What World? There's no Timeline, shut up.

[Wolf Kanno]

X-2 has the ending that fans whined about after finishing FFX. If anything, Last Order seems to have been created to finally explain some issues people had with the story so perhaps it isn't a total waste.
I don't feel any game in the series really needed a sequel, and I can easily resist the temptation of needing a prequel cause most of the games explain it well enough.

Agreed. Agreed.
Yeah, but anyway, I'm more a fan of game prequels than any sequels myself. I've always wondered why more games don't extend into the past rather than into the future.

Face it people... the original Light Warriors are trapped in a time loop.

There's one I don't like. I think the idea of a timeloop is just a ridiculous cop-out. The creators of the first game couldn't think of where the Light Warriors really came from and then couldn't think of a real ending, so they're in a timeloop. Niiice.

The problem with prequels is that sometimes the writer's forget basic things and end up creating some weird inconsistencies between the stories. I have a weird feeling that Crisis Core is going to do that to FFVII.

Zelda seems to always be a prequel to the last title in the series. Hell the games have major inconsistencies so it's almost a safe bet to say that most of the games are self-contained and their is no timeline at all.

As for the Light Warriors... I actually like the time loop ending. For it's time it was rather original and it was a major contrast from DQ1 and 2's "they live happily ever after" endings. Now it seems pretty stupid but I thought it was creative for it's time.

[Mercen-X]

The problem with prequels is that sometimes the writer's forget basic things and end up creating some weird inconsistencies between the stories.

As for the Light Warriors... I actually like the time loop ending. For it's time it was rather original and it was a major contrast from DQ1 and 2's "they live happily ever after" endings. Now it seems pretty stupid but I thought it was creative for it's time.

Yeah, I haven't played Valkyrie Profile yet (with Lenneth) and I'm like half-way through Silmeria. It would suck to play the original VP and see/hear things that shouldn't be there or things that are missing.
As to Zelda . . . definitely an inconsistent series.

Yeah, for its time. I mostly brought it up because I hate how the anime Wolf's Rain ended the same way. It's a tactless attempt to keep fanboys at bay who are brought to full-on rampages when they don't get sequels or other such continuations. Definitely useful, but tactless nonetheless.

Anyway, one of my primary questions still has gone unanswered:

Also, heya, if Squee made a game that anyone would recognize as being a summary of the events of all games Final Fantasy (of course, knowing Squee, it'd be done properly with new faces, new tech, and no character references except maybe a Sid), would you bother playing it?

[Wolf Kanno]

The problem with prequels is that sometimes the writer's forget basic things and end up creating some weird inconsistencies between the stories.

As for the Light Warriors... I actually like the time loop ending. For it's time it was rather original and it was a major contrast from DQ1 and 2's "they live happily ever after" endings. Now it seems pretty stupid but I thought it was creative for it's time.

Yeah, I haven't played Valkyrie Profile yet (with Lenneth) and I'm like half-way through Silmeria. It would suck to play the original VP and see/hear things that shouldn't be there or things that are missing.
As to Zelda . . . definitely an inconsistent series.

Yeah, for its time. I mostly brought it up because I hate how the anime Wolf's Rain ended the same way. It's a tactless attempt to keep fanboys at bay who are brought to full-on rampages when they don't get sequels or other such continuations. Definitely useful, but tactless nonetheless.

Welcome to Buddhist thought. Alot of series dwell on the Buddhist concept of death and rebirth, it never surprises me anymore to see it.

Also, heya, if Squee made a game that anyone would recognize as being a summary of the events of all games Final Fantasy (of course, knowing Squee, it'd be done properly with new faces, new tech, and no character references except maybe a Sid), would you bother playing it?

Alright, I'll give my take on this.

No, even if it came with a bottle of aspirin to help the migraine that will be caused by the convulated bull that is going to be the "FF Connection Theory". Honestly, I would like to think Squeenix was smart enough to realize that trying to connect them all together will never work. As far as I see it, they have only four options that can connect the worlds together:

1) Same world but the games storylines are separated by spans of eons.

2) Same universe but each story takes place on different worlds

3) Same world but alternate timelines.

4) Some odd combination of the first three choices.

Now I'm going to assume that your question is regarding the third or fourth options since they will have the least amount of inconsistencies. I guess it depends really, I would probably play it if I didn't know the point of the game was to be the that it connects them all. If it slipped out that it was, I would probably only play it out of morbid curiosity.

If the game tried to connect them using the third option, it wouldn't be so bad as long as the whole connected thing ended with that game. No future crossovers or anything. Just say it so certain fans would stop whining and then don't go into it ever again to make the rest of us stop whining. I would still be angry at the idea that Sqeenix was thinking of doing possible crossovers that actually have some bearing on their respected FF worlds though.

