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Thread: This game is awful

  1. #1

    Default This game is awful

    seriously have any of you posting here ever played Final Fantasy VI-VII and the subsequent rpgs up till X? Do you really think this game holds the same standard of quality in terms of storyline, original score, and character development?

    I'm not trying to troll or anything but I'm honestly just looking for clarification as to how one can overlook this game's many many flaws. This game is to Final Fantasy what Phantom Menace was to Star Wars. Pretentious, shallow, tries to impress you with a whole -ton of CGI sequences, but in the end only succeeds in ruining a once respected series.

    I'll expound on my thoughts later as to how exactly this game fails utterly, I've got school for now =p I'm really interested in hearing your opinions though.

  2. #2
    Chocobocconcini Doomie's Avatar
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    Honestly, this game sucks storywise. I'm not exactly sure what's going on. However, the gameplay is probably one of the best. The turn-based system was getting old. Not to mention that the license grid system was pretty fun to complete. What's even better is that you have SO MANY secret bosses and dungeons. Overall, it's a decent game.

  3. #3

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    And I thought I was basically alone in my absolute contempt for this game. I wouldn't say it 'ruins' the series (there has been at least one worse installment in the main series), but I think your analogy of this game being The Phantom Menace is pretty accurate.

  4. #4
    Draw the Drapes Recognized Member rubah's Avatar
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    Cut scenes? I've seen fewer than FFX had in the first hour xD

    I haven't finished it, so I can't argue details, but I have a crapload of hours on the clock, so I'd definitely say it was worth the money spent

  5. #5
    Oh hello there! silentenigma's Avatar
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    Yeah, all your arguements are valid, but it's still pretty good.

  6. #6
    it's not fun, don't do it Moon Rabbits's Avatar
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    False. This game is great.

    The storyline was a great concept and whatnot, and I think extremely original. It just had bad pacing.

    Lack of character development? I thought there was a fair decent amount, actually. And the characters were all likeable, to me anyway, and XII is one of the only FFs to have a cast that I enjoy in it's entirety.

    I don't feel there were too many cutscenes either, because I was never really bored.

    Either way, the good out weight the bad, and with the hundreds of extra things to do I really do like this game.

  7. #7

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    yes the new battle system is good. But seriously have you ever picked up a new rpg thinking to yourself "damn I hope the battle system is good." Its not the defining feature of an rpg and never was and never will be. All a good battle system does is make the dungeon crawling more tolerable ( which at times random battles could drive you insane ) however its not praiseworthy when the rest of the game sucks.

    Another thing worth noting about this new and improved battle system was how terribley it was implemented. It could have been the best freakin battle system to ever grace an rpg, but the way this game makes you trudge through hours and hours of turgid mindless killing of npcs it just doesn't matter, thats not rewarding and does a number on the game's pacing.

    As for the character development being "fair and decent" ... Well really I dont know how you could come to that conclusion, Vaan's persepective never deviates from "I hate the empire cus my brother was killed and I wanna be a sky pirate!" Its laughable .. 50 hours into the game nearly having beaten it and he still is no different. We learn nothing of him. All this while hes supposed to be the "main character" ... wtf? Oh and dont get me started with Penello, I still cant figure out why shes going along other than just for the hell of it. I think the game wants us to believe that too.

    and then, theres the music. Oh god it makes me miss Nobuo Uematsu so bad. After having beaten it I dont think I could remember a single track from the game let alone like it. They are that forgettable.
    Last edited by Shadow8017; 02-22-2007 at 04:08 AM.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8017 View Post
    yes the new battle system is good. But seriously have you ever picked up a new rpg thinking to yourself "damn I hope the battle system is good."

    well, considering that the battle system in any rpg is what makes or breaks the gameplay, yes, i do think to myself, "damn I hope the [gameplay] is good."


