The reasons why FFVII gamers can choose to ignore The Compilation if they wish

[Ryushikaze]

Retcon can't be canon by default, it speaks for itself.

Just saying the opposite of what I say does not make it so.

The very nature of "canon" and "retcon" mean that any of the latter automatically are included in the former. When a creator makes a change to what they make, it's official. It overrides what came before.

You can ignore these changes, but it DOES NOT remove them from the canon. Only the creators get to decide what is and is not canon. You have no say in this, at all, and according to SE, the compilation IS canon.

I repeat again, what you WANT to say is that the compilation is not included in your personal fanon.

[NeoCracker]

Retcons are canon by default. The SW:SE retcons are canon, for example. Also, congratulations for completely destroying your point. You don't work for SE, and, as such, have no say in what is or is not canon.

What you now MEAN to say is that the compilation is not in your personal FANON.

Retcon can't be canon by default, it speaks for itself. I don't have any say in what is canon or not because I don't work for Square Enix, and so I can't give you any official information. That doesn't mean I have ruined my point, which is official are not always equal to canon. It means I can't tell you this from an official source and because of that you have to make up your own opinion in deciding whether to consider The Compilation canon or not, that's the whole point of the topic.

Dammit will you stop saying "The Crystal" every time you refer to him. I know thats his name, but damn thats annoying.

Then I suggest The Crystal himself tell me that so I can call him Crystal if he think that sounds better . Or should I start calling you Cracker ? Maybe I can be Coal ?

You're a littly behind the times my friend. No one calls people by their full names here. So yes, call me cracker like all the others. And The Crystal Crystal And I'm my own milf either milf or milfy, Loony_BoB Bob, Fire_of_Avalon FoA, That dude with they Ryu in front of his name Ryu, nic0tine nic, Goldenboco boco, and others I may or may not update later.

[Charcoal]

Just saying the opposite of what I say does not make it so.

The very nature of "canon" and "retcon" mean that any of the latter automatically are included in the former. When a creator makes a change to what they make, it's official. It overrides what came before.

You can ignore these changes, but it DOES NOT remove them from the canon. Only the creators get to decide what is and is not canon. You have no say in this, at all, and according to SE, the compilation IS canon.

I repeat again, what you WANT to say is that the compilation is not included in your personal fanon.

Like I've said earlier:

I don't claim retcon is necessarily a bad thing, if a story needs some improvements, retcon might be what restoring it. FFVII however never needed such treatment, only reason FFVII ever got retcon in it is because Square Enix reel in on that.

Some stories handle it better then others I guess. And judging by how many mistakes SE have made in The Compilation (like how characters suddenly disappear FFX style) FFVII is obviously only been redone because SE want to make some quick money.

And like I've said on several occations, The Compilation is official and commonly considered canon. However there was a previous version of FFVII of this and it remains whether official (anymore) or not. The Compilation is only there to reel in the cash and so, because of all the differences, it can't be considered canon when comparing it to the 1997 story.

And thats why people have to decide for themselves whether to consider The Compilation canon or not - again the point of the topic.

You're a littly behind the times my friend. No one calls people by their full names here. So yes, call me cracker like all the others. And The Crystal Crystal And I'm my own milf either milf or milfy, Loony_BoB Bob, Fire_of_Avalon FoA, That dude with they Ryu in front of his name Ryu, nic0tine nic, Goldenboco boco, and others I may or may not update later.

If it's that annoying then ok, I'll stick to using half the name .

[Ryushikaze]

And Again, I call your reasons BS. You have no right to decide what is and is not canon. That's SE's perogative, not yours. Even if new installments are just there to draw in the cash (of course, so was the original. The point is to sell a product, after all), SE putting out new products already includes them into the canon until they say otherwise. This includes any and all retcons.

FANON. This is the term you need to familiarize yourself with. FANON.

And your one example of the "errors" in the game isn't an error. Kadaj was shinentai. It makes sense for him to burst into lifestream as he loses cohesion.

