a trouthouse "Oh if this sells reaaaaally well maybe we'll consider possibly announcing a Chrono Trigger remake. Actually no, we'll definitely announce it, but we might consider having it release before 2022" move and I'd be cool with it.

What's next SE ? Call Of Duty DLC in the FF VII Remake ?


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Originally Posted by Psychotic

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

You people do realize that XIII-2 had a crossover thing with Mass Effect and that MGS4 already did the Assassin's Creed thing awhile back right? Oh how we forget the past and doom ourselves to repeat history and such nonsense.

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For sure, I absolutely dressed Noel in the Assassin's Creed outfit because his default pants were incredibly dumb.

The thing about this move is that it smacks of desperation. The logic behind it is "Assassin's Creed is popular, if we put it in our game the fans of AC will play our game!" and that's just a fundamental misunderstanding of the audience. It just ain't gonna happen. It didn't work for FFXIII-2 and it won't work here.

If they're really so obsessed with having mini festival DLCs and capitalising on the success and brand name of other games, here's one for you. Do the Chrono Trigger Millennial Fair. People will go absolutely berserk for it given how they've neglected the Chrono series over the past few years, and it's their own IP so they don't need anyone else's permission. Let's have the boy band whoop Gato's metal ass for silver points, give me a foot race between some Imperials and heck, have Noctis bash into Lunafreya and drop a pendant too!

They could even pull a trouthouse "Oh if this sells reaaaaally well maybe we'll consider possibly announcing a Chrono Trigger remake. Actually no, we'll definitely announce it, but we might consider having it release before 2022" move and I'd be cool with it.

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That's a good idea that would actually gain some interest from me.

Which just tells me that Square would never do it.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

You people do realize that XIII-2 had a crossover thing with Mass Effect and that MGS4 already did the Assassin's Creed thing awhile back right? Oh how we forget the past and doom ourselves to repeat history and such nonsense.

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For sure, I absolutely dressed Noel in the Assassin's Creed outfit because his default pants were incredibly dumb.

The thing about this move is that it smacks of desperation. The logic behind it is "Assassin's Creed is popular, if we put it in our game the fans of AC will play our game!" and that's just a fundamental misunderstanding of the audience. It just ain't gonna happen. It didn't work for FFXIII-2 and it won't work here.

If they're really so obsessed with having mini festival DLCs and capitalising on the success and brand name of other games, here's one for you. Do the Chrono Trigger Millennial Fair. People will go absolutely berserk for it given how they've neglected the Chrono series over the past few years, and it's their own IP so they don't need anyone else's permission. Let's have the boy band whoop Gato's metal ass for silver points, give me a foot race between some Imperials and heck, have Noctis bash into Lunafreya and drop a pendant too!

They could even pull a trouthouse "Oh if this sells reaaaaally well maybe we'll consider possibly announcing a Chrono Trigger remake. Actually no, we'll definitely announce it, but we might consider having it release before 2022" move and I'd be cool with it.

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Man, Chrono Trigger Millenial Fair. That's the best idea I've heard in forever.

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Originally Posted by Scruffington

Why couldn't they have just delayed the game another year? Why couldn't they have just scrapped all of these spinoffs, the anime, the movie, and focus on making the game as good as it could possibly be at launch?

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Because it worked so well before with the VII Compilation and lesser extent FFXIII. Believe me when I say you're preaching to the choir here as I feel the game should come first and the spin-offs after.

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Final Fantasy XV is not an MMO. I would rather Square Enix focus their time on their singleplayer content and actual story instead of time exclusive "festivals". Seems like SE has lost sight of what the franchise was built upon in the first place.

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Yes, but as it stands, the MMO entries are still doing strong and where FF gets most of their money in game development besides mobile. Since both departments are comprised of FF fans, it stands to reason they might like something like this.

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Expecting a Final Fantasy game to have fantasy elements, good characterization, a complete story, and depth in combat might be high standards. But they're also standards that the series exceeded and thrived at after 30 years of success. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect those things from an FF title, and FFXV failed to deliver on all of them.

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Eh, I'd put the "30 years of success" in quotation marks to be honest. For me personally, the franchise hasn't been the same since FFX came out, like it tried to be great but just felt so lackluster in comparison to Square's work on the PS1. I will give people FFXII and The World Ends With You, but frankly, FF has just been getting strikes or balls with most of their games since the 21st century began. Final Fantasy has kind of been a laughing stock for awhile now, and I don't feel it's realistic to believe Square-Enix can deliver a gaming experience on par with their glory years with the franchise.

