so you use your brakes for a second then let off and down shift.and by the way, I never said "lawls everyone MUST drive manual!" I don't care, I drove automatics for awhile until I had to learn manual.
so you use your brakes for a second then let off and down shift.
If I still lived in Colorado or had a sports car I'd say manual, but neither of those are true, so automatic.
Kaycee says (12:06 AM):
whos' obama?
Sugar, we both live in the Appalachains, though admittedly you get more snow than I do. I know what it's like to drive on steep,windy, mountain roads in both types of transmission. You can keep an automatic in second gear if you downshift at the bottom of the mountain and maintain your speed.Originally Posted by Bert
Reality is I live in the northeast and I'd much rather say "HEY CAR STAY IN 2nd GEAR ON THIS HILL!" instead of wasting my breaks and sliding and dying. Manulas aren't good just for racing a towing. There are areas like Vermont were manuals are wonderful in winter.
and to Ed's question, you have more control with a manual since you control the gears, the car can only go so fast in certain gears, so when you have a automatic it kicks it up a gear even if you don't want to. They're set toat a certain RPM I believe so you have no choice. Also manuals allow you to use less breaks making your brakes last longer. Also shifting at I think 6500 RPM gets the most horsepower out of your vehicle and so you can do that in a manual if needed where as you can't in a auto.
And really, it depends on the car and the driver. Like I said, if you have an automatic with a tach, it's really easy to determine which gear your in and to stay in that gear.
And what are you driving that you even get to 6500RPMs. Holy poop! xD My experiences with stick are obviously not in sports cars.
The rollercoaster thing was a joke. xD.
In what kind of situation do you need your RPMs to be very high? RPMs are just a measurement of how much work your engine is doing. Why do you need your engine to do so much work?
Most automatics switch to the highest running gear on straightaways, in most that's 4th gear. Rarely in my experiences on the highway MUST someone run in 5th or, if you're in a really, really nice sports car, 6th.
You're right in that you can use the clutch to cut gas to the engine, but that doesn't really help you slow down as much as some people believe. Really, that is where you save the biggest chunk of your gas; cutting it as you approach a stop.
Like I said, going uphill, downhill or around corners. You can regulate your speed and g-force in more ways than acceleration or brake in a manual.
A little neat extra in this department is that you can brake using the engine, so your brakes dont wear out quite so fast (if your bothered about that sort of thing).
Being able to go faster than someone in an automatic depends on the driver, the cars involved, the type of road, and is much more specific than an all the time occurrence. And your car gains velocity, not momentumIf you are overtaking someone you can switch your gear down and your car will gain much more momentum. You therefore avoid oncoming traffic as soon as possible. You can escape general risks quicker this way too.
Also, faulty brakes are a problem, and a very bad one if your in the middle of driving. So your driving, and your brakes dont work. In a manual you just switch to the lowest possible gear and the engine brakes for you. Of course, its got nothing on your normal brakes, but it definitely does still give you a chance at not rolling off a cliff if you have a reasonable amount of space.
Maybe theres something like this in automatics? I dont actually know..
And like Bert stated, winter is a bummer, and manuals (tend to) handle it better.
And if your brakes are so bad you're worried about them going out on you at any point because of disc wear, then you just don't know how to maintain a vehicle. (General you, not YOU you.)
I already addressed the winter thing. Good winter driving is more dependent on good driving skills and vehicles that can handle the weather, not manual vs. auto. A sucky driver in a stick is no better off than a sucky driver in a manual.
Silly.Yeah theres some friendly competition in this, thats all. Actually, I have a really underdeveloped ego and this is the only way for me to feel great.Im not even talking about driving skill, I think all of you who drive automatics are capable of driving manuals. Of course its about preference, but im still gonna try and prove that manuals are better.
Are you saying autos aren't meant to downshift, or they aren't meant to use the parking brake as an emergency brake?Yes, and it's not really good for the tranny. they aren't made to shift like that.
xD
A lot of companies are making autos whose engines switch between 4 and 6 cylinder use, depending on driving conditions. I'm pretty sure there are manuals that can do the same thing.
Word.
Likesay, I like both. Truth be told, and if I were better at it, I'd probably drive a stick, because I do like the little bit of extra control it does give the driver, and because I want a niiiice muscle car someday. Overall, I say they're about equal. Sure, it takes a little more skill to drive one, but with the amount of unskilled drivers on the roads these days, you might be wanting them to learn how to point the car the right way first, and worry about teaching them stick later on.
