So I just finished and I am a little confused... (WHOLE THREAD IS SPOILER)

[Renmiri]

Vayne...ends on a bad note and it is one of the few story issues I do have with the game. I think if he had gone the way I thought he was going (doing this all for Larsa's sake) then he could have been one of the defining villains in the series.

Agreed 100%

You've obviously never finished the Fafnir hunt as it gives closure to that plot thread
I did. What happened there that closed the thread ? The Viera liking humans more ?

Remeber, she takes over the temple and begins helping the refugees who in turn inspires the people to finally move on with their lives and work towards restoring the temple and the order... Besides, the music in the temple changes back to it's original theme signifying a transformation of the location.

You have gotta be kidding me! All the inferences you make are way above what is there The entire soundtrack sounds the same to me for starters. I did not notice the soundtrack change, I doubt most did.

when Larsa assumed the leadership of the empire the first thing he did was make it right, right ? NOPE.
We don't know that for certain, remember, a year passed after the ending so god only knows what the political spectrum may look like at this point.

Precisely. Like above and in countless examples, you are filling in the blanks with YOUR creativity and talent. The game writers shirked their duty

On X, all the players from both Blitz teams stop what they are doing to help rebuild the town. Also, Tidus narration says "As long as Sin exists Yuna will keep dancing" (i.e. people will keep dying) so you spend the entire game "Avenging Kilika" basically.

On XII the tragedy at Bur-Omisace is completely ignored. Everyone in the game (but that Viera) acts like "sucks to be them" and does not pitch in to help. The temple and the refugees are ignored by Ashe too, which is a damn shame considering Anastasis and many others there gave their lives to buy her time to get Raithwall's sword.

I personally enjoyed the writing style of XII but it might be due to the fact it's not far from my own style.

Trust me on that, by the little I've seen here you write much better than those folks

[JonyH]

You've obviously never finished the Fafnir hunt as it gives closure to that plot thread
I did. What happened there that closed the thread ? The Viera liking humans more ?

Remeber, she takes over the temple and begins helping the refugees who in turn inspires the people to finally move on with their lives and work towards restoring the temple and the order... Besides, the music in the temple changes back to it's original theme signifying a transformation of the location.

You have gotta be kidding me! All the inferences you make are way above what is there The entire soundtrack sounds the same to me for starters. I did not notice the soundtrack change, I doubt most did.

I noticed, I don't know how you didn't. The music was very quiet and tense until completing the fafnir hunt. Upon completion, the music changes to the music you first hear on mt. bur-omisace, and it sounds triumphant or at least holy/worship style.

Agreeing with Wolf Kanno's point, everything wraps up nicely after fafnir. Just like the way you only understand the moogles after defeating Yiazmat, I love the fact that the side-quests pursue the storyline!

[Wolf Kanno]

Vayne...ends on a bad note and it is one of the few story issues I do have with the game. I think if he had gone the way I thought he was going (doing this all for Larsa's sake) then he could have been one of the defining villains in the series.

Agreed 100%

Glad to make you happy

You've obviously never finished the Fafnir hunt as it gives closure to that plot thread
I did. What happened there that closed the thread ? The Viera liking humans more ?

Remeber, she takes over the temple and begins helping the refugees who in turn inspires the people to finally move on with their lives and work towards restoring the temple and the order... Besides, the music in the temple changes back to it's original theme signifying a transformation of the location.

You have gotta be kidding me! All the inferences you make are way above what is there The entire soundtrack sounds the same to me for starters. I did not notice the soundtrack change, I doubt most did.

Check again dear. I doubt you noticed the music change since you've already admited in another thread that you listen to the FFX soundtrack while playing instead of the original soundtrack so it doesn't surprise me you noticed. Also go back and actually talk to all the NPCs and you'll see I am right, I get the feeling you only spoke to the Viera and ignored everyone else .

I didn't make any interference as JonyH confirms it. You just weren't paying attention dear.

when Larsa assumed the leadership of the empire the first thing he did was make it right, right ? NOPE.
We don't know that for certain, remember, a year passed after the ending so god only knows what the political spectrum may look like at this point.

Precisely. Like above and in countless examples, you are filling in the blanks with YOUR creativity and talent. The game writers shirked their duty

On X, all the players from both Blitz teams stop what they are doing to help rebuild the town. Also, Tidus narration says "As long as Sin exists Yuna will keep dancing" (i.e. people will keep dying) so you spend the entire game "Avenging Kilika" basically.

On XII the tragedy at Bur-Omisace is completely ignored. Everyone in the game (but that Viera) acts like "sucks to be them" and does not pitch in to help. The temple and the refugees are ignored by Ashe too, which is a damn shame considering Anastasis and many others there gave their lives to buy her time to get Raithwall's sword.

First off, your proof of "caring" happens like 5 minutes after the town is destroyed, second, the game only mentions Kilikia one more time during the blitz tournament (shudders...) and like XII, the game ignores it and most of the citizens act like nothing happened there and continue whining about Sin needing to be destroyed by the summoners...

Now look at this situation logically. The world is walking on eggshells due to the threat of the rebels fighting the empire. Worst case scenario is the idea that Rozarrio may take advantage of the situation and get involved meaning the whole area will be plunged into a massive war.

