Ultimecia

[Lynx]

i cant believe someone can be stupid or pathetic for not knowing every line in FFVIII??? who new a game could determine intellagence?

so is the argument about absorb and comprssion defintions or ultimecias power or definitions of world and exhistance?

either way necron would own ultimecia

[PuPu]

This ongoing debate between Forsaken Lover and The Crystal is even funnier than Ultimecia's use of k's.

She was absorbing all existence(that is the universe) because they didn't use the word "world" but "all existence.

"They" as in the FF8 characters or "they" as in that one scan? The way I see it is: the one Scan of Ulti in her final form vs. what Forsaken Lover had said in his first post on this thread. Crystal, you can't deny the fact that Forsaken Lover does have more proof than you. After all, we've only seen you use the one bit of information of the Scan, compared to Forsaken's many bits of dialogue information from the characters.

Also, you both claim what you both say is the word of SE, and that the other person's interpretation of the word of SE is wrong. The fact is, one of you can't be right and the other one wrong, because the information of what the characters say in the storyline of FF8 and the scan of Ultimecia in her final form are both information given by SE. The only way I can see it is that either both of your interpretations on the word of SE are right, or both of you are wrong. I don't think I or anyone else can really determine if you two are both right or both wrong except SE themselves, so you both should probably stop using the argument of: "You are contradicting the word of SE."

I'm not going to contribute the argument against or for Ultimecia; after all, that's The Crystal and Forsaken Lover's jobs.

[jammi567]

This is on the other thread on this board (:rolleyes2), but i'll post it here so that everyone can read it.

I really don't want to get involved in this pathetic argument that no-one is ever going to solve, but what i post here is the definitions of what the word 'world' means fron Dictonary.com:

world /wɜrld/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[wurld]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation–noun

1.	the earth or globe, considered as a planet.

2.	(often initial capital letter) a particular division of the earth: the Western world.

3.	the earth or a part of it, with its inhabitants, affairs, etc., during a particular period: the ancient world.

4.	humankind; the human race; humanity: The world must eliminate war and poverty.

5.	the public generally: The whole world knows it.

6.	the class of persons devoted to the affairs, interests, or pursuits of this life: The world worships success.

7.	a particular class of people, with common interests, aims, etc.: the fashionable world.

8.	any sphere, realm, or domain, with all pertaining to it: a child's world; the world of dreams; the insect world.

9.	everything that exists; the universe; the macrocosm.

10.	any complex whole conceived as resembling the universe: the world of the microcosm.

11.	one of the three general groupings of physical nature: animal world; mineral world; vegetable world.

12.	any period, state, or sphere of existence: this world; the world to come.

13.	Often, worlds. a great deal: That vacation was worlds of fun.

14.	any indefinitely great expanse.

15.	any heavenly body: the starry worlds.

—Idioms

16.	bring into the world, a. to give birth to; bear: My grandmother brought nine children into the world. b. to deliver (a baby): the doctor brought many children into the world.

17.	come into the world, to be born: Her first child came into the world in June.

18.	for all the world, a. for any consideration, however great: She wouldn't come to visit us for all the world. b. in every respect; precisely: You look for all the world like my Aunt Mary.

19.	in the world, a. at all; ever: I never in the world would have believed such an obvious lie. b. from among all possibilities: Where in the world did you find that hat?

20.	on top of the world. top^1 (def. 46).

21.	out of this or the world, exceptional; fine: The chef prepared a roast duck that was out of this world.

22.	set the world on fire, to achieve great fame and success: He didn't seem to be the type to set the world on fire.

23.	think the world of, to like or admire greatly: His coworkers think the world of him.

24.	world without end, for all eternity; for always.

---

[Origin: bef. 900; ME; OE world, weorold; c. D wereld, G Welt, ON verǫld, all < Gmc *wer-ald- lit., age of man]

—Synonyms 1. See earth.

