So This Is All Odine's Fault? (And other things)

[Ender]

There's already plenty of dicussion about what happens *after* Ultimecia begins time compression--so I'd like to avoid that in this thread if possible. What I'm wondering is sort of about the HOW she achieves it (I know it's magic--I'm referring to the logic of the timeline)...can the info be found in the game and I just missed it or did the writers just basically say "the HOW is not important"???

Ultimecia would have been an evil sorceress terrorizing her own time except for the technology Doc Odine created that simulated Ellone's powers and enabled Ultimecia to then take over the consciousness of sorcerers at any point back in time up until the creation of said technology...

I believe I have that right, yes?

The true power that Ellone possessed would have allowed Ultimecia to achieve time compression...but why???

Was it the power itself or the point in time that mattered?

The events of the game suggest to me that it was the point in time. But it was Ellone's power that would enable Ultimecia to send her consciousness to that point in time.

Evidence: The plan Doc Odine sets forth in Laguna's office goes something like the following:

-Squall and friends rescue Ellone from Lunatic Pandora
-Squall and friends confront sorceress Adel whose consciousness now includes Ultimecia's
-By killing sorceress Adel, Ultimecia's consciousness is released and enters Rinoa
-Ellone uses her power to send the Rinoa-Ultimecia consciousness back in time
-Back in the past, Rinoa is supposed to pass the Ultimecia consciousness on to another sorceress--

*At this point I get a little ????!!!!!!

IIRC, Odine suggests that Rinoa could pass the Ultimecia consciousness to a "past" Edea or Adel (I assume this is because Ellone admits she is only confident about using her power to send consciousnesses into people she knows). The Edea or Adel-Ultimecia can then compress time bringing past, present, and future to the same point and allowing Squall and friends to defeat the "true" Ultimecia of the future.

Say what?

Nowhere in that plan is the use of Ellone's power by Ultimecia (or the Ultimecia consciousness) included. Fine. The game implies elsewhere IIRC that Ultimecia already possessed the knowledge of time compression, she just couldn't put it into action yet.

But the logical conclusion is that the difference between achieving time compression and not, across all of existence, was probably no more than forty years or so from where Ultimecia could go back to using Odine's device.

1. That (like many other elements of the game--amnesia from GF's anyone?) is very shallow and abritrary so that the writers didn't have to stress their brains too much being creative--though it creates the interesting dynamic of what Ultimecia wanted to achieve being *just* out of her grasp. It must have been torture for her...hehehe

2. What was so special about that point in time that before it Ultimecia could achieve time compression but after it she couldn't?

I know that the characters in the game are fairly ignorant about how time compression works, but that's really a convenient excuse for not having to explain the primary element that drives the plot of the entire game. There should be more than just the concept of time being compressed to a single moment and ending living existence sounding "cool." The just-accept-it thing worked for FFI-V, but I thought VI and VII really stepped it when it came to explaining the "how" of their plotlines.

[Big D]

The true power that Ellone possessed would have allowed Ultimecia to achieve time compression...but why???

Was it the power itself or the point in time that mattered?

The events of the game suggest to me that it was the point in time. But it was Ellone's power that would enable Ultimecia to send her consciousness to that point in time.

Basically, it works like this: Ultimecia's time compression magic has to be used at two different points in history - her own time, and the distant past. Those two moments have to be sufficiently far apart in order for the magic to work. Using Odine's machine, she can send her mind a long way back, but it's not quite far enough. She has to go back even further into the past, and that's where Ellone comes in. Ultimecia sends her mind back and possesses a sorceress, and then Ellon sends her mind back to an earlier sorceress. Only then can Ultimecia's magic start to... work its magic.

Like you, I find it strange that time compression needs this tiny extra 'jump' in order to work. Ultimecia's apparently some centuries in the future, yet a few decades seem to make the difference between time compression working or failing. My 'theory' (and I use the term loosely) is that time compression magic needs to span a large period of tiime in order to work. The more time it encompasses, the more rapidly reality can be undone. Without a 'critical mass', it can't get started at all. I use the metaphor of demolition: one wrecking-ball impact weakens part of the structure; two impacts weaken two parts. If those two impacts are sufficiently far away from each other, it might be enough to compromise the entire structure.

[Takero]

My theory is that Ultimasia's time compression magic must work in three point during the time that's why she needs Ellone , Odin's creation will allow Ultimasia to come back in time and Ellone's power can send Ultimasia further into the past so she can use her magic and compress time.

[ragnosica]

wow, u know back in the old days they used to assemble special debate places where u could discuss books, philosophy and alike, now there are forums where u discuss game plots...interesting. I'll make a thread out of this idea, you're all invited to post...It will probably be in the General Gaming Discussion section