So I just finished and I am a little confused... (WHOLE THREAD IS SPOILER)

[Renmiri]

Vayne is an anti-hero, and we do not know his full story arc, because this is the middle installment of the story.

Aha! I knew I could smell the "You will have to buy the sequel" on XII.

I just hate those movies / games made to sell a trilogy. Very few nowadays bother to do it right, i.e. make each individual installment stand on it's own.

[Bashini]

Aha! I knew I could smell the "You will have to buy the sequel" on XII.

I just hate those movies / games made to sell a trilogy. Very few nowadays bother to do it right, i.e. make each individual installment stand on it's own.

If the game could stand on its own they would not bother producing a trilogy or a series.

My problem with the release of XII is that they are telling the story inside out (middle-end-beginning). Although I found it fairly easy to follow I do not think the majority of gamers agree and would have stomached it better if it were told in order.

[Bolivar]

So while I haven't really endorsed a particular position, I am offering an explanation as to why people feel left with an incomplete experience after completing the game, or why they might feel the story was inadequately presented, or why they are complete turds. Pick the one that applies to you, if you apply to this. If not, well congratulations! I am not repulsed by you.

While I agree in spirit, i have to think your argument is actually very backwards. It was becasue of the amount of effort I put into the game that really ruined the story for me. Spending time exploring, talking to townspeople, uncovering the backstory of the game, completing mark hunts, killing rare game, all of that took so much dedication that it made the story seem alot smaller and alot simpler than it really is.

Every hour that I put into this game, I could see my interest in the story diminish more and more. And I played 104 hours, so you figure it out.

I've also seen comments that the fleshed out backstory in XII is actually a progression from previous games. To me, XII's storytelling is actually a huge step BACK from the progress made in VII-X. Like movies and short stories, the plot and backstory has been developed by the action and the dialogue between characters.

Imagine a movie where the action suddenly stops and a man in a suit comes out to explain what's going on. It would expose the inadequacy of a director, and this is exactly what happens in XII with Omdore's diary readings. Not to mention that traditionally, Final Fantasy has been Apocalyptic/Post-Apocalyptic fiction. Not only is the story of this game confined to one region in the world, it's restricted to one region within Ivalice.

And Renmiri, good to know i wasn't the only one who saw the possibilities for a sequel (beyond RW).

I really think since Basch is now the Head Judge In Charge over in Archades, that when Vaan matures past his whole sky pirate adolescent phase, he's going to become Ashe's knight/judge, and the two sides are going to clash.

All for the buildup to a scene on a bridge/balcony where Basch, in his helmeted glory, spills the beans "VAAN, I AM YOUR FATHER", since this game already ripped off star wars enough as it is

[Renmiri]

If the game could stand on its own they would not bother producing a trilogy or a series.

Then charge 1/3 of the price!

Renmiri, good to know i wasn't the only one who saw the possibilities for a sequel (beyond RW).

... the two sides are going to clash...

All for the buildup to a scene on a bridge/balcony where Basch, in his helmeted glory, spills the beans "VAAN, I AM YOUR FATHER"...

That would be as cheesy as some scenes in XII

I have nothing against a game having a sequel, provided they don't split a story in half and sell it as a full product.

Seriously, this is cheating IMHO. Make a damn good game and you will have your sequels. Star Wars was a middle of the story movie and was great. Pirates of The Caribbean got 3 movies but the first was excellent.

Now on XII you get to the end and you get hit with scenes that basically spell out: "You've been punked!!! To know / see the end you will have to buy the sequel"

[Bashini]

Or they could do a ten year project and charge triple the price:rolleyes2

Films make poor examples since they have anywhere from 2-3.5hrs to tell a contiguous story without having to worry about human interfaces. Also Star Wars has a fairly familiar and simplistic plot, so George Lucas got away with telling the story in an unconventional way to the masses.

Another reason to tell this story in the inside out fashion it has been presented in, is to shift the focus of the audience away from the true happenings of the plot. This style of writing is not uncommon in classic literature.