<CITE>Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.</CITE>

<CITE>American Heritage Dictionary</CITE> - Cite This Source

world (wûrld) Pronunciation Key n. The earth. The universe. The earth with its inhabitants. The inhabitants of the earth; the human race. Humankind considered as social beings; human society: turned her back on the world. People as a whole; the public: The event amazed the world. A sphere of human activity or interest: the world of sports. A class or group of people with common characteristics or pursuits: the scientific world. Human existence; life: brought a child into the world. A state of existence: the next world. often World A specified part of the earth: the Western World. A part of the earth and its inhabitants as known at a given period in history: the ancient world. A realm or domain: the animal world; the world of imagination. A sphere of human activity or interest: the world of sports. A class or group of people with common characteristics or pursuits: the scientific world. Human existence; life: brought a child into the world. A state of existence: the next world. A particular way of life: the world of the homeless. All that relates to or affects the life of a person: He saw his world collapse about him. Secular life and its concerns: a man of the world. Human existence; life: brought a child into the world. A state of existence: the next world. A large amount; much. Often used in the plural: did her a world of good; candidates that are worlds apart on foreign policy. A celestial body such as a planet: the possibility of life on other worlds. adj. Of or relating to the world: a world champion. Involving or extending throughout the entire world: a world crisis. [Middle English, from Old English <TT>weorold</TT>; see <TT>wī-ro-</TT> in Indo-European roots.]

(Download Now or Buy the Book)

<CITE>The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.</CITE>

<CITE>Online Etymology Dictionary</CITE> - Cite This Source
world

O.E. woruld, worold "human existence, the affairs of life," also "the human race, mankind," a word peculiar to Gmc. languages (cf. O.S. werold, O.Fris. warld, Du. wereld, O.N. verold, O.H.G. weralt, Ger. Welt), with a literal sense of "age of man," from P.Gmc. *wer "man" (O.E. wer, still in werewolf; see virile) + *ald "age" (see old). Originally "life on earth, this world (as opposed to the afterlife)," sense extended to "the known world" (e.g. "Greatest Show on Earth"), then to "the physical world in the broadest sense, the universe" (c.1200). In O.E. gospels, the commonest word for "the physical world," was Middangeard (O.N. Midgard), lit. "the middle enclosure" (cf. yard), which is rooted in Gmc. cosmology. Gk. kosmos in its ecclesiastical sense of "world of people" sometimes was rendered in Goth. as manaseþs, lit. "seed of man." The usual O.N. word was heimr, lit. "abode" (see home). Words for "world" in some other I.E. languages derive from the root for "bottom, foundation" (cf. Ir. domun, O.C.S. duno, related to Eng. deep); the Lith. word is pasaulis, from pa- "under" + saule "sun." Original sense in world without end, translating L. sæcula sæculorum, and in worldly. L. sæculum can mean both "age" and "world," as can Gk. aion. Worldwide is from 1632. World power in the geopolitical sense first recorded 1900. World-class is attested from 1950, originally of Olympic athletes.

<CITE>Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper</CITE>

<CITE>WordNet</CITE> - Cite This Source

world
adjective
1.	involving the entire earth; not limited or provincial in scope; "global war"; "global monetary policy"; "neither national nor continental but planetary"; "a world crisis"; "of worldwide significance" [syn: global]
noun
1.	everything that exists anywhere; "they study the evolution of the universe"; "the biggest tree in existence" [syn: universe]
2.	people in general; especially a distinctive group of people with some shared interest; "the Western world"
3.	all of your experiences that determine how things appear to you; "his world was shattered"; "we live in different worlds"; "for them demons were as much a part of reality as trees were"
4.	the 3rd planet from the sun; the planet we live on; "the Earth moves around the sun"; "he sailed around the world" [syn: Earth]
5.	people in general considered as a whole; "he is a hero in the eyes of the public" [syn: populace]
6.	a part of the earth that can be considered separately; "the outdoor world"; "the world of insects"
7.	the concerns of this life as distinguished from heaven and the afterlife; "they consider the church to be independent of the world" [syn: worldly concern]
8.	all of the living human inhabitants of the earth; "all the world loves a lover"; "she always used 'humankind' because 'mankind' seemed to slight the women"

[The Crystal]

"They" as in the FF8 characters or "they" as in that one scan?

