Do you believe in Evolution?

[Mirage]

You can be a Christian and accept evolution. Unless you're the kind of Christian that believes the woman is less worth than the man, and that you should stone your neighbour if he works on the sabbath.

[Moomba Misstress]

He starts off blaming all the worlds problems on non Christians which bothers the hell out of me. Its like he seems to forget that the world is full of other religions, that people of many different religions (omg yeah even his) do the things hes talking about. I think we all seem to forget that the world didn't start when the Christian Bible was written. (Because we all know thats the religion he's arguing evolution with.) People existed way before someone wrote a book saying that thier God made us. I don't believe that any God made us, so I suppose evolution makes the most sense to me, but being Agnostic I won't ignore the fact that something I don't understand may exist. However, I do believe that all religions are mythology, seeing how much of mythology is dead religions. The reason we are seeing less and less of any particular religion is simply because they come and go. Many religions with many different gods exist even now, have existed and no longer exist today. One needs to realize this. I think we use religion as a comfort to the daily life we create for ourselves, because for whatever reason, (be it evolution) we are capable of thought processes no other animal seems to be, which allows us to even think religion can exist. We need something to comfort the thoughts and feelings we may not be able to understand. Something to have "faith" in. Others of us don't need this. Why, that I don't know, its just what makes each person who they are. He makes many references to many different things, and doesn't seem to take the time to understand any of them. Attempting to equate the evolution of a horse over millions of years to plastic utensils. How does he care to explain dinosaurs away? Or the millions of small fossils from organisms that existed long before man? I don't see how someone whos beliefs lay in complete faith of something unproveable, that one one has ever seen, and can't give tangable evidence to, can say that evolution doesn't exist when there is tangable proof through science of similarities between species.

I just saw that part where he tries to say were aren't realted to other species because a wolf, dog and coyote aren't like a banana again while trying to complete my thoughts... I can't even think straight about it anymore. I mean how much, ugh.. its just, you can't compare apples and oranges, oh wait you can, at least they are both from plants. >< I mean wtf dude, a banana? Lets at least try to keep it in the classification Animalia... of course a banana, being of the classification Plantae, isn't going to be similar anymore.... *sigh* I don't even want to think about it anymore.

[Discord]

He starts off blaming all the worlds problems on non Christians which bothers the hell out of me. Its like he seems to forget that the world is full of other religions, that people of many different religions (omg yeah even his) do the things hes talking about. I think we all seem to forget that the world didn't start when the Christian Bible was written. (Because we all know thats the religion he's arguing evolution with.) People existed way before someone wrote a book saying that thier God made us. I don't believe that any God made us, so I suppose evolution makes the most sense to me, but being Agnostic I won't ignore the fact that something I don't understand may exist. However, I do believe that all religions are mythology, seeing how much of mythology is dead religions. The reason we are seeing less and less of any particular religion is simply because they come and go. Many religions with many different gods exist even now, have existed and no longer exist today. One needs to realize this. I think we use religion as a comfort to the daily life we create for ourselves, because for whatever reason, (be it evolution) we are capable of thought processes no other animal seems to be, which allows us to even think religion can exist. We need something to comfort the thoughts and feelings we may not be able to understand. Something to have "faith" in. Others of us don't need this. Why, that I don't know, its just what makes each person who they are. He makes many references to many different things, and doesn't seem to take the time to understand any of them. Attempting to equate the evolution of a horse over millions of years to plastic utensils. How does he care to explain dinosaurs away? Or the millions of small fossils from organisms that existed long before man? I don't see how someone whos beliefs lay in complete faith of something unproveable, that one one has ever seen, and can't give tangable evidence to, can say that evolution doesn't exist when there is tangable proof through science of similarities between species.

I just saw that part where he tries to say were aren't realted to other species because a wolf, dog and coyote aren't like a banana again while trying to complete my thoughts... I can't even think straight about it anymore. I mean how much, ugh.. its just, you can't compare apples and oranges, oh wait you can, at least they are both from plants. >< I mean wtf dude, a banana? Lets at least try to keep it in the classification Animalia... of course a banana, being of the classification Plantae, isn't going to be similar anymore.... *sigh* I don't even want to think about it anymore.

The guy's just an stupid, arrogant jerk. There's really not much to it.

EDIT: I wonder what's the big deal with American fundamental Chrisitans and bananas though...