EDIT: I'm really not trying to be mean here, honest, I'm just curious. How many people, not just the people I quoted, but everyone who's read this, how many of you know the difference between an automatic and manual transmission? How many of you know how transmissions work?
Signature by rubah. I think.
There are certain cars where getting an automatic defeats the purpose of the car. I knew a guy in high school who drove an automatic Porsche 911. We kind of made fun of him.
Then there are full-sized sedans, SUVs and full-sized trucks which do just fine with a computer-controlled shifting system. In my Silverado 1500 I barely hit 3,000RPM doing 70MPH.
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I personally would like to learn manual someday but our vehicles lack it. In addition I don't see much need for it. I know a buddy who owns the same year Ford Explorer as I do and it is much the same except he uses a manual transmission.
Between the two of us(and he does have quite a bit of experience with manual) I get the better gas mileage despite the fact that I tend to handle heavier loads[he uses a truck for heavy loads].
The extra control would be a nice bonus at times, and it shouldn't distract enough of my attention to warrant concern.
As for RPM's my I rarely get my ford explorer even when hauling 2000 lbs of sand in it over 2500 or RPMs. Speaking of RPM's I was always curious what Automatics use to decide to shift. My explorer doesn't seem to use RPMs soley. It seems to use a mix of speed+RPM's+some third factor I have yet to find.
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STILL Updating the anime list. . . I didn't think I was that much of an anime freak! I don't even want to consider updating the manga list!
You guys just dont get it
Well, you have made a very unconvincing arguementYou guys just dont get it
There IS no convincing you people. Doesnt matter what. :rolleyes2 EoFF is home of stubbornness!Well, you have made a very unconvincing arguementYou guys just dont get it
And out of stubbornness I will quote random people and articles on the internet:
Epinions.com - Manual Or Automatic Transmission - Depends On What You Want To AchieveThe Bottom Line The choice depends on your driving habits and conditions.
There are several factors that should affect your choice of transmission.
1. Do you often drive during "rush hour"? In this case automatic will be better - your right hand will be less tired and you won’t have to use the left foot. Besides, driving in heavy traffic with a lot of high-speed operation and frequent stops will not be very good for the clutch.
2. Fuel economy: Manual gearboxes, as a rule, provide better fuel economy (about 1 MPG better when automatics), and generally have more speeds so engine more often works in a range of optimal RPMs, they weight less and have no torque converter.
3. Acceleration: Manual transmissions, when properly used, provide better acceleration. Several factors contribute to this: they usually have more speeds to choose from, there is no torque converter that “eats” some torque, the weight is less.
4. Do you like to drive? Although automatic transmissions now got very sophisticated and adapt to the one’s driving style, they still cannot predict your intentions. Plus with them you don’t feel the direct link between your right foot and the engine response – the torque converter and other “goodies” mute it.
5. Price: Usually the automatic transmission costs $700-1200 extra. Some cars have them as standard equipment though, and some offer them as a free option.
6. Reliability: The automatic transmissions have much more parts and sophisticated control mechanisms. I have had bad luck with automatics.
Newer automatic transmissions with fuzzy logic provide good shift points and reasonable fuel economy. There are also "manumatic" automatic transmissions where you can shift manually, sometimes even with buttons on the steering wheel.
Nevertheless, it is still automatic transmission where you don't feel direct feel of manual, since it has torque converter. Commercials say that they are "like" transmissions used in Formula 1 auto racing. This is a lie - real F1 transmission may currently be found only in supercars like Ferrari 360 Modena as a $10K option or European cars that are not sold in the US (Alpha Romeo).
“Manumatics” are usually automatic transmissions that allow you to select the gear yourself. Yet, majority of them still downshift when you want to pass (kick-down) and upshift before you hit the rev limiter.
The CVT (continuously variable transmissions) start to appear in even bigger cars (like new Audi A4 – in Europe now, possibly in the US – in the 2002 model), they provide better fuel economy (some of them, i.e. in Audi, don't even have torque converters!) and acceleration than even manual and also can be shifted manually, and they don't require clutches. They are not so fun to drive us real manual transmission, but are much better than “regular” hydraulic auto transmissions.
