How much did Final Fantasy VII revolutionise the series?

[Goldenboko]

1. There was no N64 demo.

YouTube - Final Fantasy Tech Demo N64

You were saying?

2. So, the Playstation takes the credit for FFVII's graphics? FF VII had NOTHING to do with how it look, it was all the system, hm? Do you have any idea how a game is made? If what you are saying is true, then ALL Playstation games would look the same. And they dont. Its the first 3D FF. Get used to it.

Again you disregard my analogy. The PS1 gave FFVII the capability to make advanced 3D graphics. Besides the 1st 3D FF is hardly "revolutionary". 3D was not some crazy far out idea. I can go all the way back to a game called Sonic 3D Blast on the Sega Genesis to find 3D games. Being the first at something isn't always revolutionary, lots of times its not even good. Look at Sonic's popularity, its 3D games have NEVER been as successful as its 2D games, nor has they're jump to 3D been conisdered revolutionary.

3. Back to the moon thing. It was revolutionary. We HAVE sent more then just " a few" men into space since then: As of June 13, 2007, a total of 460 humans from 39 countries have gone into space according to the FAI guideline, while 466 people qualify under the U.S. definition. Of those totals, 456 people have reached Earth orbit or beyond and 24 people have traveled beyond Low Earth Orbit. Space travelers have spent over 30,000 person-days (or a cumulative total of over 82 years) in space, including over 100 person-days of spacewalks.

4. The benefit of landing on the moon was so we could explore and see what the moons surface is like, and whether or not it was inhabitable for humans.

Again, please read my argument before trying to refute it. I said getting to the moon wasn't the actually revolutionary part, NASA showing its capabilities was, which is much like how FFVII isn't the actual revolutionary part, PS1's capabilities are. But really I'm done with this moonman argument because it has very little to do with the subject, it was more or less you not reading my analogy.

5. None of that changes the fact that FF VII is THE FIRST 3D FF IN THE SERIES. NOTHING YOU CAN SAY WILL CHANGE THAT.

I haven't tried to change that. That was NEVER my side of the argument. My argument has been testing the revolutionary aspect of it being in 3D, and you've done very little to convince me that it is revolutionary. 3D had been done before, and 3D is not always success.

I think what my man grim is trying to say is that FFVII set the trend for the following FF's. By no means was it 'expected' to go 3d as a 'natural progression', DQ (which birthed FF) only went 3d 2 years ago, and there are countless rpgs during and after VII's time that are 2d.

That doesn't seem like what he's saying, but at the same time, setting a trend is hardly revolutionary. FFIV set a trend for storytelling, FFI started a trend for gameplay. They've all started trends, MORE is needed for it to be revolutionary.

A final piece of my argument. You defined revolutionary as a sudden drastic change. 3D wasn't a sudden drastic change in the gaming world, many other games had 3D graphics before, so it wasn't very sudden or drastic at all.

[daggertrepe]

1. There was no N64 demo. FF VII was released on Playstation only. And PC later on. Thats it. So yeah, its the first 3D FF.

2. So, the Playstation takes the credit for FFVII's graphics? FF VII had NOTHING to do with how it look, it was all the system, hm? Do you have any idea how a game is made? If what you are saying is true, then ALL Playstation games would look the same. And they dont. Its the first 3D FF. Get used to it.

3. Back to the moon thing. It was revolutionary. We HAVE sent more then just " a few" men into space since then: As of June 13, 2007, a total of 460 humans from 39 countries have gone into space according to the FAI guideline, while 466 people qualify under the U.S. definition. Of those totals, 456 people have reached Earth orbit or beyond and 24 people have traveled beyond Low Earth Orbit. Space travelers have spent over 30,000 person-days (or a cumulative total of over 82 years) in space, including over 100 person-days of spacewalks.

4. The benefit of landing on the moon was so we could explore and see what the moons surface is like, and whether or not it was inhabitable for humans.

5. None of that changes the fact that FF VII is THE FIRST 3D FF IN THE SERIES. NOTHING YOU CAN SAY WILL CHANGE THAT.

I'll go on and on and on, until this thing is closed, just like the Aeris/Aerith argument.

6. NEXT!

Dude. What does the moon have to do with FFVII? NO CORRELATION.

And also, Final Fantasy VII was NOT the first 3-D game ever, correct? Therefore, even if it is the first for Final Fantasy VII, that doesn't make it revolutionary.

The only thing that makes this game revolutionary is how many people raved about it and it boosted the series. It is still my favorite Final Fantasy game because of the story.

[grim07]

Wow, you guys keep thinking Im saying that FF VII revolutionized RPG's. I know it wasnt the first 3D game. Besided, that was a tech demo, much like the PS3 tech demo, and it showed FFVI characters, it had nothing to do with FFVII, and you couldnt even play it.

I'll repeat myself for the upteenth time.

FINAL FANTASY VII WAS THE FIRST 3D FINAL FANTASY GAME. THAT IS NEW AND REVOLUTIONARY FOR THE FINAL FANTASY SERIES. IT DOESNT MATTER IF GAMES WERE EXPECTED TO GO THAT ROUTE, IT WAS STILL THE FIRST IN THE FINAL FANTASY SERIES.

