Kenshin VS. Darth Vader

[NeoCracker]

The Jedi that died by shots were highly outnumberd. I have never seen a Jedi get shot in the face in a one on one fight.

As for the defensive stance of Kenshins, if he goes into it his sword is easily lost to the lightsaber, or he leaves himself open to many of Vaders Force powers.

There is no real way for kenshin to predict any of Vaders moves. At all. And without that he looses much of his power.

Speed won't do much for him against the powers of Jedi perdiction in battle. He needs to see only one swing of the swords, and cut it with his light saber. Thats it.

No way for kenshin to defend against a simple Force Push either. Vader has been shown to be able to use virtually every force power there is. With the Force speed he could even start to keep up with Kenshin, as for virtually every non-jedi his movements are extremely difficult to follow up on. So he is likely to be close to Kenshin's speed, if not matching it.

So to sum it up.

Kenshin
1)Ability to predict is worthless.
2)His extreme speed likely doesn't beat out Vader enough to make a difference.
3)His Defensive stance leaves him far to vulnerable to anything Vader is capable of Doing.
4)He has no defense against Vadars Force attacks.
5)His sword cannot even be blocked, so only decisive hits mean anything.
6)Since Vader is mostly machine, only critical blows are going to be effective in the slightest against him, and given his ability to predict, he can Guard himself agaisnt one who can't see his movements rather easily.

Aside from being a bit faster, Kenshins got nothing. His better sword technique doesn't mean much against the Force power possessed by Vader.

[Tavrobel]

Aside from being a bit faster

A bit faster? He's only one step behind Shikuchi, which would probably render him immune or able to resist the Force with alarming ability. But I would agree that Kenshin needs to be in Battousai form to stand a chance.

[Chemical]

Buddha kicks both their asses.

[Peegee]

Vader commits seppuku to defeat Darth Maul.

I don't think he can lose to some sharp metal wielding kid.

Vader Seppuku: http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/7...ermaulsgy4.jpg

[Tavrobel]

Buddha kicks both their asses.

You win. End of thread.

[CimminyCricket]

The Force involves powerful telekinetic attacks. Kenshin is powerful and strong-willed, but he can't fight the supernatural. Vader can disable him at a distance, while Kenshin NEEDS to be able to get close to use any of his attacks.

As Kenshin is a speed-focused fighter and due to his natural physiology, his body is generally pretty light. Vader wouldn't have any problem force-grabbing him and flinging him around like a ragdoll.

Also, I'm assuming we're speaking of Himura Kenshin as opposed to the Hitokiri Battousai. As the Hitokiri Battousai, he's able to kill, which is essentially what it would take to defeat Vader. As Himura Kenshin, he has two extra attacks that make him quite formidable, but he loses the killing instinct. You can argue back and forth as to whether or not this is a weakness, but remember that Vader is almost completely a cyborg. Incapacitation isn't going to do it.

Returning to the force powers for a bit, Vader is also able to predict the moves before Kenshin makes them. While Kenshin can do much the same with his Hiten Mitsurugi's ability to read an enemy's movements, Vader's techniques are foreign to him and his cyborg body would likely make it more difficult to read, as Hiten Mitsurugi relies on reading body language, of which Vader's would be quite diminished.

Finally, we have weaponry. One block is all it will take for Vader to completely disable Kenshin, as a lightsaber can sheer through a steel katana (or sakabatou in this case) as if it were nothing. Craftsmanship aside, Vader still has the advantage in weaponry.

Really, this is just a mismatch. Generally, pitting supernatural characters against non-supernatural characters (even someone who gets as close to the supernatural as Kenshin does) doesn't go so well for the non-supernatural character. Unless the supernatural character's abilities are completely noncombative, the ability to bend and break the laws of physics generally wins.

Recently (2-4 years ago) there was an "alien" race that invaded the New Republic's galaxy. This "alien" race brought with them a strange type of metal that was able to withstand not only the force, but also the energy put out by the lightsaber. In other words, they couldn't be thrown and their weapons couldn't be cut. Now, they had the same physical features of a human, only they were much more grotesque in that they mutilated their own bodies. So we can assume that maybe the metal used in making swords could have been similar to the type of metal that made Kenshin's sword. The race was unaffected by the force because they came from a galaxy where they didn't believe in the force. And because Kenshin isn't from the New Republic's galaxy, where we can assume the force is most predominant, that he has no idea what the force is and can therefore not believe in it. Either way, the force has been removed.

The only thing that was cyborg about Vader were his limbs. His brain was still his, besides his insanity, which means that he would still move like a human. He could still move them as though he had never lost them. Which means that even though Vader is a "cyborg", Kenshin will still have no problem reading his movements. I'm pretty sure that Vader uses that thing on his chest to breathe anyway, so a few quick shots would most like cause the death of Vader, or even loss of concentration.