The choice depends on your driving habits and conditions.
Core Dump » Blog Archive » Manual vs. AutomaticA while back I read a couple of editorials over at The Truth About Cars regarding the “Death of the Stick Shift.” This got me quite worked up, though it took me a while to get my thoughts in order and get motivated to write about it. For reference, here are the articles themselves that spawed this dissertation of mine - including a final editorial in favor of manual transmissions:
Death to The Stick Shift
Shifting Expectations
Tripedalists of the World Unite!
So, here goes:
The manual vs. automatic debate has been going on for years, with the commonly accepted “facts” of manual transmissions giving higher gas milage and better “control.” Some people have said that driving a stick shift requires too much concentration from the driver - in other words, a stick shift is distracting you from driving. Other people say that the torque converter in an automatic “sucks” power away from the engine, giving lackluster performance.
IMHO, in case it wasn’t painfully obvious from my many other posts on the subject, the manual transmission is superior. You just can’t beat the level of control it offers.
In the above articles, it is argued that modern automatics make the manual transmission obsolete. Now, this IS true - to a certain extent. The truly modern auomatics are very good - like, say, the ones you can find on your $50,000+ luxury sedans & sports cars. Combined with sophisticated traction control, yaw sensors, and so forth, these systems can provide a supurb driving experience.
But let’s face some facts - these systems are EXPENSIVE. And your average car doesn’t have them. At least, not anything I can afford.
So, let’s get to the meat of the argument: control. Does a stick shift really give you more control?
I’d argue yes, of course. You see, I’ve driven a lot of cars in my short 9 years of driving - automatics and stick shifts alike. I learned to drive on an automatic Dodge Omni; owned an automatic K-Car, started to learn stick on a manual Dodge Neon and then a manual Chevy S-10, and finally wrapped everything up with a sport-tronic automatic Mitsubishi Outlander. Along the way I’ve driven a full-sized GMC Seirra 1500 (automatic), a fun & sporty Alpha Romeo (manual), a powerful Pontiac LeMans (automatic), a bulky Ford Explorer (automatic), an even bulkier Lincoln Town Car (automatic), a wimpy Ford Focus (automatic) and even a slightly scary Honda 700cc motorcycle (manual).
The basic premise on which I base my assertation that the manual is better is control - specifically, control of engine power delivery. With a manual, I can keep the engine in it’s “power band,” and ensure that it’s in that power band when I want it to be. For “spirited” driving, there’s no comparison. The manual lets me keep the power of the engine right where I want it, based on the conditions of the road. No matter how sophisticated the electronics, the automatic transmission will never be smarter than the human brain that’s actually driving the car.
There’s also the issue of shift speed to be considered. Every automatic I’ve driven shifts slowly from gear to gear. Even the current Keithmobile - the Outlander, which its “sport-tronic” transmission that lets me shift up & down with the push of a lever - shifts slower from gear to gear than a comparable manual. When you’re doing that “spirited” driving, that delay is definately No Fun.
In addition, there are other features of the manual that I miss to this day - the ability to rev the engine up for a lightning-quick start; the ability to break the rear wheels loose with a bit of clutch & throttle play around a sharp corner; and the ability to do engine breaking. For example, I used to be able to bring the Keithmobile-C (the S-10) to almost a complete stop - without using my brakes. Come to think of it, in the nearly 100,000 miles I put on that truck, I don’t think I ever replaced the brakes. Every time I had them checked, the people doing the checking would say something like “yeah, your brakes are fine, they look like they’re still being broken in!” Not so in the Keithmobile-D (the Outlander). It’s brakes are due for replacement next month, and I’ve put far fewer miles on it than the Keithmobile-C had.
Now, having been a courier for 2 years, I can appreciate the seductive allure of the automatic transmission to the average commuter. Goodness knows I’ve complained enough about driving in traffic with a manual. And during the time I was a courier with the Keithmobile-D, it was quite a bit nicer to not have to shift - though the constant braking was almost as annoying as the constant down-shifting. Go figure.
