The Deathly Hallows (Mark Spoilers!)

[ljkkjlcm9]

Foa I think it was (SPOILER)Dobby. She probably hit on him as one of those 'omg' moments and thought it was too perfect to pass up. At least, I could see myself doing that xD

(SPOILER)I actually feel it was tonks. Dobby was there to show the goblin guy, whatever his name, that harry was a different wizard so that he would help harry break into gringott's. Lupin died to walk with Harry to sacrifice himself. Tonks seemed like the most random death, but in the end I think they did that because Harry was their kids godfather, so it'd be like Harry became like Sirius was to the kid. That's how I saw it, because at one point Harry thought to himself he'd be like another Sirius for the kid, and when both Lupin and Tonks died, he really was like that.

as for why harry lived, well from what Dumbledore was saying was that part of it was because he embraced death

and to whoever asked how the killing curse backfired on Voldermort, he was using the Elder wand, the wand that Harry was the master of. Because Harry was the master of it, he could not lose a duel in which the wand was being used, so the wand could not kill harry, and backfired to kill Voldermort.

correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel that's correct

THE JACKEL

[McLovin']

Ok...that makes some sense as to why he came back...o_O

[Miriel]

I think the unpredicted death was (SPOILER)Hedwig. C'mon guys, did anyone really see that one coming? I sure didn't. Also, I think it really sucks that (SPOILER)not only were we not given any chance to grieve for Remus and Tonks, but they weren't even given on-screen deaths. They were alive, fighting, and then oh look they're lying over there dead. I thought Remus and Tonks were both lovely characters, and they deserved better than what Rowling gave them. In fact, NONE of the human deaths were given the same consideration as Dobby's death, which I think was done rather beautifully. I cried while Harry dug the grave, consumed with grief, and Luna's eulogy during his funeral. It was thoughtful and sad, and well executed. Wtf happened with everyone else? Bam bam bam, dead dead dead. And then barely a sentence or two concerning those deaths.


foa, I agree with like, 98% of what you wrote.

[Brennan]

I think the unpredicted death was (SPOILER)Hedwig. C'mon guys, did anyone really see that one coming? I sure didn't. Also, I think it really sucks that (SPOILER)not only were we not given any chance to grieve for Remus and Tonks, but they weren't even given on-screen deaths. They were alive, fighting, and then oh look they're lying over there dead. I thought Remus and Tonks were both lovely characters, and they deserved better than what Rowling gave them.


foa, I agree with like, 98% of what you wrote.

Yeah, (SPOILER)Headwig's death was really shocking.
And so was (SPOILER)Remus, Tonks, and Madeye's

[Yeargdribble]

Those that know how incredibly critical I can be of things (those from the FFXI forum mostly) may find this odd of me. I know it wasn't perfect, but I think we're being too hard on the book because we waited around 2 years for it and our expectations were running high. Everyone has guessed and re-guessed what they expected to happen. Obviously it's not going to come out great for everyone.

I can understand the criticisms, but I think the objects of them can be fairly explained. Sure she didn't go into detail about the deaths of (SPOILER)Tonks, Lupin or Fred, but war is nasty. Why do you expect them to be special simply because they are characters that are more fleshed out. A lot of people died on both sides we never heard about. It's unrealistic to think that everyone we'd grown to love was simply above death. If anything, I think it highlights the savagery and mindlessness of war. Nothing is sacred.

Perhaps we should look at the book for what it was rather than what it wasn't. It was a well thought out finale to a great series. It tied up virtually all loose ends. While being somewhat predictable, it threw in extra plot elements we didn't see coming before starting the book so that it stands on its own within the series and isn't just a quick mop up.

Sure there could've been more detail in any number of areas, but there also could've been far less. Some of us wanted to see more romance and some wanted to see more action. While action probably outweighs romance, I think they were both given in portions that would give each reader a taste of what they wanted without tainting the balance of what the books were about.

So I, my ever-critical-self, am quite satisfied.