FINAL FANTASY VII REVOLUTIONIZED FINAL FANTASY. NOT VIDEO GAMES.

Do you dumbsmurfs honestly understand what Im saying now?

I have never had to deal with a more hardheaded stubborn crowd. Final Fantasy VII being the first FINAL FANTASY that is 3D and the first FINAL FANTASY on CD, makes it revolutionary for the FINAL FANTASY SERIES.

:rolleyes2

[Goldenboko]

No it doesn't. 3D isn't that revolutionary. Its not a huge drastic change in the way games are played. You've yet to tell me anything that makes me think it is.

[daggertrepe]

Wow, you guys keep thinking Im saying that FF VII revolutionized RPG's. I know it wasnt the first 3D game. Besided, that was a tech demo, much like the PS3 tech demo, and it showed FFVI characters, it had nothing to do with FFVII, and you couldnt even play it.

I'll repeat myself for the upteenth time.

FINAL FANTASY VII WAS THE FIRST 3D FINAL FANTASY GAME. THAT IS NEW AND REVOLUTIONARY FOR THE FINAL FANTASY SERIES. IT DOESNT MATTER IF GAMES WERE EXPECTED TO GO THAT ROUTE, IT WAS STILL THE FIRST IN THE FINAL FANTASY SERIES.

FINAL FANTASY VII REVOLUTIONIZED FINAL FANTASY. NOT VIDEO GAMES.

Do you dumbsmurfs honestly understand what Im saying now?

I have never had to deal with a more hardheaded stubborn crowd. Final Fantasy VII being the first FINAL FANTASY that is 3D and the first FINAL FANTASY on CD, makes it revolutionary for the FINAL FANTASY SERIES.

:rolleyes2

How are we dumbsmurfs? You're the one who keeps screaming your lungs out to prove a point that can't be proven because it's all a matter of opinion.

If someone doesn't want to believe that Final Fantasy VII is revolutionary, they WON'T. If someone wants to believe VIII is, then they will.

[grim07]

revolutionary - Definitions from Dictionary.com

Your telling me that FF VII's change to 3D graphics was NOT a sudden, COMPLETE, or MARKED change in the FF series? Is that what your telling me? I dont give two flying smurfs if thats where games were heading. Im not talking about video games. Im talking about the FINAL FANTASY SERIES. What game, from I-VI, looks 3D to you. Honestly.

Are all of you this smurfin stupid? I mean...is it THAT hard to get it through your head? Just admit it! Or get a mod to close this so I dont have to keep repeating myself.

You keep saying "Oh, its the playstation that gave FF VII its graphics." And I say "So? I dont give a WHAT gave it its graphics, it STILL HAD THE GRAPHICS. No other FF before it had them. The rest of FF VII'S revolutionary capability is all a matter of opinion from storyline to characters and whatnot, but the biggest, drastic CHANGE (see deff. of revolutionary) was the graphics of FFVII. Thats it. No where in that deff. does it say "Sudden, Complete, or Marked change, unless it was expected to go that route" it doesnt say that. It says "Sudden complete or marked change." Nothing about NEW change. SUDDEN COMPLETE OR MARKED. Being the first 3D FF makes that a COMPLETE MARKED AND SUDDEN CHANGE FOR THE FF SERIES.

We can keep goin all day. I provided the evidence and the proof, and its NOT opinionated, its RIGHT there in your smurfin face when you turn the game on. Play FF I-VI, then play VII. TELL ME that VII looks like all of them. Go ahead. tell me. CAUSE YOU CANT. ITS IRREFUTABLE FACT. EVIDENCE. PROOF. RIGHT IN YOUR FACE.

NEXT.

[Galvatron]

Wow, you guys keep thinking Im saying that FF VII revolutionized RPG's. I know it wasnt the first 3D game. Besided, that was a tech demo, much like the PS3 tech demo, and it showed FFVI characters, it had nothing to do with FFVII, and you couldnt even play it.

I'll repeat myself for the upteenth time.

FINAL FANTASY VII WAS THE FIRST 3D FINAL FANTASY GAME. THAT IS NEW AND REVOLUTIONARY FOR THE FINAL FANTASY SERIES. IT DOESNT MATTER IF GAMES WERE EXPECTED TO GO THAT ROUTE, IT WAS STILL THE FIRST IN THE FINAL FANTASY SERIES.

FINAL FANTASY VII REVOLUTIONIZED FINAL FANTASY. NOT VIDEO GAMES.

Do you dumbsmurfs honestly understand what Im saying now?

I have never had to deal with a more hardheaded stubborn crowd. Final Fantasy VII being the first FINAL FANTASY that is 3D and the first FINAL FANTASY on CD, makes it revolutionary for the FINAL FANTASY SERIES.