A neutral territory is attacked by the Archadians. Nalbina and Dalmasca cannot help as they are now part of the Archadian empire and have been stripped of any form of authority and power. Archadia won't do anything cause they were the ones that attacked it. Rozzario can't do anything cause one quick glance of the map shows that the temple is located on the backdoor of the Archadian Empire and the Archadians can exploit the situation as a sign of aggression. Throw in the fact that Mt. Burimasce is more of a regional influence as oppsed to a world power like the Catholic church and you can see why the empires have little interest in it.

Throw in the fact that a lot of those people who are "ignoring" their plight mention that the area is dangerous and who knows when Archades will attack again since the public doesn't know the real reason for the attack.

And how does Lady Ashe ignore it? You act like she has some form of influence in the game. Remember half the games plot is her trying to prove she's actually the real Lady Ashe. If she does reveal herself publicly; the rebels, with Rozarrio's aid, will attack the Archadians placing everyone into the worst case scenario.

It all comes down to the game not specifically saying it was addressed while on the other hand, the game follows a certain type of logic that dictates otherwise as well as giving some evidence on the contrary (Fafnir Hunt). You say "the game doesn't say anything! Bad writing!" and I'm saying "The game gives enough logical evidence to say something happened, it's good writing!". I mean damn, this is starting to become like a debate with an atheist on the subject of the existence of a god:rolleyes2

I personally enjoyed the writing style of XII but it might be due to the fact it's not far from my own style.

Trust me on that, by the little I've seen here you write much better than those folks

[/quote]


Thank you, though I'm certain you would change your mind if you read any of my work.

[Renmiri]

I did read the villains thread and was favorably impressed.

But you are right, I don't think we will be able to convince each other that our faith is more holy our favorite games are well written.

How about we make a truce and go debate other people on other stuff ?

[Wolf Kanno]

I did read the villains thread and was favorably impressed.

But you are right, I don't think we will be able to convince each other that our faith is more holy our favorite games are well written.

How about we make a truce and go debate other people on other stuff ?

Agreed but what to debate?

[Renmiri]

Not X!!!

[Wolf Kanno]

Not X!!!

Now you know I don't start stuff in other people's forums.

That leaves our options quite limited...

[Renmiri]

Hihi! I'm sure we will find something to fight disagree over soon. FFXIII for instance

[Setzer Gabianni]

So did Renmiri get owned again? 8D

[Shattered Dreamer]

So did Renmiri get owned again? 8D

I thought slavery was abolished years ago? Seems I was wrong

[Renmiri]

pwned not owned

And NEVER!!!! I'll deny it till I die.

[Wolf Kanno]

So did Renmiri get owned again? 8D

I'm saying it's a "draw" since most of this argument comes down to personal taste and preferences. That and we've argued these same points since November of last year. I'm surprised we still both have any fight left in us

[Renmiri]

Not really... We nailed it down to personal taste pretty much now.

But WK taught me a whole different way to see XII

[-N-]

So I just finished the game and read through the story debate and I had this great long post but of course it got deleted. So forgive me for being terse.

This game was the best experience of the entire Final Fantasy series, and I've been there for every single installment. I think the introduction of MMO elements threw some people for a loop that they didn't like. This includes the idea of fully experiencing the story through extensive gameplay exploration rather than following a series of chained events.

Yes, if you follow the main plot events in the story you end up with a fairly straightforward plot: rebel against the evil Empire. What you miss are so many of the elements that people seem to be complaining about. What you get when you explore the game in full is what makes a simple story rich in detail. Someone mentioned reading the pillars in Pharos and I think that is a prime example. Bestiary entries and mark-hunts also make the history of Ivalice more colorful and that is what brings this otherwise plain story to life.

Of course, that means you have to play the game. God forbid should you explore the multiverse SE has spent ages to create with one of the most engaging battle engines ever. God forbid should SE remind you they make videogames, not movies with a fancy controller like Xenosaga. Gameplay in XII is deliciously intertwined with the story, and how much story you see is directly related with how much effort you put in the game.

I think this ends up being a clear slap in the face to anybody who thinks they can talk about story and gameplay in a video game separately (MONOLITHSOFT). Perhaps we can thank Sakaguchi for this: Thank you for leaving the series and making room for a more integrated gaming experience. Thank you for leaving the series and not putting so much emphasis on the game being a linear experience of your storyline ideas. And of course, thank you for the amazing games you have delivered in the past. I'm not that irreverent.

XII is, at heart, an amazingly successful effort to "catch up" (I put it in quotes because I'm not sure who's really catching up to whom at times) to other storytelling media without turning its fans into MMO zombies. The popular TV show "Heroes" did not present its story in full in its episodes; other critical story aspects like character background and motivation (sound familiar?) were released in the form of interactive websites and comic books for viewers to actively explore the Heroes world. The creators of "The Matrix" pioneered this somewhat by creating a set of movies, a videogame, a series of short animations, and releasing philosophical essays on their website. Some consider it gimmicky; I consider it a more thorough presentation of a world that is too rich to be presented in just one medium. Final Fantasy XII embodied and internalized these ideas.

So while I haven't really endorsed a particular position, I am offering an explanation as to why people feel left with an incomplete experience after completing the game, or why they might feel the story was inadequately presented, or why they are complete turds. Pick the one that applies to you, if you apply to this. If not, well congratulations! I am not repulsed by you.

[Wolf Kanno]

OMG

Someone actually gets it. Though I don't completely agree with all your post but overall you hit my sentiments of the game pretty accurately.