[Charcoal]

And Again, I call your reasons BS. You have no right to decide what is and is not canon. That's SE's perogative, not yours. Even if new installments are just there to draw in the cash (of course, so was the original. The point is to sell a product, after all), SE putting out new products already includes them into the canon until they say otherwise. This includes any and all retcons.

FANON. This is the term you need to familiarize yourself with. FANON.

I know I can't decide anything (like I mentioned, I don't work for SE). My point is,

The Compilation is indeed canon, it is made by Square Enix and therefore it is an official product.

However, retcon do not suit FFVII for reasons I have pointed out several times by now, and so some people separate FFVII into two different versions.

There is a FFVII prior to The Compilation and because of the obvious differences, The Compilation can't be canon when considered alongside the original game. That's why people have a choice whether to consider The Compilation canon or not. That isn't fanon. It would be fanon if I removed The Compilation and told you it didn't exist. I say we have a choice.

And your one example of the "errors" in the game isn't an error. Kadaj was shinentai. It makes sense for him to burst into lifestream as he loses cohesion.

The case with Kadaj is widely different from the case of Grimoire Valentine, don't you think?

[The Crystal]

I know I can't decide anything (like I mentioned, I don't work for SE). My point is,

The Compilation is indeed canon, it is made by Square Enix and therefore it is an official product.

However, retcon do not suit FFVII for reasons I have pointed out several times by now, and so some people separate FFVII into two different versions.

There is a FFVII prior to The Compilation and because of the obvious differences, The Compilation can't be canon when considered alongside the original game. That's why people have a choice whether to consider The Compilation canon or not. That isn't fanon. It would be fanon if I removed The Compilation and told you it didn't exist. I say we have a choice.

The case with Kadaj is widely different from the case of Grimoire Valentine, don't you think?

A retcon is when the creators say "What you remember of that scene, never happened. This is what truly happened in that part of the story". And we don't have any choice but accept it. I mean, if the creators could erase our memory of the original scene they would do that, because this is what they want. They want us to completely forget the original scene, and only accept the new one. This is what a retcon is.

Now, saying that Cloud threw Sephiroth in the Mako, is the same thing as saying that Cloud jumped in it, because both of these scenes never happened in canon. What you have to do now, is forget the old scenes because they don't exist anymore. Of course that you can belive in them, inside of your head, but bringing them to a forum like they are facts, is not a good idea anymore.
Just... Forget them.

And don't argue with Ryushikaze. The guy don't have any moral to accuse you of ignoring the facts, when he do the exact same thing.

[Mirage]

The original FF7 was made just to generate profit. What were your other arguments, again?

The corrections and clarifications of the original plot that were mentioned in the compilation aren't opinions, they are facts.

You could compare it to God coming down to us and telling us which parts of the Bible are bullcrap and which aren't (or better yet, how the world actually works). In the FF7 universe, S-E is God.

[Charcoal]

Some of you give me the impression of being "blinded" because you don't see how The Compilation - an official product of Square Enix - can be wrong. I've stated many times now how FFVII is separated in two different versions, one official and one canon.

To put it another way, there are two types of "canon" here. Those who accept The Compilation, if that is what you prefer, then good, The Compilation is official and thereby canon based on that but nothing more. And if you don't accept The Compilation, the 1997 FFVII isn't erased because The Compilation is around, the game was never unfinished, it was a complete story on it's own.

So it depends on how you see it.

The original FF7 was made just to generate profit. What were your other arguments, again?

... are some of you REALLY having trouble finding meaning in that argument? Well if so - SE is milking the whole thing, get it ?

[Mirage]

It would be great if you were right, but you aren't. That's not meant as a joke or sarcasm either.

[Charcoal]

It would be great if you were right, but you aren't. That's not meant as a joke or sarcasm either.

Alright but why ?

[Zeromus_X]

To put it another way, there are two types of "canon" here. Those who accept The Compilation, if that is what you prefer, then good, The Compilation is official and thereby canon based on that but nothing more. And if you don't accept The Compilation, the 1997 FFVII isn't erased because The Compilation is around, the game was never unfinished, it was a complete story on it's own.

I don't understand this. There is only one canon, and that is the canon that SE has established.

[Mirage]

Because, as I said, S-E is in full control over what has happened, happens, and will happen in the FF7 universe. As I said, they're Gods there.