The whole point of the bible stories is to teach a moral lesson and give answers to things that were unknown at the time.
Not be a documentary.

And that's exactly what quite a few people seem to miss out.

[Raistlin]

You are jumping the logic ship in favour or a more appealing philosophical back out. According to science and logic though, the best lead we have is Boolean.

No, according to you, your perversion of logic works best. In literal terms, you can't know for certain about anything, however there are degrees of certainty when weighing the evidence. Therefore, the only thing required to take the negative position is to have NO REASON to accept the positive assertion. You do it every day of your life. You just reject logic when it suits your biases.

It amuses me again to see you cite logic and especially science. Especially since they both say you're wrong on this particular issue.

[Proxy]

The whole point of the bible stories is to teach a moral lesson and give answers to things that were unknown at the time.
Not be a documentary.

So they are just fairy tales. Fantastic =D

[Discord]

So they are just fairy tales. Fantastic =D

Any reasons to believe otherwise?

[bipper]

You can be a Christian and accept evolution. Unless you're the kind of Christian that believes the woman is less worth than the man, and that you should stone your neighbour if he works on the sabbath.

Anything to insult the religion, eh? There is a certain satire about the happenings in the bible. Stop your neighbor from working on the sabbath, as he was told by God not too. His non resting and constant work-ethic will out produce you and make the economy favour him. While his basic family unit would be with out a father, or whatever have you. The strain and effect would be felt on the community. Imagine if we had to work 7 days a week, or take a massive fiscal (economically objective) hit. There was a reason for these rules, a - dare I say it - logical implimentation.

No, according to you, your perversion of logic works best. In literal terms, you can't know for certain about anything, however there are degrees of certainty when weighing the evidence.

And normally when I tout this horn, I am challenged to the teeth by yourself and others. Either way, you are saying that we go via our stimuli and learn and credit these with being the sole factors that exist. Though, there is the possibility of more to the story. This is the same way in which I gaurd religion, and you destest. And no, I do not prevert logic. I spend quite a bit of time with logic, as a programmer, as a person, and as a thinking machine. Logic is made to be precieved and twisted to be tested as any tight-knit form of thought ought be. So don't start accusing me of preverting it, when all I have seen here is too many lawlgiticians retarding it.

Therefore, the only thing required to take the negative position is to have NO REASON to accept the positive assertion. You do it every day of your life. You just reject logic when it suits your biases.

I really think you should mind your convictions. There is no law that states one must only strive to follow logic. Also, how much do you know of me, to make a personal assertion of such - not near enough. This does nothing but points out your arrogance and ignorance. If we only ever acted on basic logic alone, it would be a safe assumption that we would never have ended up here, and you would not be alive. Either way, I am not too impressed with your tone, and your double-standard/changing of the equation.

It amuses me again to see you cite logic and especially science. Especially since they both say you're wrong on this particular issue.

I find it rather insulting and hypocritical that you rob science it's number 1 strength, the ability to change. Sure, they disagree now, but science is more than an immediate result, it is a growth. Also, it makes sence to point out here that science is not an objective entity. It is subject to many many schools of thought and people studying all they can. Stop retarding it.

Logic however, is incredibly complex for our minds to follow. If you want to challenge objective logic, good luck. Know that all knowlage and stimuli is subjective. Therefore, you would think that logic has it's own subjective school as well. Think outside your box, swim into the deep end.

You may charge me with being unscientifical and preverting logic, while I charge you with being utterly closed minded and shallow. A common polar of stances in any school of thought.

[krissy]

>>> I don't believe in evolution. I believe in Digivolution.

/thread

[Raistlin]

Either way, you are saying that we go via our stimuli and learn and credit these with being the sole factors that exist. Though, there is the possibility of more to the story. This is the same way in which I gaurd religion, and you destest.

Yet again, you are misrepresenting the secular position on evolution (and the atheist position on gods, but that's another topic). We do not discount the possibility of there being other factors. We just don't believe in other factors <i>until there is objective evidence to support them.</i> It's not "no gods did anything to form the diversity of life today," but "we have no reason to believe that any supernatural powers helped develop the diversity of life today." Those are completely different statements.

And for further amusement:

And no, I do not prevert logic. I spend quite a bit of time with logic, as a programmer, as a person, and as a thinking machine. Logic is made to be precieved and twisted to be tested as any tight-knit form of thought ought be. So don't start accusing me of preverting it, when all I have seen here is too many lawlgiticians retarding it.