I don't mind how KH is using the FF guest stars as long as the event in KH don't become canon in the FF games. Last thing I need to see is that KH1 takes place after FFVII:AC.

[Mercen-X]

All right, we'll sum it up this way:

A Final Fantasy that combines all the greatest features, abilities, creatures, summons, character profiles, weapons, and special moments.

You'd have a Sid; a bunch of cool yet inconsequential characters similar to the four light warriors, then Dark Knight Cecil, Kain, Shadow, Cloud; and villains like Kefka and Sephiroth.

There would be limits and such and most of the key moments would serve as basic reminders of historical stamps in previous Final Fantasy titles all the while never trying nor claiming to be a direct compilement of Final Fantasy history.

[DM_Melkhar]

Each Final Fantasy setting is independent to its predecessors. There is no link between them other than the makers wanting to get recognisable trademarks featured in the games.*

* There is an exception regarding FFX and FFVII due to some tosser who is also one of the story writers or something named Nojima who claimed to have made FFX a prequel to FFVII. This is debatable though.

There IS a link between VII and X/X-2 though. I had mentioned it somewhere else on this forum, and someone DID confirm it but they hated the reference/connection as I recall.

Ah yes, it's here: Final Fantasy X-2 Ultimania FAQ - IGN FAQs

[black orb]

>>> FF1 and FF9 have lots of things in common too..

[Wolf Kanno]

All right, we'll sum it up this way:

A Final Fantasy that combines all the greatest features, abilities, creatures, summons, character profiles, weapons, and special moments.

You'd have a Sid; a bunch of cool yet inconsequential characters similar to the four light warriors, then Dark Knight Cecil, Kain, Shadow, Cloud; and villains like Kefka and Sephiroth.

There would be limits and such and most of the key moments would serve as basic reminders of historical stamps in previous Final Fantasy titles all the while never trying nor claiming to be a direct compilement of Final Fantasy history.

You would get something like FFIX and FFT. Both game has obvious parallels to almost every FF game released before it. Reading the Proposition and side mission reports in FFT alone mentions scenes and places that have happened throughout the series.

I'm surprised (or just haven't payed attention to the back logs of the forum) that more people haven't tried making timelines for a connection theory using FFT as the basis. To me, it's a more obvious choice even though I'm fully aware the references are "in-jokes" more than being some "connection theory".

[Mercen-X]

You would get something like FFIX and FFT. Both game has obvious parallels to almost every FF game released before it. Reading the Proposition and side mission reports in FFT alone mentions scenes and places that have happened throughout the series.

I'm surprised (or just haven't payed attention to the back logs of the forum) that more people haven't tried making timelines for a connection theory using FFT as the basis. To me, it's a more obvious choice even though I'm fully aware the references are "in-jokes" more than being some "connection theory".

OOC:	Why does the word "position" always get quoted with "< b >< b>" between the "s" and "i"?

Anyway. I think I got that IX made a few theme references (i.e. the four demons, accelerated technology in Medieval locations, interspacial connections, a crapload of familiar names), but I have yet to really play Tactics. I own it, but after having to sit through the opening, I just can't even stand to look at the cover. There's no way to speed up or skip the boring-ass thing.
Scrap the game idea. I'll come up with something less obvious and maybe a bit more entertaining.

[BG-57]

FFT is simply not as popular as the numbered FF's, so most people are not familiar with the in-jokes and references because they haven't played the game. FFT connects directly (and retroactively) to FFVII and FFXII connects (again retroactively) to FFT. And as you said, the references are just that: references.

To have all the FF's happen on the same planet would require major continental upheaval (on par with FFVI's), which is far-fetched. At any rate I think the FFT-FVII linkage suggests that they happen on separate worlds that may coexist at the same time.

[Mercen-X]

Planet: Valicia Spiralithica (has no meaning)
Timeframe: X year (does not yet matter)
Timeline: tragedy begins the year, journey begins near middle of year, evil is defeated by the end of the year
History: Blatant references to the most memorable scenes from all previous titles, references to four light warriors, names from Firion to Lightning are markers for tragedies and heroic epics throughout time, etc.
Style: None. Blend of familiar costumes from days of old. Something new may pop up somewhere.
Tragedy: the villain's hometown is destroyed by a neighboring city
Journey: must find the item of power before villain can use it for his revenge and stupidly destroy everything
KEY: a gigantic mobile fortress the villain plans to destroy innocent people with
Twist: most of the villain's lackeys are close friends and family of the traveling hero
Hero: a cocky kid soldier slashing his way to elite ranks with his gunblade in tow
Dilemma: nearly everybody hates him
Villain: a once-hated war general who for a time ran a peaceful town
Problem: luciferous . . . he is manipulative and adored by all who meet him

Mechanics: battles play like traditional Final Fantasy titles, except tactics from Dragoon, Legaia and other well-thought games are sneakily included, while special attacks appear mostly at random. More powerful LIMIT BREAKS or what have you are performed using mini-game play methods, like having a trigger finger or using the play-buttons/D-Pad to articulate an attack.

