Prove it!!!

[The Crystal]

I found other wrong things in your post Dragon Mage.

It's unsure as to exactly why Jenova came here, but the intention was not peaceful in the least. When it came here, it took the shape of the the indeginous species and played the part of a benevolent being for a time. Eventually it started to act, and showed the people specters of lost loved ones, displaying it's supposed power over the dead. In reality, it was manipulating the knowledge of previous lives memories immersed within the lifestream.

No, it wasn't.

*Jenova's mimic ability*
Jenova has a mimic ability which allows it to read the memories and feelings of others, then adjust its appearance, speech and behaviour accordingly to immitate what it has seen. Jenova once used this ability to get close to the Ancients and infect them with its virus, which killed many of them.

See? Nothing to do with the Lifestream.

To do this, they first injected members of SOLDIER with Jenova cells, not only to see what effect it would have, but to get the Promised Land sensing ability.

This is not completely right.

*The product of the project: Sephiroth*
While in Lucrecia's womb, Jenova's cells became part of Sephiroth's growth. While he's the biological son of Hojo and Lucrecia, with regards to his role in the project as an unnatural product of "Jenova of the Ancients," one could say that he is "the son of Jenova." Simultaneously, he was the first to have the role of a SOLDIER (-->P.217). However, mass production of SOLDIERs required adults of sound mind and body who could be injected with Jenova's cells and exposed to mako, as this simplification of the process used on Sephiroth would result in vast differences from how their bodies had been before.

Now, since Jenova was dead, it had no way of ever controlling it's body, obviously. But Sephiroth, who was half-Jenova, if you will, could manipulate the cells of Jenova's body, a trademark of the spieces it seems. So in all the times you see Jenova it is not really Jenova--it's Sephiroth controlling Jenova's cells. A madman fighting with the puppet of his 'mother's' dead body--which brings up the puppet question, but that's another story for another time.

Jenova wasn't dead during FFVII.

*Professor Gast and the Jenova Project*
Approximately 2000 years ago, Jenova collided with the Planet, and although the Ancients were nearly reduced to extinction, some Ancient survivors managed to seal Jenova underground in a deep sleep. However, Jenova would awaken because of Gast's guidance of Shin-Ra's Science Department.

Jenova was brain-dead, not completelly dead. This is proved by the fact that you fight against it, four times in the game. In FFVII Jenova was pure instinct and wasn't cunning anymore(like in the time of the Cetra), but that doesn't mean that it was completely dead.



If you feel annoyed by what i'm saying, this is your problem. I just don't like people spreading misinformation. You have the right to have your own opinion, but your opinions aren't facts.

[Woodinator]

Ok im reading this and some of you are stating that Jenova took the form of Sephiroth and was the one we saw frollicking about the world...when I played the game i didn't take it as that but figured it was Sephiroth using some power of sorts to project his image...maybe manipulating the lifestream in some way idk....but I never caught a hint saying Jenova's will did this....(I apoligize if it was proven in the essays...im just not in the mood to read long things after re-reading pride and prejudice for school ><)

[jammi567]

It's proved in the above post how Sephiroph was controlling Jenova.

[NeoCracker]

What we are getting is this argument out of official words.

You are using a translated version from some random guy. Unless you yourself can properly translate Japanese, there is no way of knowing if its even true or not, and if you can do it yourself you would need to prove it. While I'm not saying that this guide is wrong, there is no proof it's a proper translation. He could very easily of skewed or mistranslated certain things.

SoS's theory, while not being Cannon or official, at least uses evidence to prove its point. So while I won't accept it as fact, I'm willing to hold it in higher regard than that online translation.

In addition, assuming its true. What do you say about the evidence showing Jenova was in control that the guide does not refute? These are called Plot holes. I haven' t read that whole Guide yet, but I hear of problems with it from others. And the evidence they present often times has never been refuted. This seems to create a lot of plot holes if Sephiroth is really in control.

Also, as stated, it wasn't square who made the guide. Assuming this is true, even a direct and proper translation can hardly be taken as good enough evidence.

Quite frankly, the fact that so many different possobilities for any argument of the real villain in this game is rather sad. If so many things seem so easily possible, it makes the story seem to weak to be enjoyed.

[The Crystal]

What we are getting is this argument out of official words.

You are using a translated version from some random guy. Unless you yourself can properly translate Japanese, there is no way of knowing if its even true or not, and if you can do it yourself you would need to prove it. While I'm not saying that this guide is wrong, there is no proof it's a proper translation. He could very easily of skewed or mistranslated certain things.

SoS's theory, while not being Cannon or official, at least uses evidence to prove its point. So while I won't accept it as fact, I'm willing to hold it in higher regard than that online translation.

In addition, assuming its true. What do you say about the evidence showing Jenova was in control that the guide does not refute? These are called Plot holes. I haven' t read that whole Guide yet, but I hear of problems with it from others. And the evidence they present often times has never been refuted. This seems to create a lot of plot holes if Sephiroth is really in control.

