i hated both movies. yes, tim burton made batman dark. yes people like that. yes it's so dark to me it's as comical as the batman show from the sixties.

as for superman, i know they felt the need to get away from the old storyline, but the division of plots seems kind of strange. where did the storyline come away from the original movies? superman 2 or 3? there was some cool stuff in there, but i don't see the need to rehash all these comics now that there are good enough special effects but no good writers.