Most unreasonably disliked FF title! Now with 33% more fan bias!

[,,,]

Um, I did acknowledge that... Your sarcasm is amusing but it seems that you don't have much to say about what I actually discussed. Do you feel the "love triangle" does more than scratch the surface, or did your imagination compensate for the emptiness of the thing? I wasn't getting defensive, but it's hard to measure connotation through type. I forgive you

And WK, are you aware you wrote over 1000 words? To me, it's the classic argument you give everytime a conflict of "generation" comes up:

You heavily scrutinize every individual aspect of the newer games and characters while generalizing, overexagerating, and creating synthetic meaning in the older ones, all the while insisting that you do not care either way.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with "daddy hit me when i was little" stories or "bull backstories". I'm also curious as to what you're trying to get at with Barret. Look at it this way:

Barret is just as much the stereotypical anti-establishment "black guy" as Kain is the stereotypical jelous best-friend. Except Barret's whole hometown was murdered at the hands of the forward march of capitalism. What's Kain's reason? Oh yeah, there is none...

It's hard for me to take the rest of your post serious, especially the end (Barret's discussion of Midgar's situation). It only re-confirms that you indeed missed alot from the games that came out on Sony consoles. For the sake of ",,," not calling this baseless, I will say that 1) It showed that what Japan and America have termed "progress" is not always best for everyone and 2) It is later revealed that it is only one perspective, as constantly throughout the game the player is also hit with reasons on why Shinra is good. And on the 2nd disc, Barret realizes that both sides indeed have their merit, and comes to realize that it's not a clear-cut issue. So if you could explain to me how this development falls under "stereotypical black guy!" and everything else you completely ignore and marginalize, maybe I could start taking you more seriously.

Wow, strike two for you on reading what I said. Actually, I’m not sure exactly what’s going on here. You either didn’t read much of what I said, or you were in such a hurry to “school” someone who was disagreeing with you that you sacrificed small details like “comprehension,” or you intentionally are taking things I say out of context. God, where do I even start? I'll try to do it sequentially.

Probably not, but if I had to guess, I would say enough to write two responses in which you attempt in the latter to regurgitate everything I say.

I was referring not to the entire post, I was referring to if I were (and I doubt I am) wrong about you liking the newer games more than the older ones. A point I mentioned once, just then.

Um, I did acknowledge that... Your sarcasm is amusing but it seems that you don't have much to say about what I actually discussed. Do you feel the "love triangle" does more than scratch the surface, or did your imagination compensate for the emptiness of the thing? I wasn't getting defensive, but it's hard to measure connotation through type. I forgive you

another F for comprehension. You're forgetting what we were actually talking about. The issue wasn't how deep they scratched the surface of the love triangle, the issue was is Kain a strong character. I'll go ahead and answer you anyway, since you so impolitely asked....

I think they did a great job with the love triangle as a component to the story. Kain loves Rosa who loves his best friend, Cecil. This causes rivalry between them as well as the darkness in Kain that allows him to be controlled. The "darkness" and overcoming it is the main part of the story, not the love triangle. Kain regains consciousness while controlled but still fights with Cecil because he thinks he can show Rosa that he's the better man. And in the end, he misses the wedding of his best friend because, even though the last boss has been defeated, the real "evil" is not gone from the world as it exists in everyone, and he sets out to conquer his demons as the woman he loves marries his best friend. By the way, I mentioned this in my first post, thanks for noticing. This story was well done as it was all to serve the main story. Any deeper would have detracted from the real point of the game.

Now back to the actual issue you were supposed to be adressing, Kain's humanity. I would say that yes this makes Kain VERY human, not just "barely" human. It makes me feel like Kain as a character has thoughts and feeling and inner struggles like you and I. He works just as well as some latter day character. I'm not saying he's better than vincent or barret, but he's no less human.

Also, I assumed you were getting defensive not by your tone but by the way you opted not to discuss or debate civilly, but instead decided to address me in a condescending manner. I know I'm WAY too old to be arguing with someone on a message board, but we all have our foxholes on what offends us and what really offends us, and you happened to hit mine. As much as I know I should be the mature person and ignore you, I can't let it go when you try to talk down to me. And don't try to pretend that wasn't your intention,

"If you paid attention to my post (rather than skimming through it for things to disagree with) you would notice I used the word "barely."

is a pretty damn condescending way to address someone. especially since I'm not guilty of any of which you accused me of and frankly I don't see how you could've gotten that impression had you yourself not been in such a hurry to show me who has the bigger e-penis. So yes I responded immaturely, but that's karma for ya. Which segues into the last thing,

For the sake of ",,," not calling this baseless, blah blah blah

Again, a more careful reading of my post and you'll notice the only thing I called baseless was your accusation that I did, well, exactly what you did and just wanted to attack without reading your post. since you were completely wrong and had nothing to base that on, I'd say the word "baseless" is pretty accurate. As for your analysis of barrett I could care less since I never brought up barrett anyway.

Now if you'd like to talk about FFIV and Kain in a more civil manner that's great, but you're not going to act like a dick anymore. I'm not going to use this space to boast about my intelligence, but I will say I'm pretty freaking far from being stupid and I will not put up with being talked down to. Put the e-penis away, cause seriously, no one wants to look at that thing.