    All this while hes [Vaan] supposed to be the "main character" ... wtf? Oh and dont get me started with Penello, I still cant figure out why shes going along other than just for the hell of it. I think the game wants us to believe that too.
    actually, i have an issue of official playstation magazine that has akitoshi kawazu (FFXII producer) saying that there is no single main character. and yes, i think penelo sucks as well.

    and then, theres the music. Oh god it makes me miss Nobuo Uematsu so bad. After having beaten it I dont think I could remember a single track from the game let alone like it. They are that forgettable.

    i totally agree with you on this one. the music sucked so bad in my opinion.

  9. #9

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    What do you know! It's reality time!

    One of the things I enjoy about RPG's in general, and about FF's specifically, is the process of building the characters and covering the entire game world with a fine-tooth comb. In this respect, at least, FFXII does pretty well.

    Towards the end of the game, you start to get a sense that things are coming to a head, and as I realized this fact I thought, "This better not be the end! There is just no way they could wrap the whole thing up so shortly." Hence my disappointment.

    It is possible to spend a lot of time (a lot of hours) making your way through the game, but "high number of hours" does not equal "adequate development." I think the development team got lost on their way to include everything plus the kitchen sink in this game, and completely forgot about the overall experience.

    The whole license board thing seemed to me a flawed imitation of the sphere grid. Collecting gil is tedious- spending hours just to obtain enough to keep up with the tons of superfluous equipment being dumped into the shops.

    Anyway, I truly wouldn't mind a return to the PS1 platform FF's. I'm happy to stand in an unrealistic line during battle if it means more attention would be paid to what's really important.


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  10. #10
    STILL Anti Balthier Setzer Gabianni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Rabbits View Post
    False. This game is great.

    The storyline was a great concept and whatnot, and I think extremely original. It just had bad pacing.
    Lack of character development? I thought there was a fair decent amount, actually. And the characters were all likeable, to me anyway, and XII is one of the only FFs to have a cast that I enjoy in it's entirety.

    I don't feel there were too many cutscenes either, because I was never really bored.

    Either way, the good out weight the bad, and with the hundreds of extra things to do I really do like this game.

    I agree entirely with this, apart from the stuff in bold, but once I have played more of the game, I'll give you my opinion Shadow.

    This game doesn't really have a lot of flaws, apart from smurfing up Tiamats design completely.

    But then, we can't please everybody can we? We all have different tastes, thoughts.

    I get the impression people went into this expecting it to be the best FF ever, doing very little research as to not spoil themselves, and when they did play it, they didn't like the changes.

    I made sure to spoil myself, as I always do, so I pretty much know what I'm going to, and I know for a fact this is pretty much going to be my fave FF since VI.

    (SPOILER)I love FFXII


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  11. #11
    I have one of these now Nominus Experse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8017 View Post
    yes the new battle system is good. But seriously have you ever picked up a new rpg thinking to yourself "damn I hope the battle system is good."
    You don't, and never have?
    I have, on many accounts, decided to look into it further than just the back cover.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8017 View Post
    Its not the defining feature of an rpg and never was and never will be. All a good battle system does is make the dungeon crawling more tolerable
    So this would explain why many RPGs are constantly trying to add innovations that are notable in their battle mechanics, and publicize such things heavily.

    People tire of the same thing. Change gives way to novelty, and in turn, gives way to a level of interest and excitement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8017 View Post
    however its not praiseworthy when the rest of the game sucks.
    You have yet to give a solid argument as to why FFXII is an awful game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8017 View Post
    Another thing worth noting about this new and improved battle system was how terribley it was implemented. It could have been the best freakin battle system to ever grace an rpg, but the way this game makes you trudge through hours and hours of turgid mindless killing of npcs it just doesn't matter, thats not rewarding and does a number on the game's pacing.
    In an RPG, one travels, commonly through various environments that may range from dungeons to grand spires, most - if not all - are infested with fiends that wish to harm you. In FFVII on up, upon every attack, you are taken to another screen, and there and then, you fought whatever random encounter decided to "attack" you. If you can possibly give a valid argument as to how FFXII's seamless transition between dungeon crawling and battling is somehow more time-consuming or invasive in concerns to the story's pacing than that of previous FF's... I will be surprised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8017 View Post
    As for the character development being "fair and decent" ... Well really I dont know how you could come to that conclusion, Vaan's persepective never deviates from "I hate the empire cus my brother was killed and I wanna be a sky pirate!" Its laughable .. 50 hours into the game nearly having beaten it and he still is no different. We learn nothing of him. All this while hes supposed to be the "main character" ... wtf?
    If you look at it more closely, Vaan is not the main character.