[fire_of_avalon]

(SPOILER)The more I think about it, the more okay I'm getting. My biggest gripe is that while we understand time passes for the characters and they are allowed to heal from the deaths, we the readers don't get that kind of catharsis. At the very least, I expected some sort of memorial or speech, but there wasn't anything of the sort. The characters were taken care of, but I wasn't.

And honestly, I believe the death of Hedwig and Mad-Eye were enough to demonstrate the shock of the war. I was something like a half hour in, had to close the book and take a walk around the apartment, Mad Eye's death got me so hard. I felt like JKR cared about those deaths. I didn't feel that way about Fred, Tonks and Lupin.

And poor Tonks' mom! (Don't have my copy, can't remember her name.) Lost most of her family.

To add to my first post, I thought the entire Shell Cottage chapter was very well done, and I really loved Aberforth.

[Miriel]

Those that know how incredibly critical I can be of things (those from the FFXI forum mostly) may find this odd of me. I know it wasn't perfect, but I think we're being too hard on the book because we waited around 2 years for it and our expectations were running high. Everyone has guessed and re-guessed what they expected to happen. Obviously it's not going to come out great for everyone.

I can understand the criticisms, but I think the objects of them can be fairly explained. Sure she didn't go into detail about the deaths of (SPOILER)Tonks, Lupin or Fred, but war is nasty. Why do you expect them to be special simply because they are characters that are more fleshed out. A lot of people died on both sides we never heard about. It's unrealistic to think that everyone we'd grown to love was simply above death. If anything, I think it highlights the savagery and mindlessness of war. Nothing is sacred.

Perhaps we should look at the book for what it was rather than what it wasn't. It was a well thought out finale to a great series. It tied up virtually all loose ends. While being somewhat predictable, it threw in extra plot elements we didn't see coming before starting the book so that it stands on its own within the series and isn't just a quick mop up.

Sure there could've been more detail in any number of areas, but there also could've been far less. Some of us wanted to see more romance and some wanted to see more action. While action probably outweighs romance, I think they were both given in portions that would give each reader a taste of what they wanted without tainting the balance of what the books were about.

So I, my ever-critical-self, am quite satisfied.

There's nothing wrong with being critical of a book, especially if there's a lot to be critical about.

And you're right about war being nasty and all that, but once the war was over, why not end things properly? Give a little insight into how the characters and the wizarding world as a whole dealt with the aftermath of everything. I don't think that all the loose ends were tied up properly, and given that this was the END of the series, and there would be no follow up, I think Rowling could have done a much better job of finishing up the series.

I personally (SPOILER)can't imagine George living his life properly after losing Fred. Maybe that's why Rowling didn't mention anything more about what happened with the loss of Fred, since I'm sure it would have been immeasurable how much pain George went through afterwards. They're twins! Omg, you can't split up twins. And that kind of grief probably wouldn't have tied in well with her uber sugar sweet ending. Oh man, Fred dying seriously depresses me.

Edit: I'd also like to mention that I greatly disliked Order of the Pheonix when I first read it cause there was just TOO MUCH whiny Harry in it. With more readings and a bit of skimming over the parts I don't like, the book has really grown on me and there are bits of it that I really really love. Hopefully with a couple more readings of Deathly Hallows, the same thing will happen. It'll grow on me. And I'll just imagine in my head a better epilogue for the series.

[Madame Adequate]

I liked the book about as much as I liked the other ones: which is to say, an inexplicable amount. I can't pin down why the books are compelling, or what I really like about them (Have some theories, but those are for another time), but I do like them a fair amount.

(SPOILER)I think the main problem I had here was the complete break with the previous six books. Those had been matters of increasing training and importance for Harry, but they all took place at Hogwarts, a familiar setting I had grown to be quite fond of. Whilst the return to Hogwarts at the end of this was rewarding indeed, the absense of even a parallel for the characters while they were on the run was... jarring, I suppose. That said, it made sense and it fit. I'm not sure whether this complaint is legit, or just an unreasonable attachment to something which wouldn't have made much sense here.