I really think you should mind your convictions. There is no law that states one must only strive to follow logic.

So you don't pervert logic... you just don't follow it all the time. Uh, ok.

Also, it makes sence to point out here that science is not an objective entity. It is subject to many many schools of thought and people studying all they can. Stop retarding it.

YOU accusing someone of retarding scientific growth by that person requiring evidence to support positive assertions? I guess you're just not following logic again.

[bipper]

Yet again, you are misrepresenting the secular posi<b></b>tion on evolution (and the atheist posi<b></b>tion on gods, but that's another topic). We do not discount the possibility of there being other factors. We just don't believe in other factors <i>until there is objective evidence to support them.</i> It's not "no gods did anything to form the diversity of life today," but "we have no reason to believe that any supernatural powers helped develop the diversity of life today." Those are completely different statements.

I could accept that answer, if there was not such an insulting and spiteful view of theists. That makes this watered down safe position, a little hard to swallow.

And for further amusement:

So you don't pervert logic... you just don't follow it all the time. Uh, ok.

Yes, to prevert logic would require me to bend it to the point it is no longer logical. When I am deciding what to do, or what to eat, I am often not logical - nor do I wish to think about it. Way to try to use that against me too.

YOU accusing someone of retarding scientific growth by that person requiring evidence to support positive assertions? I guess you're just not following logic again.

And it comes to that part everyone of our discussions does where you have succesfully streamlined the topic into obscurity. The originoal point is that you can prove a negative assertion. IE: there is no God. And until you can prove it, I see no reason to mock (that is, out side of good fun humor). This action alone should suffice my claim. Otherwise, I was simply saying that by being stubborn and passing assumption as facts that you even claim are subjective (in less words) is simply hypocritical and shallow. This retards thought. Also, you just blantantly put words into my mouth and misrepresented my claim.

[Raistlin]

I could accept that answer, if there was not such an insulting and spiteful view of theists. That makes this watered down safe position, a little hard to swallow.

What insulting and spiteful view? Oh wait, your persecution complex. I forgot.

Yes, to prevert logic would require me to bend it to the point it is no longer logical. When I am deciding what to do, or what to eat, I am often not logical - nor do I wish to think about it. Way to try to use that against me too.

So you admit you don't always use logic. Ok.

Now, the inevitable amusing part:

Also, you just blantantly put words into my mouth and misrepresented my claim.

You accusing someone else of misrepresenting an argument.

[Discord]

I could accept that answer, if there was not such an insulting and spiteful view of theists. That makes this watered down safe position, a little hard to swallow.

Are you accusing the atheist of being disrespectful towards the believers? Give me a break, we've even agreed to have days off on their religious holidays!

On a serious note, I do not really see many atheists posting videos on YouTube or having entire satellite TV channels simply for the sake of converting people to atheism. The Christians, in this particular case, haven't been bugged by anyone at all. They've simply posted a video that calls everybody who doesn't believe in a Creator a Satanist and tells, excuse the expression, bullcrap about evolution. Now this is where the atheists have, once again, proven the fundamentalists wrong. The Christians got very "sad" about it and stopped talking to us. Now tell me that this is what you call an "insulting[...] view of theism".

[TyphoonThaReapa]

Wow, after reading all these responses, my head hurts...But, for the record, I like to believe the I came from my mother and the ONLY strenght I can truely rely on his my own because this life is MY life, not God's. I like to believe in a higher power but to believe that everything will be fine if you leave your life to a God that has no proof of existance is pretty stupid. That's why I choose to live and die knowing it was MY strenght that gave out. As for the existance of the very first lifeform on this planet, I believe that we can't find the true answer for a reason. You see, our past is indeed a major part of our existance. But it isn't the only part. If you put too much effort into the past, your blind to the present and future. If scientist or religion finally figure out where exactly did we come from, life will continue regardless of the answer. And what will change? Like I said before, I will rely on myself. And that's all I need...

[Savern Volaco]

I couldn't believe in evolution I am a christian but, every bodies opinion and the way they are is fine I don't like to force any religion like a few fundamentalists try. just go with the flow and live together no matter the religious or person beliefs.

[Goldenboko]

Personally I like to not discredit, nor believe in any religion. I will not spend my life wondering about god, the afterlife, and if any religion is true.

I'll die when I die, if there is a god and if he is all forgiving, he/she/it should be able to understand the position of the people who don't take sides.