With XV itself, the game had technically been in development for ten years by that point, by which I mean eight of those years was Nomura and Square-Enix sitting on the IP while they whored out KH and FFXIII between tying to release another FF MMO nobody asked for and then fixing it when they rushed it out the door. The last two years has been a different team trying to get a game that comprised of a first draft script, two tech demos, and some concept artwork into a full fledged games for a new console. I feel it was obvious to see that XV was never going to live up to the expectations people had for it while it was still Versus XIII. I think it was Fox who said it best, the game was developed by committee so it would be so inoffensive to sell, but not do anything to really capture people's imaginations. Had it had more time, perhaps, but the combination of fans bitching about waiting for it so long due to SE poorly marketing the game ten years ago, combined with a modern gaming era that is becoming more and more use to day one patches and frequent updates to "fix and develop" games past the traditional development window kind of caused this mess. Unfortunately, I feel the era of releasing "finished" stand alone titles ended in the PS2 era. SE knows they can milk this franchise, they wouldn't be wasting time making a remake of a twenty year old game if they didn't believe that.

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I would have this attitude, but unfortunately Tabata's team keeps sucking away Square Enix's resources to add useless updates to FFXV (like the multiplayer update).

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Considering the money they are making off of mobile titles and the MMOs, I wouldn't really worry about resources. Of anything, I would be pretty confidant to believe that SE really has most of it's resources in KHIII at the moment since it's the next big game. Tabata is likely working with a smaller dev team and even if he wasn't, SE is hardly a small firm and has entire divisions devoted to developing other content for SE. It's part of the reason why some fans think Division 12 (the Ivalice team) might be working on something, because no one has heard from them since their Crystal Defender titles a few years back. Point is, I feel Tabata wasting resources is unlikely.

@Psychotic - I like that idea to. It would be neat if XV did festivals for other IPs that belong to SE. A Mana festival to coincide with the remake of Secret of Mana might be cool, but I like the Millennium Fair idea, especially if it means they'll do the Aveh Festival in Xenogears eventually.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by Scruffington

Why couldn't they have just delayed the game another year? Why couldn't they have just scrapped all of these spinoffs, the anime, the movie, and focus on making the game as good as it could possibly be at launch?

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Because it worked so well before with the VII Compilation and lesser extent FFXIII. Believe me when I say you're preaching to the choir here as I feel the game should come first and the spin-offs after.

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And to a lesser extent, XV. I do feel as though there will be a dropoff and these will be less and less successful over time, especially as the main game suffers more and more. There will be more people (like me) who just don't care anymore and give up.

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Originally Posted by maybee

What's next SE ? Call Of Duty DLC in the FF VII Remake ?


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You're scaring me. :(

Weird thing I've noticed is that people who go on about how terrible optional DLC (in general) is are the same people who complain about the content of optional DLC. Does that mean you guys are actually getting said optional DLC? Because I don't mind if DLC is a thing and this is coming from someone who doesn't get any optional DLC pretty much ever. I think I've downloaded some DLC once in my lifetime. If you're that against DLC stuff then why not just either not buy it or in this case not download it? Your game won't change. Simple.

I don't really care much for this whole thing but I'd probably give it a go if I ever bother playing FFXV again.

If it isn't in the original game, I'm not bothered. If it is, but it's just a tiny thing such as a single optional aesthetic, I'm also not bothered. I only get bothered if it's forced upon me and has gameplay involved. This doeesn't check both boxes so :shrug:

I mean, as long as it's free DLC, I don't give a crap what it is. If it's something I find interesing, I'll get it, if not, I won't and won't feel like I'm missing anything. Really, I think free DLC is one of the least offensive things in gaming nowadays

I think there's some misunderstandings. No-one (sane) is offended by the offer of free DLC. It's just a shame to see the FF brand being cheapened by trying to latch on the tailcoat of another brand instead of coming up with an entirely original scenario. Particularly when the brand is Assassin's bloody Creed of all series - and I say this as an Assassin's Creed fan!

And yes, I am aware FF has done this repeatedly in the past and no I'm not interested in whataboutism. There are good partnerships (Kingdom Hearts, SSB) and some not so good ones.