    Unlike many other FF's or RPGs, FFXII did not have a "one" hero character, but was rather a story of political intrigue and conflict that these characters are caught up in.

    Look at Ashe, Baltheir, Fran.... Every character is dynamic to a degree, so saying that they are completely static is rash. Additionally, complaining that a character holds onto a set motive seems... strange to me, as there are particular things that motivate people/characters for their entire lives, and justifiably so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8017 View Post
    and then, theres the music. Oh god it makes me miss Nobuo Uematsu so bad. After having beaten it I dont think I could remember a single track from the game let alone like it. They are that forgettable.
    You complain because it is different, not because it is sub-par.
    ...

  12. #12
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Wow, here I was getting ready to lay the smackdown and Nominus Experse beats me to it. So I guess I'll lay down my two cents. I love this game, it's not my favorite but I walked away from it pretty satisfied. It offered me everything I've wanted from the series for awhile.

    First off, this game has a ton of sidequests and optional areas. Something that has been lacking in the series for awhile. The game actually encourages you to explore (except not in the obnoxious DQ way of doing it.) The world is incredible and detailed. Their is more backstory to this world than any other FF I know of except for maybe FFT. The cities are huge and filled with people making them feel alive. Hell, the NPC's usually have something relevant to say for once.

    The characters are more realistic, in the sense that their is a level of mistrust with each other. Vaan can be annoying but at least the party is aware of this and tend to put him in his place. As for Penelo, I give her props for not being perky like Rikku or Selphie or Yuffie (evil little #@$%) basically the same damn template that's been used in every FF since FFV. For that, I like her cause she never spoke and never tried to "cheer me up". It gets old people...

    I feel all the cast is given enough backstory to justify who they are and where they stand in the world. Honestly, I don't really want to know more about Vaan and Penelo, especially since talking to the NPC's gave me a pretty good idea of what they were like as children. Also, their is no officail main character to FFXII.

    The gameplay is wonderful and I never felt like I was being dragged down by countless hordes of monsters. When I didn't feel like fighting I found that I could easily avoid combat. The gambits are fun to use cause I love building strategies. The Liscience Board is a pretty interesting take on the Job Class system. I loved the weapons and how much they really changed a character in combat. Buying them was a pain but it brought back memories of playing FFI and FFIV. You know where you had to take time to earn money to buy new stuff so the next dungeon doesn't hand you your ass.

    I love the huge areas to explore and the fact that a good number of them are completely optional. You see, I played these games back in the day when exploration was everything to an RPG. So it was a welcomed sights, especially since the series has become increasingly linear since FFVII.

    The story, was pretty good. Simple. But good. I'm just grateful it wasn't hounded with plot holes or terrible writing choices which has been occuring more often since the PS1 generation. It had one major plot twist I didn't see coming and I found the political intrigue to be satisfying. I especailly loved Lady Ashe's relationship to the whole story. I loved how human it was. Her internal conflict was one of the strong points of the story. I did wish the Judges got more airtime though.

    My only complaints are just the random treasure chest contents (I know it's not something new in RPGs but I still hate it.) the final boss battle could have been a bit challenging (what is up with FF games making their final bosses losers? Stop building uber optioanl bosses and let me have a damn good final boss fight for once. ) I also wish the music could have been more memorable. I liked the soundtrack but there were very few memorable tracks. Other than that, I think it's a really good game, I feel it has truly set the bar on world and game design in RPGs.