[Charcoal]

I don't understand this. There is only one canon, and that is the canon that SE has established.

Then I'll try explaining it further .

The Compilation SE established is canon because it is official. However, it's also retcon. The problem with that is FFVII was a finished story already. It was tough to decipher and so SE used the opportunity to milk the whole concept. If you like The Compilation, then stick with that. After all it is official and so, canon based on that. However if you want a FFVII without the retcon and plot holes you don't need to accept The Compilation, because FFVII was never unfinished. The Compilation was never part of FFVII in the first place; it's just there to reel in, nothing more.

Because, as I said, S-E is in full control over what has happened, happens, and will happen in the FF7 universe. As I said, they're Gods there.

Yes they are the gods of the FFVII universe. They can't redo every copy of FFVII they have released however (maybe not 100 % Gods then ?), and so we still got the original plot in addition to The Compilation plot. So every player can decide for themselves what FFVII they wanna stick to .

[Mirage]

They can't redo every copy because they aren't gods of our universe. If FF7 was a PC game, they would probably have released a translation patch though. In the compilation they're correcting things that weren't properly translated or portrayed in the original game, and specifying particular "dodgy" events in the main game.

[Ryushikaze]

I know I can't decide anything (like I mentioned, I don't work for SE).

CONCESSION ACCEPTED.

My point is,

No. You have already invalidated your argument. STOP TALKING.

The Compilation is indeed canon, it is made by Square Enix and therefore it is an official product.

However, retcon do not suit FFVII for reasons I have pointed out several times by now, and so some people separate FFVII into two different versions.

Which they cannot do, not being SE, and thus not having the power to do.

There is a FFVII prior to The Compilation and because of the obvious differences, The Compilation can't be canon when considered alongside the original game.

YES IT CAN.

That's why people have a choice whether to consider The Compilation canon or not. That isn't fanon. It would be fanon if I removed The Compilation and told you it didn't exist. I say we have a choice.

No. Fanon is you saying there is a choice. THERE ISN'T.

The case with Kadaj is widely different from the case of Grimoire Valentine, don't you think?

And since their cases are different, one should not expect their situations to be perfectly alike.

And don't argue with Ryushikaze. The guy don't have any moral to accuse you of ignoring the facts, when he do the exact same thing.

Oh, get over yourself and your Sephiwank. He has never demonstrated the powers you claim he had, and if he had the powers you claim he had, he would have never needed to do the things he did.

In other words, by insisting that Sephy can do what you claim he can do, you turn the man into A COMPLETE MORON by the fact that he doesn't use them.
Oh, and Kuja destroyed Terra. He's in the process thereof and the party echoes that he did as they leave.

The Compilation SE established is canon because it is official. However, it's also retcon. The problem with that is FFVII was a finished story already.

So was Star Wars Episode IV. Lucas still retconned it. We don't get to decide which version of 4 is the "one true version". George says "This one is", and we have to go "Okay, then...".

It was tough to decipher and so SE used the opportunity to milk the whole concept.

They are a for profit company.

If you like The Compilation, then stick with that. After all it is official and so, canon based on that. However if you want a FFVII without the retcon and plot holes you don't need to accept The Compilation, because FFVII was never unfinished.

Argument boiled down to simple statements: Because FF7 was complete, you don't have to accept the compilation. This is a non sequitor.

The Compilation was never part of FFVII in the first place; it's just there to reel in, nothing more.

The purpose of FFVII was to reel in money. SE sells us a product. That's expected.

Yes they are the gods of the FFVII universe. They can't redo every copy of FFVII they have released however (maybe not 100 % Gods then :jokey: ?), and so we still got the original plot in addition to The Compilation plot. So every player can decide for themselves what FFVII they wanna stick to :D .

But this does NOT mean that they can decide what is and is not part of the story. You can ignore all sorts of the story and make up random crap like Cloud and Aerith having spirit sex on the side of the highway. People do. However, and this is the important part, THIS HAS NO BEARING ON THE CANON. These people have created their own FANON, and that's what you've been blathering on about for two pages now.