"They" as in SE(the guys who wrote the scan).

The way I see it is: the one Scan of Ulti in her final form vs. what Forsaken Lover had said in his first post on this thread. Crystal, you can't deny the fact that Forsaken Lover does have more proof than you. After all, we've only seen you use the one bit of information of the Scan, compared to Forsaken's many bits of dialogue information from the characters.

And there is the point. Information in the scan(gived by SE itself) >>>>>>>>>>> the opinion of the characters in the game.

Also, you both claim what you both say is the word of SE, and that the other person's interpretation of the word of SE is wrong. The fact is, one of you can't be right and the other one wrong, because the information of what the characters say in the storyline of FF8 and the scan of Ultimecia in her final form are both information given by SE. The only way I can see it is that either both of your interpretations on the word of SE are right, or both of you are wrong. I don't think I or anyone else can really determine if you two are both right or both wrong except SE themselves, so you both should probably stop using the argument of: "You are contradicting the word of SE."

I'm not going to contribute the argument against or for Ultimecia; after all, that's The Crystal and Forsaken Lover's jobs.

All the scans(and quotes) complement each other. The last one is the explanation of why only Ultimecia could exist in TC(because she would be the only being "alive" after absorbing everything). All the story make sense if you pay atention. And like Jammi proved, world = all existence.
I accept everything the game state. It's Forsaken Lover that wants to literaly ignore the last scan, because it goes against his argument.

He is saying "Lets ignore the last scan, because i think it contradict the others."



Forsaken Lover want to literaly ignore the last scan, ignore the word of Square-Enix.

It's like the guys i know in another forum. "Jenova was controlling Sephiroth. What the UOG said is not important, because it contradict everything in the game, so we will just ignore it. LOL"

[Forsaken Lover]

And there is the point. Information in the scan(gived by SE itself) >>>>>>>>>>> the opinion of the characters in the game.

Selective sight.

A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time and taking power from all sorceresses

That's the word of SE.

[PuPu]

Like I said...

"A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time and taking power from all sorceresses."

vs.

"Ultimecia transformed...Absorbing the universe as we speak."

Both are the word of SE. Either both of you are right, or neither are right, depending on how you interpret it.

[NeoCracker]

And there is the point. Information in the scan(gived by SE itself) >>>>>>>>>>> the opinion of the characters in the game.

Selective sight.

A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time and taking power from all sorceresses

That's the word of SE.

Okay, there is no controdiction. Time Compression, compressing all time together, past present and future. If you compress the time, you compress everything in that time. If you did not, then you would have a universe of things that exist outside of time. If Time is the only thing getting compressed, what the hell happens to everything else?

Its rather safe to assume that by compressing time, everything in the time compressed is dragged in. Otherwise, what the hell would be the point of compressing time? Existance itself would have to come with it.

[The Crystal]

Like I said...

"A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time and taking power from all sorceresses."

vs.

"Ultimecia transformed...Absorbing the universe as we speak."

Both are the word of SE. Either both of you are right, or neither are right, depending on how you interpret it.

And we have two options:

First one:

The last scan complement/explain the first. All time is compressed to a single point(Ultimecia's body in this case), and existence change forever because of that. In the same time, the world would change, because it's part of existence.

Second one:

The first scan is only talking about the world and compressing time to a single point(not Ultimecia's body), and the last scan... don't exist! Lets ignore it completely!


I'm using the first option. Forsaken is using the second.

[Forsaken Lover]

Actually, I'm using the 3rd Option:

The first scan agrees with all dialogue and the last scan is contradicting and hyperbolic.

The only way to connect them is to make your own personal guesses on the matter.