  13. #13

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    /shrugs... I remember FFXII's music about as well as I remember any of the others. I can't name a track from 1, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 or Tactics offhand. I do remember two of 7's tunes a little, and the final theme for 8. Then theres the standard FF tune that is in every game. The music seemed fine to me... nothing really special or area/scene defining.. but thats not a real big loss to me.

    You play some music, and I could probably tell you which FF it came from out of those... but I never could name the track except for a very few mentioned.

    The gameplay is different than previous, although still good.
    Vaan changes a little, its just more subtle and not screamed out. Yes, I did not quite like the story as much as previous FFs, but to each his own. It felt a little more exploration and less aligned to a single road... because there wasn't as much story.

    However there were some bad parts, most notably a certain optional boss, and the random treasure chest system... although I see a point for the system, its not as practical as past treasure systems.

    I don't think I'll be replaying it too much, similar to most of the PS+ generation FFs... but it was pretty good.

  14. #14

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    Nominus, your response reeks of arrogance. Particularly at points you're giving me alternative explanations as to why I personally dislike a certain point, and then proceeding to sell it as fact. it's humerous, but I'm going to refrain from explaining to you how this is arrogant and unproductive for argument's sake. If you don't understand why ... then sorry.


    ..On to your arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nominus Experse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8017 View Post
    yes the new battle system is good. But seriously have you ever picked up a new rpg thinking to yourself "damn I hope the battle system is good."
    You don't, and never have?
    I have, on many accounts, decided to look into it further than just the back cover.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8017 View Post
    Its not the defining feature of an rpg and never was and never will be. All a good battle system does is make the dungeon crawling more tolerable
    Quote Originally Posted by Nominus Experse View Post
    So this would explain why many RPGs are constantly trying to add innovations that are notable in their battle mechanics, and publicize such things heavily.

    People tire of the same thing. Change gives way to novelty, and in turn, gives way to a level of interest and excitement.
    I believe you're misunderstanding what I'm saying about the battle system here at a very fundamental level. Let me break it down for you. What I'm saying is something I know without a doubt that the rpg gaming community as a whole can agree on and thats that generally STORIES have sold rpgs ... actually the focual points are a combination of story/music. ( both which FFXII were lacking of course, more on that later ) Take Final Fantasy VII for example. Perhaps the most popular console rpg ever. Time and time again, people will cite their reasons for remembering back on it so fondly as being the intriguing story, interesting characters, and an amazing masterfully attuned musical composition. Music that seemed to fit each and every moment so perfectly. NOT and I repeat NOT the battle system. Perhaps the reason you see franchises extolling over their new and super-duper battle mechanics is because they're trying to lure NEW gamers into the genre. However we "true' rpg gamers know better. We know that in each and every rpg we play we're going to be treated to battle after battle after battle and its just too inherently repititive to gloat over. YES the traditional battle system of Final Fantasies was due for an overhaul, and yes I believe they succeeded in creating something fresh and worthwhile with the new one however.... It's simply not the "selling" point of an rpg and if you want to argue with me on this than I suppose we can just "agree to disagree" however you're going to have to explain yourself to many others besides just myself.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8017 View Post
    however its not praiseworthy when the rest of the game sucks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nominus Experse View Post
    [You have yet to give a solid argument as to why FFXII is an awful game.
    And you've achieved mountaneous things in defending it. Look around, others are agreeing with me. I'll do my best in explaining why I found this game to be so hideously sub-par and if you still can't agree with me than I assure you it's not my problem. Perhaps we have different tastes, I can't say everyone will have the same experience. However as someone whos been playin FF since the release of III (US) and countless other rpgs I'm confident my sentiment will resonate with many others so you be the judge.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nominus Experse View Post
    In an RPG, one travels, commonly through various environments that may range from dungeons to grand spires, most - if not all - are infested with fiends that wish to harm you. In FFVII on up, upon every attack, you are taken to another screen, and there and then, you fought whatever random encounter decided to "attack" you.
    lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Nominus Experse View Post
    If you can possibly give a valid argument as to how FFXII's seamless transition between dungeon crawling and battling is somehow more time-consuming or invasive in concerns to the story's pacing than that of previous FF's... I will be surprised.
    Sure. The lack of involvement due to the abusing of gambits definately made it feel more time-consuming. Sure I could cast a spell here and there, however more often than not it just isn't necassary. All that's required of you is getting from point A to point B while letting your gambits do the all the work so you're essentially playing a game thats in auto-pilot. The boss fights, being as random as they often were, were really the only times I felt engaged. To make matters worse, there's rarely ... if ever that I can recall a point in which any actually interesting dialogue is going on between your party during these dungeon sloughs. Its usually only tidbits of information exchanged relevent to your task at hand, I guess to remind you why you're there in the first place just incase you forgot. Furthermore, in rpgs past, the monotony of dungeons is usually offset by obtaining treasure that actually contain something worthwhile. The inclusion of chests in FFXII is really suspect, as 90% of the time they never really contain something of more value than a couple of hundred gil, or a gambit that I typically already possess. That and tack on some very pointless trivial puzzle-solving and you got yourself a guaranteed 1 hour or more snoozefest upon entering a dungeon or new area. Afterwards in which you'll be treated with nothing more than what to do next or at best how the political tides of Ivalice have shifted. Rarely ever learning anything actually new about your party that depthens them, especially if its not Ashe, Balthier, or Basche, who I'd argue are really the only characters in your party relevent to the story. Speaking of which..


