Penelo - Transient Extraordinaire

[Formalhaut]

*Gives cocoa to Renmiri with Marshmellows on top *

Right, lets recap on what we haved Talked/dicussed/argued about.

Ok 1st off the thread started saying whats the Point of Penelo Then it went to why she is to be in the game. Then Renmiri said that Vaan forgets his Brother and Penelo Forgets herself Then it drifted abit to the story and ending. Then To ASHE(Team BAP) about her abondoning the Party when she is queen. Then Cap'n Basch says that it would affect her time with her friends (Being queen) Then about Personal attacking, then about why argue? Then a recap. Then more dialog, then my post, then to Penelo and Vaan again. Then personal again... then Ashe and the storyline. Then a break... of cocoa. Then sky pirates then my post.

[Renmiri]

I hope so, RW seems like a cute game and more sky pirating after seeing none can only be good

[Namelessfengir]

Adult doujinshi.

hells yeah!!!

or maybe theirs a code so it's like gta and she'll restore your health

[Marshall Banana]

So why were Vaan and Penelo even there? Unlike the previous games, the character you control in cities is not the central character. In my opinion, they are just present to illustrate the fact that war affects everybody, not just the important people in the world.

XD! To aid their Queen, to help her find a way to restore their home's independence, and to fight against the Empire that wrecked their lives - you don't think those are good reasons for Vaan and Penelo to stick around?

[Savannah]

TBPH, after reading that discussion (if you could even call it that:rolleyes2 ), I'm agreeing strongly with Renmiri here. I'll try to justify why, though I haven't finished it yet.

At the beginning of the game, Vaan is the main character, and we see he has strong feelings about avenging his brother, especially when he meets Reks' supposed killer, Basch. In time, he does realize that the Empire, not Basch, killed his brother. From that point on, Vaan goes from a cameo, to a mere Vincent character (as in, like Vincent, his only role is to be an extra playable character).

Onboard the Strahl, he plays no role whatsoever, and when the party leaves Bhujerba afterwards (the scene where Ashe plans to steal Balthier's ship) his entire reason for going is, and this is a direct quote, "I don't want to stick around this place." He doesn't have to bring his brother up constantly, but if he was going to, that would be the time. I could stop here, because Savannah and Cap'n have already failed, but I want to make sure you can't dismiss my evidence as a bad case of ADD:rolleyes2 .

Another direct quote:

Balthier: Hard to say. I'll know when I find it. What is it you want, Vaan?
What are you looking for?

Vaan: Me? What am I looking for? I guess- well, I- you know...

Yo, Vaan. Is the answer you're looking for 'avenge my brother' perchance? Why don't you say it? Maybe because... you've forgotten it!

Vaan finally remembers his brother in Jahara, but all thoughts of revenge are long gone by then. So why were Vaan and Penelo even there? Unlike the previous games, the character you control in cities is not the central character. In my opinion, they are just present to illustrate the fact that war affects everybody, not just the important people in the world.


Ah, that was a good rant. I think I'll have some cocoa now.

Go fight the bosses in the Pharos again (I guess everyone is just ignoring me on this point since it might make you face a flaw in your theory). Vaan doesn't stop talking about his brother after Bhujerba. He doesn't answer Balthier because... how is "avenging my brother" an answer to "What are you looking for?" None of this is evidence of Vaan "forgetting" his brother. If he talked about Reks any more than he did, you would all be bitching that he's too whiny (i.e., like everyone did with Tidus).

[Bolivar]

Go fight the bosses in the Pharos again (I guess everyone is just ignoring me on this point since it might make you face a flaw in your theory). Vaan doesn't stop talking about his brother after Bhujerba. He doesn't answer Balthier because... how is "avenging my brother" an answer to "What are you looking for?" None of this is evidence of Vaan "forgetting" his brother. If he talked about Reks any more than he did, you would all be bitching that he's too whiny (i.e., like everyone did with Tidus).

Why is it that this story gets defended with such exaggerations? No, of course we don't want the characters babbling on for excessive amounts of time explaining their motivations. That's not what this thread is calling for, nor is it what it's about.

This thread seems to be a piece in the larger issue that this game fails as an RPG, and as a Final Fantasy. The graphical detail, open-ended character build system, and amount of optional challenges is perhaps unprecedented in console gaming. But effort-wise, when compared to all that, the story is practically non-existent.

I just posted in the FFVII forums about the storytelling techniques of that game. And when I think about it, it's sad that a game released 10 years ago can be so much more accomplished in this area.

I don't hate FFXII. But I recognize its faults, and its lack of story is far too noticeable to be overlooked.

[Karellen]

[Setzer Gabianni]

what the heck is that?

[BG-57]

The Tower of Babel, which is the origin of the word babble.

[Firo Volondé]

XD! To aid their Queen, to help her find a way to restore their home's independence, and to fight against the Empire that wrecked their lives - you don't think those are good reasons for Vaan and Penelo to stick around?

Stick around? Maybe. But not as a playable character, much less the representative of the party outside of battle. It would help if they had anything worthwhile to say. Only Ashe, Basch and Balthier had enough significance to really be considered main characters.

Go fight the bosses in the Pharos again (I guess everyone is just ignoring me on this point since it might make you face a flaw in your theory).

I can't, because I'm not up to that point yet (I assume you're talking to me, since you're replying to my quote), but I did consult a game script (watching out for spoilers), and found a single reference to Reks. That does prove Vaan didn't completely forget about him, but if I was avenging someone, I'd mention them a lot more than once.

Vaan doesn't stop talking about his brother after Bhujerba. He doesn't answer Balthier because... how is "avenging my brother" an answer to "What are you looking for?"

How about the other part of Balthier's question, "What is it you want?" There, the reply "To avenge my brother" makes perfect sense. Tsk, you really should read your opponent's whole argument before trying to rebutt it.

None of this is evidence of Vaan "forgetting" his brother. If he talked about Reks any more than he did, you would all be bitching that he's too whiny (i.e., like everyone did with Tidus).

I don't think so. There's a very tangible difference between whining about your problem once after the first 10% of the game, and whining about your problem at regular intervals.

[Formalhaut]

Ha ha ha ha! very funny. Babble. Lol. Very nice. You get a free cocoa with Marshmellows on top!!