Also, as stated, it wasn't square who made the guide. Assuming this is true, even a direct and proper translation can hardly be taken as good enough evidence.

Quite frankly, the fact that so many different possobilities for any argument of the real villain in this game is rather sad. If so many things seem so easily possible, it makes the story seem to weak to be enjoyed.

I don't know if it was directly created by SE or not, but even if it wasn't, SE published it in their name, and now is official.

And if i'm not wrong, this is the only translation of the UOG in the internet. We don't have other translation to compare with, meaning that this translation is correct, until someone prove the contrary with a better one.

And about SoS theory, maybe it have more sense(i didn't read it), but is useless compared with the UOG. You said that "What do you say about the evidence showing Jenova was in control that the guide does not refute?", but you have to remember that SE don't need to prove anything. If they say that Sephiroth was in controll, is because he was, the end. FFVII is their story, and they can do whatever they want with it. Their word about FF is the law, because they created the series. They know more about their work than us.

[f f freak]

We don't have other translation to compare with, meaning that this translation is the best we have but we can't be sure if it is correct

I fixed it for you

[NeoCracker]

I'm not that the UMG is going to be wrong. I'm saying that if its not consistant with various things in the story, it creates plot holes, things that don't ad up. I'm not a guy whose just going to ignore large numbers of plot holes. If you are, good for you.

And assuming the only one is correct is just plain silly, as is talking it as Squares official word. Its stupid to blindly trust some random dude who translated it and put it up on IGN. There is nothing official about that online translation.

[jammi567]

So basically, nothing translated from another language is official? that's just being fu*king stupid.

[The Crystal]

I'm not that the UMG is going to be wrong. I'm saying that if its not consistant with various things in the story, it creates plot holes, things that don't ad up. I'm not a guy whose just going to ignore large numbers of plot holes. If you are, good for you.

Well, don't exist anyone completely perfect. SE is made of people, and they make mistakes some times, like any human. FFVII have some plot holes like many other games/movies/books, and we have just to accept it.

And assuming the only one is correct is just plain silly, as is talking it as Squares official word. Its stupid to blindly trust some random dude who translated it and put it up on IGN. There is nothing official about that online translation.

What he said is truth, because it isn't his word, is SE word. If you want to prove that "he" is wrong, instead of using events in the game to explain your theory/opinion, you have to translate the UOG and prove that what he said is wrong. Because if you cannot translate it, how you can say that his translation is wrong? How you know?
No offense dude, but the word of a guy that translated the official guide of a game, is more valid than the word of a guy that is trying to prove something about the same game using only his opinions.

[G3ORGE]

Dont forget Jenova could still be around..Barely but like in a lil jar somwhere and come back and do more evil lol.

[f f freak]

What he said is truth, because it isn't his word, is SE word

Wrong. You don't know it's true. It is his word unless it was translated by someone at SE.

Because if you cannot translate it, how you can say that his translation is wrong? How you know?

And if you cannot translate it how do you know his translation is right? Well?

[jammi567]

What he said is truth, because it isn't his word, is SE word

Wrong. You don't know it's true. It is his word unless it was translated by someone at SE.

Because if you cannot translate it, how you can say that his translation is wrong? How you know?

And if you cannot translate it how do you know his translation is right? Well?

1) he's hardly going to be lying about what it says in theguide when he's publishing it to a general audiance, is he.

2) the point is, you'll have to learn something called trust, otherwise, there's no point having this convosation.

[The Crystal]

Wrong. You don't know it's true. It is his word unless it was translated by someone at SE.

"He's hardly going to be lying about what it says in the guide when he's publishing it to a general audiance." Even because another person that know japanese could translate the guide and prove that he is wrong, and he would lose all his credibility, people would hate him, etc.

And if you cannot translate it how do you know his translation is right? Well?

Because he know Japanese, and because he wouldn't have any reason to lie to all the internet. Basically what you are saying, is that any source of information(books, movies, etc) translated and published by someone that don't work for the creators of the same source, is not valid as a prove, just because YOU cannot translate it and prove that is wrong(or right). MANY people already readed the guide(some of them know japanese), and no one complained about his translations yet. They even use his translation as evidence in MANY diferent forums in the internet. People in all the world belive(and know) that he is right. Is your word against the words of millions of people(some of them know japanese) and if you still think that his translation is wrong, "Prove it!!!".

[OneWingedAngelSephiroth91]

If shinra wasn't evil, then what were they?

I retract my statement about ShinRa.
My post is edited now, Mirage.

the Sun was the source of Supermans power but was NOT the hero other wise he and the other Kryptonians couldn't do their thing. So, Jenova was was just like Sephiroth's Sun so that analogy is good right?