As for the force grip, even if Vader somehow managed to get Kenshin to acknowledge the force, allowing for Vader's force grip to take hold, Kenshin once fought a swordsmmen who was able to create gusts of wind with his slash that worked as a ranged attack. This attack could travel through the ground as well as the air. If I remember correct, Kenshin was able to learn, if not master, this technique. If Kenshin were to use this attack on Vader, most likely to knock out the little gizmo on Vader's chest, or perhaps to split Vader's arm down the middle (an easy feat as the attack was able to pierce the ground as well as trees), buying him enough time to regain his footing, breath and coordinate a somewhat more effective counter attack.

But wait, Cim, wouldn't Vader be able to read his mind with the force and thus defend against the impending attack?! No, in Episode One, that alien merchant was able to easily defend against the force intrusion Obi-Wan's master attempted, even though he acknowledged it. Regardless of how arrogant he was, he was more than able to train his mind against such intrusions. Kenshin was even more disciplined than that alien thing. Shouldn't Kenshin be able to defend against mental intrusions such as that? It takes severe mental and physical discipline to be able to master the sword style that Kenshin used.

[Lynx]

The Jedi that died by shots were highly outnumberd. I have never seen a Jedi get shot in the face in a one on one fight.

As for the defensive stance of Kenshins, if he goes into it his sword is easily lost to the lightsaber, or he leaves himself open to many of Vaders Force powers.

There is no real way for kenshin to predict any of Vaders moves. At all. And without that he looses much of his power.

Speed won't do much for him against the powers of Jedi perdiction in battle. He needs to see only one swing of the swords, and cut it with his light saber. Thats it.

No way for kenshin to defend against a simple Force Push either. Vader has been shown to be able to use virtually every force power there is. With the Force speed he could even start to keep up with Kenshin, as for virtually every non-jedi his movements are extremely difficult to follow up on. So he is likely to be close to Kenshin's speed, if not matching it.

So to sum it up.

Kenshin
1)Ability to predict is worthless.
2)His extreme speed likely doesn't beat out Vader enough to make a difference.
3)His Defensive stance leaves him far to vulnerable to anything Vader is capable of Doing.
4)He has no defense against Vadars Force attacks.
5)His sword cannot even be blocked, so only decisive hits mean anything.
6)Since Vader is mostly machine, only critical blows are going to be effective in the slightest against him, and given his ability to predict, he can Guard himself agaisnt one who can't see his movements rather easily.

Aside from being a bit faster, Kenshins got nothing. His better sword technique doesn't mean much against the Force power possessed by Vader.

kenshins predictions would work through his defense stances.

and seeins as kenshin can launch 10 feet and draw his sword at make a crushing blow in about a second as seen in many episodes, he could more then likely make the first blow before vader even has time to grab his light saber and light it up.

kenshins defense stances woldnt necessarily allow vaders saber to hit hiw sword.

as cim said kenshins mental discipline could more then likly negate the force.

also as for decisive hits doing anything. well that is how real sword fighting is you shoudl not swing at there sword unless its intent to block. kenshin knowing he can block would use defense to predict and then switch to offensive.

as for vader being cyborg and can only hit vidal points. well if kenshin cuts off his legs vader is rather useless. remember kenshin doesnt really like to kill people.

[escobert]

these threads are as bad or worse that the blah blah blah console sucks threads.

[NeoCracker]

One, Jedi speed is inhuman. So in speed, kenshin is not far superior, not even as the Batosia.

That defensive stance makes him easy to strike with say, force strike, Force push, force Lighting, throw something at him from behind.

And Kenshin can't predict Vaders movents through facial expressions, and the way a robotic arm moves is much different, at least I'd assume, than the way a human arm moves. For one, there are now muscles contractin or resting, which is how one normally predics how one would move. How exactly can Kenshin predict the moves?

And there is no reason to believe kenshins sword is the same kind of material thats resistant to the force.

Finally, isn't that race immune to only the mental effects, and only resistant to things like Force push, Force Lighting, and such? Not Immune? Though this is the racial description given in the D20 Starwars, so It could be different.

So really, how exactly can Kenshin compete?

[daggertrepe]

Kenshin's hot-therefore he wins.

[Tavrobel]

nerd stuff

nerd stuff to the max

I do believe that you deserve a Sol rune for this.

However, as for Qui Gonn's attempted mind control, didn't the merchant say that it was his racial attributes that allowed him to not have his mind read? Even if this were true, it shows that mental effects of the Force can be resisted, and it's been previously stated that the mind control only works on the weak-willed. Notice how no Jedi tries to use it on another Jedi.

Assuming that Kenshin is not totally immune to Force effects, he's gone through worse. I would imagine that anything besides a direct cut would disable Kenshin. It took Shishio several tries, despite they all being direct hits, to even prevent him from fighting. Soon afterwards, Kenshin still got up (okay, so Saito, Aoshi, and Sano still got their asses kicked in the meantime, but Kenshin revived).

[CimminyCricket]

nerd stuff

nerd stuff to the max

I do believe that you deserve a Sol rune for this.

However, as for Qui Gonn's attempted mind control, didn't the merchant say that it was his racial attributes that allowed him to not have his mind read? Even if this were true, it shows that mental effects of the Force can be resisted, and it's been previously stated that the mind control only works on the weak-willed. Notice how no Jedi tries to use it on another Jedi.