[Bolivar]

Checkin back in here, alot of interesting stuff brought up.

To answer one of your original questions Merc, yes I would play a game that involved all the FF's, as I've played every FF and major spinoff, and so far I have been satisfied with all of them (yet extremely frustrated with XII).

To have all the FF's happen on the same planet would require major continental upheaval (on par with FFVI's), which is far-fetched. At any rate I think the FFT-FVII linkage suggests that they happen on separate worlds that may coexist at the same time.

Far-fetched? You mean like the major continental upheavals that have already taken place on our planet over its vast history? In a way, that would contribute to a connection making sense, as this takes thousands of years to occur, and all catastrophic events in FF seem to take place thousands of years apart within each game, so I would imagine it would be even longer between games. Not to mention that the denizens of the FF world have been drastically changing the geology of their planets since FFI (Gnomes using TNT, the Ancients raising castles).



Back on topic, I would like to ask, if you feel the X & VII connection is far-fetched, why do you think so? One poster claimed that a whole connection being based on two characters sharing the same name is rediculous. I would agree, as that's occured in many FF's, and blatantly as references.

However, when that said character starts talking about extracting life force of those that passed from the planet, and refining it into energy, a red flag goes up.

I would also say that using space technology as the bridge between the two games is not far-fetched either, as space exploration has played a part in a number of games, and there has been in every game a group or ancient civilization obsessed with making objects fly. Space is the logical end of that line of thinking, as epitomized in Cid Highwind.

Furthermore, races traveling to other planets does not sound like bad fan fiction - it sounds like what has already happened in Final Fantasy IV, V, VII, and IX.

My idea of there being a possibility of the series being related is not that they happen one after the other, or that the story of one impacts the story of the other. I would believe that the games are still not related, but that they take place either thousands or tens of thousands of years apart, on different planets, or possibly even in different dimensions/universes. But there are alot of things, other than chocobos, moogles, and Cids that pop up in numerous games. The sky fortress, the Void, Cloud of Darkness, Ancients, dwarves, technology & magic at odds, Meteor & Holy, to name a few are specific things, some of which that are clearly not "trademarks" but staples that the characters expect to be in their world, and have been for a very long time.

P.S. Kanno, I'm still waiting for the Sakaguchi interview. You said "several"

[Ashley Schovitz]

Where are all of you getting that X and VII arte connected? I've never heard of that and it doesn't make sense when the structure of their worlds are totally different and both of them have their own sequels.

[BG-57]

Far-fetched? You mean like the major continental upheavals that have already taken place on our planet over its vast history? In a way, that would contribute to a connection making sense, as this takes thousands of years to occur, and all catastrophic events in FF seem to take place thousands of years apart within each game, so I would imagine it would be even longer between games. Not to mention that the denizens of the FF world have been drastically changing the geology of their planets since FFI (Gnomes using TNT, the Ancients raising castles).

For continental drift to explain the map changes, you'd have to allow for millions of years, not thousands. And although catastrophic rearrangement of the world map did occur in FFVI, it'd have to happen about 11 or 12 more times to account for every world map of every FF being different. Mind you, I didn't say it was impossible, just very unlikely.

Back on topic, I would like to ask, if you feel the X & VII connection is far-fetched, why do you think so? One poster claimed that a whole connection being based on two characters sharing the same name is rediculous. I would agree, as that's occured in many FF's, and blatantly as references.

However, when that said character starts talking about extracting life force of those that passed from the planet, and refining it into energy, a red flag goes up.

I would also say that using space technology as the bridge between the two games is not far-fetched either, as space exploration has played a part in a number of games, and there has been in every game a group or ancient civilization obsessed with making objects fly. Space is the logical end of that line of thinking, as epitomized in Cid Highwind.

Furthermore, races traveling to other planets does not sound like bad fan fiction - it sounds like what has already happened in Final Fantasy IV, V, VII, and IX.

My idea of there being a possibility of the series being related is not that they happen one after the other, or that the story of one impacts the story of the other. I would believe that the games are still not related, but that they take place either thousands or tens of thousands of years apart, on different planets, or possibly even in different dimensions/universes. But there are alot of things, other than chocobos, moogles, and Cids that pop up in numerous games. The sky fortress, the Void, Cloud of Darkness, Ancients, dwarves, technology & magic at odds, Meteor & Holy, to name a few are specific things, some of which that are clearly not "trademarks" but staples that the characters expect to be in their world, and have been for a very long time.