Close but not exactly. The sun wasn't forcing Superman's actions. He wasn't driven by the sun's will. He could choose to do what he wanted. Sephiroth was forced to do as Jenova willed him.

no he wasn't forced to do anything.
WOOOOOOOW this is a long argument...I kinda smirk to see this kinda thing...people versus each other, trying to prove lies and truth...lol....this is what I like...TOTAL CHAOS!!!!! Fuwhahahahahahaha

[Dragon Mage]

I don't remember, sorry. And because i said that you was wrong in one thing in a post, you are already annoyed?! You become annoyed very easily.

I was having a bad day. And you attacked my post when we've gone over it all before. I don't like to repeat myself.

And i'm questioning you in what you said, because if Jenova spreaded her cells in the Lifestream during the "war" against the Cetra, why Sephiroth didn't use the Jenova cells in it to create Geostigma during FFVII? Why he did that only in AC? What are you saying don't make any sense, and if you want us to belive in you, PROVE IT!!!

Because Sephiroth isn't completely Jenova, now is he? He has limits with what he can do with his own cells. Even in AC it was Jenova's cells, not his, that were infecting people. He'd find it hard to 'spread' himself out through the lifestream and still stay intact. That's why.

I have to prove that the UOG exist?! Okay, here is your prove:

I was being sarcastic. dur.

I found other wrong things in your post Dragon Mage.

It's unsure as to exactly why Jenova came here, but the intention was not peaceful in the least. When it came here, it took the shape of the the indeginous species and played the part of a benevolent being for a time. Eventually it started to act, and showed the people specters of lost loved ones, displaying it's supposed power over the dead. In reality, it was manipulating the knowledge of previous lives memories immersed within the lifestream.

No, it wasn't.

*Jenova's mimic ability*
Jenova has a mimic ability which allows it to read the memories and feelings of others, then adjust its appearance, speech and behaviour accordingly to immitate what it has seen. Jenova once used this ability to get close to the Ancients and infect them with its virus, which killed many of them.

See? Nothing to do with the Lifestream.

So it's psionic instead? That's all you had to say, is that it's psionic. But is there any evidence of these psionic abilities displayed in the game? No. I'm not saying that your guide is wrong; I'm just saying it's laking evidence of it's own.

To do this, they first injected members of SOLDIER with Jenova cells, not only to see what effect it would have, but to get the Promised Land sensing ability.

This is not completely right.

*The product of the project: Sephiroth*
While in Lucrecia's womb, Jenova's cells became part of Sephiroth's growth. While he's the biological son of Hojo and Lucrecia, with regards to his role in the project as an unnatural product of "Jenova of the Ancients," one could say that he is "the son of Jenova." Simultaneously, he was the first to have the role of a SOLDIER (-->P.217). However, mass production of SOLDIERs required adults of sound mind and body who could be injected with Jenova's cells and exposed to mako, as this simplification of the process used on Sephiroth would result in vast differences from how their bodies had been before.

Hm. Interesting. Your quote from this guide says nothing at all as to why they did this to the would-be SOLDIERS. I did. That's the only difference. Other than that, what I said and what the guide said is the same. Your argument would be...?

Now, since Jenova was dead, it had no way of ever controlling it's body, obviously. But Sephiroth, who was half-Jenova, if you will, could manipulate the cells of Jenova's body, a trademark of the spieces it seems. So in all the times you see Jenova it is not really Jenova--it's Sephiroth controlling Jenova's cells. A madman fighting with the puppet of his 'mother's' dead body--which brings up the puppet question, but that's another story for another time.

Jenova wasn't dead during FFVII.

*Professor Gast and the Jenova Project*
Approximately 2000 years ago, Jenova collided with the Planet, and although the Ancients were nearly reduced to extinction, some Ancient survivors managed to seal Jenova underground in a deep sleep. However, Jenova would awaken because of Gast's guidance of Shin-Ra's Science Department.

Jenova was brain-dead, not completelly dead. This is proved by the fact that you fight against it, four times in the game. In FFVII Jenova was pure instinct and wasn't cunning anymore(like in the time of the Cetra), but that doesn't mean that it was completely dead.

Ah ha. So, a powerful, near immortal being such as Jenova, would bow to the whim of a bastard half-breed madman? Wow.

And just what is the difference between brain-dead and plain ol' dead? Technically, they're the same. With the only difference being that 'brain-dead' is a living body lacking a mind. Either way, Jenova is incapable of movement or even thinking for its self. It can be controlled and it wouldn't even know it. Because there is no mind, no conscience. See? And like I said before, It was Sephiroth controlling Jenova's body when you fight it in the game. Jenova wasn't home. Sephiroth controlled it's body to fight you in the game. Just because it's fighting doesn't mean it's alive.

If you feel annoyed by what i'm saying, this is your problem. I just don't like people spreading misinformation. You have the right to have your own opinion, but your opinions aren't facts.

I never said that my opinions are facts. But my 'opinions' are all based on what is revealed to you in the game, and are accurate. It isn't 'misinformation'. It's an explaination of certain aspects in the game as shown to you in the game. So leave off it, you snowcone.