Two things paul
1- The same team worked on most of the compilation as FF7
2- Yes, we do have to consider it canon because they do. They own the series. They dictate their canon policy.
Two things paul
1- The same team worked on most of the compilation as FF7
2- Yes, we do have to consider it canon because they do. They own the series. They dictate their canon policy.
i'm sure it's not the exact same team. and there's still a time gap which smurfs with the continuity.
anyway it may technically be considered canon, since they own the story. and i'm loathe to disagree with this point, but i'm afraid i have to. you can't take a really great book, then piss and vomit all over it 10 years later, and go "HEY I WROTE THE ORIGINAL, SO THIS PISS AND VOMIT IS CANON"
you can't do that. common sense has to step in somewhere and say "Look, piss and vomit do not fit here. i don't care that you own it. this is not right"
i can see a better world for all of us...
Except you can. If you own the universe and you own the characters, you can do whatever the hell you want with them and it's canon. That is the definition of the word canon. Now, whether it's good quality is a different argument all together.Originally Posted by Paul
Hey, if you want to ignore the Compilation then that's all right. If it works for you then you can take FFVII to be the whole story and that's legitimate. In your head. But as soon as you start arguing theories with other people then the Compilation supercedes your own interpretation of the universe and you won't be able to argue with anything that directly contradicts the Compilation. You can believe any theories you want that ignore the Compilation, but you will never be able to get others to agree with you. And if that's cool with you, then knock yourself out.
Also, Ryu? Frakking awesome, dude.
If you truly believe that there is not proof for either side, then don't believe either of them. Abstain judgement until the evidence is enough in your opinion. That's what someone who's looking for the truth really does. If there's no substantial evidence either direction, then you must remain neutral until that evidence is unearthed. Of course, I expect what you really meant by this was, "I can have whatever opinion I want because Square hasn't said that the possibility wasn't there and you can't call it wrong 'cause there's no evidence on your side either." That's not quite how it works, but if you want to go and spout your theories like they're fact when the people who accept the Compilation as canon know that the Compilation says differently, you can't expect us to actually believe them or even consider them the least bit credible. That's the sacrifice you're making by "ignoring" the Compilation.
better arguments? you just said i should indeed cover my ears, close my eyes, and envision last order in my head when that scene comes up.
no thanks. the scene in the game is more entertaining than envisioning an alternative event.
i'd imagine your experience when you play FFVII now must really suck - constantly turning away from your screen shouting "NO! I Refuse to accept this!"
because the truth is, if im supposed to take all the retcons into account, a considerable amount of the game no longer makes sense.
this all doesn't change the fact that all of this is irrelevant to what the game depicts and suggests - and that is not going to change until the remake.
but the compilation contradicts the game!! so what if i come up with a theory that doesn't contradict the game, but contradicts the compilation (which wasn't really thought about much, big dollar signs gettin in the way of the design team, stoppin them from workin properly... )Hey, if you want to ignore the Compilation then that's all right. If it works for you then you can take FFVII to be the whole story and that's legitimate. In your head. But as soon as you start arguing theories with other people then the Compilation supercedes your own interpretation of the universe and you won't be able to argue with anything that directly contradicts the Compilation. You can believe any theories you want that ignore the Compilation, but you will never be able to get others to agree with you.
plus, i mean surely any self respecting fan of FF7 rejects the compilation? i mean maybe some don't, but surely those are the exception rather than the rule.
surely the rule is still that FF7 the game is the final word? don't tell me the opposite is true... i couldn't live in such a sick, sick world.
If you cannot live in such a sick world, then kill yourself. Because this is the way the world is, you liking it or not.
It doesn't mater if it make sense or don't, and it doesn't mater if some parts of the Comp. contradict the game. It's still canon/official. You can say that the story is crap, or is full of plot-holes, or etc. But you cannot say it isn't canon, because you don't have the authority to decide this.
The Compilation is being created by the same people that made FFVII, so it is canon. You, Charcoal, Bolivar, Ryushikaze, etc. can cover your ears and go "lalalala i'm not hearing you!!" all you want, and it will not change anything. You guys don't work for SE and you didn't create FFVII, so what all of you think and belive about the story is not important, sorry.