[Dr. Acula]

Question: How could Ultimecia take power from all soceresses without absorbing it?

[TyphoonThaReapa]

Wow, you guys are incredibly persistent. For the record, you both are right. You see, in the scan Forsaker's talking about, Ultimecia was in her first form. She compressed time in her first form. In the scan Crystal's talking about, Ultimecia is absorbing the compressed world in her final form.

Think about it people. Ultimecia's intentions are right there in your faces! She compressed time because it's easier to absorb all of existence while everything is smashed together. For example, Try put a sheet of paper in your mouth. Can fit it in there huh genius? That would be existence in a non compressed form. Now try put a sheet of balled up paper in your mouth. A lot easier huh? That's existence doing time compression.

So, basically, time compression was only half of Ultimecia's plan. Absorbing the Time Compressed World is the other half. And I say 'World' because by compressing all of existence would make all of existence similar to the size of a planet...

[Forsaken Lover]

Question: How could Ultimecia take power from all soceresses without absorbing it?

A fairly intelligent thing to ask.

If Ultimecia absorbs all time, she gains the powers of every sorceress back to the time the Great Hyne gave the power.

Of course, is Rinoa not the only sorceress still alive by the time of FF8? Both Edea and Adel give her their powers and since a sorceress can not die without bestowing their powers on someone, this would mean Rinoa possesses all the power Hyne originally gave.

Of course, if there are other sorceresses alive, that destroys that theory. But it still would mean that Rinoa would have to be absorbed. Yet Ultimecia never showed the slightest interest when they actually met.

Crystal also maintains Time Compression hit them during the final battle. I do not believe this because from what I remember, during the battle with the sorceresses through time, the background had a very specific way of changing. When fighting Ultimecia, you just look back and everything is different. Why I believe she’s transporting them all places.

And since she would still have to compress the future, it’s all a mystery.

I’ll concede she’s absorbing things. But it’s simply on a global scale as the scan and dialgoue prove.

[TyphoonThaReapa]

Question: How could Ultimecia take power from all soceresses without absorbing it?

A fairly intelligent thing to ask.

If Ultimecia absorbs all time, she gains the powers of every sorceress back to the time the Great Hyne gave the power.

Of course, is Rinoa not the only sorceress still alive by the time of FF8? Both Edea and Adel give her their powers and since a sorceress can not die without bestowing their powers on someone, this would mean Rinoa possesses all the power Hyne originally gave.

Of course, if there are other sorceresses alive, that destroys that theory. But it still would mean that Rinoa would have to be absorbed. Yet Ultimecia never showed the slightest interest when they actually met.

Crystal also maintains Time Compression hit them during the final battle. I do not believe this because from what I remember, during the battle with the sorceresses through time, the background had a very specific way of changing. When fighting Ultimecia, you just look back and everything is different. Why I believe she’s transporting them all places.

And since she would still have to compress the future, it’s all a mystery.

I’ll concede she’s absorbing things. But it’s simply on a global scale as the scan and dialgoue prove.

Well, I don't think she ever did absorb all the sorcerer's power. I think her natural power is equivalent to that of all sorcerers. And your right about her being able to absorb only on a Global scale Forsaker. I mean, let's face it, absorbing all of existence crazy. But by putting existence in an compacted form similar to the size of a world, Time Compression, She would be able to absorb existence. Makes since?

[The Crystal]

I’ll concede she’s absorbing things.

Finally! I thought this day would never come!

And "world" can be "existence/universe" like Jammi already proved.
We have only one scan saying "world". All the other quotes that "contradict" the last scan, aren't very important, because they are just opinions of characters in the game.

Ultimecia didn't need Rinoa's powers in the final battle. Rinoa's powers are a joke compared to all existence. Hell, before her final form, she was so powerful that she readed Squall's mind and took Griever out of it. Making a creature that only exist in the imagination of a person, become real, is much more impressive than anything Kuja ever did. She could even cancel magic.