Assuming that Kenshin is not totally immune to Force effects, he's gone through worse. I would imagine that anything besides a direct cut would disable Kenshin. It took Shishio several tries, despite they all being direct hits, to even prevent him from fighting. Soon afterwards, Kenshin still got up (okay, so Saito, Aoshi, and Sano still got their asses kicked in the meantime, but Kenshin revived).

Let me get this straight, you actually read all of what I posted? It doesn't seem as though anyone else did. Thank you, Tav, you are my only friend in this thread.

NeoCracker:

That race is was not effected by any type of the force. They were defeated when the Jedi and New Republic used their own technology, if it can even be called that seeing as their ships were organic, against them. Mika, a trained Jedi Knight, attempted to use the force push several times upon his captives, to no avail. Because they do not acknowledge the force, it doesn't exist, therefore, no form of the force has any effect on them.

Even if Kenshin's sword is not made of the same metallic material, there is no reason for him to block, there are even metals on Tatoonie that are immune to the destructive forces of a lightsaber. Kenshin, when not Batosai, is a more skilled defender than he is an offensive warrior. That doesn't mean he'll necessarily block, but dodge. Kenshin wasn't just able to read opponents due to facial expressions and muscles in arms and all that, he was able to predict due to his massive amount of battles. He became able to predict, due to the way an arm is positioned, the way it will move.

Example:

Vader wasn't known for his speed, but for his brute strength. You never saw him zoom left or right with his sword movements, that was all Luke.

Vader would bring his lightsaber above his head, which would lead Kenshin to believe that an over head strike would occur, side-stepping the attack, possibly attacking at Vader. Vader would then bring the saber back up over his shoulder to the right, Kenshin predicting two things: a diagnal attack or an attack that leads a straight line across to the left. Assuming that the attack would be as far out as was apparent in his fight against Luke, Kenshin could go in for the attack by dashing forward and landing quite a few direct hits, most likely not killing blows at this point, but as was apparent in the anime, Kenshin can be driven into Batosai "mode" by desparity. A jab attack by Vader could easily be dodge leaving an opening for Kenshin to attack the "hilt" of the lightsaber itself. Rendering Vader defenseless weapon wise.

You all assume that Kenshin would parry the blade of the lightsaber, not the "hilt".

[Lynx]

One, Jedi speed is inhuman. So in speed, kenshin is not far superior, not even as the Batosia.

That defensive stance makes him easy to strike with say, force strike, Force push, force Lighting, throw something at him from behind.

And Kenshin can't predict Vaders movents through facial expressions, and the way a robotic arm moves is much different, at least I'd assume, than the way a human arm moves. For one, there are now muscles contractin or resting, which is how one normally predics how one would move. How exactly can Kenshin predict the moves?

And there is no reason to believe kenshins sword is the same kind of material thats resistant to the force.

Finally, isn't that race immune to only the mental effects, and only resistant to things like Force push, Force Lighting, and such? Not Immune? Though this is the racial description given in the D20 Starwars, so It could be different.

So really, how exactly can Kenshin compete?

ok so he cant see muscle contractions in a swing. kenshin does often wait until a swing is almost at the contact point with him before he dodges and attacks. he wouldnt have to look for muscle contractions or facial attitude he could wait until the recovery from the swing is impossible.

now as for force push and lightning. if kenshin can burst through the flames of shishio then he could probably fight the lightning. or even disrupt the lightning with do ryu sen. causeing a boulder to hit the lightning instead of himself. now as for force push. how well would that even effect someone with the power of kenshin. probably makle him slide back a few feet. also the force push needs soime concentration. if kenshin keeps vader on his toes at all times he wont be able to use the push.

and as for how can kenshin compete? kenshins speed and skill is his keys to winning. speed and skill is what wins sword fights not how sharp the blade is or in vaders case if the blade can cut anything. its not the weapon its the weilder.

[Araciel]

Kenshin's hot-therefore he wins.

you can't smurf wit dat yo.

[NeoCracker]

Alright, so we assume force wont' work on Kenshin. However there is still the Jedi Speed. Kenshin would not be that much faster than Vader.

Aslo, you assume that Vader will let his Lightsabers hilt get hit. He is an excelent swordsman. He is not close to being an idiot.

All the examples you listed of predicting movements are common place predictions. Hell, Sano could see all that coming without a problem. I always found Kenshins prediction to be far more sophisticated than that, "Sword over head, he swinging down next".

As for the Weapon, in this case a better weapon makes a hell of a difference. Blocking isn't even an option for Kenshin. Getting Blocked isn't an option for Kenshin.

So Speed they are probably similar, Experience goes to Vader. Better weapon goes to Vader. Options go to Vader. What does Kenshin have that gives him an advantage here?

And if you want to say Kenshin is a lot faster, explain how he competes with Force Speed.

Also, force Grap can be used to fight at a distance by throwing things. Immune to the force or not, I doubt Kenshin is Immune to flying Cars.