For the “average” driver, an automatic may be a good choice. And the automatic has its place in other circumstances as well - for example: plowing. As you’re probably aware, it’s snowed quite a bit around here lately, and I can tell you there are very few people out there doing professional snow plowing with manual transmissions. It’s just not practical - you’d burn out your clutch. The torque converter in an automatic takes the abuse of pushing tons of snow around at slow speeds much better than a manual would - mostly because of the wider gear range in an automatic. And for taxi drivers and limo drivers, there’s not even any realistic choice - it’s an automatic all the way. And big trucks, that is, big diesel trucks (and buses) need an automatic to handle the job of moving a huge mass of metal (although many of these big automatic systems are “sport-tronic” in the same way as my Outlander).
The argument of economy often enters into this debate - some say one system is more economical than the other. IMHO (again), a stick, driven properly, delivers better economy than an automatic. I point to my truck (the Keithmobile-C, the S-10) as a prime example. I got great gas milage from that thing, no doubt about it. And let’s not discount the savings from brake wear - something I didn’t have to worry about much. And a friend of mine had a Neon that was an automatic - having ridden (not driven, alas!) in it, and having driven a manual Neon, I can say the manual was far more “peppy” and it was without a doubt more fuel efficient. Of course, other people driving differently than me might find an automatic to give better economy.
The argument of safety also comes into this debate fairly often. While it’s true that driving stick requires more involvement from the driver - hell, you even have to take one hand off of the wheel to shift - I don’t think that’s a truly terrible thing. Unless you SUCK at driving stick, the shifting process is as natural and automatic as turning the wheel or using your directional signals or winshield wiper controls. It’s just not a big deal. Conversely, of course, the automatic lets the driver focus on other cars & whatnot, while keeping both hands planted firmly on the wheel. Still, I think it’s valid to say that this kind of ease of driving can, let’s say “encourage” the driver to engage in other activities not condusive to safe driving. Such as talking on a cell phone, among many others. As a courier, I had to use my cell phone from time to time, and I can tell you, it’s hard to do while driving stick in traffic or around a city. In many cases I just had to wait until I stopped to use the phone - which is arguably the right thing to do. When I had the Keithmobile-D and it’s automatic, I found it easier to use the phone (naturally), and honestly - I did tend to use it a bit more. Now, of course, it IS hard to dial a phone while driving stick, and anyone who attempts to do so is putting themselves in more danger than the auomatic driver doing the same thing, but the argument here is that a driver with an ounce of common sense will just leave the damn cell phone alone while driving stick, since it is so obviously just an accident waiting to happen. The automatic driver might be lulled into thinking the cell phone (or double mocha latte, or MP3 player, or makeup, or cheeseburger, etc) is quite safe, since they can still “drive” while doing whatever it is they are doing. Which they are clearly not. (Think about this the next time you see an accident.)
So, both systems have their place - an automatic is easier & often more economical (for the circumstances), but a manual is more controllable and certainly more desireable for the driving enthusiast. (As a side note: try rocking your car back & forth to get it un-stuck from snow with an automatic. Now, try it with a manual. You’ll appreciate the stick shift almost immediately. Now that’s control.) In the end, though, you just can’t beat a manual for driving control - and since that’s what rates highest in my book, I put a manual above an automatic. But of course anyone who has different expectations from their car may disagree - and be perfectly justified in doing so. The fact that many cars these days don’t even offer a manual transmissions speaks volumes as to what “most” people “want.”
Boys, the same arguments are spread wide
Last edited by Croyles; 06-07-2007 at 05:06 PM.
So basically: Snobby Europeans > Practical Americans?
Absolutely right Yamaneko cause everyone with an IQ over 20 is a snob
Im talking about CARS, not which continent is better. Im saying that manuals are more practical.
In Australia, the driver's seats are all right-side. If I were to go with a manual tranmission, I'd have to have my left hand on the gearstick instead of on the wheel. Now, I'm left handed and my driving position is usually:
Right arm resting on the driver's side windowsill, left hand doing most of the steering.
I'm not saying I can't steer right handed for half a second during a gear change, I'm just saying, I'd rather not.
Don't get me wrong though. I understand all the practical factors that put manuals above autos, but really, I'm just a diehard motor racing fan who believes manuals have their place on the track and automatics provide a relaxed, more comfortable drive for me.
I am *SO* glad I missed that cut-off.Absolutely right Yamaneko cause everyone with an IQ over 20 is a snob
Im talking about CARS, not which continent is better. Im saying that manuals are more practical.
Croyles: Individual Opinion's Worst Enemy.
lol! Your right, well spotted!
mo-no, move to the states?
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