I think if the producers want to connect games like FFX and FFVII they should to do it with more than one conversation. The Suikoden series has multiple characters that appear in every game, and multiple references to places and events in previous installments. That would be a better way to do it, instead of these half-hearted measures. The way it was handled makes me feel like the producers were elbowing me in the ribs.

Where are all of you getting that X and VII arte connected? I've never heard of that and it doesn't make sense when the structure of their worlds are totally different and both of them have their own sequels.

Bolivar was referring to a character in FFX-2 named Shinra, and the company in FFVII is named the Shin-Ra corporation. That could have just been a reference not a connection, except there's a scene where he analyzes the life energy of the planet and says it's theoretically possible to extract it and use it for energy, but it's not feasible at the present time. FFX-2 is hinting that the events of FFX and FFX-2 predate FFVII in time (if not necesserily in space).

[Bolivar]

Far-fetched? You mean like the major continental upheavals that have already taken place on our planet over its vast history? In a way, that would contribute to a connection making sense, as this takes thousands of years to occur, and all catastrophic events in FF seem to take place thousands of years apart within each game, so I would imagine it would be even longer between games. Not to mention that the denizens of the FF world have been drastically changing the geology of their planets since FFI (Gnomes using TNT, the Ancients raising castles).

For continental drift to explain the map changes, you'd have to allow for millions of years, not thousands. And although catastrophic rearrangement of the world map did occur in FFVI, it'd have to happen about 11 or 12 more times to account for every world map of every FF being different. Mind you, I didn't say it was impossible, just very unlikely.

Back on topic, I would like to ask, if you feel the X & VII connection is far-fetched, why do you think so? One poster claimed that a whole connection being based on two characters sharing the same name is rediculous. I would agree, as that's occured in many FF's, and blatantly as references.

However, when that said character starts talking about extracting life force of those that passed from the planet, and refining it into energy, a red flag goes up.

I would also say that using space technology as the bridge between the two games is not far-fetched either, as space exploration has played a part in a number of games, and there has been in every game a group or ancient civilization obsessed with making objects fly. Space is the logical end of that line of thinking, as epitomized in Cid Highwind.

Furthermore, races traveling to other planets does not sound like bad fan fiction - it sounds like what has already happened in Final Fantasy IV, V, VII, and IX.

My idea of there being a possibility of the series being related is not that they happen one after the other, or that the story of one impacts the story of the other. I would believe that the games are still not related, but that they take place either thousands or tens of thousands of years apart, on different planets, or possibly even in different dimensions/universes. But there are alot of things, other than chocobos, moogles, and Cids that pop up in numerous games. The sky fortress, the Void, Cloud of Darkness, Ancients, dwarves, technology & magic at odds, Meteor & Holy, to name a few are specific things, some of which that are clearly not "trademarks" but staples that the characters expect to be in their world, and have been for a very long time.

I think if the producers want to connect games like FFX and FFVII they should to do it with more than one conversation. The Suikoden series has multiple characters that appear in every game, and multiple references to places and events in previous installments. That would be a better way to do it, instead of these half-hearted measures. The way it was handled makes me feel like the producers were elbowing me in the ribs.

Where are all of you getting that X and VII arte connected? I've never heard of that and it doesn't make sense when the structure of their worlds are totally different and both of them have their own sequels.

Bolivar was referring to a character in FFX-2 named Shinra, and the company in FFVII is named the Shin-Ra corporation. That could have just been a reference not a connection, except there's a scene where he analyzes the life energy of the planet and says it's theoretically possible to extract it and use it for energy, but it's not feasible at the present time. FFX-2 is hinting that the events of FFX and FFX-2 predate FFVII in time (if not necesserily in space).

that's true, it is very weak as of now since it seems like it was just mentioned in passing.

And I don't think every FF world map is in the same world, could be diff planets.

I think it's more of a conceptual scene than a physical setting. What I mean is they do take place in the same world, the world of Final Fantasy.

[Renmiri]

Where are all of you getting that X and VII arte connected? I've never heard of that and it doesn't make sense when the structure of their worlds are totally different and both of them have their own sequels.

Bolivar was referring to a character in FFX-2 named Shinra, and the company in FFVII is named the Shin-Ra corporation. That could have just been a reference not a connection, except there's a scene where he analyzes the life energy of the planet and says it's theoretically possible to extract it and use it for energy, but it's not feasible at the present time. FFX-2 is hinting that the events of FFX and FFX-2 predate FFVII in time (if not necesserily in space).

Kids, do read the first page on the thread. It's all there with links Ultimania FFX-2 has an interview with Nomura where he flat out declares the 2 games are connected. FFVII takes place centuries later on a new planet but Shinra's name and the idea of extracting life energy came from Spira.