I think the unpredicted death was (SPOILER)Hedwig. C'mon guys, did anyone really see that one coming? I sure didn't. Also, I think it really sucks that (SPOILER)not only were we not given any chance to grieve for Remus and Tonks, but they weren't even given on-screen deaths. They were alive, fighting, and then oh look they're lying over there dead. I thought Remus and Tonks were both lovely characters, and they deserved better than what Rowling gave them. In fact, NONE of the human deaths were given the same consideration as Dobby's death, which I think was done rather beautifully. I cried while Harry dug the grave, consumed with grief, and Luna's eulogy during his funeral. It was thoughtful and sad, and well executed. Wtf happened with everyone else? Bam bam bam, dead dead dead. And then barely a sentence or two concerning those deaths.


foa, I agree with like, 98% of what you wrote.

(SPOILER)I can see what you're saying, but... I really, really loved the way Rowling did for Remus and Tonks, and that's saying it despite the fact that they were probably my two fave characters. I didn't blink at Hedwig or Mad-Eye dying. I barely noticed when Fred died. I didn't even care much when Snape died, and I am so totally gay and Slytherin for Snape.

The fact that they deserved better is the very point. They were brave, good people, with a newborn child, and they fought for a better world for that child. And then they died, ignominiously and offscreen, and got the briefest of mentions. I mentioned other people above; I did care when Tonks and Lupin died, and it hit me like a slug from a magnum exactly because it was so.. inglorious. And yet in that ignominy, it was beautiful and noble and they didn't need to die in some heroic chapter-long showdown for their deaths to be noble and heroic and painful. I am reminded of a quote from Babylon 5 (Paraphrased from the Bible): "No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother. Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame. For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see."

I do, however, think there was far too little time overall spent on dealing with the dead and the consequences of who died. I mean, I totally forgot Hedwig had died within a couple of chapters, except for like the single comment later on where someone makes a faux pas about her.

[Psychotic]

(SPOILER)And poor Tonks' mom! (Don't have my copy, can't remember her name.) Lost most of her family.

(SPOILER)Andromeda. Yeah, she lost her husband, sister (Bellatrix), daughter and son-in-law. But at least her other sister's family (Malfoys) and her grandson survived, eh?

Yes, I have been looking at the Most Noble and Ancient House of Black family tree on wikipedia!

[Nominus Experse]

I suppose one can't really be too critical of a book (in terms of writing prowess and the like) that was aimed to be something of a children's story, but meh...

It seemed so much better when the first four had come out. Perhaps with age, my interest - and perhaps leniency of forced plot devices - dwindled.

I wish that the battles were more unique though. They seemed to follow a pattern, and it became a little bland after a bit.



I'll now read Lord of the Rings and feel oh so much better.

[ljkkjlcm9]

I'll now read Lord of the Rings and feel oh so much better.

this right here is a point I'd like to emphasize

I was talking to my brother, who is a writer, about the books. And he was talking about all these things to make the story deeper and crap and I was like, bro, that's not the point of these books. They're purely simple reading entertainment. Nothing too complex to figure out. Anyone who tries to put this on the level of brilliance as Lord of the Rings, or book series like Ender's Game, is just kidding themself. Harry Potter is a good story in it's own right, but you have to remember what it is.

It's like people that go to see, Live Free or Die Hard for a great storyline. No, you go to see crap get blown up and all sorts of crap like that. You go see 300 for brutal killing and war scenes. Movies and books have purposes. Trying to say Harry Potter is suppose to be as complex a novel as things like Lord of the Rings or other great works of writing, is honestly, giving it too much credit.

That's just my 2 cents

THE JACKEL

[Nominus Experse]

Did you even read what I wrote above that statement?

[Miriel]

I can't imagine how Deathly Hallows can in any way be considered a kid's book.

[Nominus Experse]

It did seem like it was rather... ambivalent. It felt like it couldn't decide who or what it wished to appeal to.

Little kids likely won't enjoy it, and teenagers will wonder at certain points, and then there's us adults, who, well, can think or want anything I suppose.

[ljkkjlcm9]

Did you even read what I wrote above that statement?

yes and I was agreeing with you....

THE JACKEL