    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8017 View Post
    As for the character development being "fair and decent" ... Well really I dont know how you could come to that conclusion, Vaan's persepective never deviates from "I hate the empire cus my brother was killed and I wanna be a sky pirate!" Its laughable .. 50 hours into the game nearly having beaten it and he still is no different. We learn nothing of him. All this while hes supposed to be the "main character" ... wtf?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nominus Experse View Post
    If you look at it more closely, Vaan is not the main character.

    Unlike many other FF's or RPGs, FFXII did not have a "one" hero character, but was rather a story of political intrigue and conflict that these characters are caught up in.

    Look at Ashe, Baltheir, Fran.... Every character is dynamic to a degree, so saying that they are completely static is rash. Additionally, complaining that a character holds onto a set motive seems... strange to me, as there are particular things that motivate people/characters for their entire lives, and justifiably so.
    First you start off playing as Vaan, he's also the character featured in front of everyone on the box. While it is true he is not the typical "main character" we have been given in games past, it seems as if it is atleast implied he is a feature character ... and thats shocking when considering the story could have gotten by just fine without him. His role in this game can be reduced to arbitrarily asking "what is this? what is that? You mean to tell me ___" and many many equally asinine variations whos mode is merely to advance the story in an all-too predictable manner. sigh... Ok lets see.. Penello, well not much to say here, shes along for the ride to save the world cus she wants to be around Vaan. Even "wildcard" characters in the past such as Cait Sith had atleast good REASON to be along with your party, despite them not receiving much development, which in FFXII's case was the norm rather than the exception. Fran and Balthier. Fran's pretty funny cus we really never learn why she is travelling alongside Balthier other than just some vague "do-goodery" intentions that seems to prevail with everyone in the party. We're "treated" to some rather dull and brief bits about her past (SPOILER)and seperating herself from the wood and the Vierra and we get the idea shes the outcast of her society but still ... thats barebones crap, she has some real potential but they just didn't bother to flesh it out. 60 hours of gameplay down the dumper and still ... why is she Balthier's companion? Who the hell is she really?.. Balthier is refreshing cus his personality and manner of speach isn't so god damn robotic like all the others, and he seemingly has ties with the story (SPOILER)because his father being the head researcher of the draclore labaratory so atleast that puts him above the competition. Ashe and Basche. Again I think these characters are more victim to the theme of this game's focus on the grand scheme of the political spectrum ( which was overral trite and predictable evil empire oppressing smaller weaker nations crap with not a whole lot inbetween ) rather than the characters themselves. They had potential but when I examine Ashe I just dont properly feel her sense of urgency and responsibility, its just the vague do-goodery stuff that she wishes to protect and liberate her country but with her character being so 1-dimensional its almost like it doesn't allow me to relate. and why does she have to be so flat, can't her attitude change ... at all to keep things interesting if anything else. Basche is eh well just victim of more of the same flaws.

