The morality of XII is flawed - Spoilers - my rant

[Renmiri]

I think I finally figured out what puts me off about the XII story. And I don't think I'm the only one. I see a lot of people playing the game excited then having their enthusiasm deflated around the time they get to Mosphoran Highwaste.

The Highwaste mission is right after what was unforgivable to me, ruining all claims of "realism" of the story: Attack on a refugee camp (Mt. Bur Omisace) and murder of a religious figure treated as "business as usual" not only by the bad guys but by our own party!!!. Sure X had the destruction of Kilika but at least there's a tiny scene / plot where Wakka and the others are helping reconstruct the village and Yuna is bringing comfort to the dead. In XII it's like "oh, Anastasis and the refugees died to buy me time to get the sword ? Great job, see ya later suckers!"

I don't want to spoil it but there is only one single scene where someone from the outside tries to help the survivors, we actually only see a single Viera worried about them on the Fafnir hunt.

In real life, even one as smurfed up as ours, the bombing of a refugee camp and the murder of someone as high as Anastasis (the pope ?) would have been a big scandal and there surely would be people helping out. Neither one of our 3 "good royals" cared enough to do so. The game ends and there still no mention of Rozarria, Archades or Dalmasca helping the survivors.

And Anastasis isn't the only one that gives his life to help our party and gets a "see ya later" for his troubled community in return (SPOILER)Reddas dies and no one in our party goes to help his friends keep Balfonheim port as he had it, which means it will probably going to fall in the hands of Reddas haters

All in all, it is full of examples of people giving their blood, sweat and tears to the royals in the hope that the prince or princess might be good people and rule wisely. A very servile / peasant POV the I hate. Serfdom has already caused enough trouble and injustice in real life.

The morality of XII is seriously flawed IMHO, which wasn't the case in previous FFs.

[Formalhaut]

Agree, They are saving Dalmasca they say but whilst oing that they are leaving lots of people left to die.

Yeah, thats SAVING now is it.


I got spoiled! Oh dont worry Renmiri, you wont get told off by me..

[f f freak]

I haven't got that far in the game but I'm up to Mosphoran but I think you have to understand that maybe 1000 lives is better than the amount of lives that could have been taken. The party didn't have time to grieve. If they had of stayed around then chances are a whole lot more lives would have been taken.

[Renmiri]

That's understandable but afterwards, when they aren't in a hurry, there is no effort whatsoever, not even a token scene on the final credits. And Anastasis was not the only one.

Reddas and the twin brothers are perhaps the only moral characters in the game.

[Hazzard]

I can't be bothered to argue with Ren's points, but The 'Wolf' will certainly challenge ya'!

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

One could argue that there was not much the royal houses can do.

Al-Cid? If Rozarria had tried to help them, then the Archadian empire would have used that as an excuse to attack them, saying that they were planning an assault.

Larsa? It was his own country that attacked. If he petitioned to help the refugees which they had cause the harm to, it would mean going against Vayne. Also, would the refugees even want help from Archades after what they did?

Ashe? She is queen in exile, so all she could do is move on with her goal. Surely they could have helped out after she returned from the Shrine, which would have been the right thing. Then again she is only a young ruler who's kingdom was taken from her and she seems to be a stubborn one, so most likely she would continue to move on with her quest. I will agree that her and co. should have helped at the time, with something but there was not much they could do either.

[Bolivar]

I will agree that her and co. should have helped at the time, with something but there was not much they could do either.

I kinda agree with that. It was a tragedy, but that place was already a mess to begin with, a few more dead bodies really didn't make a difference, these people were already down on their luck from the start.

But I gotta agree, in past games there would have been at least one character who would have tried to help these people and rebuild. In VI, you have one character so moved by the destruction that she gives up the fight to care for others. X has the team help Kilika as you said Ren.

Ashe seemed cold and selfish throughout the entire game, so the fact that they kept it moving doesn't surprise me. I think that's the point of the developers - in an interview one said that the playable characters aren't necessarily good and the antagonists aren't necessarily evil.

[Vivisteiner]

What about Vossler as well?

Ashe doesnt even mention him after he dies. Despite all the time he helped her.



Im waiting for the wolf's answer.

[Renmiri]

I will agree that her and co. should have helped at the time, with something but there was not much they could do either.

I kinda agree with that. It was a tragedy, but that place was already a mess to begin with, a few more dead bodies really didn't make a difference

Just talk to the NPC before and after the attack. Before they are all hopeful for a new chance, after is "mommy, mommy, wake up, talk to me!!"

The NPC dialogue goes to great lengths to show their ghastly fate then poof! no one cares. Not even a token end credits scene about it. Same for the intrigue at Balfonheim which will probably turn out bad since (SPOILER)Reddas is gone. All that the 3 royals seem to care is their post as rulers. You can even make the case that Vaynes' aim was much nobler (though his means sucked).

[Vivisteiner]

But why do the party have to be good?


There are subtle references that show that they may not be good. Eg, notice how the airships of the Archadians are called Shiva, Ifrit, Bahamut etc. All generally 'good' summons that help the party. Whereas the resistance has an airship called 'Garland'. Who is evil in FFI and FFIX. There could be something in it - that the resistance can also be seen as 'bad'.


Heh, I just thought of that arguments now, so Im not sure if it stands up.

Certainly Ashe seems pretty selfish at times.

[PeneloRatsbane]

when Vossler died i did find myself disliking Ashe, i think it was meant to show that she needed the journey and the adventure to grow into a suitable queen, so she could learn not to be such a frosty cow, she wasn't ready yet. But by the end she's learnt to care for people again and was ready to take her thrown

[No.78]

Didn't you say something about buying time? Why would you stop and grieve if all that time bought was just gonna be wasted?
Not everyone is as emotional as that "Oh crap, they all died, lets mourn them for ages, that's productive" They didn't have time for that. Besides, they probably did mourn it, FFXII isn't exactly famous for it's indepth storyline and character development, all that stuff probably did happen we just didn't see it.

EDIT: Besides, most of the party is British, it's the Americans that are emotional Vaan and Penelo were outnumbered.

[Bolivar]

Eg, notice how the airships of the Archadians are called Shiva, Ifrit, Bahamut etc. All generally 'good' summons that help the party. Whereas the resistance has an airship called 'Garland'.

YES. Matter of fact, it's the FLAGSHIP of the resistance that's called "Garland" who's probably most representative character in Final Fantasy of darkness. good insight, that's 100% true, and if anything, this game is known for its effort put into the subtleties.

really the only person on the team with noble intentions is Basch, everyone else is motivated by selfish reasons.

[PeneloRatsbane]

i say if u want morals go to church.
what could Vaan and Penelo really do?
Ashe has issues, Basch is just one man
and Fran and Balthier are hired help,
But i'm sure Ashe will sort things out when she's queen. She should marry al cid to prevent trouble between Rozarria and Dalmasca and Larsa is a trustworthy leader anyway. they can start fixing things

[10-Breaker]

Eg, notice how the airships of the Archadians are called Shiva, Ifrit, Bahamut etc. All generally 'good' summons that help the party. Whereas the resistance has an airship called 'Garland'.

YES. Matter of fact, it's the FLAGSHIP of the resistance that's called "Garland" who's probably most representative character in Final Fantasy of darkness. good insight, that's 100% true, and if anything, this game is known for its effort put into the subtleties.

They are just ships! Ships are to be controlled. The one who controls decides are the they bad or good. No matter what their names are they are just ships. Summons too can be used to good or bad. They are just loyal servants of their masters.
Garland isn't a summon, but it's just a name for a ship this time.

EDIT: SqEn is getting out of ideas since so much names from previous games.