:rolleyes2

WRONG, the SGI demo clearly shows that the choices in the game are being made via mouse movement. So FFVII was NOT the first FF game to be in a 3D environment. The SGI demo being made showed players that the game was headed towards 3D, so the 3D part of what turned out to be FFVII was not unexpected nor revolutionary.


Also the fact that it was on CD is not revolutionary, a CD is a storage device and that's all.

[daggertrepe]

1. YOU need to calm down, buddy. The graphics to Final Fantasy was not even revolutionary to the series because it was not the first 3-D game. You say it's revolutionary to Final Fantasy and only Final Fantasy. That's not the case. If it was only revolutionary to Final Fantasy, then it can't be considered revolutionary at all.

radically new or innovative; outside or beyond established procedure, principles-THAT is revolutionary. Was the whole world swooning over FFVII graphics? Hardly!

I'm going to get a mod to close this thread so that you can stop babbling.

[Goldenboko]

revolutionary - Definitions from Dictionary.com

Your telling me that FF VII's change to 3D graphics was NOT a sudden, COMPLETE, or MARKED change in the FF series? Is that what your telling me? I dont give two flying smurfs if thats where games were heading. Im not talking about video games. Im talking about the FINAL FANTASY SERIES. What game, from I-VI, looks 3D to you. Honestly.

Are all of you this smurfin stupid? I mean...is it THAT hard to get it through your head? Just admit it! Or get a mod to close this so I dont have to keep repeating myself.

You keep saying "Oh, its the playstation that gave FF VII its graphics." And I say "So? I dont give a WHAT gave it its graphics, it STILL HAD THE GRAPHICS. No other FF before it had them. The rest of FF VII'S revolutionary capability is all a matter of opinion from storyline to characters and whatnot, but the biggest, drastic CHANGE (see deff. of revolutionary) was the graphics of FFVII. Thats it. No where in that deff. does it say "Sudden, Complete, or Marked change, unless it was expected to go that route" it doesnt say that. It says "Sudden complete or marked change." Nothing about NEW change. SUDDEN COMPLETE OR MARKED. Being the first 3D FF makes that a COMPLETE MARKED AND SUDDEN CHANGE FOR THE FF SERIES.

We can keep goin all day. I provided the evidence and the proof, and its NOT opinionated, its RIGHT there in your smurfin face when you turn the game on. Play FF I-VI, then play VII. TELL ME that VII looks like all of them. Go ahead. tell me. CAUSE YOU CANT. ITS IRREFUTABLE FACT. EVIDENCE. PROOF. RIGHT IN YOUR FACE.

NEXT.

FFVI's mode 7 (I believe thats what its called), was a beginning of 3D and there was that demo shown before showing it was going to go into a 3D change, so its not a "sudden" change. Also change is not always revolutionary. As for complete, its not complete Mode 7 was the beginning of 3D.

Also, there is no way you could just disregard what everything else is doing when your talking about revolutionary. The Atom bomb was a revolutionary weapon when the US first made it, but it wouldn't be revolutionary anymore if a different country made it.

If you say the switch to 3D was revolutionary just because it was change, then you'd have to agree that FFIV was revolutionary because it changed the way Final Fantasy told their storyline, and because of it introducing the ATB system.

[Galvatron]

Just so you know, it's Mode 7, and it started in IV.

[Goldenboko]

Just so you know, it's Mode 7, and it started in IV.

I couldn't remember if it was 7 or 8 thanks! I said FFVI, because VI took it to a higher level with actual up and down movement.

[Bolivar]

3D wasn't a sudden drastic change in the gaming world, many other games had 3D graphics before

of course not, but this thread is about the series. even though you're still wrong in that there were no graphics like VII's in the gaming world at the time.

Except for the fact that there was a SGI demo years before FFVII was released. Can you honestly say that you didn't expect FF to go 3D? Note that Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are indeed two separate franchises.

the demo is irrelevant to the topic of this thread. 3d models over pre-rendered backgrounds tilted at any given angle is a drastic change from the previous games which was continued even to X. It revolutionized the series.

[Galvatron]

the demo is irrelevant to the topic of this thread. 3d models over pre-rendered backgrounds tilted at any given angle is a drastic change from the previous games which was continued even to X. It revolutionized the series.

The demo is relevant, you said that FF going 3D was not expected and was drastic, the demo showed that the series was OBVIOUSLY going 3D, so FF7 should have not been a surprise.

[grim07]

you know what, i give up. no amount of reasoning will tell you guys otherwise. you can all live in your fantasy world where video game series becoming 3D for the first time isnt revolutionary, what the smurf ever.

im leaving. and Im not coming back. your all a bunch of ignorant smurfs who cant understand one simple concept, and im tired of explaining it to you. you can walk around on the street and talk to fellow ff fans and try to tell them that vii wasnt revolutionary. that it was the same as all the other ff's. the nothing changed. see how much you get laughed at.

bye smurfers. have a nice life.

[Goldenboko]

All I can say is... wow. Take things a bit seriously? You've explained nothing to us, and have only restated the same thing over and over again. Now perhaps you shouldn't get so worked up when someone has a different opinion then you.