    I think what we're looking at here is exploiting these characters just as a vehicle to progress their CGI-bound story and thats it. Which is both a waste and a radical departure from any "good" rpg I've ever played. It's as if they thought that we would be so engrossed in their "epic" story and all the pretty graphics we wouldn't stop to notice. Ultimately if you dont give your characters proper attention, the story itself becomes somewhat null and void. Final Fantasies in the past understood this and it showed, (SPOILER)we cared when Aeris died, we cared when Vivi was reconciling his fear with his finite lifespan, we cared when Tidus dematerialised at the end. The characters in FFXII are so soulless compared to this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8017 View Post
    and then, theres the music. Oh god it makes me miss Nobuo Uematsu so bad. After having beaten it I dont think I could remember a single track from the game let alone like it. They are that forgettable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nominus Experse View Post
    You complain because it is different, not because it is sub-par.
    Music's role in an rpg is paramount, it's what really captivates you and draws you in the moment. An example we often hear is Aeris music (SPOILER)after she dies - perfect, but in a well composed OST even the town music will be "fitting" to that particular environment. In FFXII I found it to be dull, unimpressionable, and pretty generic to me but then again maybe it doesn't matter since that usually sums up my feelings about any given moment in the game. Props to you if you actually like it. It just all sounded so plain and uninspired ... like the composer wasn't really working as closely with the game devs on what exactly he was composing for other than "generic happy town theme" ... the game did go through a few of management overhauls as I understand it so that might explain it. As for me not liking it cus its "different" .. nice try but no. I've run the gamut of rpgs with my favorite OSTs being Chrono Cross, FFVI, and FFVII ... all of which sound quite different from eachother - one being on the snes and the other two composed by different people.
    Last edited by Shadow8017; 02-22-2007 at 09:30 PM.

  15. #15
    Lives in a zoo Recognized Member Renmiri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8017 View Post
    Do you really think this game holds the same standard of quality in terms of storyline, original score, and character development?

    I'm not trying to troll or anything but I'm honestly just looking for clarification as to how one can overlook this game's many many flaws.
    True,and you are not the first. I've been saying that for ages here and almost got lynched.

    But like X-2, the game does get better after you get over the fact that it shattered your expectations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8017 View Post
    and then, theres the music. Oh god it makes me miss Nobuo Uematsu so bad. After having beaten it I dont think I could remember a single track from the game let alone like it. They are that forgettable.
    QFT

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8017 View Post
    Nominus, your response reeks of arrogance.
    That will happen often when you tell the game fans you didn't like their idolized game Nominus wasn't 1% as rabid as some other FFXII lovers I've met since november. I've heard so much BS!!! Things like
    - people who like FFXII are more mature (because they like hacking monsters more than they like story ?)
    - FFXII is for people with culture who appreciate the originality of the story (yeah, people with culture who never heard of the Roman Empire )
    - If you don't like FFXII you don't really like RPGs (because ??? )

    Anyhow, like FFVII and X, this game has it's fanboys and fangirls so be gentle with your criticism or you will get flamed!

    And don't judge it too harshly. Gameplay is fun, graphics are great and the sidequests and little details of the world of Ivalice rock. You may end up liking it, in spite of it's many flaws. I did.
    Last edited by Renmiri; 02-23-2007 at 12:43 AM.
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