Um, I believe Ryushikaze is arguing the same thing as you, my dear.
everything is wrapped in gray
i'm focusing on your image
can you hear me in the void?
You were the one who asked if you should. And technically, you should. Since the LO version is now official.
Then enjoy that version, and watch it. But know that it is no longer how that scene plays out according to the people who made the game.no thanks. the scene in the game is more entertaining than envisioning an alternative event.
Even were I required to do that, I only have to do it once. And child, stop really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking.ning me. That is not my position. Nor has it ever been.i'd imagine your experience when you play FFVII now must really suck - constantly turning away from your screen shouting "NO! I Refuse to accept this!"
I'm sure you wouldn't be opposed to explaining what portions of the game are rendered asensical by the compilation, then.because the truth is, if im supposed to take all the retcons into account, a considerable amount of the game no longer makes sense.
And this is a red herring. The game can depict a thing all it likes. If that thing has been retconned, then the retcon now stands as the way it happened.this all doesn't change the fact that all of this is irrelevant to what the game depicts and suggests - and that is not going to change until the remake.
Then your theory contradicts the storyline of FF7 as it stands, since the compilations are a canon portion of the story.
And what are you basing this conclusion on, good sir? I'm most curious.plus, i mean surely any self respecting fan of FF7 rejects the compilation? i mean maybe some don't, but surely those are the exception rather than the rule.
The opposite is true. Newer overrides older. Unless S-E released a statement to the effect that the older is true, and even then it would still be a case of the newer official stance overriding the older, save that in this case, the newest stance would in fact be a return to the older stance, if that makes any sense to you.surely the rule is still that FF7 the game is the final word? don't tell me the opposite is true... i couldn't live in such a sick, sick world.
Speaking of someone covering their ears...
Crystal is still upset about the thread in which I disagreed with his unsupported claim that Sephiroth had the powers of Omega, among other bad blood.
Yes, he is. But like Charcoal, Bolivar and the others, exist some facts in the Compilation that he choosed to ignore just because he don't like them.
No. There exist some claims you have never supported. I accept Sephypoo is the strongest villain. This does not mean he has every single power every other foe in the compilation.Yes, he is. But like Charcoal, Bolivar and the others, exist some facts in the Compilation that he choosed to ignore just because he don't like them.
There are also several other claims that you've made that I'd be perfectly willing to accept if you could provide evidence of their veracity. Without evidence, they are nothing, and so I treat them as such.
k i understand now
basically square know their market perfectly. here's me, thinkin' FF7 was something genuinely great. 10 years later see some souless obvious cash in sequels appear. i can see the purpose of them (to make money) so i'm not particularly bothered... but i still assume the fanbase will be smart enough to see it for what it is (bad).
to my horror, i find in fact i am in a minority, and square in fact knows its fanbase much better than i do! it's fan base would love every FF game to be like X-2. they cry as they listen to eyes on me while writing aeris revival fanfiction.
Your strawmen and ad homs aside, that doesn't exactly address or rebut anything above. Concession accepted until you decide to return to the discussion at hand.
And I'll say it again. FF7 was released to make money too. All FFs were.
of course it was, but with AC we're in strictly 'cash-in' territory. everyone with half a brain knows that the FF games are best without sequels. they're stand alone pieces of fiction and to expand upon them afterwards is to undermine them. i can appreciate that square don't care for their repuation if the cheques keep coming in. i can't appreciate that the fans enjoy the series beingon for a profit that they won't see any of. honestly, i expected better from you guys.
hope u all realise every time i debate FF7 from now on, i'm gonna be completely disregarding the compilation. anyone wishing to establish themselves as having posts worth reading, is welcome to do the same.
And herein is revealed the fatal flaw in your plan. We don't care what you think. Your opinion is, to be frank, meaningless.
Opinion is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Whether or not you like or dislike the compilation, whether you think FF games should never have sequels, or think they should have more of them is, in fact, irrelevant. None of it changes the fact that the compilation is part of the continuity.
So, please, stop trying to bombard us with emotional appeals and simply stick with the objective data. It can only improve your credibility.
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