[Wolf Kanno]

Aha! I knew I could smell the "You will have to buy the sequel" on XII.

I just hate those movies / games made to sell a trilogy. Very few nowadays bother to do it right, i.e. make each individual installment stand on it's own.

If the game could stand on its own they would not bother producing a trilogy or a series.

My problem with the release of XII is that they are telling the story inside out (middle-end-beginning). Although I found it fairly easy to follow I do not think the majority of gamers agree and would have stomached it better if it were told in order.

Well this is news to me... I know about Revnant Wings and I know that Tactics takes place a thousand years later but I hardly see how this makes it a trilogy. RW looks to be a stand alone game with only the main party and Larsa making a return. And Tactics has little to do with XII with only the Lucavi really connecting them together (Well until FFT:The Lion War gets released:rolleyes2 ). So is there another game I'm unaware of?

So while I haven't really endorsed a particular position, I am offering an explanation as to why people feel left with an incomplete experience after completing the game, or why they might feel the story was inadequately presented, or why they are complete turds. Pick the one that applies to you, if you apply to this. If not, well congratulations! I am not repulsed by you.

While I agree in spirit, i have to think your argument is actually very backwards. It was becasue of the amount of effort I put into the game that really ruined the story for me. Spending time exploring, talking to townspeople, uncovering the backstory of the game, completing mark hunts, killing rare game, all of that took so much dedication that it made the story seem alot smaller and alot simpler than it really is.

Every hour that I put into this game, I could see my interest in the story diminish more and more. And I played 104 hours, so you figure it out.

I've also seen comments that the fleshed out backstory in XII is actually a progression from previous games. To me, XII's storytelling is actually a huge step BACK from the progress made in VII-X. Like movies and short stories, the plot and backstory has been developed by the action and the dialogue between characters.

Imagine a movie where the action suddenly stops and a man in a suit comes out to explain what's going on. It would expose the inadequacy of a director, and this is exactly what happens in XII with Omdore's diary readings. Not to mention that traditionally, Final Fantasy has been Apocalyptic/Post-Apocalyptic fiction. Not only is the story of this game confined to one region in the world, it's restricted to one region within Ivalice.

I'm in agreement with Bashini on the idea of thinking of RPG's (or even just FF plots) on being like movies. Movies are nothing more than storytelling for people with ADD and they still complain they are too long FF is more like a novel or a consistant story in a TV series. It unfolds slowly and the satisfaction comes from watching it carefully and consistently to capture all the subtle nuances of the characters and story.

Movies (especially most of the trite that comes out of Hollywood these days) are 90 minutes of special effects and bad acting trying to convince you that they are relevant. (And I agree that the first Pirates was the best Renmiri while the other two were... wasted potential)

I disagree that the storytelling in the last few FF's have been all that good. Some are down right terrible (I don't have to mention which one I feel is the worse, do I Renmiri? ) They have slowly began to suffer from the same faults that the movie industry suffers from. Pretentious and utterly meaningless dialogue, ridiculous plots, and horrible displays of human interaction that makes daytime soap opera look like Oscar material. The only thing they have going for them is visuals and I don't know about most people here, but I kinda feel that's a rip off.

Ashe was the last character I actually was interested in from a story and character stand point. Vivi was the last character I probably cared for and the last storyline that I didn't stop in the middle of and say in disgust "Good lord this is smurfing ridiculous!!" was probably Tactics. I think RPG's should take advantage of the interactivity of it's medium and take storytelling into a different direction. Some games are already starting to do this, SE needs to take the hint...

Also, I think the idea of focusing on a small area was a good move. The game didn't devolve merely into a "save the world" nonsense that plagues this genre. It was about protecting what is most important to the characters. The impact is greater cause you realize that this isn't affecting the world, it's only about you and the characters. The world doesn't care what happens to Dalmasca... just like the real world doesn't care about the little countries that get squashed every day today. It's that sense of realism that makes the parties plight that more realistic (well as realistic as an FF gets:rolleyes2 )

But this is all just my :twocents: