Penelo - Transient Extraordinaire

[Cap'n Basch]

Cap'n Basch pretty much owns a lot of people in here. <3

Blaming gamers for XII's poor story telling is not owning

I respect Wolf Kano's and your points, Cap'n Basch in spite of his gorgeous name (Bash!!!! ) is just a weak debater that resorts to AD HOMINEN attacks when he sees his pet game offended. He knows nothing of story telling theory yet he tries to put me down pretending he knows. Won't fly, I have several classes on it under my belt. He would do better to discuss XII story telling on it's merits, not on my and any other people's "flaws" because we don't love it.

Ad hominem, when used correctly, is a fallacy based on saying "Person X is Y" and asserting their viewpoint is not correct as a consequence of that. It is not generalised to personal attacks, and I made none of those anyway. Moreover, it is not always a fallacy; it is valid to say "You cannot trust this man on property rights because he is a thief".

It would be correct to bring it up if I made the direct statement that you had ADD and therefore couldn't follow the story properly.

Fun fact: saying someone's argument is wrong based solely on a fallacy and without an actual counter-argument of your own is itself a fallacy.

Further, I have presented an argument in my post - you have chosen not to address it and to make imagined attacks on you the central issue of the discussion.

I guess some exaggeration is fine and harmless in your view, like "anyone who dislikes XII is like a child with ADD" while others are unfair, heh ?

Fairness works both ways.

Your reading comprehension needs work if you read what I wrote that way. The "Child with ADD" line is hyperbole with respect to the length of your attention span (derived from the fact you seem to forget plot points quickly when presented with a certain volume of gameplay). It is not a general attack on XII haters, and saying that is is dishonest - and a very good way to sidestep the need to provide an actual argument. I think you're capable of having this discussion, why are you looking so hard for a reason to cop out?


Additional, I would point out that I and I expect many others here don't care that you've taken "classes", and it's actually irrelevant to the discussion at hand because we cannot verify the quality of these courses, their content, your relative success in them, and so on and so forth. Having an interest in creative writing does not make you a literary critic and definitely not an infallible one, though you certainly make the effort to pass yourself off as such here.

I'm going to quote this:

The more time you spend trying to cherry-pick insults out of other peoples' remarks, the more you look like your actual argument holds no water.

Then present this:

Vaan hasn't forgotten his brother by Jahara and Penelo certainly hasn't "forgotten herself". An absence of direct referrences to Reks should not be read like that. Reks was important for helping establish Vaan's character and his relationship with Basch; he was not there for Vaan to endlessly angst over as though he were Squall. Vaan is not solely defined by Reks. And not only is it impertinent to the development of the actual story to bring him up, but from the fact Vaan is no longer ostensibly angry about Reks' death, we can infer he was made peace with it and it reflects a grown trust in Basch.

...every time Larsa joins the party, any subsequent interactions between those two characters, and the things she says in later areas (specifically Archades, because how she and Vaan feel about the Empire is important to their characters)...

Which are the correctly cherry-picked quotations if you actually want to have a meaningful discussion rather than a derail to avoid having to justify your viewpoint. And the things you didn't bother actually responding to. Care to actually defend the position I refuted?